Isaan electors call for harsh penalties for electoral fraud

[webfact]

Isaan electors call for harsh penalties for electoral fraud
THE NATION

UBON RATCHATHANI: -- COMMUNITY representatives from the Northeast have suggested that politicians should face the death sentence if found guilty of electoral fraud, according to a public hearing held in Ubon Ratchathani yesterday.

The public hearing was organised by the Constitution Drafting Commission.

Speakers proposed that anyone involved in electoral fraud - including a "mastermind" or supporters of offences - should face heavy penalties including death. Election candidates who fail to fully disclose their records should earn a prison term, they said.

They also supported having a non-elected PM to solve the country's crises. They suggested that only people born in local areas be allowed to apply as election candidates for the management of local administrative organisations - not those who only lived for in local areas for a limited period.

The public hearing was classified into five groups discussing five topics:

On rights, liberty and responsibilities of the people, residents in the Northeast wanted the charter draft to be based on the 1997 Constitution.

On the kinds of state they desired, the group said they wanted bureaucratic reform so that the sector is small but efficient. They also wanted education reform and families strengthened by, for instance, giving longer maternity leave.

In regard to the Senate, the group wanted direct election of senators, one per province, and indirect elections by various professionals.

For the election of MPs, the group suggested that a primary vote be held to screen candidates who most people wanted to run in the election.

The group suggested that the charter put fewer restrictions on candidates, for instance on educational credentials, as they would rather prefer people with higher moral grounds than higher education.

They said the age of MP candidates should be limited to not more than 60, reasoning that elderly people could not adjust to changes, such as reforms. They wanted at least half the election candidates to be women.

Calls for reform of education

On the desired decentralisation, the group said it wanted public participation in local development, education and management of natural resources.

And on desired reform, the group wanted a restructuring of the Education Ministry, other educational institutes and upgraded qualifications for educational personnel.

Nitipan Chuabunchai, chairman of the subcommittee on public hearings, said many proposals in the meeting yesterday were new and not heard of before - but many other proposals might be included in the charter draft.

Former charter writer Kanin Boonsuwna said the main reason the charter draft written by the CDC, led by chairman Meechai Ruchupan, could be rejected in a public referendum was the issue of a non-elected PM

He said having senators gaining office from indirect elections did not justify them having the power to endorse independent agencies, such as the Constitutional Court. This was because the court had the right to impeach the PM, head of the executive branch. This would mean having indirectly elected senators tampering with the country's balance and separation of powers.

He said having a Constitutional Court, which had the power to veto bills, charter amendments, made the court an "extra constitutional power".

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Isaan-electors-call-for-harsh-penalties-for-electo-30275334.html


-- The Nation 2015-12-21

[tbthailand]

Amazing how a CDC sponsored event manages to get people who support their current plan almost to the letter...

[aussiesteve63]

Amazing how a CDC sponsored event manages to get people who support their current plan almost to the letter...

Government rent a crowd

[trogers]

The crowd probably excluded those lying on hammocks half a day...

[jaltsc]

"...politicians should face the death sentence if found guilty of electoral fraud..."

That's one way of getting rid of every red shirt politician.

[prakhonchai nick]

"...politicians should face the death sentence if found guilty of electoral fraud..."

That's one way of getting rid of every red shirt politician.

Not necessarily.

I am all for harsh punishments, so long as they are well known to the public, before they commit the offence. Some will ignore the possibility of punishment, but I believe many will think twice before breaking the law,

As it is at the moment, the chances of getting caught breaking any law are minimal, with punishment laughable!

[oneday]

First off the death sentence is ridiculous.

Here is what I learned in a recent "Puu Yai Ban" election in my wife's village. It appears that two or more teams are formed. The teams center around one individual who is going for the "Puu Yai Ban" position. People or families on the team that expect to be assistants to the "Puu Yai Ban" contribute money to a war chest. Several families contributed up to 20,000 by getting loans at a bank. This is of course money they can ill afford to lose since many are already in hock to the banks with other loans. And BTW, "Puu Yai Bans" get something like 10,000-12,000 a month and assistants get about 6,000-8,000 from the government.

And what is this war chest for? It is to pay off every villager to vote for a given "Puu Yai Ban" or team. This strategy fails miserably when most or almost all the villagers got 1000 baht from each side thereby negating the purpose of the pay off. All the villagers just look at it as a lottery win. If there are 5 adults in a given household then they just reaped 10,000 baht for the family.

