UK Residents in Thailand - The harsh truth about the NHS service

[Mobi]

If you need a major operation and think you can jump on a plane and get free treatment back in the UK - think again.

If you are visiting the Uk and you have a heart attack and you think they will take care of you for free - think again.

In today's Telegraph, there is a story of a British woman in her 80's who worked as a nurse at an NHS hospital for over 50 years, and paid tax and NHI contributions all her working life. She had a heart attack in the UK on a brief trip from the USA to bury her sister.

She was rushed to the very same hospital she had worked at for over 50 years, and when she was discharged, she was given a bill for £5,000. as she was no longer resident in the UK. She had moved to the USA a year ago to be with her daughters and all told, she had lived in the UK for 66 years.

The hospital stated that they were legally bound to charge her and there were no exceptions.

I dare say that if you manage to convince them you are a resident and can produce a current UK GP registration you MAY get away with it, but it is clear that the days of fudging your way through the NHS bureaucracy and getting free treatment seem to be numbered.

They will never refuse to treat you and they may never succeed in collecting the money, but charge you they will. The woman flew back without paying and is now worried about returning again. It's probably only a matter of time before they get wise and seize your passport until you pay.

The full story can be found at: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/12057205/British-nurse-stunned-by-5000-NHS-bill.html

[delgarcon]

Yes, it's appalling the way elderly ex pats are treated by the UK government. We don't vote so we're a great target when it comes to saving money. We don't get annual pension increases either, but I suppose we're lucky to get anything. Having worked in France for about 8 years, I get part of my pension (300 euro per month) from France along with the increases and for 80 euro per month get the benefit of French social security health cover worldwide.

We in GB regularly knock the French, but at least they look after their own (and people like me as well).

[Jip99]

Disgraceful.

[stoneyboy]

The continued decline of a once great nation,despicable beyond belief how they can shun their own only to allow thousands of immigrants the same very rights they are denying those that have kept the cogs of social security turning for so long.

RIP Great Britain.

Edited December 18, 2015 by stoneyboy

[partington]

A change made just in April this year, but that's what you get for electing a Conservative government. I'm inclined to think that people get what they deserve when voting for that lot.

I don't have to worry, I've got enough to supply my health care needs, so screw people who haven't : it's the Tory way!

[billd766]

A change made just in April this year, but that's what you get for electing a Conservative government. I'm inclined to think that people get what they deserve when voting for that lot.

I don't have to worry, I've got enough to supply my health care needs, so screw people who haven't : it's the Tory way!

Actually over 4,000,000 in the UK did NOT vote Tory but voted UKIP. I voted for UKIP from Thailand using a proxy voter quite legally but sadly the electoral system in the UK only gave the UKIP one parliamentary seat.

IMHO I think that at the next general election, The Labour party if they are still under Jeremy Corbyn will not win, the Tories who will not be under Big Dave Cameron will lose a lot of seats, the Lib/Dems under Tim Fallon (I had to look who it was on Wikipedia) shot their bolt last time probably don't stand much chance either. The SNP under Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond probably won't do that much out of Scotland.

To me that leaves Nigel Farage with UKIP, the Green Party under Natalie Bennett and a hodgepodge of other parties with no clear ideas or directions to fight the Tories.

For myself I truly believe that if UKIP don't win they will be a very strong opposition party to the winners.

Then perhaps things may start to get better for us expats and for the UK as a whole.

[Jip99]

A change made just in April this year, but that's what you get for electing a Conservative government. I'm inclined to think that people get what they deserve when voting for that lot.

I don't have to worry, I've got enough to supply my health care needs, so screw people who haven't : it's the Tory way!

Actually over 4,000,000 in the UK did NOT vote Tory but voted UKIP. I voted for UKIP from Thailand using a proxy voter quite legally but sadly the electoral system in the UK only gave the UKIP one parliamentary seat.

IMHO I think that at the next general election, The Labour party if they are still under Jeremy Corbyn will not win, the Tories who will not be under Big Dave Cameron will lose a lot of seats, the Lib/Dems under Tim Fallon (I had to look who it was on Wikipedia) shot their bolt last time probably don't stand much chance either. The SNP under Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond probably won't do that much out of Scotland.

To me that leaves Nigel Farage with UKIP, the Green Party under Natalie Bennett and a hodgepodge of other parties with no clear ideas or directions to fight the Tories.

For myself I truly believe that if UKIP don't win they will be a very strong opposition party to the winners.

Then perhaps things may start to get better for us expats and for the UK as a whole.

You can't be much of an opposition with one seat - and I don't see the Torys bringing in proportional representation during the current parliament.

