"Hey You Farang", or are you really a human being at your school?

[Andster 68]

Ahh the Leidseplein, fond memories.

I swapped Amsterdam for Bangkok 14 years ago, I do miss it still.

They called me "Englesman" there, down right racist and disrespectful if you ask me....LOL

I'm Welsh!

[mpyre]

Thailand is, ostensibly, a caste society, just like India. There are levels. If you have white skin, money and you're from Bangkok, then you are at the top of the pile of dung. If you're dum dum (black skinned) and from Issan You're at the bottom of the pile of dung. If you're a farang, they will always try to position you somewhere under the pile of dung.

Then there is the ever present mao mao mao (trash talking) where they jockey for a higher position or status. This is achieved, for example, by having a car with a red plate and gaining 'face', which in their eyes, lifts them up. Or, they talk badly about another person, to put the person down so they can feel better about themselves. (Image/face is more important than substance in LOS)

You are never going to change this horrid culture. Why try? You can suffer in silence, or if you have any self respect, remove your self from the situation/Thailand.

You are never going to change this horrid culture.

Whaaat???

Edited December 22, 2015 by mpyre

[UncleE]

In my 25 years in Thailand, there is no doubt in my mind the word "farang" now carries a much more negative connotation than before when it was simply a normal word used to describe foreigners. Whether or not you were getting the full negative connotation in this incident is not sure.

Problem is the ethnocentric approach they use for teaching. Thailand is the best, etc. etc..

The proper salutation is either Khun or Adjarn. In the event you are called "mister" that is even a slight cut. Farang is definitely out of bounds for a person who is known to be a teacher.

I put my two half blood kids in school in USA just to be sure and avoid the way Thai's have continued to box themselves in from an international standpoint.

Nuff said

[onetime]

Thailand is, ostensibly, a caste society, just like India. There are levels. If you have white skin, money and you're from Bangkok, then you are at the top of the pile of dung. If you're dum dum (black skinned) and from Issan You're at the bottom of the pile of dung. If you're a farang, they will always try to position you somewhere under the pile of dung.

Then there is the ever present mao mao mao (trash talking) where they jockey for a higher position or status. This is achieved, for example, by having a car with a red plate and gaining 'face', which in their eyes, lifts them up. Or, they talk badly about another person, to put the person down so they can feel better about themselves. (Image/face is more important than substance in LOS)

You are never going to change this horrid culture. Why try? You can suffer in silence, or if you have any self respect, remove your self from the situation/Thailand.

A "onetime" post that's not even worth to reply to.

Ah, but you did reply. I guess my comment about self respect hit a soft spot, and you are going to suffer in silence.

[onetime]

Thailand is, ostensibly, a caste society, just like India. There are levels. If you have white skin, money and you're from Bangkok, then you are at the top of the pile of dung. If you're dum dum (black skinned) and from Issan You're at the bottom of the pile of dung. If you're a farang, they will always try to position you somewhere under the pile of dung.

Then there is the ever present mao mao mao (trash talking) where they jockey for a higher position or status. This is achieved, for example, by having a car with a red plate and gaining 'face', which in their eyes, lifts them up. Or, they talk badly about another person, to put the person down so they can feel better about themselves. (Image/face is more important than substance in LOS)

You are never going to change this horrid culture. Why try? You can suffer in silence, or if you have any self respect, remove your self from the situation/Thailand.

Rarely stated better

Thanks for the compliment, Sanukjim. This analogy was actually shared with me by an FBI agent whom I met when I first moved here. The agent in question was stationed here, and spoke the language perfectly.

I'm not the type to trust a FED, and I make my own judgments. However, I found what was said to be true.

The part about 'horrid culture' is my summation.

[Lannig]

Sorry to intrude... I have a basic but usable control of the Thai language, however this expression "khun dang chat" is unknown to me.

"khun" of course I know, but "dang chat"? Anyone care to explain or write it in Thai so that I can look it up?

