Russians and Americans report 'common ground' over Syria

[webfact]

Russians and Americans report 'common ground' over Syria
By Robert Hackwill



MOSCOW: -- The Russians and Americans have met in Moscow to discuss Syria, and it seems they have agreed on common ground from where they can move forward together, and will meet again in New York on Friday. They also appear to have agreed which opposition groups they will recognise at any future peace talks.

John Kerry sounded cautiously optimistic after talks with President Vladimir Putin and his foreign minister Sergei Lavrov. Lavrov, having been told by his boss to get more sleep, may be happy with the progress.

“We support the idea of reassembling in New York this Friday December 18th for the next regular meeting of the international group of support for Syria at the ministerial level and we expect that by the end of that meeting with the consent of all the members of the group, we would present the draft resolution to the UN Security Council,” he said.

John Kerry sounded slightly more flexible on the thorny question about what to do with Bashar al-Assad.

“The US and our partners are not seeking so-called regime change as it is known in Syria. What we’ve said is that we don’t believe that Assad himself has the ability to be able to lead the future Syria,” he said.

Several opposition groups have said they would fight on rather than sit down to talk with Assad, a position that could threaten any peace negotiations, but now the superpowers are involved, they may have to accept that it is time to talk.

-- (c) Copyright Euronews 2015-12-16

[webfact]

Assad can stay, for now: Kerry accepts Russian stance
By MATTHEW LEE and BRADLEY KLAPPER

MOSCOW (AP) — U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry on Tuesday accepted Russia's long-standing demand that President Bashar Assad's future be determined by his own people, as Washington and Moscow edged toward putting aside years of disagreement over how to end Syria's civil war.

"The United States and our partners are not seeking so-called regime change," Kerry told reporters in the Russian capital after meeting President Vladimir Putin. A major international conference on Syria would take place later this week in New York, Kerry announced.

Kerry reiterated the U.S. position that Assad, accused by the West of massive human rights violations and chemical weapons attacks, won't be able to steer Syria out of 4 ½ years of conflict.

But after a day of discussions with Assad's key international backer, Kerry said the focus now is "not on our differences about what can or cannot be done immediately about Assad." Rather, it is on facilitating a peace process in which "Syrians will be making decisions for the future of Syria."

Kerry's declarations crystallized the evolution in U.S. policy on Assad over the last several months, as the Islamic State group's growing influence in the Middle East has taken priority.

President Barack Obama first called on Assad to leave power in the summer of 2011, with "Assad must go," being a consistent rallying cry. Later, American officials allowed that he wouldn't have to resign on "Day One" of a transition. Now, Assad's stay could be indefinite.

Russia, by contrast, has remained consistent in its view that no foreign government could demand Assad's departure and that Syrians would have to negotiate matters of leadership among themselves. Since late September, it has been bombing terrorist and rebel targets in Syria as part of what the West says is an effort to prop up Assad's government.

Kerry said, "No one should be forced to choose between a dictator and being plagued by terrorists." However, he described the Syrian opposition's demand that Assad must leave as soon as peace talks begin as a "nonstarting position, obviously."

Earlier Tuesday in the Kremlin, Putin noted several "outstanding issues" between Russia and its former Cold War foe. Beyond Assad, these include which rebel groups in Syria should be allowed to participate in the transition process and which should be deemed terrorists, and like the Islamic State group and al-Qaida, be combatted by all.

Jordan is working on finalizing the list of terrorist v. legitimate opposition forces. Representatives of Syria's opposition themselves hope this week to finalize their negotiating team for talks with Assad's government. The U.S., Russia and others hope those talks will begin early next year.

Appearing beside Kerry, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov hailed what he described as a "big negotiating day," saying the sides advanced efforts to define what a Syrian transition process might look like.

The two countries also have split on Ukraine since Russia's annexation of the Crimea region last year and its ongoing, though diminished, support for separatist rebels in the east of the country. The U.S. has pressed severe economic sanctions against Russia in response and has insisted that Moscow's actions have left it isolated.

But Kerry sang a different tune on Tuesday.

