Misleading title MISS !

[Robert333]

Hello,

I understand that a Thai lady is legally entitled to put onto her Thai Identity Card the title either: "Miss" or "Mrs" (I have no information about whether she can use "Ms"),

and that she can have these titles put on to her ID card in either Thai or in English.

(The title appears in the ID card "name" section.)

She can use the title "MISS", even though she has registered her marriage.

Yes, I am aware that in Thailand couples can have an informal marriage which is not registered, and that couples are not obliged to register their marriage.

Here I am referring to the circumstance where a Thai lady has registered her marriage but nevertheless it is legal for her ID card to continue (even after a renewal), to have the title "MISS", if she so chooses.

Since the title "MISS" means a single woman

(in other words it means: "I am NOT married"),

the use of the title "MISS" where she has registered her marriage could be misleading to foreign men who may incorrectly believe they are able to confirm a lady is not already married, by looking at her ID card.

I noticed this circumstance when my Thai wife and I registered our marriage and she then changed her surname to mine (as her choice), but having had a new ID card made, it still had the title "Miss". (She has since changed the title on it to "Mrs".)

This is therefore something about which foreign (non-Thai) men should made be aware,

Regards,

Robert333.

[Robert333]

Hello,

The reason why this post has duplicated, is because when I tried to submit my post I got an error message, something like:

"You do not have permission to post:

The administrator has restricted the number of posts ..."

So I posted again and there is not method to correct by allowing the user to delete a duplicate post!

Robert333

[Robert333]

And also no edit function to allow me to correct any typing errors!

[expatbrit]

British married women are permitted, if they so wish, to retain the title of Miss and their Maiden name.

I fail to see the "Problem".

[Boo]

Moved to Pub. Ladies forum is for women to post not to post about women.

[Robert333]

_Hello,



_{I have pointed out what could be an issue for others, but I assume that the somewhat dismissive response from contributor "expatbrit" simply means that it is not an issue for them.}



_{So far as contributor expatbrit's reference to the U.K. is concerned, one is normally warned on U.K. official forms that providing false information may lead to prosecution.}

_Regards,

_Robert333

[Sheryl]

I believe that in contemporary usage, nangsao (นางสาว) translates as either "Miss" or "Ms.".

[Robert333]

Hello,

I refer to Sheryl's helpful response.

While that is indeed interesting, it does not apply to what I have pointed out about the use of the English "MISS", which is allowed on Thai lady's ID cards, whether or not she has registered her marriage.

Regards,

Robert333

[glegolo]

It is just a matter of the the usual copying style in the thai culture.

The employee issuing the ID-card, do not speak any foein language (of course),,, and think in his ignorance that Miss or MS is a nickname of some sort or a just a name... and accept it as such....

Of course it is stupid,,, in our eyes...... but not in thai culture. This is Thailand and they go for things in their own culture, not in our cuture,,,, maybe we can say that this is understandable in some weird way...

Glegolo

[Robert333]

Hello,

Regarding Glegolo's response; this is not a question of "culture", but rather about the nature of the information that can be displayed on the national ID card.

Information can either be correct, or be incorrect. If incorrect, it may also be misleading.

Thais do NOT consider titles (Mr Miss Ms Mrs) to be "nicknames".

Regards,

Robert333

Edited December 9, 2015 by Robert333

[glegolo]

Robert333,

thai do not even understand Miss or MS... It doesn´t mean a shit to them,

Glegolo

[Robert333]

Hello Glegolo,

Thanks for your further response.

What you say is not correct, but in any event this query concerns a state-issued document.

Regards,

Robert333

Edited December 9, 2015 by Robert333

[h90]

I see in English it goes the same way as in German. That difference between married and not married complete went away. We just don't label women anymore as having already an owner or are free.

[Robert333]

Hello "h90",

Thanks for your response. I started this thread to warn that men should not rely on the English "Miss" on the ID cards to confirm whether a Thai lady is married or not.

It may perhaps, be rather tempting to go off topic, by trying to divert this matter into a feminist discussion about whether "Miss" is anacronistic; which by the way it may well be, since there is no equivilent title applicable to single men.

However, the point being made here is that the English title "Miss" is currently being used on the ID cards whether the lady is married or not, and "Miss" does still mean: "I am not married".

Kind regards,

Robert333

Edited December 14, 2015 by Robert333

[MaeJoMTB]

My wife has MISS on her ID card too.

But I think her British surname might give her marital status away.

[Robert333]

Hello MaeJoMTB,

Thanks for your response and you make a fair point, but that does leave what amounts to a factual inconsistancy on the ID card, and also Thai ladies quite rightly, are not obliged to take their husband's name when they register their marriage.

Regards,

Robert.

[NancyL]

There are times when Hubby wishes I hadn't taken his surname. But, it's not because I'm mis-representing my marital status.

[konying]

Every time I say to some girl how is Miss (her name ) the only response I get is " yes I miss you, you really miss me"

[h90]

Hello "h90",

Thanks for your response. I started this thread to warn that men should not rely on the English "Miss" on the ID cards to confirm whether a Thai lady is married or not.

It may perhaps, be rather tempting to go off topic, by trying to divert this matter into a feminist discussion about whether "Miss" is anacronistic; which by the way it may well be, since there is no equivilent title applicable to single men.

