MorristheRunt Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 "Warot Tuwichian, 22, will appear with his father, Woraphan, at the Bangkok press conference with national police chief Somyot Pumpanmuang and other concerned authorities." "Mr Woraphan flew from Surat Thani to Bangkok yesterday (October 29) and will meet Pol Gen Somyot at the Royal Thai Police Office at the police chiefs invitation." http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-dna-test-for-koh-tao-ac-bar-owner-son-49385.php How lovely for the Tuvichiens. Do all former police suspects get this special treatment? Maybe they were discussing his new business on Koh Tao, who knows. Does anyone think he really was having a genuine DNA test? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thequietman Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 (edited) I never said the trial was based on the confession, the trial was based only on the police's DNA results which a trainee was able to process in their little police outpost on a Thai island faster than anywhere else in the modern world. The police investigation against the B2 was based on the confessions, after the confessions the police then magically had the DNA connecting them to the case. If it wasn't for the confessions the police had nothing on the B2. So, like you admit, the confessions were not freely expressed so they are not legal. It's just one of dozens of things that were wrong with the investigation. Luckily for you the B2 were in trial in Thailand, one of the few places that would have found them guilty and sentenced them to death on a police say-so. Yes it takes years and years of forensic training to take a DNA swab... If the police are going to lie about torturing confessions from the B2, what is to stop them from lying about the DNA samples which was the reason for the guilty verdict? So you are happy with the B2 being tortured and DNA being taken by somebody who was unqualified and it was used for a death sentence verdict? Taking dna is rubbing a swab inside the mouth, its hardly rocket science. Two young men have been sentenced to death on the basis of a sloppy one page document replete with handwritten amendments and crossings out, including date changes. That's it! Nowhere in the civilized world could such a document be put into evidence and form the basis of a conviction and sentence! forget everything else as this is the basis of this case. The defense team requested that the DNA be retested independently and the court finally, after much time and the trial was already well underway, agreed. The police first stated that the DNA sample was "all used up", which is-in actuality-scientifically impossible! Then the police later (one or two days’ time) stated, "no, it was not all used up. we have some of the solution left." The defense team was granted permission in court to independently retest the sample and so technicians from Dr. Porntip's lab took cheek swabs from both accused boys, in court under close observation, during the court session during which Dr. Porntip testified. BUT, what actually remained of the police's alleged DNA "evidence" to be retested was, in fact, merely the midway solution required in the actual DNA testing process itself. This midpoint solution will give an accurate profile; however, it CANNOT determine the actual ORIGINAL SOURCE of the DNA! Therefore, it will NOT show if original alleged DNA from the female decedent at the crime scene came from "semen" as the Royal Thai Police claim, or if it in fact came from oral mucosa, skin, hair, blood, saliva, cigarette butts, etc. Also, the court demanded that the DNA evidence from Dr. Porntip's lab be returned to the COURT itself and NOT to the defense team!!! Thus, the results and factual information would be completely out of the defense team’s hands and thereby highly susceptible to contamination / falsification. For those two reasons, the defense team then; very wisely, declined retesting. The above is written by an independent concerned citizen who attended every court session of the trial and is written in her own words as she publicly posted it on social media. Edited January 4, 2016 by thequietman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorristheRunt Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 If Panya was wrong with his accusations why no public apology to the "family"? Not a peep from the guy. Maybe he was told never to talk about the investigation ever again, if he did it would not be good for his future. Hence why I can't understand why the defence did not call him as a witness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iReason Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 (edited) "I insist that all officials in this case have done a good job;" Pol Gen Somyot told a press conference in Bangkok, "a perfect job." "I confirm that there was no abuse of any of the suspects," said lead investigater Maj Gen Suwat Chaengyodsook." "During interrogation, the suspects' lawyer was present and physical check-ups were performed on them.” Not hard to confirm that this last statement is an outright LIE. http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-police-defend-koh-tao-investigation-as-suspects-claim-torture-49042.php Edited January 4, 2016 by iReason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorristheRunt Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Well if ONLY the prosecution can dictate the order of the court, then the system is dammed..... And if this is true, I hope the victims two familys are completely aware and realise this is a glorified kangaroo court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iReason Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 For those wondering what happened to Lt-General Panya Manen: "Meanwhile, assistant national police chief Lt-General Jakthip Chaijinda has been instructed to supervise the investigation, taking over from Police Region 8 commander Lt-General Panya Manen who has been promoted to assistant national police chief.""The Police Region 8 chief's post has been filled by Lt-General Decha Butrnamphet, who said later that the same set of investigators would continue working on the case." Except for one... http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Police-promised-cash-reward-to-buy-false-testimony-30244573.