[ccarbaugh]

I have worked at several schools all around the Bangkok area. This is a very common situation. The Thai teachers often disrespect, ignore, insult and are passive/aggressive toward the foreign teachers. I attribute it to a lack of education on their part and try to find someone that can treat me like a human being- both students and teachers! Have to be very "thick-skinned" to teach in Thailand!

[Mot Dang]

In my 25 years in Thailand, there is no doubt in my mind the word "farang" now carries a much more negative connotation than before when it was simply a normal word used to describe foreigners. Whether or not you were getting the full negative connotation in this incident is not sure.

Problem is the ethnocentric approach they use for teaching. Thailand is the best, etc. etc..

The proper salutation is either Khun or Adjarn. In the event you are called "mister" that is even a slight cut. Farang is definitely out of bounds for a person who is known to be a teacher.

I put my two half blood kids in school in USA just to be sure and avoid the way Thai's have continued to box themselves in from an international standpoint.

Nuff said

You write a very good piece, and then in your last paragraph you refer to your own children as half bloods. Why not call them by that popular term (in cowboy and Indian movies), as half breeds, it just the same. If one of my children was called a half blood or a half breed, they would lose some teeth. No sweat.

Calling anyone a half blood in many countries, outside of the USofA that is, is totally unacceptable, and far far more obnoxious than how some people perceive "falang/farung/farang".

As a side note, if I am called mister, I correct them, and as you have said, ask them to call me Khun or Adjarn, Never a problem. I sometimes ask them to call me loong, (uncle), if the situation is appropriate.

I absolutely loath being called "Papa". Guess that is just vanity.

[Mot Dang]

Sorry to intrude... I have a basic but usable control of the Thai language, however this expression "khun dang chat" is unknown to me.

"khun" of course I know, but "dang chat"? Anyone care to explain or write it in Thai so that I can look it up?

Your got my interest on this one, and have been talking to my Thai wife about it.

Are you a red-head or a carrot top ? Or have a ruddy compextion. ? My wife come up with these explanations, but we are not sure.

[Mot Dang]

You have been here long enough to know that (especially in Isaan where the OP is based) this is common practice

Yes, which is why I call people out every time that they do it. IMHO, using the word to address a 3rd party is even worse that saying 'hey you, you farang', (as security guards often do).

I note that in every case that I have personally encountered where I have called out the person using this word, they have subsequently always used my name or 'ajarn' or 'khon dang chat'. No face lost, no grudges held against me either.

I do not accept the 'weak' excuses of 'you not understand', 'this is Thai way' etc. That is for the rose-tinted guys. I politely explain in Thai language why this term should not be used, that it is considered rude and an improper term by many foreigners, and that there are more polite and respectful ways to address a foreigner, (especially a teacher, which is a respected profession in Thailand).

I don't have this problem when I work in Myanmar. The Burmese all address me as 'Saya' (akin to calling a medical doctor 'Doctor'). It is the correct term of respect for addressing someone in that profession.

A little education can go a long way

Khun Simon, what does 'khon dang chat' translate to in Thai ?? I have not heard it before. My wife and I thought it may be referring to a red-head or a person with a red complexion. But after reading your post I realise this is not correct.

[malt25]

I'm a bit surprised that you admit that you're taking the missus along to school to stick up for you.

Maybe this is a sign why you haven't earned the respect you feel you deserve.

I'd have discussed said event with wifey, but would have said a BIG NO, if she wanted to go to the school to hold my hand.

But in the long term... up to you.

[csabo]

Sabai Dee?

Thanks for the replies, I had to take my wife to school anyway, because a teacher got sick and we bumped into her at lunch.

It was only a short chat and nobody lost face.

She did understand that it was impolite in front of the students and aplogized. All was in a relaxed and funny atmosphere, no beating and screaming women involved.

Great, what some posters know about experienced teacher's salary. That's another topic.

Farang doesn't mean a bad word to me, it's used by almost all Thais and I know that many wives call us husbands "Mann", when they talk to some friends. "Where's the thing"?= Mann Bai Sai?

