Fake Stamp. What to do?

[ardokano]

Any time you break the law there is risk. If the agency gets busted and they have kept records then that risk will go up. If you've unknowingly received a dodgy stamp why then commit a criminal offence in an effort to resolve it - makes no sense.

What kinde crime? If damage or lost passport its crime please give article.

But fake stamp its crime if used( give to any to representative government in Thailand)

just only fake stamp in passport its NOT crime. And When you know stamp its fake and give passport for officer immigration you go to crime. Thailand acts under investigation presumption of guilt.

So after you must give proof :

1 . You do not kbnow its be fake stamp

2. You do not make this is stamp and do not order for some do for you FAKE.

I do not think that the damage of the passport is a criminal offense. In most countries it is a civil case and a maximum fine.

Even if there is proof that you are especially damage passport.

And it is not necessary to speak the truth ne at the embassy. I do not think that there is a section in the form of asking where specifically you damaged(lost) passport or not

Edited December 23, 2015 by ardokano

[taotoo]

Any time you break the law there is risk. If the agency gets busted and they have kept records then that risk will go up. If you've unknowingly received a dodgy stamp why then commit a criminal offence in an effort to resolve it - makes no sense.

What kinde crime? If damage or lost passport its crime please give article.

But fake stamp its crime if used( give to any to representative government in Thailand)

just only fake stamp in passport its NOT crime. And When you know stamp its fake and give passport for officer immigration you go to crime. Thailand acts under investigation presumption of guilt.

So after you must give proof :

1 . You do not kbnow its be fake stamp

2. You do not make this is stamp and do not order for some do for you FAKE.

I do not think that the damage of the passport is a criminal offense. In most countries it is a civil case and a maximum fine.

Even if there is proof that you are especially damage passport.

And it is not necessary to speak the truth ne at the embassy. I do not think that there is a section in the form of asking where specifically you damaged(lost) passport or not

Explained above. The application for the next passport will likely be fradulant.

[luk AJ]

Could this be a fishing expedition from Immigration trolls to see how TV members would react or advise?

I guess if you used an agent, the agent is the one who has committed an offence, you acted in good faith.

If there is an issue, refer Immigration to the issuing/(acting on your behalf) agent. Covers your ass and puts a corrupt agent out of business.

I was thinking the same.. For a troll it is not trolly enough:) The poster cannot know if stamp is false or real so the chance this is a test is quite high IMO.

[ardokano]

Explained above. The application for the next passport will likely be fradulant.

That you expect?Or it is a fact based on the article of the law?

[taotoo]

Explained above. The application for the next passport will likely be fradulant.

That you expect?Or it is a fact based on the article of the law?

The former as it's just common sense. But here's an example of the latter anyway (USA):

WARNING: False statements made knowingly and willfully in passport applications, including affidavits or other documents submitted to support

this application, are punishable by fine and/or imprisonment under U.S. law including the provisions of 18 U.S.C. 1001, 18 U.S.C. 1542, and/or 18

U.S.C. 1621. Alteration or mutilation of a passport issued pursuant to this application is punishable by fine and/or imprisonment under the

provisions of 18 U.S.C. 1543. The use of a passport in violation of the restrictions contained herein or of the passport regulations is punishable

by fine and/or imprisonment under 18 U.S.C. 1544. All statements and documents are subject to verification.

[Yumthai]

Explained above. The application for the next passport will likely be fradulant.

That you expect?Or it is a fact based on the article of the law?

The former as it's just common sense. But here's an example of the latter anyway (USA):

WARNING: False statements made knowingly and willfully in passport applications, including affidavits or other documents submitted to support

this application, are punishable by fine and/or imprisonment under U.S. law including the provisions of 18 U.S.C. 1001, 18 U.S.C. 1542, and/or 18

U.S.C. 1621. Alteration or mutilation of a passport issued pursuant to this application is punishable by fine and/or imprisonment under the

provisions of 18 U.S.C. 1543. The use of a passport in violation of the restrictions contained herein or of the passport regulations is punishable

by fine and/or imprisonment under 18 U.S.C. 1544. All statements and documents are subject to verification.

If one makes a false statement (either passport lost or washed intentionally) ... Who else will ever know the truth?