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorristheRunt Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 I know for one thing and have said previously, this case would have never made a court room not for one minute in any civilised country. The judge would have thrown it out during the pre court hearings and may well have lambasted the law enforcement authorities for wasting his and the courts time. And IF the authorities and rulers of this country think this is a “prefect Case” and justice has been served, then there is little hope for Thailand future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorristheRunt Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 What's happening is that there is a constant flow of misdirection by a few posters that others respond to, and therefore any nugget of new information is conveniently lost among the regurgitation of the same old dross batted back and forth. Deliberate ploy that should be ignored. Don't waste your energy on these people. They and the system is simply not worth it. Their day will come, they will have to face the truth...the people will decide that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iReason Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 (edited) "Thailand’s military junta has vowed to launch a major anti-vice campaign on the tourist island of Koh Tao following the horrific murders of two British backpackers." "General Prayut Chan-o-cha, the country’s Prime Minister, has ordered an immediate offensive against “influential rackets and illegitimate businesses on the tourist island, and pledged to punish soldiers or police patronizing these people or their activities” "The crackdown would target “mafia-type influential people” I must have missed that immediate "crackdown" in September 2014... "Prachum Ruangthong, the police chief responsible for the island, told The Telegraph: “I have to say 100 per cent there is no mafia in Koh Tao.” http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11120311/Thai-military-launches-anti-vice-crackdown-on-island-where-Britons-died.html Edited January 4, 2016 by iReason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLCrab Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 My view is that the Rtp are protecting their own on koh tao and while the b2 are scapegoats they were involved in some way. No other scenario fits what's happened. “Did you kill them or didn’t you kill them?” the judge asked at one point, according to Mr Hall. “No, we didn’t,” the men replied. The judge then urged the two men to reveal any information they had about the murders, Mr Hall added. “You don’t need to be scared. If you know who did it, tell us.” The men replied that they had been drunk and did not have any information about the crimes. 26 DEC 2014 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11313714/Koh-Tao-murders-suspects-in-killing-of-David-Miller-and-Hannah-Witheridge-say-they-were-framed.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGareth2 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 can't have been that drunk if they went out searching for their possessions not telling the truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenterry Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 My view is that the Rtp are protecting their own on koh tao and while the b2 are scapegoats they were involved in some way. No other scenario fits what's happened.“Did you kill them or didn’t you kill them?” the judge asked at one point, according to Mr Hall.“No, we didn’t,” the men replied. The judge then urged the two men to reveal any information they had about the murders, Mr Hall added. “You don’t need to be scared. If you know who did it, tell us.” The men replied that they had been drunk and did not have any information about the crimes. 26 DEC 2014 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11313714/Koh-Tao-murders-suspects-in-killing-of-David-Miller-and-Hannah-Witheridge-say-they-were-framed.html I am well aware of that. Bearing in mind the circumstances of that court appearance in which the b2 could have been conveniently eliminated once they returned to prison I don't blame them . However, if they expect the truth to emerge they need to facilitate it or stay in prison for the rest of their lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artisi Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 "Warot Tuwichian, 22, will appear with his father, Woraphan, at the Bangkok press conference with national police chief Somyot Pumpanmuang and other concerned authorities." "Mr Woraphan flew from Surat Thani to Bangkok yesterday (October 29) and will meet Pol Gen Somyot at the Royal Thai Police Office at the police chiefs invitation." http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-dna-test-for-koh-tao-ac-bar-owner-son-49385.php How lovely for the Tuvichiens. Do all former police suspects get this special treatment? Sure, if you can afford it, doesn't even need a special hand either.