It is all such a shame and a waste of money and turns true Democracy on its head.

I was also floored to find out the "Puu Yai Ban", no matter what age they are, is the "Puu Yai Ban" until they turn 65 (I believe that is the mandatory retirement age) so you could have someone in their position for 30 years or more with no chance of being removed for representing the village poorly or not at all. I suppose there might be some way to recall a "Puu Yai Ban", but I seriously doubt it is ever exercised.

This type of election, which is just a microcosm of what happens all over Thailand in all types of elections, is not even close to Democracy.

[Baerboxer]

Amazing how a CDC sponsored event manages to get people who support their current plan almost to the letter...

Government rent a crowd

Probably many former PTP red shirt rent a crowd attendees.

The Baht is almighty and who cares where it comes from.

[thelonius]

Amazing how a CDC sponsored event manages to get people who support their current plan almost to the letter...

Government rent a crowd

Probably many former PTP red shirt rent a crowd attendees.

The Baht is almighty and who cares where it comes from.

So let me get this right; you're saying that a meeting that suggested that the death penalty should be applied to those who commit electoral fraud was populated by former "PTP red shirt rent a crowd" attendees? The very people you and others have accused of being bought at elections i.e electoral fraud.

Now if that were true, why would they attend, and by inference support, a meeting suggesting ways that would cut off their hypothetical "source of funding".

Really can't understand your logic there - I'd go for the more realistic "meeting stuffed with junta apparatchiks"

[tbthailand]

Amazing how a CDC sponsored event manages to get people who support their current plan almost to the letter...

Government rent a crowd

Probably many former PTP red shirt rent a crowd attendees.

The Baht is almighty and who cares where it comes from.

So let me get this right; you're saying that a meeting that suggested that the death penalty should be applied to those who commit electoral fraud was populated by former "PTP red shirt rent a crowd" attendees? The very people you and others have accused of being bought at elections i.e electoral fraud.

Now if that were true, why would they attend, and by inference support, a meeting suggesting ways that would cut off their hypothetical "source of funding".

Really can't understand your logic there - I'd go for the more realistic "meeting stuffed with junta apparatchiks"

there is no logic, ...

junta huggers always need to disparage anyone who wants democracy.

it's an easy job for them because they only need hate ... information is not important.

[scorecard]

Amazing how a CDC sponsored event manages to get people who support their current plan almost to the letter...

Government rent a crowd

Well Thailand has quite some solid history of political rent a crowds, the last 12 - 14 years the ultimate example.

Perhaps the discussions of the last day or so in Essan reveals that these folks have woken up to the last rent a crowd activities / or put it another way, they now more strongly realize they have been used and are tired of being manipulated by the paymasters get real rich real quick club.

[dcsw53]

You mean my girlfriend is not going to get her THB 500 this election ?

Honey, it's time to sell the dog !

[scorecard]

Amazing how a CDC sponsored event manages to get people who support their current plan almost to the letter...

Government rent a crowd

Well Thailand has quite some solid history of political rent a crowds, the last 12 - 14 years the ultimate example.

Perhaps the discussions of the last day or so in Essan reveals that these folks have woken up to the last rent a crowd activities / or put it another way, they now more strongly realize they have been used and are tired of being manipulated by the paymasters get real rich real quick club.

there is no logic, ...

junta huggers always need to disparage anyone who wants democracy.

it's an easy job for them because they only need hate ... information is not important.

"...they only need hate..."

What a statement, think about the udd activities over the last 7 or 8 years or so, the absolute masters of generating severe hate.

[EnglishJohn]

Amazing how a CDC sponsored event manages to get people who support their current plan almost to the letter...

Government rent a crowd

Probably many former PTP red shirt rent a crowd attendees.

The Baht is almighty and who cares where it comes from.

So let me get this right; you're saying that a meeting that suggested that the death penalty should be applied to those who commit electoral fraud was populated by former "PTP red shirt rent a crowd" attendees? The very people you and others have accused of being bought at elections i.e electoral fraud.

Now if that were true, why would they attend, and by inference support, a meeting suggesting ways that would cut off their hypothetical "source of funding".