[twwy123]

Faking immigration stamps is a serious offense, Thai immigration does not take it lightly and they'll almost certainly notice. People have ended up in prison because of such things, including a notable case of a guy (European nobleman) who slightly altered the number on his entry stamp, got thrown in the gaol and died there a few weeks later. Not fun.

Coming clean and going to immigration directly is unlikely to absolve the OP of the crime. It amounts to an admission of guilt, and when it goes to court (which it likely will), he might get a more lenient sentence than if caught. Even if he's lucky to encounter an extremely benevolent immigration official, what can he do? Cross out the stamp with a note "ignore obvious fraud here" to the next officer?

Obtaining the new passport is the only realistic way out. It is ridiculous how much fuss people here raise about reporting a lost/damaged/replaced passport. It's not a big deal, embassies replace passports all the time.

Sure, it might technically be minor fraud to claim your passport was lost when it wasn't, but there's not even a need to lie (it fell down the gutter... got left in the washer... fell into Khlong Saen Saep from an express boat, and I sure ain't diving in there). Thai police, U.S. government or Interpol are not exactly going to launch a massive investigation to prove that OP's negligence in taking care of his passport might have been intentional. Even if the consular officer has his suspicions, he's not going to deny the citizen a new passport - worst comes to worst, he gets put on some list, and has to endure secondary screening each time he travels in the future (unlikely, but I've heard of this happening). Still way, way, better than Thai prison.

Now, is it better to damage or lose the old passport? I'd go for damage, since that wouldn't require a police report. OP is on overstay which is not a big matter to deal with at an airport (maximum fine 20k baht), but if caught by the Thai police (with a theft/loss he'd have to go to them), they might decide to arrest him right there.

Proper procedure upon issuing a new passport is to take both the old and the new one to Thai immigration to have the stamps transferred... since OP is also on overstay, this might be tricky, and it might be better to go straight to the airport (unless advised otherwise by the embassy). Border agents have entry records in the computer, but taking copies of the info page and the visa/entry stamp/departure card (without the fraudulent stamp visible), could only help resolve the matter easier.

[jspill]

people have gone on for three pages here without even asking themselves whether the OP is trolling?

it was his first post and no further responses or questions answered (particularly the one about how does he know it was a fakewithout at least some prior knowledge).

Obviously one assumes it's an existing member who knows that there are some really twisted TVF members would jump at the chance to report him for being on overstay.

[jspill]

When he applies for a new passport checks will be made to make sure he's not on an overstay and the can of worms is opened. The questions will start and he will have to explain the coincidence of losing a passport whilst on overstay. Then he'll have to to justify the offence of making a false statement to obtain a passport which could result in his being denied a new passport.

I'm not sure checks are actually made, I've applied for a new passport while on overstay, had no issues. At least for UK passports, renewals are done at the UK visa application centre at the Trendy building on Suk Soi 13, it's not their job to check one's Thailand visa status.

Edited December 23, 2015 by jspill

[JLCrab]

From the above re the dog chewing a Passport or a trip through the washing machine explaining the circumstances that 'accidentally' caused such damage to US Government property from State department website:

If you need to replace your damaged passport, you will need to submit the following in person:

• The damaged passport;
• A signed statement explaining the damaged or mutilated condition of your passport book and/or card;

I really can't believe all the posts on here that suggest one should file a false report at least with the US Government -- or I guess I can which is I frequent with so few farang here in Thailand.

Where you see some talk about FALSE report?

All speak only the truth. Its not crime If you lose a passport or a drop in the sea. Or in the washing machine damage .

If its crime. Please give us an article of the law

Where some talk about false report? Post #2

Article of US Law?

(18 U.S.C. § 1001) is the common name for the United States federal crime laid out in Section 1001 of Title 18 of the United States Code, which generally prohibits knowingly and willfully making false or fraudulent statements, or concealing information, in "any matter within the jurisdiction" of the federal government of the United States. (Wikipedia)

But is instructive to read of all the persons here on ThaiVisa whose analysis of Thai law or the laws of the country issuing their passport is: Well how would they find out I wasn't telling them the truth???

