Large haul of tusks, pangolin scales expected to lead to arrests

[cumgranosalum]

A month for DNA? Things have really gone down hill since Koh Tao. Last year were knocking out DNA test in about 6 hours.

Yea, as they must gather samples from the tusks and also from cadavers from Nigeria to compare with, it's not like they have an elephant DNA database.

If you have a sample and a suspect to compare too then it will be much quicker!

It is not like they need to match it to an individual elephant like in human crime where they want to match an individual to committing a crime, although that may be possible if they have DNA samples of poached elephants...

All that is really probably needed is the type. "West African elephant DNA", as opposed to Thai or Myanmar or Indian type elephant DNA.

Yes...but you have to extract the DNA and analyse it before you can do that....you seem to be linking it to some imagined shortcut in the process.

[louse1953]

Laos seems to have a big demand for ivory

Laos to China,follow the money.

[canuckamuck]

China must be the limpest nation on Earth.

Edited December 19, 2015 by canuckamuck

[cumgranosalum]

I despair for the future of our planet. Mankind has caused and is causing the extinction of countless species. The damage we do is evil and is permanent. It is humans who should be exterminated if our world is to continue as the beautiful place it once was. Elephants, tigers, turtles, rhinos....the list is endless that humanity is quickly destroying. We pollute our seas, our land, our air. Australia is destroying its Great Barrier Reef, China is poisoning itself, Indonesia is smoking out the world every year. Climate change is really occurring and all we do is fart around [no pun intended] and continue to poison and pollute and exterminate the only world we will ever have. The sooner we get another ebola/sars/AIDS/ malaria that wipes us out - the better.

Mankind is the ONLY species on Earth that can be described as EVIL.

The planet has survived for billions of years and will continue to do so. Various species die at the rate of 200 to 2000 per year (various theories). Don't despair for the planet. It will be fine when the humans are gone.

I take it you realise that you are a human too?

The planet has been through many stages - including being little more than a hot boiled rock........they even think places like Mars or Venus may have been possible candidates for life in some bygone trillennia.

however the planet may exist, but it won't return to some blue paradise floating through space....it my be just like Venus or Mars a lifeless rock floating round the sun

The problem is we need to realise that although man has touched every part of the planet, we still need those eco-systems to get by just for a relatively short time - for the next few centuries.

This is possible if we understand how these things work. When you kill a "keystone" species or an apex predator, you are not just endangering that animal and it's fellow species, you are damaging the whole eco-system. We rely on this for things such as weather, water, oxygen. Until these stupid idiots who think that animal parts will give them health/sex/power are educated otherwise they will continue to exploit poorer countries like Kenya that are rich in primary sources.

Edited December 19, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[cumgranosalum]

One day we will be the only animal left.

That comment would indicate you have no understanding of the problem at all

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

A couple years ago i saw a few documentaries on various illegal animal tardes. At least 2 episodes focused on Thailand and there was a hidden camera guy that would go to various business and try and buy goods etc (sorry I can't remember the name of the show).

Long story short, the investigator would uncover the kingpins behind these crimes, but to his frustration, the police would never charge the Thai business owners (kingpins) involved.

Nice Thailand will get involved in the Kenya end of things but will never go after the Thai's because they usually hold a position of influence.

[Jonathon]

It doesn't seem that Kenya has any capability to interdict these shipments.

Or maybe it's a lack of motivation. More enforcement needs to be done outbound if this illilcit trade is ever going to be stopped.

Public hanging of the perpetrators is the only enforcement that has a hope of working.

[KamalaRider]

A month for DNA? Things have really gone down hill since Koh Tao. Last year were knocking out DNA test in about 6 hours.

Yea, as they must gather samples from the tusks and also from cadavers from Nigeria to compare with, it's not like they have an elephant DNA database.

If you have a sample and a suspect to compare too then it will be much quicker!

Actually, they have an elephant, Rhino and other endangered species DNA database, under WWF fund, if I remember correctly and they have an office here in Thailand as well.

But the post, if I read correctly, was based on irony.

[hobobo]

281 tusks means about 140 elephants were killed for no reason except for greed.

Those that buy ivory carvings and such are just as guilty as those who do the killing.

I've never heard of an elephant with three tusks, but many times with just one (the other either broken off or stunted). So it must be at least 141 elephants, but more likely 150 or more. May they all rest in eternal peace, and greedy bastard poachers fry in hell

[arithai12]

281 tusks means about 140 elephants were killed for no reason except for greed.

