UK expats for EU exit

[emilymat]

Billd766

As the lawyer for the UK government said in his pitch to the European Court of HR, regarding pension increases;

"These people (us) who choose to absent themselves from the UK and make no contribution whatsoever to the economy, should not receive increases on a social security benefit"

So, where the hell is yours and my income tax going? Pananma?

I am buggered if I know but I DO know that I am contributing to the UK economy by paying income tax and not bludging off the government for any other "benefits that I would be entitled to, such as child benefit at the rate of £20.70 per week. My son is 12 so think how much the government has saved on that alone, let alone free glasses, free NHS treatment, bus pass etc and some wonker of a government lawyer is being paid some of my tax money and has the audacity to say that?

I've still got it on video somewhere. There were even veiled hints in his presentation that we were lucky to receive a pension at all as it was a social security benefit. Frankly, I was gobsmacked when the court rejected (our) claim by a majority decision. I would be happy, and I guess you might, if they did a deal and said no pension increases but no tax on private pension. Pigs will fly.

[jpinx]

Actually the thing that stands out is the pathetic representation of the interests of the expat pensioner.

[nontabury]

Billd766

As the lawyer for the UK government said in his pitch to the European Court of HR, regarding pension increases;

"These people (us) who choose to absent themselves from the UK and make no contribution whatsoever to the economy, should not receive increases on a social security benefit"

So, where the hell is yours and my income tax going? Pananma?

I am buggered if I know but I DO know that I am contributing to the UK economy by paying income tax and not bludging off the government for any other "benefits that I would be entitled to, such as child benefit at the rate of £20.70 per week. My son is 12 so think how much the government has saved on that alone, let alone free glasses, free NHS treatment, bus pass etc and some wonker of a government lawyer is being paid some of my tax money and has the audacity to say that?

I've still got it on video somewhere. There were even veiled hints in his presentation that we were lucky to receive a pension at all as it was a social security benefit. Frankly, I was gobsmacked when the court rejected (our) claim by a majority decision. I would be happy, and I guess you might, if they did a deal and said no pension increases but no tax on private pension. Pigs will fly.

It was also interesting to be later informed that the same court consisted of judges of other EU states, whose citizens were entitled to upgrades in their pension, even when they lived in other countries outside the EU. Yet for some strange reason they decided the pension of Brits should be frozen.

[nong38]

All European insitutions seem to move in mysterious ways, ways we find puzzling to understand. Logic and common sense seem to have no bearing on them. Take the Eurovision Song Contest as an example, not only the voting system but where the countries come from, they are expanding that as well to well out of Europe! We should have seen this coming with Its a Knockout, how aptly named.

[emilymat]

If it's of interest, my electoral officer has told me the ballot paper 'pack' will be sent out to overseas voters on Monday 23rd May.

This is much better than the general election and gives just over 4 weeks for it to get to Thailand and be returned. Good fighting chance.

Personally, I have agreed they keep mine at the council offices as I am flying to the UK on 5 June for 5 weeks. I can collect with ID.

[MartinL]

My electoral officer also mentioned that date and included the following in a recent e-mail to me:-

"Also, there are arrangements being put into place for us to issue a 1^st Class International Response envelope with the postal vote packs for the EU Referendum (usually overseas voters have to pay their own return postage)".

[nong38]

Report in the Express today about how much the EU interferes in the life of the UK, it was not a main release with a fanfare as it does not show the EU in a good light, what it does show is how undemocratic the EU servants have become over time as they gain more and front and power. In effect they can vote in the Uks affairs whilst UK expats who leave the the UK lose the right influence decisions after 15 years, which again is not very democratic is it?

The 10 week campaign is now underway and the latest opinion poll by ICM suggests that many of the undecided have moved to the OUT position but at 45-42 for OUT it is still a close call, dont know what the bookies are doing have to admit but one thing is for sure, Dave will throw the wrong cards into the ring time and time again, antagonizing the electorate as he does so.

