NZ confirms Silver Fern won flag referendum as final votes counted

[webfact]

NZ confirms Silver Fern won flag referendum as final votes counted

WELLINGTON: -- New Zealand has confirmed that the black, white and blue silver fern design won a referendum to become a possible new flag, after the final votes were counted.

A second referendum will be held in March to decide whether to adopt the new flag or keep the current one.

The design was named as a preliminary winner on Friday but this final tally factors in late and overseas votes.

A similar design in red and blue came in a close second.

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35090641


-- BBC 2015-12-15

[Rocceao]

Good on you NZ looks like you have finally grown up and have a sence of self worth and for having the leadership and maturity in removing the union jack.

Too bad and a shame Australia can't say the same about itself.

[khwaibah]

Good on you NZ looks like you have finally grown up and have a sence of self worth and for having the leadership and maturity in removing the union jack.

Too bad and a shame Australia can't say the same about itself.

Key word is "POSSIBLE" From BBC. "A second referendum will be held in March to decide whether to adopt the new flag or keep the current one."

No back slapping yet.

[LostTourist]

Good on you NZ looks like you have finally grown up and have a sence of self worth and for having the leadership and maturity in removing the union jack.

Too bad and a shame Australia can't say the same about itself.

Key word is "POSSIBLE" From BBC. "A second referendum will be held in March to decide whether to adopt the new flag or keep the current one."

No back slapping yet.

Its a lot further than Australia has

Edited December 15, 2015 by LostTourist

[evadgib]

Removing the UJ is neither here or there, but a blue or black background to their new flag would be better on the eye than the current suggestion which appears to have been cut-and-shut rather badly.

HTH

Edited December 15, 2015 by evadgib

[Gsxrnz]

All the submitted designs were utter rubbish and the winning design is nothing more than a corporate logo that quite frankly I would be embarrassed to see representing my country. In ten years time it will look old fashioned and outdated, just like all trendy logos do.

I'm picking that when the referendum is held to choose this design or stay with the original flag, the vote will be to retain the status quo.

Anyway, it's just the PM (John Keys) wanting to leave his mark on the country as being remembered as the Prime Minister that changed the flag. He's the one that has been pushing the idea and wasted millions of dollars in this whole referendum process. And while I do agree with most of his politics, his ego is somewhat large.

That flag has been fought and died under by many Kiwis over the centuries. It's been raised at many a sporting event, and we've all grown up with it. It's our history and there has been no political, geographic, or social change that would make it necessary to even consider changing the flag.

We aren't and don't want to be a republic. OK, if we ever do become a republic then that's a reason to consider a flag change.

We have no beef with England and the Union Jack is part of our history, it should be retained in any new flag.

But all the very vocal left wing, wish-washy, namby-pamby, tree hugging, let your kids run riot but don't smack them, hemp-suit wearing, the world owes me a living, socialist morons that seem to make more noise than they should be entitled to do, want a wishy-washy corporate logo as our Nation's flag.

Bunch of Wayne Kerrs.

[evadgib]

How about sticking a fern above one corner and a kiwi in the other?

[Katipo]

I'm one Kiwi who doesn't mind the proposed change. I don't dislike the existing flag, but explaining it to my friends abroad is a chore. The stars of the southern cross acknowledge our past, while the silver fern embraces the now and future...... and I am most definitely not an avid sports fan, so my motivations don't lie there.

I want something truly unique to NZ, not a variation on a theme. I guess that's how Canada felt back in the day.

As for our soldiers fighting under the flag. They would have fought just the same whatever the design was. They were fighting for beliefs and ideals (and a desire for adventure), things which no flag can dictate.

I think every NZ'er can identify with the silver fern, but not every New Zealander (and certainly not today) with the Union Jack.

Oh, and I love the Queen and Royal Family too.

[evadgib]

Saddened me to see this a few mins ago. I hope no one minds me posting it here:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/35098716

My previous post if any are wondering is the Coat of Arms of Rugby school for where the game takes it's name.

[mankondang]

Good on you NZ looks like you have finally grown up and have a sence of self worth and for having the leadership and maturity in removing the union jack.

Too bad and a shame Australia can't say the same about itself.

The biggest put down to the current NZ flag is that it looks too much like the current Australian flag..what self respecting Kiwi wants to be confused as being an Aussie.