Those that buy ivory carvings and such are just as guilty as those who do the killing.

Does not 100% mean they killed the elephants.

You don't appear to understand that the whole business is driven by a market - so those who participate in the market, participate in the killing.

I think RayHaas wanted to point out that some of the tusks could come from elephants who died of natural causes. At least as a possibility, he is correct. I don't know what are the rules with ivory in this case.

But you are quite right about the fact that this shame is market-driven. Kudos to those to manage to intercept the shipment, and hopefully some justice will be done.

[Trentham]

I despair for the future of our planet. Mankind has caused and is causing the extinction of countless species. The damage we do is evil and is permanent. It is humans who should be exterminated if our world is to continue as the beautiful place it once was. Elephants, tigers, turtles, rhinos....the list is endless that humanity is quickly destroying. We pollute our seas, our land, our air. Australia is destroying its Great Barrier Reef, China is poisoning itself, Indonesia is smoking out the world every year. Climate change is really occurring and all we do is fart around [no pun intended] and continue to poison and pollute and exterminate the only world we will ever have. The sooner we get another ebola/sars/AIDS/ malaria that wipes us out - the better.

Mankind is the ONLY species on Earth that can be described as EVIL.

The planet has survived for billions of years and will continue to do so. Various species die at the rate of 200 to 2000 per year (various theories). Don't despair for the planet. It will be fine when the humans are gone.

You are correct however I am a sentimental old bugger and would like to see some of these magnificent species and habitats hang around a bit longer and not have man hasten their demise due to his greed. It is possible that if man continues on his merry global warming, polluting, fouling and nuclear spree we may render our planet uninhabitable for anything at all.

Discounting collisions with asteroids etc. natural extinctions take millennia to occur. Man causes them to happen in less than a century if not quicker.

However thank you for your attempt to cheer me up.

[Brer Fox]

Everyone seems to be wondering where the tusks and scales were intended for and China seems to get the popular vote. My question is where do readers think these particular tusks and scales are likely to end up now this bust has been made. Surely not "return to sender".

[cancan70]

As far as I know there isn't any pangolin in Nigeria. Why are they avoiding the fact that some of this illegal shipment originated in LoS?

[oneday]

Now what they are going to do to show the world they are doing the right thing is by doing the wrong thing. They will burn the ivory which is the stupidest thing in the world to do. These poor elephants died giving up their ivory to these disgusting excuses for human beings, the poachers. So use the ivory to fight poaching.

Give the ivory to a group of artisans who will carve the ivory into beautiful works of art and sell them to the public. ALL proceeds will then be pumped back into paying the artisans, thus providing gainful employment, and paying for the program that hunts down and eradicates poachers.

Unfortunately, this thinking is out-of-the-box and entirely too novel an idea for people in government to understand it.

[retarius]

How absolutely depressing. Makes you think what kind of filthy trash some people really are. Time for me to take a news break I think, it's too depressing to even read about.

[canuckamuck]

Now what they are going to do to show the world they are doing the right thing is by doing the wrong thing. They will burn the ivory which is the stupidest thing in the world to do. These poor elephants died giving up their ivory to these disgusting excuses for human beings, the poachers. So use the ivory to fight poaching.

Give the ivory to a group of artisans who will carve the ivory into beautiful works of art and sell them to the public. ALL proceeds will then be pumped back into paying the artisans, thus providing gainful employment, and paying for the program that hunts down and eradicates poachers.

Unfortunately, this thinking is out-of-the-box and entirely too novel an idea for people in government to understand it.

Why not use the funds to equip an anti poacher militia.

[farcanell]

Excellent work by Thai authorities... The more they catch, the better, but as others have noted, while there is a demand, there will always be sellers.... So the practice of buying Ivory,... And other black market goods, for that matter, needs to be stopped

Edited December 19, 2015 by farcanell

[farcanell]

I had to look up pangolin scales... But there appear to be four species in Africa, and four species in Asia... Just general info, hope it helps

[Yann55]

281 tusks means about 140 elephants were killed for no reason except for greed.

Those that buy ivory carvings and such are just as guilty as those who do the killing.

140 elephants and a half.

[oztaurus]

It seems clear that Samui was considered a "safe backwater" to get the ivory into the country - no doubt someone received some cash for helping out.