[emilymat]

I watched Corbyn's big 'speech' yesterday, where he threw the weight of the Labour Party behind the 'remain' campaign.

Frankly, I found the whole thing rather depressing. He visualises a Europe that primarily and almost solely interested in the rights of workers. It's all a bit 'rose tinted spectacles'. Now I know that European legislation over the years has benefited UK workers in a host of ways. Also, things such as maternity leave etc have also improved enormously. The thing is, why couldn't those improvements have been implemented by a UK parliament anyway, particularly as we had a Labour government for 13 years 97-10.?

He spent most of his time attacking the Tories, which is fair enough in a domestic speech, but this one was supposed to convince Labour Party members (of which I am one) that remaining in Europe was the utopia and leaving was the route to hell. I was not convinced at all by what he said. I also, and sadly, simply do not believe this is his view. He has always been anti-European and this was an exercise in satisfying his MP's that he is the 'man'.

[nong38]

Now here is a real stumper of a question and maybe someone out there can help me to understand this.

Guernsey is the second largest of the Channel Islands the population is about 60,000, Its not in the EU. Although we look after there foreign affairs it governed internally by the people of the island. Now the Island of Guernsey, according to recent reports, is thriving outside the clutches of the EU, now I would have thought that if they can we can, but our valiant, heroic PM tells us this not so and have to come to the conclusion that either the PM or I are two sandwiches short of a picnic, the lights are on but there is no one home, is there something you need to think about before the great vote. We might all end up living in Guernsey, must tell you though its a bit windy at times!

[nong38]

I was going to write this tomorrow but what the heck, tonight will do.

We all have our priorities in the EU debate, the subjects that are important to us, the one that sway us into our positions and then make it difficult to move us out of, so many of us have already made up our minds which way we want to vote on the 23rd June. Maybe it democracy, immigration, borders, economy, our own lifestyle, our potential wealth, we want our country back or whatever.

Let me give you something you might not have thought about, bearing in mind that the EU have decided to take no notice of what the Dutch people have said and what the British people think, at least I think that is what they think, about the way the civil servants in Brussels just trample over everything regardless.

Is this more than just a vote to get out of the EU here?

Is this more a vote about the Establishment versus the People?

Well where do you stand, think about it.

[jpinx]

I was going to write this tomorrow but what the heck, tonight will do.

We all have our priorities in the EU debate, the subjects that are important to us, the one that sway us into our positions and then make it difficult to move us out of, so many of us have already made up our minds which way we want to vote on the 23rd June. Maybe it democracy, immigration, borders, economy, our own lifestyle, our potential wealth, we want our country back or whatever.

Let me give you something you might not have thought about, bearing in mind that the EU have decided to take no notice of what the Dutch people have said and what the British people think, at least I think that is what they think, about the way the civil servants in Brussels just trample over everything regardless.

Is this more than just a vote to get out of the EU here?

Is this more a vote about the Establishment versus the People?

Well where do you stand, think about it.

It was ever thus,,,,,,,,,

[sometime]

I was going to write this tomorrow but what the heck, tonight will do.

We all have our priorities in the EU debate, the subjects that are important to us, the one that sway us into our positions and then make it difficult to move us out of, so many of us have already made up our minds which way we want to vote on the 23rd June. Maybe it democracy, immigration, borders, economy, our own lifestyle, our potential wealth, we want our country back or whatever.

Let me give you something you might not have thought about, bearing in mind that the EU have decided to take no notice of what the Dutch people have said and what the British people think, at least I think that is what they think, about the way the civil servants in Brussels just trample over everything regardless.

Is this more than just a vote to get out of the EU here?

Is this more a vote about the Establishment versus the People?

Well where do you stand, think about it.

And whats the betting that if the vote is stay in the EU (I hope not) Brussels will decide the pound will replaced by the Euro, the Euro will be the only currency in Europe.

[billd766]

I was going to write this tomorrow but what the heck, tonight will do.