Really can't understand your logic there - I'd go for the more realistic "meeting stuffed with junta apparatchiks"

Oh dear - I'll help you a bit.

He's saying that if people have been paid to attend (and you yourself inferred this), they are most likely to be the same people who would go to meetings for Pheu-Thai if they got paid.

The point is that they are simply greedy toads who don't care one bit about any politics : they just want to get some free money. That's what Thaksin meant when he said "It's easy to win the hearts of red-shirts".

I have already seen that logic is not your strong point. Don't worry about it : you have plenty of company.

[baboon]

Junta John - A man who would most likely also support the death penalty for red shirt politicians who were found NOT guilty of electoral fraud, bless him...

[tbthailand]

Well Thailand has quite some solid history of political rent a crowds, the last 12 - 14 years the ultimate example.

Perhaps the discussions of the last day or so in Essan reveals that these folks have woken up to the last rent a crowd activities / or put it another way, they now more strongly realize they have been used and are tired of being manipulated by the paymasters get real rich real quick club.

there is no logic, ...

junta huggers always need to disparage anyone who wants democracy.

it's an easy job for them because they only need hate ... information is not important.

"...they only need hate..."

What a statement, think about the udd activities over the last 7 or 8 years or so, the absolute masters of generating severe hate.

yeah, not...

[tbthailand]

Junta John - A man who would most likely also support the death penalty for red shirt politicians who were found NOT guilty of electoral fraud, bless him...

and completely unaware of what Thai people really think, much less Red Shirts

[scorecard]

Well Thailand has quite some solid history of political rent a crowds, the last 12 - 14 years the ultimate example.

Perhaps the discussions of the last day or so in Essan reveals that these folks have woken up to the last rent a crowd activities / or put it another way, they now more strongly realize they have been used and are tired of being manipulated by the paymasters get real rich real quick club.

there is no logic, ...

junta huggers always need to disparage anyone who wants democracy.

it's an easy job for them because they only need hate ... information is not important.

"...they only need hate..."

What a statement, think about the udd activities over the last 7 or 8 years or so, the absolute masters of generating severe hate.

yeah, not...

Your wrong, or perhaps you have a convenient memory lapse.

- Plenty of comments in the past about the red shirt democracy schools - nothing more than hate abhisit, hate the dems etc.,sessions.

- Plenty of daily reports in 2010 of the major red rallies when the red / udd leaders sprouted the same hate over and over again to their rent a crowd followers. And deliberately doctored and played an audio tape to use as a tool to generate more abhisit hate.

[trogers]

First off the death sentence is ridiculous.

Here is what I learned in a recent "Puu Yai Ban" election in my wife's village. It appears that two or more teams are formed. The teams center around one individual who is going for the "Puu Yai Ban" position. People or families on the team that expect to be assistants to the "Puu Yai Ban" contribute money to a war chest. Several families contributed up to 20,000 by getting loans at a bank. This is of course money they can ill afford to lose since many are already in hock to the banks with other loans. And BTW, "Puu Yai Bans" get something like 10,000-12,000 a month and assistants get about 6,000-8,000 from the government.

And what is this war chest for? It is to pay off every villager to vote for a given "Puu Yai Ban" or team. This strategy fails miserably when most or almost all the villagers got 1000 baht from each side thereby negating the purpose of the pay off. All the villagers just look at it as a lottery win. If there are 5 adults in a given household then they just reaped 10,000 baht for the family.

It is all such a shame and a waste of money and turns true Democracy on its head.

I was also floored to find out the "Puu Yai Ban", no matter what age they are, is the "Puu Yai Ban" until they turn 65 (I believe that is the mandatory retirement age) so you could have someone in their position for 30 years or more with no chance of being removed for representing the village poorly or not at all. I suppose there might be some way to recall a "Puu Yai Ban", but I seriously doubt it is ever exercised.

This type of election, which is just a microcosm of what happens all over Thailand in all types of elections, is not even close to Democracy.

These country folks do not know nor care about Democracy. But they know that election time is handouts time...

[tbthailand]

"...they only need hate..."

What a statement, think about the udd activities over the last 7 or 8 years or so, the absolute masters of generating severe hate.

yeah, not...

Your wrong, or perhaps you have a convenient memory lapse.

