HooHaa Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 suprised to see so many answers for a question one can only assume was rhetorical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xen Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 How many countries have you driven in to make such a comment. Many Thai drivers, especially moror cyclists are not good drivers probably because of ignorance of rules. But they are a lot politer than in most countries. They do give way to you when you are trying to get into a line from a side street. Have you ever driven in Rome, no-0ne gves way. Same in many European countries. India is dreadful. The Aust.ralians are very agressive drivers, I found it quite frightening to drive there. I could go on, but I prefer driving here than most countries. . You are joking me Australia are bad drivers we have some bad drivers like all over the world but not like thailand and we are not talking about other countries the op is talking about thailand I can for the life of me when people like you bring in other countries it to it , you are in thailand ok so keep it in thailand and it is number 2 in the world for bad drivers 85 people die every day on the roads in thailand and that dose not includ the ones who die on the way to a hospital or in a hospital. Deaths on the roads are much lower in Australia. True. "Road rage" in Australia is far worse than in Thailand. The irony is you can be a victim of road rage if you show courtesy to another vehicle/driver/pedestrian . Actually that happens in both countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgemandm Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 How many countries have you driven in to make such a comment. Many Thai drivers, especially moror cyclists are not good drivers probably because of ignorance of rules. But they are a lot politer than in most countries. They do give way to you when you are trying to get into a line from a side street. Have you ever driven in Rome, no-0ne gves way. Same in many European countries. India is dreadful. The Aust.ralians are very agressive drivers, I found it quite frightening to drive there. I could go on, but I prefer driving here than most countries. .You are joking me Australia are bad drivers we have some bad drivers like all over the world but not like thailand and we are not talking about other countries the op is talking about thailand I can for the life of me when people like you bring in other countries it to it , you are in thailand ok so keep it in thailand and it is number 2 in the world for bad drivers 85 people die every day on the roads in thailand and that dose not includ the ones who die on the way to a hospital or in a hospital. Deaths on the roads are much lower in Australia. True. "Road rage" in Australia is far worse than in Thailand. How would you know that road rage in Australia is worse then thailand you have no idea what road rage in thailand is because you never ever see it on thai news not like Australia and I am telling you road rage in thailand would be very bad because of the way Thais drive . I am not here to have a go at Thais but it is how it is thailand drivers are bad and not you and not me can change it the thai government has to fix it up with education to there drivers like it happens in Australia now . It is not that easy to get your license in Australia not looking In thailand and that would be a start teach Thais how to be good drivers and fine them very hard like it happens in Australia. When I drive now in Melbourne I can see how the drivers most of them make sure not to speed not like in thailand so not sure how long it has been for you since you have been here in Australia but the drivers now are a lot more careful. Yes we get road rage but not like we did 10 years ago because now you can go to jail for it but in thailand it would not happen just a very small fine and see you later like not Thais get very small fines and not care , fine them 1,000 thai bht and see if they become better drivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masuk Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Darkly tinted glass in cars. Anonymity means no accountability. When no-one can see who is behind the wheel, drivers feel they can behave badly and get away with it. Even that very dark tinting is illegal. Thai standards say that the windows should not be as dark as most of them are. I had to get the tinting in my new car removed and replaced with the correct level of tinting. I agree that many drivers prefer to be anonymous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgordo38 Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 (edited) It was the biggest thing I noticed when I moved to Chiang Mai from Isaan was the increased level of stupidity and 'me, me, me' on the roads. It was also the reason I moved house so I can walk to work, or I'd have done something regrettable. Welcome to Chiang Mai. After dark the rice rockets roar up and down the road. They rule supreme. The cops have gone home. The most police presence you will see here is at busy intersections where they pick off the low hanging fruit i.e. motorbike helmets bike alterations ka ching ka ching. Driving here is a Jekyll and Hyde thing. The best way to commit suicide here is to stand in the middle of a cross walk. Edited December 10, 2015 by elgordo38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xxee Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Just be thankful you are in one piece after 1500km. Many are not. Rubbish. I have driven or rode on big bikes over 150,000k around Thailand in the last 10 years. Yep people get killed. Mostly on small motorbikes, or death by bloody stupidity: Like sitting in the back of a Vigo with 20 others or for that matter, sitting in Mini-busses. The only safe way is to make road safety YOUR