We all have our priorities in the EU debate, the subjects that are important to us, the one that sway us into our positions and then make it difficult to move us out of, so many of us have already made up our minds which way we want to vote on the 23rd June. Maybe it democracy, immigration, borders, economy, our own lifestyle, our potential wealth, we want our country back or whatever.

Let me give you something you might not have thought about, bearing in mind that the EU have decided to take no notice of what the Dutch people have said and what the British people think, at least I think that is what they think, about the way the civil servants in Brussels just trample over everything regardless.

Is this more than just a vote to get out of the EU here?

Is this more a vote about the Establishment versus the People?

Well where do you stand, think about it.

And whats the betting that if the vote is stay in the EU (I hope not) Brussels will decide the pound will replaced by the Euro, the Euro will be the only currency in Europe.

Now I wouldn't put any money on that and I suspect that any political party in the UK that tried that would be tossed out on its ear.

One thought is at the present for any major changes to the EU have to be agreed by ALL 27/28/29 states and if only 1 disagrees then it is dead in the water.

[sometime]

I read today that the EU has legislation on hold until after the end of June to take control of the UK Pensions and welfare system! The mind only boggles at what this might mean, might it mean that we have to bring all the poorer countries up to our levels with our money whilst we stand still and just watch our navels disappear in the process?

No doubt most have seen this in the Express today

Horror as Turkish is made an 'official EU language' before ANY voters support membership

[sometime]

I was going to write this tomorrow but what the heck, tonight will do.

We all have our priorities in the EU debate, the subjects that are important to us, the one that sway us into our positions and then make it difficult to move us out of, so many of us have already made up our minds which way we want to vote on the 23rd June. Maybe it democracy, immigration, borders, economy, our own lifestyle, our potential wealth, we want our country back or whatever.

Let me give you something you might not have thought about, bearing in mind that the EU have decided to take no notice of what the Dutch people have said and what the British people think, at least I think that is what they think, about the way the civil servants in Brussels just trample over everything regardless.

Is this more than just a vote to get out of the EU here?

Is this more a vote about the Establishment versus the People?

Well where do you stand, think about it.

And whats the betting that if the vote is stay in the EU (I hope not) Brussels will decide the pound will replaced by the Euro, the Euro will be the only currency in Europe.

Now I wouldn't put any money on that and I suspect that any political party in the UK that tried that would be tossed out on its ear.

One thought is at the present for any major changes to the EU have to be agreed by ALL 27/28/29 states and if only 1 disagrees then it is dead in the water.

So this is like the Dutch vote,no more countries in the EU that Brussels decided to ignore, and just walk all over them.

As the Irish Minister stated Brussels wants a new country called the EU.

[nong38]

The Dutch are petitioning again for a further referendum, they are not happy, cant think why!

Another Big Gun sides with Brexit and its BEEFY, Sir Ian Botham, top man, now then Geoffrey what dust tha say lad?

[emilymat]

I've just received an e mail from the Labour Party asking me to contribute 10/20/30 pounds to the 'in' campaign.

Bit rich, considering I, as a taxpayer, have already contributed to the governments 'leaflet'.

I just can't get my head around the Labour Party position. They seem to have an Alice in Wonderland about how Europe can be reformed into this workers paradise, whilst sidelining the reality of corporate interest and individual gravy trains.

I've been a member since 1965 and I am now convinced they have lost their way. If they were truly representing the 'ordinary working man' in the UK then this fanatical support for Europe is certainly not a reflection of the overwhelming view of us mere mortals. Sure, there are inners and outers but the way JC seems to be portraying it is that only an idiot cannot see the advantages to the working man, or, as the Tories call us 'hardworking families' or that Tory MP who referred to us as 'under achievers'. God help us.

[brewsterbudgen]

I was going to write this tomorrow but what the heck, tonight will do.