It would be nice f any corrupt officials were detected and punished.....it would also be nice to know how long this "backdoor" has been open - i.e. how much has come into the country before this haul was discovered

Last time I looked there were no direct flights from Nigeria (or Kenya) to Samui - meaning several transit points along the way where the shipment was not detected. Full marks to Thai customs for this haul. As others have said, I hope it doesn't end up mixed into the local ivory trade.

[FredNL]

I am thinking about 1 thing only.

Airfreight from Nigeria to Laos turning up at Koh Samui international airport....

Strange route, very strange route. I think the RTP needs to question the shipping company / forwarder.

Shipping something with a regular forwarder to Laos, would go through Bangkok to Vientiane, I presume?

I never knew that Samui Airport was a large freight forwarder.

[farcanell]

I am thinking about 1 thing only.

Airfreight from Nigeria to Laos turning up at Koh Samui international airport....

Strange route, very strange route. I think the RTP needs to question the shipping company / forwarder.

Shipping something with a regular forwarder to Laos, would go through Bangkok to Vientiane, I presume?

I never knew that Samui Airport was a large freight forwarder.

I was hung up on this very same issue, to the extent that I ignored the paragraphs about air freight, and started thinking that it came here by ship..., which would still be unrealistic, as a direct crossing from Malaysian waters to Cambodia or Vietnam, would be a shorter route than going via Samui

But what really gets me pissed, is that airport checks will confiscate my nail clippers, as the file part can be used as a deadly weapon ( apparently).

But worse, and inexcusable, in these days of terrorist attacks, the airline has no clue about its cargo

[cumgranosalum]

281 tusks means about 140 elephants were killed for no reason except for greed.

Those that buy ivory carvings and such are just as guilty as those who do the killing.

Does not 100% mean they killed the elephants.

You don't appear to understand that the whole business is driven by a market - so those who participate in the market, participate in the killing.

I think RayHaas wanted to point out that some of the tusks could come from elephants who died of natural causes. At least as a possibility, he is correct. I don't know what are the rules with ivory in this case.

But you are quite right about the fact that this shame is market-driven. Kudos to those to manage to intercept the shipment, and hopefully some justice will be done.

So neither of you seem to have a grasp on the illegal trade in ivory and other animal parts.

THere is no such thing as legally exported ivory..whatever the source.

Edited December 19, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[cumgranosalum]

I am thinking about 1 thing only.

Airfreight from Nigeria to Laos turning up at Koh Samui international airport....

Strange route, very strange route. I think the RTP needs to question the shipping company / forwarder.

Shipping something with a regular forwarder to Laos, would go through Bangkok to Vientiane, I presume?

I never knew that Samui Airport was a large freight forwarder.

Absolutely!

[cumgranosalum]

Now what they are going to do to show the world they are doing the right thing is by doing the wrong thing. They will burn the ivory which is the stupidest thing in the world to do. These poor elephants died giving up their ivory to these disgusting excuses for human beings, the poachers. So use the ivory to fight poaching.

Give the ivory to a group of artisans who will carve the ivory into beautiful works of art and sell them to the public. ALL proceeds will then be pumped back into paying the artisans, thus providing gainful employment, and paying for the program that hunts down and eradicates poachers.

Unfortunately, this thinking is out-of-the-box and entirely too novel an idea for people in government to understand it.

NO! NO! NO! - Big mistake! Supporting the ivory trade in any form only continues the demand (or part of it) and furthermore continues the pressure on the "suppliers to provided more.

In fact you idea was the old idea - the current is the thinking outside the box.

[cumgranosalum]

A month for DNA? Things have really gone down hill since Koh Tao. Last year were knocking out DNA test in about 6 hours.

Yea, as they must gather samples from the tusks and also from cadavers from Nigeria to compare with, it's not like they have an elephant DNA database.

If you have a sample and a suspect to compare too then it will be much quicker!

Actually, they have an elephant, Rhino and other endangered species DNA database, under WWF fund, if I remember correctly and they have an office here in Thailand as well.

But the post, if I read correctly, was based on irony.

Really? and where is this "database" and how do you access it.....furthermore you still need to sample the DNA and produce a "fingerprint" to compare.

THailand has been asked y CITES to set up various sytems for monitoring illegal trade in wildlife species, but exactly what they have done and their ability to make use of any of it yet is another matter.