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artisi Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 "Thailand’s military junta has vowed to launch a major anti-vice campaign on the tourist island of Koh Tao following the horrific murders of two British backpackers." "General Prayut Chan-o-cha, the country’s Prime Minister, has ordered an immediate offensive against “influential rackets and illegitimate businesses on the tourist island, and pledged to punish soldiers or police patronizing these people or their activities” "The crackdown would target “mafia-type influential people” I must have missed that immediate "crackdown" in September 2014... "Prachum Ruangthong, the police chief responsible for the island, told The Telegraph: “I have to say 100 per cent there is no mafia in Koh Tao.” http://static.thaivisa.com/forum//public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.png[/img ] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11120311/Thai-military-launches-anti-vice-crackdown-on-island-where-Britons-died.html Seems he may have been over trumped...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWA Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 "Warot Tuwichian, 22, will appear with his father, Woraphan, at the Bangkok press conference with national police chief Somyot Pumpanmuang and other concerned authorities." "Mr Woraphan flew from Surat Thani to Bangkok yesterday (October 29) and will meet Pol Gen Somyot at the Royal Thai Police Office at the police chiefs invitation." http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-dna-test-for-koh-tao-ac-bar-owner-son-49385.php How lovely for the Tuvichiens. Do all former police suspects get this special treatment? Maybe they were discussing his new business on Koh Tao, who knows. Does anyone think he really was having a genuine DNA test? yes!!!! The paternity test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLCrab Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 My view is that the Rtp are protecting their own on koh tao and while the b2 are scapegoats they were involved in some way. No other scenario fits what's happened.“Did you kill them or didn’t you kill them?” the judge asked at one point, according to Mr Hall.“No, we didn’t,” the men replied. The judge then urged the two men to reveal any information they had about the murders, Mr Hall added. “You don’t need to be scared. If you know who did it, tell us.” The men replied that they had been drunk and did not have any information about the crimes. 26 DEC 2014 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11313714/Koh-Tao-murders-suspects-in-killing-of-David-Miller-and-Hannah-Witheridge-say-they-were-framed.html I am well aware of that. Bearing in mind the circumstances of that court appearance in which the b2 could have been conveniently eliminated once they returned to prison I don't blame them . However, if they expect the truth to emerge they need to facilitate it or stay in prison for the rest of their lives Whatever were the circumstances at the time, the Judge asked the two (then) accused a straight question and the 2 then chose to give the above answer which I will not characterize. However, in the summary released 24 DEC 2015, the judges did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aj Mick Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 “Investigators today interrogated Montriwat Toovichien, a 45-year-old bartender at AC Bar on Koh Tao who [is] identified as the man seen in closed-circuit video footage in the hours before the September 15 bludgeoning deaths of Britons David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23.” "Police say they have identified all the suspects and are linking them to the evidence on hand, he said." "Please have confidence in our work. There will be no scapegoats," Lt Gen Panya said said. "The case is being closely watched worldwide and we're working hard to make the case as airtight as possible." http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-arrests-expected-today-in-koh-tao-murders-48843.php And then Lt Gen Panya promptly got taken off the job……. Hauled in the "wrong" suspects, it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asiamaster Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Did anyone see him getting on/off the plane or at the airports (Bangkok / Chumpae) going and coming to Koh Tao? His pictures were plastered all over the media and the net. Or are you saying the Mafia paid off all the airport staff, all the passengers etc. etc. ? What's next? He took a private jet? Not impossible if you have a wild imagination.... Interesting! Let me ask another question: did anyone ever ask for anything about this? The boat-driver/ caveman: no interest in him! CCTV- footage from the pier: deemed uninteresting, not worth looking at! Telephone- records: nope, no need! Airline- manifestos: naaaah...sure nothing on there... Most people on an early flight (I take many- I know!) are busy either with prepairing their work or fighting of sleep. No one at the time knew, that they might look at a double- murder and rapist at that moment and thanks to the diversion- tactics, never got the idea, they might have shared a flight with him at anytime! Your "thoughts" on this? He was a suspect for the first couple of days and it was all over the news. So nobody saw him at the airport or in that plane? Not even an air hostess? Oh yes I get it: they were all sorted out beforehand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joebrown Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 The case didn't particulary interest me to be honest. It was just a case of wrong place wrong time, shame it happened but it did. Nothing about the case will stop any tourists visiting Thailand. Its yesterdays news. Have you any connection with TAT? TAT and all Thai authorities are more interested in the effect this case has on tourism rather than the deceased, their families and more importantly JUSTICE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thequietman Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Did anyone see him getting on/off the plane or at the airports (Bangkok / Chumpae) going and coming to Koh Tao? His pictures were plastered all over the media and the net. Or are you saying the Mafia paid off all the airport staff, all the passengers etc. etc. ? What's next? He took a private jet? Not impossible if you have a wild imagination.... Interesting! Let