"We don't seek to isolate Russia as a matter of policy, no," Kerry said. The sooner Russia implements a February cease-fire that calls for withdrawal of Russian forces and materiel and a release of all prisoners, he said, the sooner that "sanctions can be rolled back."

The world is better off when Russia and the U.S. work together, he added, calling Obama and Putin's current cooperation a "sign of maturity."

"There is no policy of the United States, per se, to isolate Russia," Kerry stressed.
___

Klapper reported from Washington.


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-12-16

[Jingthing]

Another sign we're in the beginning of new world war ...

[craigt3365]

Another sign we're in the beginning of new world war ...

I think this is a good thing! The US was stuck on getting rid of Assad, and for good reason. Seems they've softened that stance. Assad will be booted out anyway. Too many oppose him. The next elections will probably have international observers and include all those in opposition controlled areas. Hopefully, the people will be allowed to select their leader.

[Jingthing]

I find it hard to tell what's a good thing these days.

[Pakboong]

Another sign we're in the beginning of new world war ...

I think this is a good thing! The US was stuck on getting rid of Assad, and for good reason. Seems they've softened that stance. Assad will be booted out anyway. Too many oppose him. The next elections will probably have international observers and include all those in opposition controlled areas. Hopefully, the people will be allowed to select their leader.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/12/syrian-chemical-weapons-attack-false-flag-turkey-isis.html

“Wiretapped phone conversations reveal the process of procuring the gas at specific addresses as well as the process of procuring the rockets that would fire the capsules containing the toxic gas. However, despite such solid evidence there has been no arrest in the case. "

I don't care for Assad either but, he does have a 55% approval rating provided by the same polsters that poll everything else.

There is tons of evidence regarding this gas attack. None of it will ever appear in the mainstream news.

[sanukjim]

And the agreement is that "Each country gets half of the oil".That is after killing a lot of people while trying out their new weapons..

Edited December 16, 2015 by sanukjim

[craigt3365]

I put little value in polls in places like this. Just like the polls that are done here. Too easy to fudge the numbers and get the results you want.

It will be interesting to see what happens when things do calm down. Which hopefully they will soon....hopefully!

[craigt3365]

And the agreement is that "Each country gets half of the oil".That is after killing a lot of people while trying out their new weapons..

Neither country needs the oil. It's the gas pipeline that Europe needs....and Russia want's blocked.

But yes, seems Russia needs more practice with their new weapons.

http://www.businessinsider.com/ap-russian-cruise-missile-goes-astray-hits-russian-village-2015-12

The Tass news agency, however, reported earlier that the missile hit a three-story building in Nyonoksa, damaging its roof and several apartments and causing a fire. It also said there were no casualties.

The ministry said the missile "deviated from its designated flight path" due an unidentified problem as it was being tested by NPO Mashinostroyeniye. The company, one of Russia's leading missile manufacturers, had no immediate comment on failed launch.

[craigt3365]

Another sign we're in the beginning of new world war ...

I think this is a good thing! The US was stuck on getting rid of Assad, and for good reason. Seems they've softened that stance. Assad will be booted out anyway. Too many oppose him. The next elections will probably have international observers and include all those in opposition controlled areas. Hopefully, the people will be allowed to select their leader.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/12/syrian-chemical-weapons-attack-false-flag-turkey-isis.html

“Wiretapped phone conversations reveal the process of procuring the gas at specific addresses as well as the process of procuring the rockets that would fire the capsules containing the toxic gas. However, despite such solid evidence there has been no arrest in the case. "

I don't care for Assad either but, he does have a 55% approval rating provided by the same polsters that poll everything else.

There is tons of evidence regarding this gas attack. None of it will ever appear in the mainstream news.