[GuestHouse]

First observation - she was given the treatment she needed regardless of who she was, where she was from or her ability to pay.

Second observation - the bill is not enforceable to the US where she lives

Third observation - she's a resident of the US, why does she not have travel insurance to come to the UK?

If she had travel insurance, or indeed if her health insurance in the US covers her for travel, they pick up the bill for the risk they received payment for and it is therefore right and proper for the NHS to claim the payment.

Expats in Thailand ought perhaps pay more attention to who will pay their medical bills if they face a similar medical emergency in Thailand.

British expats in Thailand who say they will never set foot back in the UK need not pay any attention to what the NHS does, they're never going to use its services (or so they claim).

[GuestHouse]

Actually over 4,000,000 in the UK did NOT vote Tory but voted UKIP. I voted for UKIP from Thailand using a proxy voter quite legally but sadly the electoral system in the UK only gave the UKIP one parliamentary seat.

So what electoral system do you want to see, and which part of 'British' society do you think it would most benefit..... think very carefully before you answer... and very cautious in what you wish for.

[huawei]

A change made just in April this year, but that's what you get for electing a Conservative government. I'm inclined to think that people get what they deserve when voting for that lot.

I don't have to worry, I've got enough to supply my health care needs, so screw people who haven't : it's the Tory way!

Yet it was labour who brought in uni fees. Children born in the uk who were not resident but wanted to go back for uni were treated as overseas students.

Non residents are going to be hammered by both parties..

[MaeJoMTB]

Lucky for me I've never been outside the EU.

Wonder how they found out she had been living in the USA?

Edited December 18, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[huawei]

First observation - she was given the treatment she needed regardless of who she was, where she was from or her ability to pay.

Second observation - the bill is not enforceable to the US where she lives

Third observation - she's a resident of the US, why does she not have travel insurance to come to the UK?

If she had travel insurance, or indeed if her health insurance in the US covers her for travel, they pick up the bill for the risk they received payment for and it is therefore right and proper for the NHS to claim the payment.

Expats in Thailand ought perhaps pay more attention to who will pay their medical bills if they face a similar medical emergency in Thailand.

British expats in Thailand who say they will never set foot back in the UK need not pay any attention to what the NHS does, they're never going to use its services (or so they claim).

Couldn't agree more. Someone I know living a very unhealthy life style had an enormous hospital bill here in Thailand which could not be paid..eventually was discharged...no payment.

[Mobi]

Lucky for me I've never been outside the EU.

Wonder how they found out she had been living in the USA?

They probably knew her personally as she had been a nurse there for fifty years....

Anyway, as I said, the acid test these days is whether you are registered with a UK GP? It is very easy to check.

[Mobi]

First observation - she was given the treatment she needed regardless of who she was, where she was from or her ability to pay.

Second observation - the bill is not enforceable to the US where she lives

Third observation - she's a resident of the US, why does she not have travel insurance to come to the UK?

If she had travel insurance, or indeed if her health insurance in the US covers her for travel, they pick up the bill for the risk they received payment for and it is therefore right and proper for the NHS to claim the payment.

Expats in Thailand ought perhaps pay more attention to who will pay their medical bills if they face a similar medical emergency in Thailand.

British expats in Thailand who say they will never set foot back in the UK need not pay any attention to what the NHS does, they're never going to use its services (or so they claim).

I'd be amazed if anyone in their 80's could get travel insurance ... but maybe I'm wrong on this. Even if you could, I bet it has very high deductibles or exclusions - like heart operations.

She actually said in the Telegraph article that she had to fly over in a rush due to the sudden death of her sister and didn't have time to arrange insurance - yes again I would imagine you might have to shop around for weeks to find an insurance carrier who would accept you.

The fact that I would have to pay wouldn't deter me from going to the UK for a major operation - whether or not I had the money to pay.... but it's not a very satisfactory situation. I personally paid tax and National insurance for over forty years. The amount of tax I paid is probably more than the average person earns in a lifetime .... but we are all treated equally under the law...

The crazy thing is that if I wanted to, I could go back to the UK, declare my intention to stay, stay there about 3 months with relatives, get myself registered with a GP and then camp outside the social services and declare myself homeless.

Or I could rent a cheap room and then tell the social services I was broke and they would have to pay my rent. All the largesse of the UK social services would then be at my disposal, free of charge.

Assuming I didn't have a heart attack in the meantime....but even if I did, I would have no money to pay the bill.

Wouldn't they be better off letting me make my trip, have my operation and b..ger off? That way I wouldn't be a drain on their resources.