me ask another question: did anyone ever ask for anything about this? The boat-driver/ caveman: no interest in him! CCTV- footage from the pier: deemed uninteresting, not worth looking at! Telephone- records: nope, no need! Airline- manifestos: naaaah...sure nothing on there... Most people on an early flight (I take many- I know!) are busy either with prepairing their work or fighting of sleep. No one at the time knew, that they might look at a double- murder and rapist at that moment and thanks to the diversion- tactics, never got the idea, they might have shared a flight with him at anytime! Your "thoughts" on this? He was a suspect for the first couple of days and it was all over the news. So nobody saw him at the airport or in that plane? Not even an air hostess? Oh yes I get it: they were all sorted out beforehand... If he was a real suspect as you say, then why didn't they check his phone records. Surely if his handset pinged off a tower in KT, it would prove that he was there. If in Bangkok then records would show he was there. Quite simple but they didn't ask for these records. It's little things like this that plant the seeds of doubt. Surely you appreciate that ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thequietman Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 can't have been that drunk if they went out searching for their possessions not telling the truth Take a moment and think will you please ! If you were in Jail for a crime you didn't do, would you tell the judge you knew anything knowing full well that you would be returned to prison while they 'investigate' your allegation ? You wouldn't make it through the night. Saying they were drunk allows them to deny knowing anything. You can bet if they were released and returned home then maybe.........just maybe, they might be a bit more forthcoming. Even then they might still be in danger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artisi Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 can't have been that drunk if they went out searching for their possessions not telling the truth . Would you be interested in naming names if you were in custody with every chance you might just stop breathing one night--- wouldn't think so.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artisi Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Did anyone see him getting on/off the plane or at the airports (Bangkok / Chumpae) going and coming to Koh Tao? His pictures were plastered all over the media and the net. Or are you saying the Mafia paid off all the airport staff, all the passengers etc. etc. ? What's next? He took a private jet? Not impossible if you have a wild imagination.... Interesting!Let me ask another question: did anyone ever ask for anything about this? The boat-driver/ caveman: no interest in him! CCTV- footage from the pier: deemed uninteresting, not worth looking at! Telephone- records: nope, no need! Airline- manifestos: naaaah...sure nothing on there... Most people on an early flight (I take many- I know!) are busy either with prepairing their work or fighting of sleep. No one at the time knew, that they might look at a double- murder and rapist at that moment and thanks to the diversion- tactics, never got the idea, they might have shared a flight with him at anytime! Your "thoughts" on this? He was a suspect for the first couple of days and it was all over the news. So nobody saw him at the airport or in that plane? Not even an air hostess? Oh yes I get it: they were all sorted out beforehand... If he was a real suspect as you say, then why didn't they check his phone records. Surely if his handset pinged off a tower in KT, it would prove that he was there. If in Bangkok then records would show he was there. Quite simple but they didn't ask for these records. It's little things like this that plant the seeds of doubt. Surely you appreciate that ! Don't engage the trolls....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AleG Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 My view is that the Rtp are protecting their own on koh tao and while the b2 are scapegoats they were involved in some way. No other scenario fits what's happened.“Did you kill them or didn’t you kill them?” the judge asked at one point, according to Mr Hall.“No, we didn’t,” the men replied. The judge then urged the two men to reveal any information they had about the murders, Mr Hall added. “You don’t need to be scared. If you know who did it, tell us.” The men replied that they had been drunk and did not have any information about the crimes. 26 DEC 2014 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11313714/Koh-Tao-murders-suspects-in-killing-of-David-Miller-and-Hannah-Witheridge-say-they-were-framed.html I am well aware of that. Bearing in mind the circumstances of that court appearance in which the b2 could have been conveniently eliminated once they returned to prison I don't blame them . However, if they expect the truth to emerge they need to facilitate it or stay in prison for the rest of their lives We've been hearing the "they'll be killed in prison" since the day after they were arrested. Time to change that pony I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AleG Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 “Investigators today interrogated Montriwat Toovichien, a 45-year-old bartender at AC Bar on Koh Tao who [is] identified as the man seen in closed-circuit video footage in the hours before the September 15 bludgeoning deaths of Britons David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23.” "Police say they have identified all the suspects and are linking them to the evidence on hand, he said." "Please have confidence in our work. There will be no scapegoats," Lt Gen Panya said said. "The case is being closely watched worldwide and we're working hard to make the case as airtight as