That's a blog post with lots of unsubstantiated comments....and quite a few from RT. Sorry, but not reliable. Go to the overview and look at their top posts. Very controversial. Here's one:

Governments from around the world admit that they murder their own people – and then blame it on the other guy – to promote their policy goals

[Pakboong]

I don't want anyone to think I am fan of Syria or Assad because I am not. I am aware however, that Assad's last approval rating was at 55% and Obama approval rating released today is:

"The survey, conducted by the NBC/WSJ earlier in December, has revealed a 2 percentage point drop in Obama’s job approval since late October – close to his lowest ever of 40 percent, recorded on several occasions during his time in office, mostly in 2014 and 2013, according to Gallup daily tracking."

Somebody once said: "He's a son of a bitch but he is our son of a bitch."

[Srikcir]

Physical diplomacy at its best.

In the picture the American eagle (Keery's right hand) comes high and swoops down on its prey (Lavrov's right hand) to firmly grasp its victim. Pure dominance.

Lavrov indeed needs more sleep to allow such a diplomatic antic. He probably should have countered with a high-five to show equitable level of agreement.

[h90]

Another sign we're in the beginning of new world war ...

I think this is a good thing! The US was stuck on getting rid of Assad, and for good reason. Seems they've softened that stance. Assad will be booted out anyway. Too many oppose him. The next elections will probably have international observers and include all those in opposition controlled areas. Hopefully, the people will be allowed to select their leader.

what would be the good reason to get rid of Assad? Freedom for religions, women rights, education and healthcare? The only reason to get rid of Assad is to change Syria into an Islamic country

[h90]

Physical diplomacy at its best.

In the picture the American eagle (Keery's right hand) comes high and swoops down on its prey (Lavrov's right hand) to firmly grasp its victim. Pure dominance.

Lavrov indeed needs more sleep to allow such a diplomatic antic. He probably should have countered with a high-five to show equitable level of agreement.

Intellectually Lavrov is far ahead of Kerry. I guess he let Kerry just win that dominance game, as he won everything else and let Kerry believe he got a good deal.

[Tudobor]

And the agreement is that "Each country gets half of the oil".That is after killing a lot of people while trying out their new weapons..

Neither country needs the oil. It's the gas pipeline that Europe needs....and Russia want's blocked.

But yes, seems Russia needs more practice with their new weapons.

http://www.businessinsider.com/ap-russian-cruise-missile-goes-astray-hits-russian-village-2015-12

The Tass news agency, however, reported earlier that the missile hit a three-story building in Nyonoksa, damaging its roof and several apartments and causing a fire. It also said there were no casualties.

The ministry said the missile "deviated from its designated flight path" due an unidentified problem as it was being tested by NPO Mashinostroyeniye. The company, one of Russia's leading missile manufacturers, had no immediate comment on failed launch.

That is nothing unusual.

It happens during the pre production tests, even in the US and NATO countries.

[h90]

And the agreement is that "Each country gets half of the oil".That is after killing a lot of people while trying out their new weapons..

Neither country needs the oil. It's the gas pipeline that Europe needs....and Russia want's blocked.

But yes, seems Russia needs more practice with their new weapons.

http://www.businessinsider.com/ap-russian-cruise-missile-goes-astray-hits-russian-village-2015-12

The Tass news agency, however, reported earlier that the missile hit a three-story building in Nyonoksa, damaging its roof and several apartments and causing a fire. It also said there were no casualties.

The ministry said the missile "deviated from its designated flight path" due an unidentified problem as it was being tested by NPO Mashinostroyeniye. The company, one of Russia's leading missile manufacturers, had no immediate comment on failed launch.

It was a weapons test........that means nothing.

I never heard that Russia wants to block a pipeline

[Tudobor]

John Kerry sounded slightly more flexible on the thorny question about what to do with Bashar al-Assad

An example of how the US is "isolating" Russia.

The Toronto Star: http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2014/03/02/us_considers_repercussions_for_russias_incredible_act_of_aggression_in_ukraine.html

The West will ‘go to the hilt’ to isolate Russia over Ukraine: John Kerry

[retarius]

Complete capitulation to common sense by the US. The Russians Syrians and Iranians have been the only ones making sense in this whole IS fiasco. Russia getting involved was a godsend. How I wish Putin, Lavrov et al were British and could replace our Eton lead crummy chumocracy.