We all have our priorities in the EU debate, the subjects that are important to us, the one that sway us into our positions and then make it difficult to move us out of, so many of us have already made up our minds which way we want to vote on the 23rd June. Maybe it democracy, immigration, borders, economy, our own lifestyle, our potential wealth, we want our country back or whatever.

Let me give you something you might not have thought about, bearing in mind that the EU have decided to take no notice of what the Dutch people have said and what the British people think, at least I think that is what they think, about the way the civil servants in Brussels just trample over everything regardless.

Is this more than just a vote to get out of the EU here?

Is this more a vote about the Establishment versus the People?

Well where do you stand, think about it.

And whats the betting that if the vote is stay in the EU (I hope not) Brussels will decide the pound will replaced by the Euro, the Euro will be the only currency in Europe.

It won't happen. Not a chance.

[nong38]

Immigration is what 71% of the surveyed by UGOV poll for 5 news have chalked up as the main issue, thats a battle that Dave cannot win, meanwhile his mate next door is claiming that if we vote out every family will be £4300 worse off, people will be having their gut feelings about where they stand and claims like that by the Chancellor will just harden the stance and make him look stupid if he ever has to explain how they arrived at that figure.

[evadgib]

EU referendum: HM Treasury analysis key facts

[nontabury]

EU referendum: HM Treasury analysis key facts

Propaganda. Who says so? Members of Cameron's government. As they say,

It's there to scare you. Same as 1975 referendum and when they tried to steamroll us into the Euro. Expect more before the June referendum.

[emilymat]

EU referendum: HM Treasury analysis key facts

Propaganda. Who says so? Members of Cameron's government. As they say,

It's there to scare you. Same as 1975 referendum and when they tried to steamroll us into the Euro. Expect more before the June referendum.

Project fear is now well under way.

Clearly, the Treasury is hoping that the bulk of the 'undecideds' read that as though there will be some form of immediate family loss of income of around 4800 pounds. In fact of course it is a projection for 2030 suggesting that the national GDP/divided by the number of households in the UK will be that amount worse off. How they know what the situation will be in 14years is questionable.

It's almost the reverse of the famous Harold Wilson saying,after devaluation, "Of course, this does not mean the pound in your pocket is worth any less than it was yesterday". (Of course, if you are not an ex pat).

I would love to know what the Treasury forecast for the economy was in,say, 2004 for the next 14years. They certainly would not of factored in the financial crash of 2007/8.

The 'in' campaign is probably going to win on this fear issue.

[nong38]

I was listening to David Buik to day, he said that the Treasury forecast record is not good and he is right. For you and I to forecast 3 or 6 months into the future is not easy, to try and do that for 14 years is in the realms of fortune telling. Imagine if you could see 14 years into the future what you could do!

Forecasts are just that you either believe them or you note them, then you consider them. Then you realize that 14 years is not on, but some people will believe it.

Some of our greatest leaders began life as children, some of them still are and believe that everyone else is the same, some live in Downing Street today.

It is a fact that everyone that was born in the 70s does not know what living in the UK was like prior to the EEC/EU so they only know the world we know from then.

I remember a world before that time and it was good, in the 60s. I voted for the joining the EEC, I thought it was a good idea, from what I was told, I thought about me and the kids future. Things did not turn out the way I thought they would , I did not expect the take over of the EU like it has been, if I had known that then I voted differently, but I cannot go back, none of us can, all we can do is try and put things right and the right thing is to vote out and stand on our feet and fit in with the rest of the world the way we always have and been successful at as well.

Big business and Governments look after themselves, they dont do anymore than they have to and they look after themselves before us, they are politicians, they end up with good pensions which are not frozen, they look after each other, sort out the jobs etc, why would you want to trust them? They are the Establishment, they expect to win every time, well this time it has to be different, this time it the people that have to win, if the people dont win they will be no more than slaves to the EU and the UK in the EU will be no more than a lap dog, we accepted terms that can be thrown out by the EU Assembly, is that to be our place in History?

Edited April 19, 2016 by nong38

[emilymat]

The other thing that gets me is George Osborne.