The Aussies have had umteen referendums. in recent years, on both changing their flag and constitution from the present British connection. All of which have failed by huge margins, so the silent majority keeps wanting to hang on to being a Democratic Monarchy rather than a Banana Republic.

[Ulic]

As I understand it, just some political exercise as 80% of Kiwis want to retain the current flag.

[nottocus]

All the submitted designs were utter rubbish and the winning design is nothing more than a corporate logo that quite frankly I would be embarrassed to see representing my country. In ten years time it will look old fashioned and outdated, just like all trendy logos do.

I'm picking that when the referendum is held to choose this design or stay with the original flag, the vote will be to retain the status quo.

Anyway, it's just the PM (John Keys) wanting to leave his mark on the country as being remembered as the Prime Minister that changed the flag. He's the one that has been pushing the idea and wasted millions of dollars in this whole referendum process. And while I do agree with most of his politics, his ego is somewhat large.

That flag has been fought and died under by many Kiwis over the centuries. It's been raised at many a sporting event, and we've all grown up with it. It's our history and there has been no political, geographic, or social change that would make it necessary to even consider changing the flag.

We aren't and don't want to be a republic. OK, if we ever do become a republic then that's a reason to consider a flag change.

We have no beef with England and the Union Jack is part of our history, it should be retained in any new flag.

But all the very vocal left wing, wish-washy, namby-pamby, tree hugging, let your kids run riot but don't smack them, hemp-suit wearing, the world owes me a living, socialist morons that seem to make more noise than they should be entitled to do, want a wishy-washy corporate logo as our Nation's flag.

Bunch of Wayne Kerrs.

Good post mate.

[Linzz]

I'm one Kiwi who doesn't mind the proposed change. I don't dislike the existing flag, but explaining it to my friends abroad is a chore. The stars of the southern cross acknowledge our past, while the silver fern embraces the now and future...... and I am most definitely not an avid sports fan, so my motivations don't lie there.

I want something truly unique to NZ, not a variation on a theme. I guess that's how Canada felt back in the day.

As for our soldiers fighting under the flag. They would have fought just the same whatever the design was. They were fighting for beliefs and ideals (and a desire for adventure), things which no flag can dictate.

I think every NZ'er can identify with the silver fern, but not every New Zealander (and certainly not today) with the Union Jack.

Oh, and I love the Queen and Royal Family too.

A silver fern grows in other countries too. How about a kiwi? NZer's call themselves kiwis

[WitawatWatawit]

I've never felt any emotional connection to the old flag, and am a strong believer in cutting the apron strings to GB - NZ's future is as a strong and independent republic in my opinion. But this silver fern flag is god awful. Chintzy. Red peak was also awful, having nothing of significance to NZ whatsoever. It was just a splash of colour, nothing more, and had nothing symbolic of the country (at least the silver fern flag does), and when placed alongside other flags, it would just disappear in a melange of colours.

I initially wasn't all that enamoured of the koru as it has variations in other flags and therefore would not stand out nor make a "statement". But I'm slowly changing my mind - pair it with a beautifully detailed depiction of our most potent symbol, the kiwi, and we might have a flag that tells a story and doesnt blend in to the background.

[Seastallion]

It's an embarrassment that the people chose what is in reality a sports logo. If NZ hadn't just won the World Rugby Cup, things may have been different.

One day the All Blacks or Silver Ferns will lose....and that leaves the flag flying rather limply.

[thaibeachlovers]

Good on you NZ looks like you have finally grown up and have a sence of self worth and for having the leadership and maturity in removing the union jack.

Too bad and a shame Australia can't say the same about itself.

Hmmmm. The whole thing was an undemocratic farce, and hopefully the "new" flag will get the boot it so richly deserves in March. Had they had the referendum on whether people actually want a new flag, it might have been a positive vote, following which a public competition for the design could have been launched. However, having a committee selected design forced on the public has really POd most people.

Anyway, given that NZ has the British monarch as head of state really means that the country should become a republic before the flag can be changed.

[thaibeachlovers]

I've never felt any emotional connection to the old flag, and am a strong believer in cutting the apron strings to GB - NZ's future is as a strong and independent republic in my opinion. But this silver fern flag is god awful. Chintzy. Red peak was also awful, having nothing of significance to NZ whatsoever. It was just a splash of colour, nothing more, and had nothing symbolic of the country (at least the silver fern flag does), and when placed alongside other flags, it would just disappear in a melange of colours.