Would my wife call me "Mann" in front of others, that would be the end of our marriage. Thanks for some really good Farang posts...

5555 Mann?? As in "it"? You come walking down the street and your wife says to her friends "Here "it" comes"? That's almost as bad as the guy on another thread that says his wife calls him "lueng" which is still the creepiest chue len of all. My GF loves Game Of Thrones and has taken to referring to me as "My Lord". In the morning I get "What would you like for breakfast My Lord?" She's a keeper.

Edited December 23, 2015 by csabo

[simon43]

Khun Simon, what does 'khon dang chat' translate to in Thai ?? I have not heard it before. My wife and I thought it may be referring to a red-head or a person with a red complexion. But after reading your post I realise this is not correct.

'Dtang', not 'dairng'

Transliteration is never a good idea

Mods - sorry for using Thai, but perhaps the poster can show this to his Thai wife.

คนต่างชาติ

Edited December 23, 2015 by simon43

[simon43]

Mann?? As in "it"?

Yep, that's another use of a word to insult a person, (who doesn't have to be a foreigner).

If someone is referring to you in the 3rd person as 'man', it ain't no compliment

[puchooay]

one needs to keep a cool head and things in perspective. the society is not progressive nor is the education. it is a country of peasant culture. you need to feel confident within yourself most importantly then things wont upset that much.

i encountered the things that upset the OP while teaching temp at a rural school. i really dont care and not phased. even had some sympathy for those people. have also lectured at abac and mahidol where i wish it would be less formal in addressing people.

take a deep breath and relax.

Seems putting people down is a two way thing.

[Scott]

Please stick to English on the forum.

If you wish to discuss all the different variations used in words and their connotation the proper place is in the Thai Language forum.

[Mot Dang]

Khun Simon, what does 'khon dang chat' translate to in Thai ?? I have not heard it before. My wife and I thought it may be referring to a red-head or a person with a red complexion. But after reading your post I realise this is not correct.

'Dtang', not 'dairng'

Transliteration is never a good idea

Mods - sorry for using Thai, but perhaps the poster can show this to his Thai wife.

คนต่างชาติ

Ok got it, every nationality other than a Thai.

Finished on that !!

Edited December 23, 2015 by Mot Dang

[GOLDBUGGY]

Respect is always earned and never given. This is not to say you haven't earned it as this can go unnoticed for years. But how you deal with this with other teacher can reflect on that. Perhaps in a meeting with other teachers and in private may be the best way to deal with this if it still bothers you.

I have worked in many countries overseas and I was seldom ever respected by the locals. It especially doesn't help when they think you were hired to do the same job they are doing, yet you earn 10 times as much as they do.

I just told them that my job is temporary while there is permanent. That it cost me 10 times as much money to buy a house in my country then they do in theres. I tell them the wage I earn here is no more than I would earn back home.

So you making more money then they are will always be an issue with them. Few will ever agree you earn it. Especially if you don't work twice as hard as them to do that. It is all part of the package of working overseas. Understand that and move on. As long as they don't pay you who cares? The good oes will come arouf sooner or later, as they will get over it to.

[ev1lchris]

You make triple than that nincompoop does. Plus they are welcome mats. They will voice their grievances in a passive aggressive way.

[recom273]

Ok got it, every nationality other than a Thai.

Finished on that !!

Whatever it means - person from another country or people from another nation

It's the way an educated person would describe such a western person.

[atyclb]

Respect is always earned and never given. This is not to say you haven't earned it as this can go unnoticed for years. But how you deal with this with other teacher can reflect on that. Perhaps in a meeting with other teachers and in private may be the best way to deal with this if it still bothers you.

I have worked in many countries overseas and I was seldom ever respected by the locals. It especially doesn't help when they think you were hired to do the same job they are doing, yet you earn 10 times as much as they do.