- Plenty of comments in the past about the red shirt democracy schools - nothing more than hate abhisit, hate the dems etc.,sessions.

- Plenty of daily reports in 2010 of the major red rallies when the red / udd leaders sprouted the same hate over and over again to their rent a crowd followers. And deliberately doctored and played an audio tape to use as a tool to generate more abhisit hate.

wow, you may just be as uniformed as EJ and I didn't think that was possible...

Tell me, when was the last time you were at one of the UDD democracy schools? Never? oh, what a surprise...

And the tired out old phrase "daily reports of" used the same way as always, /// hyperbole, unsubstantiated drama-queen-ism, with the sole intent to ignorantly dismiss and simultaneously demean the entire group... Good job. (some of us call that "lying")

2010 - call it hate, call it anger. No matter what, there is a key difference between red and yellow. The red shirts get angry when an elected government gets toppled by the courts and the military (2006, 2008, 2014) They get angry when the government (re: army) shoots and kills them (2008, 2009, 2010, ... ). The yellow shirts get angry every time their side loses an election (2007, 2011) and takes to the streets to turn over the results of elections using extra-constitutional means (2006, 2008, 2013, 2014).

(BTW, I am fully aware that there are people among the red shirts and among the yellow shirts who truly "hate" the other side... I know some personally from the yellow side and they are otherwise intelligent, caring people... But when they see red, ... well... 'nuff said)

I've said it before and will say it again - I never condone violence and not even the violent rhetoric - not from red shirts, not from yellow shirts and most certainly not from the most violent oppressive group in Thailand, the military and their filthy rich elite backers.

But hey, if you aren't that informed, then why not read up a bit - here is an article - up to date - on the red shirts today. They talk about how they PAID THEIR OWN WAY to BKK in 2010. So much for rent-a-crowd. They talk about both violent and non-violent resistance. They talk about how they feel about the country, democracy and Thaksin... Go ahead, dare yourself to learn something... It's right here.

As for the Abhisit tape, you should be ashamed to even imply things that you do not know. It is a fact that no one knows the origins of that tape and it is a fact that any casual listener would not hear that it was doctored.

Oh, yeah for hate and violence, try a couple of these examples on for size...

Here is the mad monk explaining away the violence of his followers...

Security guards employed by the People's Committee for Absolute Democracy With the King As Head of State (PCAD) have been making headlines with tales of their intimidation and physical assaults on random motorists and bystanders.

Speaking to Daily News newspaper yesterday, core PCAD leader Buddha Issara admitted that the anti-government guards are known to be violent, but also asked the public to "understand the situation."

"We want to maintain security for our brothers and sisters," Buddha Issara said. "It may affect your traveling, but if you understand the situation and don't let your emotion cloud your judgment, I think, every side will understand our actions."

In the last week alone, PCAD guards beat up a pilot en route to Don Mueang Airport, leaving him unconscious, and stabbed an ice delivery man in the lung, causing him to fall into a coma.

In April, PCAD guards assaulted and shot at an army colonel on Chaeng Wattana Road, forcing the man to seek prolonged medical treatment in a hospital. PCAD guards later apologised to the Royal Thai Army over the incident, but the colonel's family has vowed to pursue legal actions against the guards.

Many of the violent outbursts appear to be prompted by the slightest sign of provocation; all three aforementioned incidents followed victims' attempts to remove traffic cones placed on the roads by PCAD guards.

Here is a sample of the non-violent PDRC protesters...

Kamthong Somchai started his day on Jan. 17 as usual. He left a deserted guardhouse, which is his only shelter with his tricycle, to look for recyclable garbage on Lad Phrao road, not far from the People’s Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC) rally. He was wearing a white t-shirt saying “We love Yingluck; we love Democracy,” which he had received during an election campaign.

Captured by a group of alleged PDRC guards, he was asked if he was a red-shirt supporter, Kamthong told them frankly that he was a red-shirt supporter even though he knew that the answer may lead to negative consequences.

He was tortured and beaten for several hours, and blacked out several times. He was later released. His tricycle, wallet and ID card were taken along with 3000 baht in cash.

Here are those peaceful PDRC protesters helping people vote...

And here is a chart that explains why the elites and the yellow shirts in BKK are not fans of electoral politics.... elections make it so hard to keep all that money in Bangkok...