[craigt3365]

Another sign we're in the beginning of new world war ...

I think this is a good thing! The US was stuck on getting rid of Assad, and for good reason. Seems they've softened that stance. Assad will be booted out anyway. Too many oppose him. The next elections will probably have international observers and include all those in opposition controlled areas. Hopefully, the people will be allowed to select their leader.

what would be the good reason to get rid of Assad? Freedom for religions, women rights, education and healthcare? The only reason to get rid of Assad is to change Syria into an Islamic country

I believe Syria has been an Islamic country for a long time....Muslims, right? LOL

Assad is a brutal dictator, just like his father. Anybody who doesn't see that hasn't studied the history of Syria. He's what started this whole mess. Blame stops with the leaders. And he is/was the leader of Syria....or what's left of it now.

[h90]

Another sign we're in the beginning of new world war ...

I think this is a good thing! The US was stuck on getting rid of Assad, and for good reason. Seems they've softened that stance. Assad will be booted out anyway. Too many oppose him. The next elections will probably have international observers and include all those in opposition controlled areas. Hopefully, the people will be allowed to select their leader.

what would be the good reason to get rid of Assad? Freedom for religions, women rights, education and healthcare? The only reason to get rid of Assad is to change Syria into an Islamic country

I believe Syria has been an Islamic country for a long time....Muslims, right? LOL

Assad is a brutal dictator, just like his father. Anybody who doesn't see that hasn't studied the history of Syria. He's what started this whole mess. Blame stops with the leaders. And he is/was the leader of Syria....or what's left of it now.

I would say educate yourself. Syria is mixed religion and Assad is Alewit and Syria is secular. Yes he is brutal against the Islamists and I like that, because as Atheist I would be one of the first who get beheaded. So where many Christs, including children and women in Syria.

[Pakboong]

Another sign we're in the beginning of new world war ...

I think this is a good thing! The US was stuck on getting rid of Assad, and for good reason. Seems they've softened that stance. Assad will be booted out anyway. Too many oppose him. The next elections will probably have international observers and include all those in opposition controlled areas. Hopefully, the people will be allowed to select their leader.

what would be the good reason to get rid of Assad? Freedom for religions, women rights, education and healthcare? The only reason to get rid of Assad is to change Syria into an Islamic country

I believe Syria has been an Islamic country for a long time....Muslims, right? LOL

Assad is a brutal dictator, just like his father. Anybody who doesn't see that hasn't studied the history of Syria. He's what started this whole mess. Blame stops with the leaders. And he is/was the leader of Syria....or what's left of it now.

They do consider themselves secular even though they are predominately Sunni.

[simple1]

Another sign we're in the beginning of new world war ...

I think this is a good thing! The US was stuck on getting rid of Assad, and for good reason. Seems they've softened that stance. Assad will be booted out anyway. Too many oppose him. The next elections will probably have international observers and include all those in opposition controlled areas. Hopefully, the people will be allowed to select their leader.

what would be the good reason to get rid of Assad? Freedom for religions, women rights, education and healthcare? The only reason to get rid of Assad is to change Syria into an Islamic country

I believe Syria has been an Islamic country for a long time....Muslims, right? LOL

Assad is a brutal dictator, just like his father. Anybody who doesn't see that hasn't studied the history of Syria. He's what started this whole mess. Blame stops with the leaders. And he is/was the leader of Syria....or what's left of it now.

The updated 2012 Constitution does assert freedom of religion, equality & so on . Also includes freedom of expression, no torture and other human rights (LOL). Interesting to read Article 21 of the Constitution...

"Martyrdom for the sake of the homeland shall be a supreme value, and the State shall guarantee the families of the martyrs in accordance with the law."

[h90]

I think this is a good thing! The US was stuck on getting rid of Assad, and for good reason. Seems they've softened that stance. Assad will be booted out anyway. Too many oppose him. The next elections will probably have international observers and include all those in opposition controlled areas. Hopefully, the people will be allowed to select their leader.

what would be the good reason to get rid of Assad? Freedom for religions, women rights, education and healthcare? The only reason to get rid of Assad is to change Syria into an Islamic country

I believe Syria has been an Islamic country for a long time....Muslims, right? LOL

Assad is a brutal dictator, just like his father. Anybody who doesn't see that hasn't studied the history of Syria. He's what started this whole mess. Blame stops with the leaders. And he is/was the leader of Syria....or what's left of it now.