possible." http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-arrests-expected-today-in-koh-tao-murders-48843.php And then Lt Gen Panya promptly got taken off the job……. Hauled in the "wrong" suspects, it seems. That's the mantra from the Truthers; reality is that he was promoted 7 days after, as scheduled since before the murders; but not before announcing the arrests of the two Burmese the day before it happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGareth2 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Did anyone see him getting on/off the plane or at the airports (Bangkok / Chumpae) going and coming to Koh Tao? His pictures were plastered all over the media and the net. Or are you saying the Mafia paid off all the airport staff, all the passengers etc. etc. ? What's next? He took a private jet? Not impossible if you have a wild imagination.... Interesting! Let me ask another question: did anyone ever ask for anything about this? The boat-driver/ caveman: no interest in him! CCTV- footage from the pier: deemed uninteresting, not worth looking at! Telephone- records: nope, no need! Airline- manifestos: naaaah...sure nothing on there... Most people on an early flight (I take many- I know!) are busy either with prepairing their work or fighting of sleep. No one at the time knew, that they might look at a double- murder and rapist at that moment and thanks to the diversion- tactics, never got the idea, they might have shared a flight with him at anytime! Your "thoughts" on this? He was a suspect for the first couple of days and it was all over the news. So nobody saw him at the airport or in that plane? Not even an air hostess? Oh yes I get it: they were all sorted out beforehand... If he was a real suspect as you say, then why didn't they check his phone records. Surely if his handset pinged off a tower in KT, it would prove that he was there. If in Bangkok then records would show he was there. Quite simple but they didn't ask for these records. It's little things like this that plant the seeds of doubt. Surely you appreciate that ! did they check any records? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AleG Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Did anyone see him getting on/off the plane or at the airports (Bangkok / Chumpae) going and coming to Koh Tao? His pictures were plastered all over the media and the net. Or are you saying the Mafia paid off all the airport staff, all the passengers etc. etc. ? What's next? He took a private jet? Not impossible if you have a wild imagination.... Interesting! Let me ask another question: did anyone ever ask for anything about this? The boat-driver/ caveman: no interest in him! CCTV- footage from the pier: deemed uninteresting, not worth looking at! Telephone- records: nope, no need! Airline- manifestos: naaaah...sure nothing on there... Most people on an early flight (I take many- I know!) are busy either with prepairing their work or fighting of sleep. No one at the time knew, that they might look at a double- murder and rapist at that moment and thanks to the diversion- tactics, never got the idea, they might have shared a flight with him at anytime! Your "thoughts" on this? He was a suspect for the first couple of days and it was all over the news. So nobody saw him at the airport or in that plane? Not even an air hostess? Oh yes I get it: they were all sorted out beforehand... Actually he was a suspect between the 23rd and the 25th of September (somehow the Truthers view this as "he was hiding from police for over a week"). From the time that social media sleuths pointed a finger at him to the time their alibi was firmly established. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AleG Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Did anyone see him getting on/off the plane or at the airports (Bangkok / Chumpae) going and coming to Koh Tao? His pictures were plastered all over the media and the net. Or are you saying the Mafia paid off all the airport staff, all the passengers etc. etc. ? What's next? He took a private jet? Not impossible if you have a wild imagination.... Interesting! Let me ask another question: did anyone ever ask for anything about this? The boat-driver/ caveman: no interest in him! CCTV- footage from the pier: deemed uninteresting, not worth looking at! Telephone- records: nope, no need! Airline- manifestos: naaaah...sure nothing on there... Most people on an early flight (I take many- I know!) are busy either with prepairing their work or fighting of sleep. No one at the time knew, that they might look at a double- murder and rapist at that moment and thanks to the diversion- tactics, never got the idea, they might have shared a flight with him at anytime! Your "thoughts" on this? He was a suspect for the first couple of days and it was all over the news. So nobody saw him at the airport or in that plane? Not even an air hostess? Oh yes I get it: they were all sorted out beforehand... If he was a real suspect as you say, then why didn't they check his phone records. Surely if his handset pinged off a tower in KT, it would prove that he was there. If in Bangkok then records would show he was there. Quite simple but they didn't ask for these records. It's little things like this that plant the seeds of doubt. Surely you appreciate that ! They checked his phone records, as it transpired during the trial hearings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chetzee Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 .......They checked his phone records, as it transpired during the trial hearings. r u kidding ? why on earth would they do that ....... you tell me ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iReason Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Nomsod in the photos that his lawyers claim as proof he was in Bangkok. With highly dubious time stamps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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