So yeah, the reds and the yellows hate each other, but one side wants to choose a government of the people and the other side wants to take it away, ... take away the right to chose, take away the right to free speech, take away the right to free assembly, and take away the right to be treated equally before the law, the freedom to ... well, here's the list...

[rubl]

Amazing how a CDC sponsored event manages to get people who support their current plan almost to the letter...

Which letter was that then?

If I remember correctly the CDC was accused of pushing centrallisation and here we have an event where people ask for local responsibilities.

[rubl]

Government rent a crowd

Probably many former PTP red shirt rent a crowd attendees.

The Baht is almighty and who cares where it comes from.

So let me get this right; you're saying that a meeting that suggested that the death penalty should be applied to those who commit electoral fraud was populated by former "PTP red shirt rent a crowd" attendees? The very people you and others have accused of being bought at elections i.e electoral fraud.

Now if that were true, why would they attend, and by inference support, a meeting suggesting ways that would cut off their hypothetical "source of funding".

Really can't understand your logic there - I'd go for the more realistic "meeting stuffed with junta apparatchiks"

there is no logic, ...

junta huggers always need to disparage anyone who wants democracy.

it's an easy job for them because they only need hate ... information is not important.

did you really write

"Amazing how a CDC sponsored event manages to get people who support their current plan almost to the letter"?

Seems to contradict you now writing

"junta huggers always need to disparage anyone who wants democracy."

[jesimps]

First off the death sentence is ridiculous.

Here is what I learned in a recent "Puu Yai Ban" election in my wife's village. It appears that two or more teams are formed. The teams center around one individual who is going for the "Puu Yai Ban" position. People or families on the team that expect to be assistants to the "Puu Yai Ban" contribute money to a war chest. Several families contributed up to 20,000 by getting loans at a bank. This is of course money they can ill afford to lose since many are already in hock to the banks with other loans. And BTW, "Puu Yai Bans" get something like 10,000-12,000 a month and assistants get about 6,000-8,000 from the government.

And what is this war chest for? It is to pay off every villager to vote for a given "Puu Yai Ban" or team. This strategy fails miserably when most or almost all the villagers got 1000 baht from each side thereby negating the purpose of the pay off. All the villagers just look at it as a lottery win. If there are 5 adults in a given household then they just reaped 10,000 baht for the family.

It is all such a shame and a waste of money and turns true Democracy on its head.

I was also floored to find out the "Puu Yai Ban", no matter what age they are, is the "Puu Yai Ban" until they turn 65 (I believe that is the mandatory retirement age) so you could have someone in their position for 30 years or more with no chance of being removed for representing the village poorly or not at all. I suppose there might be some way to recall a "Puu Yai Ban", but I seriously doubt it is ever exercised.

This type of election, which is just a microcosm of what happens all over Thailand in all types of elections, is not even close to Democracy.

These country folks do not know nor care about Democracy. But they know that election time is handouts time...

Quite rightly and so would I. Take the handout, say "Thank you very much", then go vote for the party that you want in power. I know some of us think Thais are stupid, but they ain't THAT stupid.

[jesimps]

Quick Gen P, go to the country now! According to this load of blx you'll walk it.

Not holding my breath.

[DrTuner]

Harsh, as in 100b and/or 2 months in jail like is the local scale?

[Roadman]

Amazing how a CDC sponsored event manages to get people who support their current plan almost to the letter...

Or perhaps now people can speak freely without fear of their home being bombed or AK-47'ed if they oppose the Thaksin creed....

[scorecard]

"...they only need hate..."

What a statement, think about the udd activities over the last 7 or 8 years or so, the absolute masters of generating severe hate.

yeah, not...

Your wrong, or perhaps you have a convenient memory lapse.

- Plenty of comments in the past about the red shirt democracy schools - nothing more than hate abhisit, hate the dems etc.,sessions.

- Plenty of daily reports in 2010 of the major red rallies when the red / udd leaders sprouted the same hate over and over again to their rent a crowd followers. And deliberately doctored and played an audio tape to use as a tool to generate more abhisit hate.

wow, you may just be as uniformed as EJ and I didn't think that was possible...

Tell me, when was the last time you were at one of the UDD democracy schools? Never? oh, what a surprise...