The updated 2012 Constitution does assert freedom of religion, equality & so on . Also includes freedom of expression, no torture and other human rights (LOL). Interesting to read Article 21 of the Constitution...

"Martyrdom for the sake of the homeland shall be a supreme value, and the State shall guarantee the families of the martyrs in accordance with the law."

yes the best country in the region, most liberal.

[chuckd]

And yet another red line no longer exists.

[khunken]

Another sign we're in the beginning of new world war ...

I think this is a good thing! The US was stuck on getting rid of Assad, and for good reason. Seems they've softened that stance. Assad will be booted out anyway. Too many oppose him. The next elections will probably have international observers and include all those in opposition controlled areas. Hopefully, the people will be allowed to select their leader.

what would be the good reason to get rid of Assad? Freedom for religions, women rights, education and healthcare? The only reason to get rid of Assad is to change Syria into an Islamic country

I believe Syria has been an Islamic country for a long time....Muslims, right? LOL

Assad is a brutal dictator, just like his father. Anybody who doesn't see that hasn't studied the history of Syria. He's what started this whole mess. Blame stops with the leaders. And he is/was the leader of Syria....or what's left of it now.

Syria is NOT an Islamic country but don't let it stop you from ypur continued propaganda against the country.

Assad didn't start the 'whole mess' as it was initially another Arab Spring anti-government protest by some small groups. It escalated when the various Islamic militias got involved, supported by the usual western suspects, Saudi & Qatar.

There has been as much brutality by the various opposition groups as by the government.

The closer the US & Russia get to broad agreement the better for Syria and the exclusion of all the Islamist militias that are supported by Saudi.

BTW why was Bahrain allowed to call in Saudi storm troupers to put down an Arab Spring uprising without a peep from the western hypocrites? A US base there is a clue.

[craigt3365]

I would say educate yourself. Syria is mixed religion and Assad is Alewit and Syria is secular. Yes he is brutal against the Islamists and I like that, because as Atheist I would be one of the first who get beheaded. So where many Christs, including children and women in Syria.

I did educate myself. Thus my post:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Syria

Of the Syrian population, 74%^[1] were Sunnis (including Sufis^[2]), whereas 13%^[1] were Shias (including 8.0% Alawites from which about 2% are called Mershdis and they are the followers of Sulayman al-Murshid, 3% Twelvers , or 1% Ismailis ), 3%^[1] were Druze, while the remaining 10%^[1] were Christians.

I'd say this is a majority Islam/Muslin country. Clost to 90%.

And of course there's this:

Although the faiths theoretically enjoy equal legal status, to some extent Islam is favored. Despite guarantees of religious freedom, some observers maintain that the conditions of the non-Muslim minorities have been steadily deteriorating, especially since the June 1967 war. An instance of this deterioration was the nationalization of over 300 Christian schools, together with approximately 75 private Muslim schools, in the autumn of 1967. Since the early 1960s, heavy emigration of Christians has been noted; in fact, some authorities state that at least 50 percent of the 600,000 people who left during the decade ending in 1968 were Christians. In recent decades, however, emigration was slow until the Syrian Civil War.

Secular? Maybe not so much....

[craigt3365]

Syria is NOT an Islamic country but don't let it stop you from ypur continued propaganda against the country.

Assad didn't start the 'whole mess' as it was initially another Arab Spring anti-government protest by some small groups. It escalated when the various Islamic militias got involved, supported by the usual western suspects, Saudi & Qatar.

There has been as much brutality by the various opposition groups as by the government.

The closer the US & Russia get to broad agreement the better for Syria and the exclusion of all the Islamist militias that are supported by Saudi.

BTW why was Bahrain allowed to call in Saudi storm troupers to put down an Arab Spring uprising without a peep from the western hypocrites? A US base there is a clue.