I initially wasn't all that enamoured of the koru as it has variations in other flags and therefore would not stand out nor make a "statement". But I'm slowly changing my mind - pair it with a beautifully detailed depiction of our most potent symbol, the kiwi, and we might have a flag that tells a story and doesnt blend in to the background.

A Kiwi on the flag- YUCH.

The enduring statement of NZ is the Southern Cross. Keep that and put whatever you like in the corner to replace the Union Jack, but let it be picked by all NZers, not a political committee.

BTW, NZ should become part of Oz. It's too small and too far away from everywhere to survive alone in the new world order. Look at the latest fiasco- the Aussies dump a pile of crims on NZ and the politicians are just embarrassed because there's not a thing they can do except bend over and take it where the sun don't shine.

[thaibeachlovers]

It's an embarrassment that the people chose what is in reality a sports logo. If NZ hadn't just won the World Rugby Cup, things may have been different.

One day the All Blacks or Silver Ferns will lose....and that leaves the flag flying rather limply.

You said what I think. NZ is about more than a bunch of professional sportsmen, and more and more people don't give a monkey's about the All Blacks anyway. I gave up on them when they went professional.

BTW I don't think many actually chose it, as not many voted and I'm sure many spoiled their voting papers in a protest. I'm waiting for March to say NYET to the whole farce- what a waste of 26 million bucks.

[Katipo]

I'm one Kiwi who doesn't mind the proposed change. I don't dislike the existing flag, but explaining it to my friends abroad is a chore. The stars of the southern cross acknowledge our past, while the silver fern embraces the now and future...... and I am most definitely not an avid sports fan, so my motivations don't lie there.

I want something truly unique to NZ, not a variation on a theme. I guess that's how Canada felt back in the day.

As for our soldiers fighting under the flag. They would have fought just the same whatever the design was. They were fighting for beliefs and ideals (and a desire for adventure), things which no flag can dictate.

I think every NZ'er can identify with the silver fern, but not every New Zealander (and certainly not today) with the Union Jack.

Oh, and I love the Queen and Royal Family too.

A silver fern grows in other countries too. How about a kiwi? NZer's call themselves kiwis

Are you sure about that? I couldn't find any reference to the exact species (Cyathea dealbata) being indigenous to any other country.

[Linzz]

I didn't research it so literally you could be right. What I meant was many species of similar ferns grow in many countries and can you really tell that Cyathea dealbata which is distributed into other countries anyway is exactly what is shown on the rather abstract images represented on the new flags? Hard to get confused with a visual image of a kiwi though, unless people are talking about kiwifruit but it's because of that appropriation that the idea of a kiwi bird was not represented which I think is regrettable.

[thaibeachlovers]

I didn't research it so literally you could be right. What I meant was many species of similar ferns grow in many countries and can you really tell that Cyathea dealbata which is distributed into other countries anyway is exactly what is shown on the rather abstract images represented on the new flags? Hard to get confused with a visual image of a kiwi though, unless people are talking about kiwifruit but it's because of that appropriation that the idea of a kiwi bird was not represented which I think is regrettable.

A kiwi on the flag- please don't let it be so. I'd be embarrassed every time I saw it.

Far, far better would be to replace the union jack with the koru. The koru is well known internationally as it is the symbol of Air NZ. If it were on a black background it would satisfy those that want an element of sports on the national flag. it's also well known as an element of Maori art.

Now that would be a flag that I could be proud of, with elements of Maori culture and sport, and the Southern Cross in pride of place on the blue background.

[Linzz]

I didn't research it so literally you could be right. What I meant was many species of similar ferns grow in many countries and can you really tell that Cyathea dealbata which is distributed into other countries anyway is exactly what is shown on the rather abstract images represented on the new flags? Hard to get confused with a visual image of a kiwi though, unless people are talking about kiwifruit but it's because of that appropriation that the idea of a kiwi bird was not represented which I think is regrettable.

A kiwi on the flag- please don't let it be so. I'd be embarrassed every time I saw it.

Far, far better would be to replace the union jack with the koru. The koru is well known internationally as it is the symbol of Air NZ. If it were on a black background it would satisfy those that want an element of sports on the national flag. it's also well known as an element of Maori art.