Edited December 23, 2015 by JLCrab

[chrisinth]

From the above re the dog chewing a Passport or a trip through the washing machine explaining the circumstances that 'accidentally' caused such damage to US Government property from State department website:

If you need to replace your damaged passport, you will need to submit the following in person:

• The damaged passport;
• A signed statement explaining the damaged or mutilated condition of your passport book and/or card;

I really can't believe all the posts on here that suggest one should file a false report at least with the US Government -- or I guess I can which is I frequent with so few farang here in Thailand.

Where you see some talk about FALSE report?

All speak only the truth. Its not crime If you lose a passport or a drop in the sea. Or in the washing machine damage .

If its crime. Please give us an article of the law

Although I can't give you a link, as I expect every country has different wording, but I could almost guarantee that to knowingly deface an official document (belonging to your country of origin) is indeed a crime.

If it is accidental that is another story as accidents do happen. If your conscience allows you to not differentiate between the two and you are prepared to file a false account of what happened (knowingly defacing the official document as opposed to accidentally defacing said item) then make it so, carry on.

Difficult to prove otherwise if done properly..........................

[protectyourcultures]

I reregistered an account on here on seeing this post.

About 6 years ago, a pal of mine from the USA had the same problem. An 'agent' did his visa run for him (but didn't!). The result was, that when he presented himself at the Cambo/Thai border a few months later, the fake was spotted. He had no idea it was fake.

He ended up in a cell for two days until his family bailed him out. He told me it cost his family close to 1m baht to wipe his 'record' clean and allow him to stay in LOS. This was a few years ago, but I would avoid the border with a fake stamp. I would suggest a lawyer...or if finances dictate 'losing' your passport is not a bad option (and then paying the overstay at the border). With regards to the case I mention, the guy told me the police took no action against the 'agent' who was advertising his 'travel free visa run' service in his window.

Lesson? Don't mess around with visas, but I'm sure you realise that now. Jeez...I had to return to the UK to do an Education degree in order to get another. Play by the rules.

Edited December 24, 2015 by protectyourcultures

[ubonjoe]

Time to end the discussion of reporting a passport lost or stolen. Three pages is more than enough of it. I have removed the last few posts and one calling the OP a troll.

[Jay1]

I'm not sure what the best solution is with this. Wash/lose the passport or report it to immigration, but without a doubt the most stupid thing to do would be to try to pass border control with it!!!

A couple who worked at my school via an agency a couple of years ago were on a visa extension, which their agency got for them for a fee.They then both decided to go and work in Myanmar, and left with no problems.

At Xmas they decided to fly home and their route home was via Bangkok. When they got their passport checked in bkk it was spotted that their extensions were fakes. The couple had absolutely no idea that they were fake.They got arrested and spent at least a month in jail before they were released. Their family hired a good lawyer and it was a case of they had to prove their innocence rather than the police prove their guilt. Their lawyer found out that the agency had previous regarding fake visas.. But it took over a month for this to be sorted.

So whatever you decide, do not try to pass it off as legit, as how the hell will you be able to prove you are innocent?? You won't be innocent as you now know it's a fake. You'll be screwed.

If you decide to report to immigration then make sure you go with a Thai friend who can explain in correctly that you had absolutely nothing to do with this and as soon as you discovered it was fake, you reported it.. Make this clear!!!!

Good luck! I do find that by telling no lies there is nothing you can forget.

[mpa]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/881796-passport-not-returned-by-visa-companyoverstayed/?p=10259325

[Maestro]

Removed a troll post.

[maisodni]

Your problem is bigger than overstay. See Section 251 of the Thai Penal Code: http://www.samuiforsale.com/law-texts/thailand-penal-code.html#249

One to seven years in prison - and a small fine.

It is best to face overstay, but not allow evidence of forgery of a government "seal" (stamp) to continue to exist.

Good luck.

MS

[arminbkk]

There are some really dense posters on here.

The discussion about the "filing a false report for lost passport" is that someone suggested the OP "pretends" to have lost his passport and to go apply for a new one.

It is standard procedure to get a police report when one has lost his passport...........for whatever reason it is lost...........actually lost, or stolen.

If you file a police report for a lost passport......when in fact the passport is not really lost.....but you just pretend it is lost..........you are filing a false police report.