However, the point being made here is that the English title "Miss" is currently being used on the ID cards whether the lady is married or not, and "Miss" does still mean: "I am not married".

Kind regards,

Robert333

I think if you have to check her ID card if she is married or not (well and if she is Original woman or Mr.), than this is already going very wrong.

In Europe usually the people wear a ring when married. I don't know for Thailand, never paid attention to it. I don't wear a ring, my wife doesn't but she want to be Mrs. A year or two I heard a rant from her about everyone want to be Miss (not only the married women but also the modified Mr). For me it somehow doesn't has a relevance.

[Robert333]

Hello,

I would like to point out that the matter I raised in starting this thread, applies to BOTH the Thai ID Card and the Thai Passport.

Thus (if an "edit" function were available) I would amend my original post, as follows:

- - - - Edit to original post starts: - - - -

"I understand that a Thai lady is legally entitled to put onto her Thai Identity Card and her Passport, the title either: "Miss" or "Mrs" (I have no information about whether she can use "Ms"),

and that she can have these titles put on to her ID Card or on to her Passport, in either Thai or in English.

(The title appears in the ID Card / Passport "name" section.)

She can use the title "MISS", even though she has registered her marriage."

- - - - End of edit to original post - - - -

Regards,

Robert333

[Singerman]

Hello,

I would like to point out that the matter I raised in starting this thread, applies to BOTH the Thai ID Card and the Thai Passport.

Thus (if an "edit" function were available) I would amend my original post, as follows:

- - - - Edit to original post starts: - - - -

"I understand that a Thai lady is legally entitled to put onto her Thai Identity Card and her Passport, the title either: "Miss" or "Mrs" (I have no information about whether she can use "Ms"),

and that she can have these titles put on to her ID Card or on to her Passport, in either Thai or in English.

(The title appears in the ID Card / Passport "name" section.)

She can use the title "MISS", even though she has registered her marriage."

- - - - End of edit to original post - - - -

Regards,

Robert333

Passports usually only indicate the sex of the passport holder "M" or "F", no reference is made to civil status.

And Robert333 how is a lady to determine if you are married ? What ID do you possess which identifies your marital state?

[eldragon]

Yet another way Thai women can mislead foreigners about their relationship status.

[glegolo]

Yet another way Thai women can mislead foreigners about their relationship status.

You poor guy, I am sad for you, it must be hard for you out there in the real world. In your homecountry maybe you meet your nice western lady in a bar or restaurant, you mingle,,, you meet somebody,,,, you look at their fingers. no ring,, great..... that must mean by all means, she is not married. bla bla bla... crap..

Glegolo

[eldragon]

Yet another way Thai women can mislead foreigners about their relationship status.

You poor guy, I am sad for you, it must be hard for you out there in the real world. In your homecountry maybe you meet your nice western lady in a bar or restaurant, you mingle,,, you meet somebody,,,, you look at their fingers. no ring,, great..... that must mean by all means, she is not married. bla bla bla... crap..

Glegolo

Don't feel too bad for me. It's not like I'm married to a woman who's running around with an ID that tells the rest of the world she's single.

[SoiBiker]

I don't really understand this thread. Who meets a woman and then demands to inspect her ID card, anyway?

[glegolo]

Yet another way Thai women can mislead foreigners about their relationship status.

You poor guy, I am sad for you, it must be hard for you out there in the real world. In your homecountry maybe you meet your nice western lady in a bar or restaurant, you mingle,,, you meet somebody,,,, you look at their fingers. no ring,, great..... that must mean by all means, she is not married. bla bla bla... crap..

Glegolo

Don't feel too bad for me. It's not like I'm married to a woman who's running around with an ID that tells the rest of the world she's single.

It was your original post that was so damn cynical so i got a bit fired up there... Who cares what i thai ID says? Not me anyhow... And you cant even read it.....

So relax my friend, there are a lot of great ladies here in Thailand. Choose and be happy,,,, not cynical..

Glegolo

[Robert333]

Hello Singerman,

Thank you for your response.

British passports have "male" or "female" and do not indicate marital status. The passports of other countries may differ, as is so with Thai passports.

You ask:

“... Robert333 how is a lady to determine if you are married ? What ID do you possess which identifies your marital state?”

The answer is my “affirmation of marital status”, made at the British Embassy, prior to registering marriage to my Thai wife.

I agree with your sentiment though, and you will see from my earlier post that I noted that there is no corresponding unmarried title for a man. However, the point being made here is that the English title "Miss" is currently being used on the Thai ID Cards and Thai passports whether the lady is married or not, and "Miss" does still mean: "I am not married".

Regarding the earlier post from contributor "h90", wedding rings are (apart from not being obligatory), not state-issued documents.

Regards,

Robert333

[Robert333]

Hello glegolo,

Just want to remind you that this query is not about any country having information on their official identity documents in their own language. This query refers to the use of English, as a foreign language!

If I may also say so, there's no need for combative responses; its just a topic!

Regards,

Robert333

Edited December 25, 2015 by Robert333

[fiddlehead]

I'll just point out that my wife had no choice in the matter and when she got a new Govt. ID card (old one had expired), they insisted on changing her name to my last name.
I didn't want this to happen as her visa to my country is in her maiden name.
But, they did it anyway.
Now, she has to get a new visa to the US. (not easy at all!)

Bummer.