I just told them that my job is temporary while there is permanent. That it cost me 10 times as much money to buy a house in my country then they do in theres. I tell them the wage I earn here is no more than I would earn back home.

So you making more money then they are will always be an issue with them. Few will ever agree you earn it. Especially if you don't work twice as hard as them to do that. It is all part of the package of working overseas. Understand that and move on. As long as they don't pay you who cares? The good oes will come arouf sooner or later, as they will get over it to.

the other important factor is the native english teachers ability to attract tuition paying students. that certainly makes their value higher. look at the nba benchwarmers salaries compared with the players that bring in the fans and the advertisers.

market value, supply and demand. the thai schools would surely pay foreign teachers the same as thais if they would accept it.

[ozyjon]

" Quoting onetime " excellent post,

You are never going to change this horrid culture. Why try?

You can suffer in silence, or if you have any self respect,

remove your self from the situation/Thailand.

After washing off all that dung i packed my bag and am

now in Laos, for how long ? Who cares, until i get covered

by a new pile of dung...

[bwpage3]

I am surprised you haven't learned by now that farang's teaching English are not looked about very highly by any level of Thai society.

Quite the opposite.

One of the very first things to learn and understand in Thailand. Money and power, which a farang teacher has neither.

Thai's aspire and worship money and power.

A farang teacher making 30,000 baht a month to them is considered a failure.

Why in the world would Thai's respect that?

Build a 30,000,000 baht house in the village.

Cruise into school in a 6,000,000 Benz.

Then you will get the respect you seek.

Short of that, the truth is, farang's that move to Thailand to teach for 30,000 a month are considered the very lower rung of society.

Thai's have no respect for anything except money and power.

That is the way of Thai's.

Do not take it personally, you can never change the facts.

To Thai people you are a farang, you are not someone to look up to because you have not achieved money or power.

[eldragon]

I am surprised you haven't learned by now that farang's teaching English are not looked about very highly by any level of Thai society.

Quite the opposite.

One of the very first things to learn and understand in Thailand. Money and power, which a farang teacher has neither.

Thai's aspire and worship money and power.

A farang teacher making 30,000 baht a month to them is considered a failure.

Why in the world would Thai's respect that?

Build a 30,000,000 baht house in the village.

Cruise into school in a 6,000,000 Benz.

Then you will get the respect you seek.

Short of that, the truth is, farang's that move to Thailand to teach for 30,000 a month are considered the very lower rung of society.

Thai's have no respect for anything except money and power.

That is the way of Thai's.

Do not take it personally, you can never change the facts.

To Thai people you are a farang, you are not someone to look up to because you have not achieved money or power.

This post is a bigger insult to Thai people than it is to English teachers.

[bwpage3]

I am surprised you haven't learned by now that farang's teaching English are not looked about very highly by any level of Thai society.

Quite the opposite.

One of the very first things to learn and understand in Thailand. Money and power, which a farang teacher has neither.

Thai's aspire and worship money and power.

A farang teacher making 30,000 baht a month to them is considered a failure.

Why in the world would Thai's respect that?

Build a 30,000,000 baht house in the village.

Cruise into school in a 6,000,000 Benz.

Then you will get the respect you seek.

Short of that, the truth is, farang's that move to Thailand to teach for 30,000 a month are considered the very lower rung of society.

Thai's have no respect for anything except money and power.

That is the way of Thai's.

Do not take it personally, you can never change the facts.

To Thai people you are a farang, you are not someone to look up to because you have not achieved money or power.

This post is a bigger insult to Thai people than it is to English teachers.

What Thailand are you living in?

In a country where parents still sell their own kids into prostitution, it is all about the money.

Thai's give respect to people that have money, whether they are corrupt, gangsters or whatever.

That is the way the country works.

It is all about the money and power.

Farang school teachers are nobodies and no one respects them and never will.

Never mind the fact 95% of the Thai people would rather not have farangs in the country at all.

Farang teachers will always be dead last on the respect list.