And the tired out old phrase "daily reports of" used the same way as always, /// hyperbole, unsubstantiated drama-queen-ism, with the sole intent to ignorantly dismiss and simultaneously demean the entire group... Good job. (some of us call that "lying")

2010 - call it hate, call it anger. No matter what, there is a key difference between red and yellow. The red shirts get angry when an elected government gets toppled by the courts and the military (2006, 2008, 2014) They get angry when the government (re: army) shoots and kills them (2008, 2009, 2010, ... ). The yellow shirts get angry every time their side loses an election (2007, 2011) and takes to the streets to turn over the results of elections using extra-constitutional means (2006, 2008, 2013, 2014).

(BTW, I am fully aware that there are people among the red shirts and among the yellow shirts who truly "hate" the other side... I know some personally from the yellow side and they are otherwise intelligent, caring people... But when they see red, ... well... 'nuff said)

I've said it before and will say it again - I never condone violence and not even the violent rhetoric - not from red shirts, not from yellow shirts and most certainly not from the most violent oppressive group in Thailand, the military and their filthy rich elite backers.

But hey, if you aren't that informed, then why not read up a bit - here is an article - up to date - on the red shirts today. They talk about how they PAID THEIR OWN WAY to BKK in 2010. So much for rent-a-crowd. They talk about both violent and non-violent resistance. They talk about how they feel about the country, democracy and Thaksin... Go ahead, dare yourself to learn something... It's right here.

As for the Abhisit tape, you should be ashamed to even imply things that you do not know. It is a fact that no one knows the origins of that tape and it is a fact that any casual listener would not hear that it was doctored.

Oh, yeah for hate and violence, try a couple of these examples on for size...

Here is the mad monk explaining away the violence of his followers...

Security guards employed by the People's Committee for Absolute Democracy With the King As Head of State (PCAD) have been making headlines with tales of their intimidation and physical assaults on random motorists and bystanders.

Speaking to Daily News newspaper yesterday, core PCAD leader Buddha Issara admitted that the anti-government guards are known to be violent, but also asked the public to "understand the situation."

"We want to maintain security for our brothers and sisters," Buddha Issara said. "It may affect your traveling, but if you understand the situation and don't let your emotion cloud your judgment, I think, every side will understand our actions."

In the last week alone, PCAD guards beat up a pilot en route to Don Mueang Airport, leaving him unconscious, and stabbed an ice delivery man in the lung, causing him to fall into a coma.

In April, PCAD guards assaulted and shot at an army colonel on Chaeng Wattana Road, forcing the man to seek prolonged medical treatment in a hospital. PCAD guards later apologised to the Royal Thai Army over the incident, but the colonel's family has vowed to pursue legal actions against the guards.

Many of the violent outbursts appear to be prompted by the slightest sign of provocation; all three aforementioned incidents followed victims' attempts to remove traffic cones placed on the roads by PCAD guards.

Here is a sample of the non-violent PDRC protesters...

Kamthong Somchai started his day on Jan. 17 as usual. He left a deserted guardhouse, which is his only shelter with his tricycle, to look for recyclable garbage on Lad Phrao road, not far from the People’s Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC) rally. He was wearing a white t-shirt saying “We love Yingluck; we love Democracy,” which he had received during an election campaign.

Captured by a group of alleged PDRC guards, he was asked if he was a red-shirt supporter, Kamthong told them frankly that he was a red-shirt supporter even though he knew that the answer may lead to negative consequences.

He was tortured and beaten for several hours, and blacked out several times. He was later released. His tricycle, wallet and ID card were taken along with 3000 baht in cash.

Here are those peaceful PDRC protesters helping people vote...

And here is a chart that explains why the elites and the yellow shirts in BKK are not fans of electoral politics.... elections make it so hard to keep all that money in Bangkok...

So yeah, the reds and the yellows hate each other, but one side wants to choose a government of the people and the other side wants to take it away, ... take away the right to chose, take away the right to free speech, take away the right to free assembly, and take away the right to be treated equally before the law, the freedom to ... well, here's the list...

I disagree with you in terms of the original subject, and I throw the same point back at you - how many red / udd democracy school meetings were you present at?

It's very possible many posters have quality accurate information without being 'in the room'.

My information came from several sources. One example, a loud and and unpleasant Thai woman in my office (speaks excellent English). She's from Udon Thani and she proudly told everybody about the content of the red / udd democracy schools and she proudly told all about the local village officials 'insisting' that all villagers must attend.