responsibility, by driving defensively and leaving your western mindset back in the west (example, Might has right, forget about any other road rule) and expecting a level of craziness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xxee Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 It is not only Thailand, you can see the same driving behavior all over Asia and even further. Why? Because in these cultures life has much less value as where we come from. Just look at the compensation paid for killing somebody in a road accident. Best chance to survive a trip is to drive very defensive even when a complete nut case is driving like crazy, try to avoid but don't react. Never use the horn or flash lights, this is asking for trouble. More rubbish. Its a western arrogance to think that Asians love their children any less that you do. Who says that you pay less for a road death in Thailand? Often in Australia you can get away with it scot-free with a good defence strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgordo38 Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 What consequences do inconsiderate or thoughtless drivers face? A contribution to the BIB retirement fund? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xxee Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Its been said before, and I agree: Its the dark tinted windows. Anyone who rides a motorbike in the west will agree that safety comes from the minute you make eye contact with someone in a car, either eye-eye or in the rear view mirrors. Something human is passed, and some leeway given. (Unless either party is a psychopath). In a society where "face" is everything, manners are everything, as is a long fuse. But give some of these persons the anonymity of a dark tinted windows and look out! All bets are off: Minibuses sit aimlessly in the right lane, as do overloaded Vigos full of Pineapples: cars pull out in front of you at 20kph. Persons overtake around corners... And I think its because of the anonymity. They are not losing face for their selfish driving habits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthebruce Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Like everything else in ''Thailand'' that we find hard to ''Comprehend'' its ''EDUCATION''.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgordo38 Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 HONK< HONK!!!!! Shut up all of you!!!! Get out of my thread!!!!! You are all making me mad, and bothering my peace!!!! I bought big truck to be the man.... 99% of all cities there will be jerks......easier to be a jerk behind glass and a motor... I am now in America and just last night I hated 3 drivers......but saw hundreds of cars.......i go the speed limit, they don't understand... i wish i was the police everytime i drive... Well you may not be the police but you sure are something. Let me figure it out and get back to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luk AJ Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 It is not only Thailand, you can see the same driving behavior all over Asia and even further. Why? Because in these cultures life has much less value as where we come from. Just look at the compensation paid for killing somebody in a road accident. Best chance to survive a trip is to drive very defensive even when a complete nut case is driving like crazy, try to avoid but don't react. Never use the horn or flash lights, this is asking for trouble. More rubbish. Its a western arrogance to think that Asians love their children any less that you do. Who says that you pay less for a road death in Thailand? Often in Australia you can get away with it scot-free with a good defence strategy. Sorry if I sound arrogant but I did not mention that Asians love their children less. I have the impression that their attitude towards death is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir charles IV Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 You're assuming what they do is abnormal. This is how it is. When in Rome......... Farang need to stop applying farang rules in Thailand. Not just driving there are other stuff that farangs in Thailand find astonishing or unacceptable etc. it's all normal here. Nothing unusual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fookhaht Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Darkly tinted glass in cars. Anonymity means no accountability. When no-one can see who is behind the wheel, drivers feel they can behave badly and get away with it. This explanation fits well with the dynamics of Thai social hierarchy. Dote over family, to Hades with strangers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmaxdan Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 So years ago I was walking around my local Saturday morning market and I noticed that every time I tried to be courteous to anyone, for example move out of the way to let them through, they just looked at me like they didn't know what to do. This got me thinking, if many of the locals don't understand western etiquette as we know it in an environment such as a market, then it stands to reason they are going to be no better when behind the wheel of a car. In most western cultures we are brought up to always put other people before your self. If Thai culture is not the same, then it will not be part of their thought process to be considerate on the roads in the way (mostly) us Farangs are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemrut Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Despite your experience and relation with other Thais, you're merely projecting your western notion of what is right and wrong--and that will cause you unending frustration if not anger and grief. You're in Asia, this is Thailand, the culture different as well the mindset. Many others on