You then use that false police report to apply for new passport. The use of a false police report to apply for new passport is a crime (and so is filing

a police report under false pretext, a crime).

What the OP should do?

I don't know. Maybe he should just take a chance and book a flight out of BKK.....report at immigration at airport, ready to pay overstay fine,

and if they detect the false visa stamp, just pretend he did not know.

Or just report himself to immigration at airport and tell them he just found out he has overstayed his permission to stay and that he at the same time

found out that the stamp is not genuine.

Anyway, I only read through the comments until page 3, so don't know if OP has come back here or what the outcome was, if any.

[KhunBENQ]

What the OP should do?

The OP should come back to the thread and give feedback.

Don't you think so?

Newbie, 1 post, not seen since 23 DEC.

Just saying (again)

Edited January 2, 2016 by KhunBENQ

[visarunner]

What the OP should do?

The OP should come back to the thread and give feedback.

Don't you think so?

Newbie, 1 post, not seen since 23 DEC.

Just saying (again)

I have seen his stamp and confirm that it is a fake. I gave him advise on how to do best.

Not sure of what he actually decided to do.

[dutchisaan]

What the OP should do?

The OP should come back to the thread and give feedback.

Don't you think so?

Newbie, 1 post, not seen since 23 DEC.

Just saying (again)

I have seen his stamp and confirm that it is a fake. I gave him advise on how to do best.

Not sure of what he actually decided to do.

If to OP post here to ask a question, than he can let the people on this form know that the problem is solved!

And after that he can ask the mod to close this post!

Edited January 2, 2016 by dutchisaan

[Gulfsailor]

What the OP should do?

The OP should come back to the thread and give feedback.

Don't you think so?

Newbie, 1 post, not seen since 23 DEC.

Just saying (again)

I have seen his stamp and confirm that it is a fake. I gave him advise on how to do best.

Not sure of what he actually decided to do.

If to OP post here to ask a question, than he can let the people on this form know that the problem is solved!

And after that he can ask the mod to close this post!

Do they offer internet at the IDC or in jail? Would explain the absence of the OP...

[twwy123]

If you file a police report for a lost passport......when in fact the passport is not really lost.....but you just pretend it is lost..........you are filing a false police report.You then use that false police report to apply for new passport. The use of a false police report to apply for new passport is a crime (and so is filing a police report under false pretext, a crime).

I agree this is a heinous crime and shows highest degree of moral turpitude.

Two questions for you: (1) what damage did such a depraved act inflict on other people and (2) what is the likelihood of getting caught and suffering significant consequences? In my estimation, the answers are "none whatsoever" to both.

In addition, you don't have to pretend the passport is lost, you can actually lose it... whether you did the losing willingly or not, now it's lost, cannot be found, and you do have a right to a new one.

The alternative of coming clean and going to Thai immigration with a forged stamp carries 1-7 years in prison as the recent post indicated, and it would be a major miracle if he escaped without significant damage.

Edited January 2, 2016 by twwy123

[gilo]

That visarunner noticed that it was a fake stamp a week plus ago and that the op has not responded is potentially worrying I can only hope that he took whatever was the best advice. An awful situation to be in at the best of times. Some, myself included, have regrettably but ultimately knowingly abused the system in the past and i feel tremendous symapathy for the poor chap in this case and sincerely hope that he was able to clear through immigration and is simply enjoyimg himself rather than in some hell-hole of a detention centre. I have always found Thai immigration to be remarkably tolerant, at least to those who have overstayed and cleared it through the appropriate channels.

As some earlier posters mentioned an overstay is less significant thatnhaving a fake stamp in one's passport. There are however some very sound posters here most notably Ubonjoe and Visarunner (and maybe Badbanker who has assisted some in the proverbial!). On dealing with my own overstay in 2014 I was correctly guided, supported (if not condoned) by UJ and have been grateful since then by the advice on many matters from Visarunner.

If op is reading this I do hope that you are necking a cocktail somewhere; if not then seek the experienced advice of those who have really shown their understanding of the legal and practical matters here and who do so without prejudice imho Good luck.

Edited January 2, 2016 by gilo