[cumgranosalum]

It seems clear that Samui was considered a "safe backwater" to get the ivory into the country - no doubt someone received some cash for helping out.

It would be nice f any corrupt officials were detected and punished.....it would also be nice to know how long this "backdoor" has been open - i.e. how much has come into the country before this haul was discovered

Last time I looked there were no direct flights from Nigeria (or Kenya) to Samui - meaning several transit points along the way where the shipment was not detected. Full marks to Thai customs for this haul. As others have said, I hope it doesn't end up mixed into the local ivory trade.

I would have thought it unlikely to have been shipped on a regular passenger flight. Much more ;ikely a freighter chartered for some spurious purpose....... it might be useful to the invesyigators if they followed its flight(s) back to origin.

[lvr181]

I despair for the future of our planet. Mankind has caused and is causing the extinction of countless species. The damage we do is evil and is permanent. It is humans who should be exterminated if our world is to continue as the beautiful place it once was. Elephants, tigers, turtles, rhinos....the list is endless that humanity is quickly destroying. We pollute our seas, our land, our air. Australia is destroying its Great Barrier Reef, China is poisoning itself, Indonesia is smoking out the world every year. Climate change is really occurring and all we do is fart around [no pun intended] and continue to poison and pollute and exterminate the only world we will ever have. The sooner we get another ebola/sars/AIDS/ malaria that wipes us out - the better.

Mankind is the ONLY species on Earth that can be described as EVIL.

Perhaps then, in the first step of getting rid of evil you should check out!

You are a total pessimist, not facing reality and not likely to help change anything for the better. Fortunately not everyone is like you - many people are trying to make change for the better and succeeding. You have no sense of history or understanding how "nature" works. Do you really believe that at the end of the last Ice Age, humanity was responsible for the warming of the planet? And how many elephants, tigers, turtles, rhino etc were around then? Many species were wiped out as a result of the Ice Age and many did not survive the end of the Ice Age either. Evolution, my dumb pessimist, is at work. Nature gave us the Great Barrier Reef and nature will take it away. China is now starting to take steps to stop poisoning itself and the list goes on. Our Earth continually evolves with or without the help of humans. So, stop being a pathetic part of the problem and become a part of the solution!

[cumgranosalum]

I despair for the future of our planet. Mankind has caused and is causing the extinction of countless species. The damage we do is evil and is permanent. It is humans who should be exterminated if our world is to continue as the beautiful place it once was. Elephants, tigers, turtles, rhinos....the list is endless that humanity is quickly destroying. We pollute our seas, our land, our air. Australia is destroying its Great Barrier Reef, China is poisoning itself, Indonesia is smoking out the world every year. Climate change is really occurring and all we do is fart around [no pun intended] and continue to poison and pollute and exterminate the only world we will ever have. The sooner we get another ebola/sars/AIDS/ malaria that wipes us out - the better.

Mankind is the ONLY species on Earth that can be described as EVIL.

Perhaps then, in the first step of getting rid of evil you should check out!

You are a total pessimist, not facing reality and not likely to help change anything for the better. Fortunately not everyone is like you - many people are trying to make change for the better and succeeding. You have no sense of history or understanding how "nature" works. Do you really believe that at the end of the last Ice Age, humanity was responsible for the warming of the planet? And how many elephants, tigers, turtles, rhino etc were around then? Many species were wiped out as a result of the Ice Age and many did not survive the end of the Ice Age either. Evolution, my dumb pessimist, is at work. Nature gave us the Great Barrier Reef and nature will take it away. China is now starting to take steps to stop poisoning itself and the list goes on. Our Earth continually evolves with or without the help of humans. So, stop being a pathetic part of the problem and become a part of the solution!

Are you suggesting that the current plethora of extinctions are not man made? If so then you too "have no sense of history or understanding how "nature" works."

Edited December 19, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[Brer Fox]

Not only Thailand catching out the ivory smugglers. Reported yesterday in Vietnam. Thailand 143 tusks versus 22 tons in Vietnam. How many dead elephants per ton of tusks? 835 tusks = 2.2 tonnes.

Report says 100,000 elephants were shot dead for the ivory black market in Asia between 2010 and 2012. Wonder what the latest figures are.

http://www.thanhniennews.com/society/vietnamese-customs-seizes-22-tons-of-elephant-ivory-57111.html