Now, I have been a Labour supporter for donkey's years but that does not mean I haven't got a reasonable view about Tory polititians. I actually quite liked Ted Heath, John Major and Ken Clarke as individuals for example.

However, for some reason, George makes my skin crawl. It's not only his superior attitude but he also thinks we don't know that his real ambition is to replace DC. His best bet for doing that is to win the referendum, which will finish off Boris. So, he's going to say anything, and order the Treasury to say anything, to scare the living daylights out of the electorate.

[kingalfred]

[nong38]

The other thing that gets me is George Osborne.

Now, I have been a Labour supporter for donkey's years but that does not mean I haven't got a reasonable view about Tory politicians. I actually quite liked Ted Heath, John Major and Ken Clarke as individuals for example.

However, for some reason, George makes my skin crawl. It's not only his superior attitude but he also thinks we don't know that his real ambition is to replace DC. His best bet for doing that is to win the referendum, which will finish off Boris. So, he's going to say anything, and order the Treasury to say anything, to scare the living daylights out of the electorate.

Ken Clarke9 MP for Nottingham Forest) is a europhile but I would enjoy meeting him down the pub, John Major great bloke met him several times, but Osbourne( Ritz Crackers) as I like to call him is different kettle of fish. He has never worked in the real world and is just a stuck up brat, his end game is to be PM and then move onto the EU and get another pension and great wage packet and for what, he is just clever with words. I would much prefer Boris or Michael Gove as PM than this little bag of crackers.

We dont always get what we want in life, I have always leaned towards the right in politics, but Cameron has been a huge disappointment, Corbean is unelectable, we therefore have a useless offer, we have to hope that the referendum gives us a better option, for a democracy to work there has to be a good government and an effective opposition, the UK has neither at the moment sadly, with 2 months to go I think a lot of Europe is waking up to the loss of our input and/or being the first of many to leave and form a true free trading block.

[Ricardo]

Ken Clarke9 MP for Nottingham Forest) is a europhile but I would enjoy meeting him down the pub, John Major great bloke met him several times, but Osbourne( Ritz Crackers) as I like to call him is different kettle of fish. He has never worked in the real world and is just a stuck up brat, his end game is to be PM and then move onto the EU and get another pension and great wage packet and for what, he is just clever with words. I would much prefer Boris or Michael Gove as PM than this little bag of crackers.

We dont always get what we want in life, I have always leaned towards the right in politics, but Cameron has been a huge disappointment, Corbean is unelectable, we therefore have a useless offer, we have to hope that the referendum gives us a better option, for a democracy to work there has to be a good government and an effective opposition, the UK has neither at the moment sadly, with 2 months to go I think a lot of Europe is waking up to the loss of our input and/or being the first of many to leave and form a true free trading block.

"and form a true free trading block"

I think that goes to the heart of it.

A sensible free-trading block, which reduces impediments to trading like bureaucracy, and sets common minimum-standards can be a good thing for all. The problem is getting to there, from here ! And linking this decision to the emotive subject of Immigration confuses the rational economics-based decision IMO.

Is it better to stay within the EU, and try very much harder to reform it & make it work, or to step away and start again ?

Will our politicians suddenly transform to become competent, then restore the UK to a working-democracy once again, and fix our problems ... or are we better praying for Europe to do it for them ?

Quite frankly, I'm still undecided, as to which is the best option.

[nontabury]

Ken Clarke9 MP for Nottingham Forest) is a europhile but I would enjoy meeting him down the pub, John Major great bloke met him several times, but Osbourne( Ritz Crackers) as I like to call him is different kettle of fish. He has never worked in the real world and is just a stuck up brat, his end game is to be PM and then move onto the EU and get another pension and great wage packet and for what, he is just clever with words. I would much prefer Boris or Michael Gove as PM than this little bag of crackers.