Don't forget that those in control of the schools know exactly how little baht farang teachers make, therefore they have no power or respect.

Like it or not, that is the way the real world works.

[puchooay]

I am surprised you haven't learned by now that farang's teaching English are not looked about very highly by any level of Thai society.

Quite the opposite.

One of the very first things to learn and understand in Thailand. Money and power, which a farang teacher has neither.

Thai's aspire and worship money and power.

A farang teacher making 30,000 baht a month to them is considered a failure.

Why in the world would Thai's respect that?

Build a 30,000,000 baht house in the village.

Cruise into school in a 6,000,000 Benz.

Then you will get the respect you seek.

Short of that, the truth is, farang's that move to Thailand to teach for 30,000 a month are considered the very lower rung of society.

Thai's have no respect for anything except money and power.

That is the way of Thai's.

Do not take it personally, you can never change the facts.

To Thai people you are a farang, you are not someone to look up to because you have not achieved money or power.

This post is a bigger insult to Thai people than it is to English teachers.

What Thailand are you living in?

In a country where parents still sell their own kids into prostitution, it is all about the money.

Thai's give respect to people that have money, whether they are corrupt, gangsters or whatever.

That is the way the country works.

It is all about the money and power.

Farang school teachers are nobodies and no one respects them and never will.

Never mind the fact 95% of the Thai people would rather not have farangs in the country at all.

Farang teachers will always be dead last on the respect list.

Don't forget that those in control of the schools know exactly how little baht farang teachers make, therefore they have no power or respect.

Like it or not, that is the way the real world works.

The biggest load of twaddle I have ever heard. It sounds like there is only really one person with a problem here.

[eldragon]

I am surprised you haven't learned by now that farang's teaching English are not looked about very highly by any level of Thai society.

Quite the opposite.

One of the very first things to learn and understand in Thailand. Money and power, which a farang teacher has neither.

Thai's aspire and worship money and power.

A farang teacher making 30,000 baht a month to them is considered a failure.

Why in the world would Thai's respect that?

Build a 30,000,000 baht house in the village.

Cruise into school in a 6,000,000 Benz.

Then you will get the respect you seek.

Short of that, the truth is, farang's that move to Thailand to teach for 30,000 a month are considered the very lower rung of society.

Thai's have no respect for anything except money and power.

That is the way of Thai's.

Do not take it personally, you can never change the facts.

To Thai people you are a farang, you are not someone to look up to because you have not achieved money or power.

This post is a bigger insult to Thai people than it is to English teachers.

What Thailand are you living in?

In a country where parents still sell their own kids into prostitution, it is all about the money.

Thai's give respect to people that have money, whether they are corrupt, gangsters or whatever.

That is the way the country works.

It is all about the money and power.

Farang school teachers are nobodies and no one respects them and never will.

Never mind the fact 95% of the Thai people would rather not have farangs in the country at all.

Farang teachers will always be dead last on the respect list.

Don't forget that those in control of the schools know exactly how little baht farang teachers make, therefore they have no power or respect.

Like it or not, that is the way the real world works.

I agree many of the beliefs and attitudes you described do exist in Thailand, but I think they apply to a very small percentage of Thais, largely b/c most of em dont have money and never will. Most Thai people (90%) are probably ignorant about who we are or why we're here and don't think about English teachers very often. I also think it's more likely the OP is experiencing bad attitude b/c Thai schools are somewhat draconian. The teachers are overworked and get paid very little. They're subjected to nonsensical policies and students who respect them less and less every day. So, besides any personal feelings they may have towards foreign teachers, it's very likely they're just not happy with their job.

[ev1lchris]

I am surprised you haven't learned by now that farang's teaching English are not looked about very highly by any level of Thai society.

Quite the opposite.

One of the very first things to learn and understand in Thailand. Money and power, which a farang teacher has neither.

Thai's aspire and worship money and power.

A farang teacher making 30,000 baht a month to them is considered a failure.

Why in the world would Thai's respect that?