Now that would be a flag that I could be proud of, with elements of Maori culture and sport, and the Southern Cross in pride of place on the blue background.

Well don't worry, I'm not in charge! Agree with Southern Cross but you haven't said what you have against the kiwi or why you would be embarrassed.

[thaibeachlovers]

I didn't research it so literally you could be right. What I meant was many species of similar ferns grow in many countries and can you really tell that Cyathea dealbata which is distributed into other countries anyway is exactly what is shown on the rather abstract images represented on the new flags? Hard to get confused with a visual image of a kiwi though, unless people are talking about kiwifruit but it's because of that appropriation that the idea of a kiwi bird was not represented which I think is regrettable.

A kiwi on the flag- please don't let it be so. I'd be embarrassed every time I saw it.

Far, far better would be to replace the union jack with the koru. The koru is well known internationally as it is the symbol of Air NZ. If it were on a black background it would satisfy those that want an element of sports on the national flag. it's also well known as an element of Maori art.

Now that would be a flag that I could be proud of, with elements of Maori culture and sport, and the Southern Cross in pride of place on the blue background.

Well don't worry, I'm not in charge! Agree with Southern Cross but you haven't said what you have against the kiwi or why you would be embarrassed.

Obviously millions disagree with me, but I regard being called a Kiwi in much the same way as some posters hate being called farang in Thailand.

I have no problem with it being the symbol of NZ forces overseas, as long as it's just a symbol on a badge or a vehicle, as it was, but that doesn't extend to having it on the flag.

Just a personal thing, I guess.

[Seastallion]

Good on you NZ looks like you have finally grown up and have a sence of self worth and for having the leadership and maturity in removing the union jack.

Too bad and a shame Australia can't say the same about itself.

Key word is "POSSIBLE" From BBC. "A second referendum will be held in March to decide whether to adopt the new flag or keep the current one."

No back slapping yet.

Yes. I can't work out the logic of holding a referendum on "IF we were to change, which one do you want?" and then afterwards have another referendum, "OK, do you want to change?".

The further the date for referendum gets from the Rugby World Cup victory, the less likely this sports-inspired flag will be chosen.

Can you imagine Australia changing their flag to a wallaby or South Africa to a springbok, Argentina to a puma? Laughable.

[thaibeachlovers]

Good on you NZ looks like you have finally grown up and have a sence of self worth and for having the leadership and maturity in removing the union jack.

Too bad and a shame Australia can't say the same about itself.

Key word is "POSSIBLE" From BBC. "A second referendum will be held in March to decide whether to adopt the new flag or keep the current one."

No back slapping yet.

Yes. I can't work out the logic of holding a referendum on "IF we were to change, which one do you want?" and then afterwards have another referendum, "OK, do you want to change?".

The further the date for referendum gets from the Rugby World Cup victory, the less likely this sports-inspired flag will be chosen.

Can you imagine Australia changing their flag to a wallaby or South Africa to a springbok, Argentina to a puma? Laughable.

It is all political. Not really much about the flag per se, but more about the ambitions of a certain politician.

[starky]

I didn't research it so literally you could be right. What I meant was many species of similar ferns grow in many countries and can you really tell that Cyathea dealbata which is distributed into other countries anyway is exactly what is shown on the rather abstract images represented on the new flags? Hard to get confused with a visual image of a kiwi though, unless people are talking about kiwifruit but it's because of that appropriation that the idea of a kiwi bird was not represented which I think is regrettable.

Kiwifruit is only a kiwifruit because the yanks wouldn't buy a Chinese gooseberry during the war

[Seastallion]

Good on you NZ looks like you have finally grown up and have a sence of self worth and for having the leadership and maturity in removing the union jack.

Too bad and a shame Australia can't say the same about itself.

Key word is "POSSIBLE" From BBC. "A second referendum will be held in March to decide whether to adopt the new flag or keep the current one."

No back slapping yet.

Yes. I can't work out the logic of holding a referendum on "IF we were to change, which one do you want?" and then afterwards have another referendum, "OK, do you want to change?".

The further the date for referendum gets from the Rugby World Cup victory, the less likely this sports-inspired flag will be chosen.

Can you imagine Australia changing their flag to a wallaby or South Africa to a springbok, Argentina to a puma? Laughable.

It is all political. Not really much about the flag per se, but more about the ambitions of a certain politician.

Perhaps this should have been one of the choices?