I know... just dreaming.

[MrTee]

A change made just in April this year, but that's what you get for electing a Conservative government. I'm inclined to think that people get what they deserve when voting for that lot.

I don't have to worry, I've got enough to supply my health care needs, so screw people who haven't : it's the Tory way!

Actually over 4,000,000 in the UK did NOT vote Tory but voted UKIP. I voted for UKIP from Thailand using a proxy voter quite legally but sadly the electoral system in the UK only gave the UKIP one parliamentary seat.

IMHO I think that at the next general election, The Labour party if they are still under Jeremy Corbyn will not win, the Tories who will not be under Big Dave Cameron will lose a lot of seats, the Lib/Dems under Tim Fallon (I had to look who it was on Wikipedia) shot their bolt last time probably don't stand much chance either. The SNP under Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond probably won't do that much out of Scotland.

To me that leaves Nigel Farage with UKIP, the Green Party under Natalie Bennett and a hodgepodge of other parties with no clear ideas or directions to fight the Tories.

For myself I truly believe that if UKIP don't win they will be a very strong opposition party to the winners.

Then perhaps things may start to get better for us expats and for the UK as a whole.

Get a grip man, UKIP want to privatise the NHS - even UK residents will have to pay

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/leaked-documents-show-ukip-leaders-approve-nhs-privatisation-once-it-becomes-more-acceptable-to-the-9993050.html

[jacky54]

Pity the poor woman was not a Syrian 'refugee', would have been free then.

[Suradit69]

UK residents in Thailand

How can someone be a UK resident if he's living in Thailand?

Did you mean a UK citizen resident in Thailand?

It must be a real challenge for citizens of nanny states to live in a world where you have to pay for things yourself.

Imagine you'll be one of those expats who stiffs a Thai hospital, which means the rest of us have to pay more to cover the costs of deadbeats.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Suradit69

[yankee99]

She should have stiffed a USA hospital because they cant seize your passport because you cant pay a debt

[chiang mai]

What you perhaps missed is that she was charged at the rate of 150% of NHS costs, as would any other person in her position be. So whereas immigrants can pay 200 Pounds for government insurance against these costs, indeed they are required to buy such a policy, UK expats are not allowed similar and even worse are seen as a resource to profit from.

It is the scandal of the century and totally outrageous.

[crazydrummerpauly]

Lucky for me I've never been outside the EU.

Wonder how they found out she had been living in the USA?

They probably knew her personally as she had been a nurse there for fifty years....

Anyway, as I said, the acid test these days is whether you are registered with a UK GP? It is very easy to check.

No it is not. I have personally been for a heart-scan at Papworth in the UK recently, and it is was my PASSPORT that determined RESIDENCY. NB everybody - this ruling has little to do with how many National Insurance payments you made in life, and nothing to do with whether you've 'fought for my country' or not - it is ALL to do with RESIDENCY. Being registered with a GP will not help on its own. By the way, i know from personal and anecdotal experience that many GPs still don't know about this issue - amazing considering that it was first introduced by a LABOUR government under Tony Blair - actually steered through parliament by Stephen BYERS who was Health Secretary at the time - so all comments about the 'nasty tories' are ridiculous. This issue has a long history therefore and any British ex-pats who are only just discovering it must have had their heads in the sand for a very long time, NB: there are different (softer) rules for UK State Pensioners - ie in receipt of a State Pension - providing you have lived in the UK for a minimum of 10 years prior to needing treatment. However, it gets complicated if you need treatment for 'prior conditions', just like with all medical insurance in the private sector. This is one of the best things you can read on the topic - https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/healthcare/help-with-health-costs/nhs-charges-for-people-from-abroad/

[misterphil]

Just don't talk and don't speak any English. They will think your one of the many <deleted> immigrants that live there for free and will treat you for free.

The lady in questions tax money and NI contributions are probably paying for all the <deleted> immigrants free welfare now.

[crazydrummerpauly]

Lucky for me I've never been outside the EU.

Wonder how they found out she had been living in the USA?

NB : it is all based on examining PASSPORTS. You now have to present them for hospital procedures in the UK - i have done this recently. So it's simple - ah madam you landed in the US in 2010 (for example) and your passport shows no returns to the UK until now (2015), and only short trips to (say) Mexico and Canada in the intervening 5 years. Conclusion : you live in the US !

[evadgib]

It's probably only a matter of time before they get wise and seize your passport until you pay.

The above quote from the OP will be knocked into a cocked hat by a challenge under article 8 of the Human Rights Act.