Build a 30,000,000 baht house in the village.

Cruise into school in a 6,000,000 Benz.

Then you will get the respect you seek.

Short of that, the truth is, farang's that move to Thailand to teach for 30,000 a month are considered the very lower rung of society.

Thai's have no respect for anything except money and power.

That is the way of Thai's.

Do not take it personally, you can never change the facts.

To Thai people you are a farang, you are not someone to look up to because you have not achieved money or power.

This post is a bigger insult to Thai people than it is to English teachers.

What Thailand are you living in?

In a country where parents still sell their own kids into prostitution, it is all about the money.

Thai's give respect to people that have money, whether they are corrupt, gangsters or whatever.

That is the way the country works.

It is all about the money and power.

Farang school teachers are nobodies and no one respects them and never will.

Never mind the fact 95% of the Thai people would rather not have farangs in the country at all.

Farang teachers will always be dead last on the respect list.

Don't forget that those in control of the schools know exactly how little baht farang teachers make, therefore they have no power or respect.

Like it or not, that is the way the real world works.

95% of Thais? Where do you get these numbers? Out of your ass?

If that were the case Thais would be as xenophobic as the Chinese.

[Remi080]

Some here have a good point, some talk nonsense.

I belive that it depends on the person itself who be called a farang" ,if he let that happen or not. Some people ( farang) dont care about it, and some feel offended by the word falang.

We all can share our experiance here, but might not make sense for a other.

My experiance is when people call me a " farang" i interrupt them directly, i have a name! And wished to be called MR. Or just My name. Mostly they are quite after that and use the word Mr. Your a teacher man , you are suppose to educate thai people! So if i where you, i wait the moment to teach that person how you would be like to called or named and tell her in front of a lot other people so she can loose face for all those others, and in the same time all those others got instandly the message. They will not forget that Mr!

Im not a teacher, but have to deal with a lot off diffrent classes of people for my work , im glad i lerned to speak thai, when you do speak thai you will lern so much other stuff, and understand thai people as well.

And yes, lot of thai people are thereble "behind scedule" as i call that a lac of education and knowledge, special the older generation, but lot of outside people as well,, as they like to scare there children by tell there kids " be carefull, the falang will bite you" and so these kids will be in fear and start to cry. Or some parents tell there daughter to get a farang boyfriend, " its easy just open your legs" is good money they say. Man ..... This stuff happends often.. w t f . Oke oke im priviledged to speak thai so much, you dont want to know how i correct those people in public, ... Hard , respectfull and very friendly as i must rep. All foreigners in thai, but i assure you, those will regret, specially REMEMBER how to approch a farang a decent way. Its all about educate them. I know i cant change the world, but at least i can make a spark to light a fire. And we all should do something together in stead wining here on a forum.

While writing this i be remembered that i deal with this stuff for the last 15 years, and see that it improve a lot, specially becouse of you farang teachers! Thanks.

[bigt3116]

"I thought that it’s worth to post it here, as many of us who’re working at Thai government schools do not receive the needed respect. It happened last Monday at a smaller government school somewhere in the lower northeast."

How do you know it happens to many people ?

Respect is earnt, maybe you have not earnt it ?

"Smaller", than what ?

"Having the kids’ noise around me, plus hearing a for me unknown word and I just didn’t get it. "

You and a Thai teacher in the classroom and neither of you could keep the children quiet, wow, shows a lack of classroom management.

" I wanted to snap but decided to stay calm. When I later spoke to my wife and explained what happened, she was furious and she’ll be at school with me on Monday and we’ll see the friendly homeroom teacher, an old impertinent and not really smart teacher."

Probably the most pathetic thing you have ever written.

"Thanks a lot in advance for any useful inputs, plus some ideas and maybe certain ways how to deal with such “phenomenal circumstances.” "

Are you sure you wanted to use the word "phenomenal" ? It did not sound like you were vastly impressed with the situation ?

Edited December 25, 2015 by bigt3116