I also disagree with your comment about 'the tape', my Thai adult son got a copy and he and his friends listened very carefully. The woman I mentioned just above also told all in the office that the tape was doctored and was so very proud to tell that it was all about generating hate against abhisit.

She resigned and left quickly after her father was dismissed from public service for his personal involvement in the above.

You seem to think it's so far back in history everybody has forgotten the details. Think again.

By the way you win the prize for the biggest number of off topic diversions in one post in history.

Nobody denies there have been actions / words from all sides which are very wrong / very unhelpful, that's been said a million times already on TV with many posters saying all sides should be punished, and punished appropriately if they have broken the law. Just more of your diversions.

By the way I very much doubt anybody disagrees that the spread of GPD / wealth etc., is way out of balance and urgently needs serious attention. It's a similar picture in many countries but that doesn't of course mean it's OK. By the way what policies and actions did the paymasters governments ever introduce to address this issues? Just more of your diversions.

[tbthailand]

Amazing how a CDC sponsored event manages to get people who support their current plan almost to the letter...

Or perhaps now people can speak freely without fear of their home being bombed or AK-47'ed if they oppose the Thaksin creed....

with students being summoned for going to visit a park, and sick people being arrested in the hospital, and stiff sentences being handed out for FB posts, or even writing on the bathroom stalls,... and with people disappearing permanently or others just for a few days before they turn up dead in military custody, ... and with activists being harassed by the government and the military helping mining companies drill where they have been told to stop (before the coup), then ...

sure, I am certain that anyone in Isaan with a view that diverges from the CDC's party line is going to feel suuuuuuuper comfortable making their point at one of these meetings.

wow, ... just wow...

[rubl]

Amazing how a CDC sponsored event manages to get people who support their current plan almost to the letter...

Or perhaps now people can speak freely without fear of their home being bombed or AK-47'ed if they oppose the Thaksin creed....

with students being summoned for going to visit a park, and sick people being arrested in the hospital, and stiff sentences being handed out for FB posts, or even writing on the bathroom stalls,... and with people disappearing permanently or others just for a few days before they turn up dead in military custody, ... and with activists being harassed by the government and the military helping mining companies drill where they have been told to stop (before the coup), then ...

sure, I am certain that anyone in Isaan with a view that diverges from the CDC's party line is going to feel suuuuuuuper comfortable making their point at one of these meetings.

wow, ... just wow...

Any news on the sick Thanet, did he have his much needed operation yet?

As for the topic, the death penalty for election fraud is a bit too much what with most countries having dropped that penalty. Still a penalty should work as detergent and a five year banned on being a candidate for public functions seems right. failure to disclose assets should automatically invite the taxmen to participate in further investigations and require excellent reasons to avoid a penalty.

As for a new charter based on the 1997 version, I disagree. The 2007 version had various improvements and we know what contencious parts there are in that version. Should make further improvement and fine tuning easier.

BTW some posters were very vocal and against centralisation. Well, here we have

"On the desired decentralisation, the group said it wanted public participation in local development, education and management of natural resources."

so that should make people happy.

[thelonius]

So let me get this right; you're saying that a meeting that suggested that the death penalty should be applied to those who commit electoral fraud was populated by former "PTP red shirt rent a crowd" attendees? The very people you and others have accused of being bought at elections i.e electoral fraud.

Now if that were true, why would they attend, and by inference support, a meeting suggesting ways that would cut off their hypothetical "source of funding".

Really can't understand your logic there - I'd go for the more realistic "meeting stuffed with junta apparatchiks"

Oh dear - I'll help you a bit.

He's saying that if people have been paid to attend (and you yourself inferred this), they are most likely to be the same people who would go to meetings for Pheu-Thai if they got paid.

The point is that they are simply greedy toads who don't care one bit about any politics : they just want to get some free money. That's what Thaksin meant when he said "It's easy to win the hearts of red-shirts".

I have already seen that logic is not your strong point. Don't worry about it : you have plenty of company.

I see that you took my comments about your posting style to heart - and completely ignored them. Still using insults instead of cogent arguments I see, the above a case in point. I suggest you re-read my reply to baerboxers' post and then ask yourself again why you think I have a problem with logic.