We dont always get what we want in life, I have always leaned towards the right in politics, but Cameron has been a huge disappointment, Corbean is unelectable, we therefore have a useless offer, we have to hope that the referendum gives us a better option, for a democracy to work there has to be a good government and an effective opposition, the UK has neither at the moment sadly, with 2 months to go I think a lot of Europe is waking up to the loss of our input and/or being the first of many to leave and form a true free trading block.

"and form a true free trading block"

I think that goes to the heart of it.

A sensible free-trading block, which reduces impediments to trading like bureaucracy, and sets common minimum-standards can be a good thing for all. The problem is getting to there, from here ! And linking this decision to the emotive subject of Immigration confuses the rational economics-based decision IMO.

Is it better to stay within the EU, and try very much harder to reform it & make it work, or to step away and start again ?

Will our politicians suddenly transform to become competent, then restore the UK to a working-democracy once again, and fix our problems ... or are we better praying for Europe to do it for them ?

Quite frankly, I'm still undecided, as to which is the best option.

[/

/////::::::::::

Regarding your point of staying in and reforming the EU.

Please read the thread - Britex do you support it. Post 229

Edited April 21, 2016 by nontabury

[jpinx]

Ken Clarke9 MP for Nottingham Forest) is a europhile but I would enjoy meeting him down the pub, John Major great bloke met him several times, but Osbourne( Ritz Crackers) as I like to call him is different kettle of fish. He has never worked in the real world and is just a stuck up brat, his end game is to be PM and then move onto the EU and get another pension and great wage packet and for what, he is just clever with words. I would much prefer Boris or Michael Gove as PM than this little bag of crackers.

We dont always get what we want in life, I have always leaned towards the right in politics, but Cameron has been a huge disappointment, Corbean is unelectable, we therefore have a useless offer, we have to hope that the referendum gives us a better option, for a democracy to work there has to be a good government and an effective opposition, the UK has neither at the moment sadly, with 2 months to go I think a lot of Europe is waking up to the loss of our input and/or being the first of many to leave and form a true free trading block.

"and form a true free trading block"

I think that goes to the heart of it.

A sensible free-trading block, which reduces impediments to trading like bureaucracy, and sets common minimum-standards can be a good thing for all. The problem is getting to there, from here ! And linking this decision to the emotive subject of Immigration confuses the rational economics-based decision IMO.

Is it better to stay within the EU, and try very much harder to reform it & make it work, or to step away and start again ?

Will our politicians suddenly transform to become competent, then restore the UK to a working-democracy once again, and fix our problems ... or are we better praying for Europe to do it for them ?

Quite frankly, I'm still undecided, as to which is the best option.

[/

/////::::::::::

Regarding your point of staying in and reforming the EU.

Please read the thread - Britex do you support it. Post 229

The "free trade agreement" is what we originally joined -- then called the "Common Market", but from there things only got quickly burdened with a perceived requirement to standardise all the products - who remembers the square tomato farce? In the light of that experience - anyone who thinks that the EU is going to be better than westminster is deluding themselves. Free trade is the ultimate "let the buyer beware" environment, so be careful what you wish for -- unless you are expert in the specific thing being dealt with.

UK has been in the handcart-to-hell since Harold Wilson's devaluation supposedly didn't affect the value of the "pound in your pocket", but then came the infamous backdoor devaluation by decimalisation. Frankly speaking - the UK population has been wanting so much more gravy for many years without taking the hard decisions on how to preserve values and maintain any semblance of individual responsibility for the moral of the up-coming generations -- some of whom now govern us.

[Ricardo]

We still want to live to a high-standard, despite the Empire being long gone, and the oil-boost from the North Sea has helped maintain things over recent decades, but is now over, which is why the UK-economy is in gradual decline now.

If you can't see a way out of that, and I couldn't, then you vote with your feet and get out, as I/we did.

At least the Germans seem willing to work hard, for a reasonable standard-of-living, pity the Brits don't appear to want to any more.

But good leadership might have helped, we haven't had it, and I'm not sure that Brexit will change that.