[Linzz]

I didn't research it so literally you could be right. What I meant was many species of similar ferns grow in many countries and can you really tell that Cyathea dealbata which is distributed into other countries anyway is exactly what is shown on the rather abstract images represented on the new flags? Hard to get confused with a visual image of a kiwi though, unless people are talking about kiwifruit but it's because of that appropriation that the idea of a kiwi bird was not represented which I think is regrettable.

A kiwi on the flag- please don't let it be so. I'd be embarrassed every time I saw it.

Far, far better would be to replace the union jack with the koru. The koru is well known internationally as it is the symbol of Air NZ. If it were on a black background it would satisfy those that want an element of sports on the national flag. it's also well known as an element of Maori art.

Now that would be a flag that I could be proud of, with elements of Maori culture and sport, and the Southern Cross in pride of place on the blue background.

Well don't worry, I'm not in charge! Agree with Southern Cross but you haven't said what you have against the kiwi or why you would be embarrassed.

Obviously millions disagree with me, but I regard being called a Kiwi in much the same way as some posters hate being called farang in Thailand.

I have no problem with it being the symbol of NZ forces overseas, as long as it's just a symbol on a badge or a vehicle, as it was, but that doesn't extend to having it on the flag.

Just a personal thing, I guess.

Really? I'm a 'kiwi' and I don't mind being called one at all. If you want to draw a parallel you could say 'farang' is more equivalent to 'pakeha'

[thaibeachlovers]

A kiwi on the flag- please don't let it be so. I'd be embarrassed every time I saw it.

Far, far better would be to replace the union jack with the koru. The koru is well known internationally as it is the symbol of Air NZ. If it were on a black background it would satisfy those that want an element of sports on the national flag. it's also well known as an element of Maori art.

Now that would be a flag that I could be proud of, with elements of Maori culture and sport, and the Southern Cross in pride of place on the blue background.

Well don't worry, I'm not in charge! Agree with Southern Cross but you haven't said what you have against the kiwi or why you would be embarrassed.

Obviously millions disagree with me, but I regard being called a Kiwi in much the same way as some posters hate being called farang in Thailand.

I have no problem with it being the symbol of NZ forces overseas, as long as it's just a symbol on a badge or a vehicle, as it was, but that doesn't extend to having it on the flag.

Just a personal thing, I guess.

Really? I'm a 'kiwi' and I don't mind being called one at all. If you want to draw a parallel you could say 'farang' is more equivalent to 'pakeha'

That's why I said it's a personal thing.

I don't think I've ever been addressed as "pakeha" in my life, and I don't address people I meet overseas as "Brit/ Frenchie/ Jappo/ etc"

[Gsxrnz]

I've never felt any emotional connection to the old flag, and am a strong believer in cutting the apron strings to GB - NZ's future is as a strong and independent republic in my opinion. But this silver fern flag is god awful. Chintzy. Red peak was also awful, having nothing of significance to NZ whatsoever. It was just a splash of colour, nothing more, and had nothing symbolic of the country (at least the silver fern flag does), and when placed alongside other flags, it would just disappear in a melange of colours.

I initially wasn't all that enamoured of the koru as it has variations in other flags and therefore would not stand out nor make a "statement". But I'm slowly changing my mind - pair it with a beautifully detailed depiction of our most potent symbol, the kiwi, and we might have a flag that tells a story and doesnt blend in to the background.

A Kiwi on the flag- YUCH.

The enduring statement of NZ is the Southern Cross. Keep that and put whatever you like in the corner to replace the Union Jack, but let it be picked by all NZers, not a political committee.

BTW, NZ should become part of Oz. It's too small and too far away from everywhere to survive alone in the new world order. Look at the latest fiasco- the Aussies dump a pile of crims on NZ and the politicians are just embarrassed because there's not a thing they can do except bend over and take it where the sun don't shine.

Actually, NZ is doing very well in the new world order. Particularly when compared to Australia. The Kiwi is steaming compared to the Aussie economy, and the NZ Dollar nearly reached parity a few months ago and is still running .94 cents.

Given the continually poor performance of the Aussie economy and the kindergarten committee style politicians they have, perhaps when the NZD reaches parity this year then maybe it will be time for the two countries to combine.

I'm sure John Keys would love to be prime minister of a New Zealand that has three large islands and two smaller ones.