I'm confused. Islam is a religion. Followed by those calling themselves muslims. Right? With 90% of the population being followers of some sort of branch of Islam, I'd kinda say it is an Islamic country!

Yes, Assad did start this. He was the spark for the Arab Spring uprising. Can't blame it on the west, though many would like to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Civil_War

The unrest began in the early spring of 2011 within the context of Arab Spring protests, with nationwide protests against President Bashar al-Assad's government, whose forces responded with violent crackdowns. The conflict gradually morphed from prominent protests to an armed rebellion after months of military sieges.^[81]

Bahrain is a bit off topic....

[khunken]

Syria is NOT an Islamic country but don't let it stop you from ypur continued propaganda against the country.

Assad didn't start the 'whole mess' as it was initially another Arab Spring anti-government protest by some small groups. It escalated when the various Islamic militias got involved, supported by the usual western suspects, Saudi & Qatar.

There has been as much brutality by the various opposition groups as by the government.

The closer the US & Russia get to broad agreement the better for Syria and the exclusion of all the Islamist militias that are supported by Saudi.

BTW why was Bahrain allowed to call in Saudi storm troupers to put down an Arab Spring uprising without a peep from the western hypocrites? A US base there is a clue.

I'm confused. Islam is a religion. Followed by those calling themselves muslims. Right? With 90% of the population being followers of some sort of branch of Islam, I'd kinda say it is an Islamic country!

Yes, Assad did start this. He was the spark for the Arab Spring uprising. Can't blame it on the west, though many would like to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Civil_War

The unrest began in the early spring of 2011 within the context of Arab Spring protests, with nationwide protests against President Bashar al-Assad's government, whose forces responded with violent crackdowns. The conflict gradually morphed from prominent protests to an armed rebellion after months of military sieges.^[81]

Bahrain is a bit off topic....

Yes you are confused - Syria is a Muslim majority country but not an Islamic country. Just as Malaysia, Indonesia, Nigeria, Morocco and others are Muslim (majority) countries but not defined or claimed as Islamic. Islamic countries are those that declare themselves as such and usually have a 100% Muslim native population.

Again, NO, Assad did not start anything - why continue that lie? I've already described how the crisis started which roughly corresponds with your Wiki post, leaving out the bias which permeates Wikipedia. I've never claimed that the western powers started it but they sure as hell exacerbated it by supporting the various militias, including ISIS & Al-Nusra - some directly & some indirectly.

Bahrain is an example of hypocrisy by the west as it mirrors the Syrian crisis - Assad bad, Al Khalifah good but both brutal dictatorships.

[simple1]

what would be the good reason to get rid of Assad? Freedom for religions, women rights, education and healthcare? The only reason to get rid of Assad is to change Syria into an Islamic country

I believe Syria has been an Islamic country for a long time....Muslims, right? LOL

Assad is a brutal dictator, just like his father. Anybody who doesn't see that hasn't studied the history of Syria. He's what started this whole mess. Blame stops with the leaders. And he is/was the leader of Syria....or what's left of it now.

The updated 2012 Constitution does assert freedom of religion, equality & so on . Also includes freedom of expression, no torture and other human rights (LOL). Interesting to read Article 21 of the Constitution...

"Martyrdom for the sake of the homeland shall be a supreme value, and the State shall guarantee the families of the martyrs in accordance with the law."

yes the best country in the region, most liberal.

Whilst the Syrian 2012 Constitution does enshrine freedom of expression, no torture and other human rights the reality is very different. It's a dictatorship going back years with an appalling human rights record that has continued without respite under Bashar. Whilst Syria does not fit the classic definition of an Islamist country, the judicial system accords with Sharia law, but without the extremes such as KSA.

For those who keep insisting Assad isn’t that bad …

Syria Has a Massive Rape Crisis

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/04/syria-has-a-massive-rape-crisis/274583/

Edited December 16, 2015 by simple1

[Andreas2]

Kerry accepts Russian stance. Surprise, surprise, it's about time.