(the right to family life)

Edited December 18, 2015 by evadgib

[chiang mai]

Lucky for me I've never been outside the EU.

Wonder how they found out she had been living in the USA?

They probably knew her personally as she had been a nurse there for fifty years....

Anyway, as I said, the acid test these days is whether you are registered with a UK GP? It is very easy to check.

No it is not. I have personally been for a heart-scan at Papworth in the UK recently, and it is was my PASSPORT that determined RESIDENCY. NB everybody - this ruling has little to do with how many National Insurance payments you made in life, and nothing to do with whether you've 'fought for my country' or not - it is ALL to do with RESIDENCY. Being registered with a GP will not help on its own. By the way, i know from personal and anecdotal experience that many GPs still don't know about this issue - amazing considering that it was first introduced by a LABOUR government under Tony Blair - actually steered through parliament by Stephen BYERS who was Health Secretary at the time - so all comments about the 'nasty tories' are ridiculous. This issue has a long history therefore and any British ex-pats who are only just discovering it must have had their heads in the sand for a very long time, NB: there are different (softer) rules for UK State Pensioners - ie in receipt of a State Pension - providing you have lived in the UK for a minimum of 10 years prior to needing treatment. However, it gets complicated if you need treatment for 'prior conditions', just like with all medical insurance in the private sector. This is one of the best things you can read on the topic - https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/healthcare/help-with-health-costs/nhs-charges-for-people-from-abroad/

I would be delighted to be proved wrong on this but I believe the clause regarding expat pensioners and ten years continuous prior residency was quietly dropped.

Can anyone confirm either way?

[OJAS]

Imagine you'll be one of those expats who stiffs a Thai hospital, which means the rest of us have to pay more to cover the costs of deadbeats.

She should have stiffed a USA hospital because they cant seize your passport because you cant pay a debt

What is "stiffing" a Thai or a USA hospital supposed to mean? Somehow inducing a state of rigor mortis into a hospital, maybe?? If so, how does one go about achieving this questionable end???

Sounds very much to me an example of "Americanglish" like "pan handler" which, for years I thought was referring a beggar who was firmly clutching a frying pan in one of his hands while on the "job"!

Edited December 18, 2015 by OJAS

[crazydrummerpauly]

Ironically, you can get completely free treatment if you get jailed or go nuts. I plan to run down the high street stark-ballak-naked and steal the till from Poundland

[12DrinkMore]

Lucky for me I've never been outside the EU.

Wonder how they found out she had been living in the USA?

NB : it is all based on examining PASSPORTS. You now have to present them for hospital procedures in the UK - i have done this recently. So it's simple - ah madam you landed in the US in 2010 (for example) and your passport shows no returns to the UK until now (2015), and only short trips to (say) Mexico and Canada in the intervening 5 years. Conclusion : you live in the US !

It is not a legal requirement to have a passport.

Maybe I could flash my UK driving license?

[flossie35]

The new rules were introduced in April 2015 by the NASTY PARTY (otherwise known as the conservatives). I don't see what Tony Blair has to do with it. The NHS is not free - we pay for it through our taxes. I am still paying. If I need hospital treartment in the UK it means I'm paying twice. I was charged over 4000GBP for treatment to a bleeding gastric ulcer in the UK earlier this year; I am in receipt of a UK state pension, and I lived in the UK for 70 years before relocating to Thailand.

[chiang mai]

The new rules were introduced in April 2015 by the NASTY PARTY (otherwise known as the conservatives). I don't see what Tony Blair has to do with it. The NHS is not free - we pay for it through our taxes. I am still paying. If I need hospital treartment in the UK it means I'm paying twice. I was charged over 4000GBP for treatment to a bleeding gastric ulcer in the UK earlier this year; I am in receipt of a UK state pension, and I lived in the UK for 70 years before relocating to Thailand.

I'm sorry to hear that, it kinda looks as though you've just confirmed the ten prior year rule was indeed dropped.

Was that a pre-existing condition that needed treatment during a holiday/visit?

EDIT to add: Here's a UK government web site dated 15 May 2015 which describes NHS charging of non-residents, it also includes the forms the NHS should use and the questions they will ask. I don't see anything in there that talks about expat pensioners with ten years prior residency.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-on-overseas-visitors-hospital-charging-regulations

Edited December 18, 2015 by chiang mai

[flossie35]

The ulcer was not a pre-condition; this was emergency treatment - the only sort of NHS treatment previously available to non-residents. The exemption for formerly-resident pensioners appears not to exist. The only exemption now, as far as I recall, is for people resident overseas because of public employment