TV have voiced similar opinions such as yours attributing it to inconsideration, poor driving, etc. Why is this perception so common among farang? Because it's all about me and how youre inconveniencing me or being a potential threat to me..do you see theme here? At the end of the day we're all human, but if I had to pick a country with the most courteous drivers it would be Thailand. Even in Nordic countries where drivers tend to be more civil than other countries in EU, there is a sense of entitlement and selfishness on the road leading to mild passive, aggressive road rage. Ever wonder why many Thais rarely look the other way when entering the road? Because there is an unspoken rule/understanding that others will see them entering and give them the right of way. If you think the drivers in Thailand are inconsiderate try Vietnam. The traffic in the larger cities is much worse and far more chaotic but they make it work. There is method to the madness along with a high amount of civility that allows the traffic to flow despite misguided perceptions of what is right/wrong by foreigners. Why? Because it's not about me, me, me - it's about us. Many farang simply dont understand this while ignorantly attributing behavior they disapprove of as 'losing face.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwikeith Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 I find most farang drivers drive that way because they can get away with it. if they drove like that at home they either got a big fine or lose their licence while in Thailand if stopped they get a 200thb fine. True, young hoons in NZ are stupid idiots on the Rd, in Australia as well only the police presence slows them down, if lax police presence was the status que in other countries beside asian countries then the problems wouold be the same. Given that NZ has a population of 5 mill and Thailand 65 mill then 13 times more maniacs on the Rd, couple that with lax Police or Rd education and you have a fireworks display. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeHere Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 How many countries have you driven in to make such a comment. Many Thai drivers, especially moror cyclists are not good drivers probably because of ignorance of rules. But they are a lot politer than in most countries. They do give way to you when you are trying to get into a line from a side street. Have you ever driven in Rome, no-0ne gves way. Same in many European countries. India is dreadful. The Aust.ralians are very agressive drivers, I found it quite frightening to drive there. I could go on, but I prefer driving here than most countries. . When I moved to New Zealand from the States (Boston originally), I was shocked by the opposite hand driving and the odd right of way rules... There, you must give way to cars turning into a side road from the main road (or something to that effect). People were quite courteous over there from my experience. Then I moved to Melbourne... my god! I was completely shocked by the aggressiveness and lack of courtesy... There was no "she'll be right mate", "no worries mate", "g'day mate" on those roads, I'll tell you that... I got the long/loud horns honked at me if I gave way, drove a bit too far behind the one in front, and all kinds of wanky road rage! Here, the drivers are just plain old muppets and/or greedy/selfish asshats... I'm especially amazed at the ones who get in the fast lane and go all the way up to the exit and cram their way in front of everyone that's been waiting for <insert number here> hours! If some of these people pulled the crap they pull here in my country, they wouldn't survive long! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlutinousMaximus Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 (edited) Maybe a large proportion are just plain thick. There was a study sometime which indicated the low IQ of a large percentage of the population. Add to that an unwillingness to learn....and a propensity of many for day long drinking. Such a helpful post thanks for sharing with us bet it took you all day to come up with that To my mind, poster Jonathon has a point. Regardless of what level of training you've had, or how good/bad the driver vetting & enforcement system is, there comes a point where you need to work out for yourself (as a driver) what's happening out in the real world on the roads, and the risks associated with certain manoeuvres. An inability to do so, which we can clearly infer from the behaviour of all around us as well as the terrible RTA stats in Thailand, points to a rather shaky grasp of physics/reality. Edited December 10, 2015 by GlutinousMaximus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 (edited) Despite your experience and relation with other Thais, you're merely projecting your western notion of what is right and wrong--and that will cause you unending frustration if not anger and grief. You're in Asia, this is Thailand, the culture different as well the mindset. Many others on TV have voiced similar opinions such as yours attributing it to inconsideration, poor driving, etc. Why is this perception so common among farang? Because it's all about me and how youre inconveniencing me or being a potential threat to me..do you see theme here? At the end of the day we're all human, but if I had to pick a country with the most courteous drivers it would be Thailand. Even in Nordic countries where drivers tend to be more civil than other countries in EU, there is a sense of entitlement and selfishness on the road leading to mild passive, aggressive road rage. Ever wonder why many Thais rarely look the other way when entering the road? Because there is an unspoken rule/understanding that others will see them entering and give them the right of way. If you think the drivers in Thailand are inconsiderate try Vietnam. The traffic in the larger cities is much worse and far more chaotic but they make it work. There is method to the madness along with a high amount of civility that allows the traffic to flow despite misguided perceptions of what is right/wrong by foreigners. Why? Because it's not about me, me, me - it's about us. Many farang simply dont understand this while ignorantly attributing behavior they disapprove of as 'losing face.' Culture is often used in an attempt to excuse the inexcusable... Added to which your argument becomes fundamentally flawed when Thai's have and voice exactly the same opinions and criticisms... I'm not sure where you've been driving in Thailand, but curtesy is definitely not a trait I'd generally associate with driving in Thailand. However, I do agree that 'road rage' and acts of 'aggression' are minimal here in Thailand - but why is that? I'll answer my own question: Its because once the switch has been triggered the resulting violence is devastating... think Guns, machetes etc... no one wants that, so acts of aggression which could trigger violence are avoided at all costs. On another point you made: Why Thai's rarely look the other way when entering a road - your overlooking the simple answers - stupidity, carelessness, lack of attention... In those cases whereby people don't look the simple answer is that they are just dumb, there is no way of dressing this up to make it more polite or less offensive... All of that said - The driving in Thailand isn't as bad as some of these threads make out.. But, it isn't very good either... Edited December 10, 2015 by richard_smith237 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazza40 Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 You are joking me Australia are bad drivers we have some bad drivers like all over the world but not like thailand and we are not talking about other countries the op is talking about thailand I can for the life of me when people like you bring in other countries it to it , you are in thailand ok so keep it in thailand and it is number 2 in the world for bad drivers 85 people die every day on the roads in thailand and that dose not includ the ones who die on the way to a hospital or in a hospital. Deaths on the roads are much lower in Australia. True. "Road rage" in Australia is far worse than in Thailand. How would you know that road rage in Australia is worse then thailand you have no idea what road rage in thailand is because you never ever see it on thai news not like Australia and I am telling you road rage in thailand would be very bad because of the way Thais drive . I am not here to have a go at Thais but it is how it is thailand drivers are bad and not you and not me can change it the thai government has to fix it up with education to there drivers like it happens in Australia now . It is not that easy to get your license in Australia not looking In thailand and that would be a start teach Thais how to be good drivers and fine them very hard like it happens in Australia. When I drive now in Melbourne I can see how the drivers most of them make sure not to speed not like in thailand so not sure how long it has been for you since you have been here in Australia but the drivers now are a lot more careful. Yes we get road rage but not like we did 10 years ago because now you can go to jail for it but in thailand it would not happen just a very small fine and see you later like not Thais get very small fines and not care , fine them 1,000 thai bht and see if they become better drivers. I go back to Australia once every six months for about two months. I drive in Melbourne, and there are plenty of aggressive drivers there. Still reports of road rage, despite the penalties. So I'm equally careful there as I am here. In five years driving here, I've never seen an example of road rage. Thais seem to be quite phlegmatic about the idiots in their midst. If you were to apply fines here on the same monetary scale as Australia, it would be 3000 baht minimum. The police might not know what to do with that much tea money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaeJoMTB Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 (edited) My hunch (and it just that) is that the worst behaviour I see on the on the roads is perpetrated by males. Women behind the wheel tend to be very cautious, perhaps overly so (and again I am generalising). Video of a Thai woman pulling out of a side road (silver car on left) in front of me, on a fast main road, as if I didn't exist. I would say the bad diving is entirely equal across the sexes. Remember the woman hitting the group of cyclists on the road to Doi Saket? http://vid.me/RHSM Edited December 10, 2015 by MaeJoMTB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlutinousMaximus Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 (edited) My hunch (and it just that) is that the worst behaviour I see on the on the roads is perpetrated by males. Women behind the wheel tend to be very cautious, perhaps overly so (and again I am generalising). Video of a Thai woman pulling out of a side road (silver car on left) in front of me, on a fast main road, as if I didn't exist. I would say the bad diving is entirely equal across the sexes. Remember the woman hitting the group of cyclists on the road to Doi Saket? http://vid.me/RHSM You displayed some admirable restraint there - I'd have been tempted to let out a few choice expletives! It did look like a fairly textbook 'SMIDSY' however - as in "Sorry mate I didn't see you." which also happens in Farangland fairly regularly for people on bikes, motorbikes etc. See this vid here for a particularly unpleasant example: https://youtu.be/hZCadhDW_i0?t=166 And yes as you say, women are perfectly capable of causing accidents, viz. the bike carnage you reference, the young lady who killed all those people in the minibus, the actor woman who killed a cop etc. - arguably however, those are passive/mistakes of omission (i.e. the driver failed to stop in time or take note of a developing situation) There's another class of aggressive/risky manoeuvres which are more 'active' - e.g. When you're on the open road at 100KPH and some dimwit undertakes you at speed, then cuts in front of you with inches to spare, 9 times out of a 10, it's a guy driving (at least in in my experience). Edited December 10, 2015 by GlutinousMaximus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Record Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Move to Thailand when you're still a young man, you won't be too old to adapt. That's what I did and I've adapted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgemandm Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Move to Thailand when you're still a young man, you won't be too old to adapt. That's what I did and I've adapted. So you think move to a 3 th world country like thailand when you are young man makes you adapted do you . Well how wrong are you if I was stupid I could but I am not that stupid to move to a 3 rd world country like thailand to try and become rich and have money for when I am older and can live like a king now be it in thailand or my country No thank you thailand is a great place for getting woman and have a ok life but if not for the puss you and me would not be in thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearpolar Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 (edited) My hunch (and it just that) is that the worst behaviour I see on the on the roads is perpetrated by males. Women behind the wheel tend to be very cautious, perhaps overly so (and again I am generalising). Video of a Thai woman pulling out of a side road (silver car on left) in front of me, on a fast main road, as if I didn't exist. I would say the bad diving is entirely equal across the sexes. Remember the woman hitting the group of cyclists on the road to Doi Saket? http://vid.me/RHSM Ahhh a cyclist. Cycling on a busy fast road. Expecting the world to be safe and everyone to not be annoyed by the space he's taking. Yeah she's dumb but cyclists that decide to cycle on busy main roads are just as inconsiderate. Taking a whole lane going super slow. Don't know who i dislike the most in this video Also don't forget, a small "road" bike is really hard to see in the heat and high sun. There's a very big chance she could not see you coming as you werent that close. She saw no car while around the corner, decided to cross the first 2 lanes while looking left at the oposite oncoming traffic. edit: yeah upon rewatch, she reached the intersection that is badly designed when you were right behind the parked car, she could not see you. She saw no traffic coming from your way, she was 2 cars left to drive past from the other side so started advancing slowly (to not get blocked by a maniac going 120kph and then 50 people following him) to reach the oposite side just in time after that second car will have passed her. She was constantly looking at them as your way was now blocking by her and she knew if people were to be coming soon, they would slow down knowing that she was about to cross. Edited December 10, 2015 by bearpolar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimdandy Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Put the shoe on the other foot. Why do so many farang expect drivers to behave they way they do in their home country. It;s not going to happen, it's their country no matter how long you live here. Get over it. It is not the right or wrong of it as much as the cultural climate. I lived in northern China and watched in horror more than once as a couple that appeared to be in their 70's or older tried to get across the street and not one car would stop for them. They waited for the light to turn green but could not make it across in time because they were so old and slow. When I asked my friend why no cars would stop she said they just do not want to. Imagine my reaction until I stepped back and realized I have no influence on their cultural idiosyncrasies. How does that song go...and I say to myself, what a wonderful world... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angiolo Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Going back to the OP Re two lanes as it's legal to pass on the inside on a road with two or more lanes going in the same direction don't see a problem , it was asked in Ask the lawyer some time back and they posted the legislatio NO NOT LEGAL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angiolo Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Going back to the OP Re two lanes as it's legal to pass on the inside on a road with two or more lanes going in the same direction don't see a problem , it was asked in Ask the lawyer some time back and they posted the legislation . So you really want to know the rules of driving in Thailand..in English.If you memorise the rules you will know what the police are not aware of.. So google this :- thailaws.com/law/t-laws/tlaw/o140-5.pdf NOW you know Angiolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaeJoMTB Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 (edited) Taking a whole lane going super slow. Don't know who i dislike the most in this video I was cycling at 40Km/hr, which is the legal maximum speed in CM. Not to mention, she was entering a main road from a side road, a cement lorry would have wasted her. Her drivers window was in clear line of sight of my camera the whole time. Two m/cs driving behind me also nearly hit her. What's wrong with you, is the big question? Edited December 10, 2015 by MaeJoMTB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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