Muslims and Christians in Thailand

[sawadee1947]

Two days a go I went to Promenada. No, not to my friends from Immigration but to RimPing. I was surprised and attracted by Ferrero, fresh Salmon, and real butter and the variety of honey.

When I was standing in front of the honey's shelf I came into contact with a guy from Saudi Arabia. After a short time we were talking about the Christmas offers at RimPing and about Christmas decorations and carols.

He was smiling at the end and looked into my eyes: Do you know we are celebrating the same this yearr? Mohammed was born the same day as your prophet Jesus. To be honest I did not know and was feeling somehow embaressed.

It could be so easy to get along with other religions. What do you think?

Did you have similar cultural encounters? We were talking also about IS and their impact of life. He became very serious and was afraid that all muslims even no relations to islamists would have to pay and to suffer. He told me he sometimes could feel animosities here in Thailand.....

Is this so?

[northernjohn]

No I did not know that and I believe that both picked the date as an arbitrarily good date. It had some symbolic resemblances to the Pagan beliefs for the date.

As far as getting along with them I am working on it. I realize the danger they pose. How ever that is such a small minority of them in reality. They do have a religion that proposes some pretty awful things. But for the most part they are ignored by the people. It is my hope and belief that they will end the terrorism. We can militarily end what is going on today but they are the only ones who can end the belief system that allows it. This has been going on for over a thousand years now.

It is only human nature for him to feel animosities towards them here in Thailand Look at the number of people they have killed in the south.

It is nice to see that occasionally they will have a mass rally against it. A step up from just one person saying it is wrong. Now they are starting to group together. Eventually they will figure it out that it is the teaching they are giving that promotes terrorism.

It will take time and I will not live that long but it will happen. A big push towards it would be for the west to leave them alone and only strike when they are hit at. In America you run a very high risk of being killed in an auto accident. Over 30,000 a year. Compared too that the risk of being killed by a terrorist is almost non existent.

I make no apologies for my beliefs and in no way do I attempt to justify some of their actions.

This post is an open invitation for the Atheists to show their moral and intellectual superiority.

[mamborobert]

Can we kill this one off as having nothing but the most tenuous link to CM and perhaps move to a more appropriate forum?

Taking the religion aspect out ...Saudi Arabia verses Thailand ..., Thailand has a few problems for sure but........Saudi Arabia (Wahabi based) being known as it were for it's many forms of institutionalised "tolerances", gender equality, smiling people, judicial procedures and penalties, press and other freedoms, democracy. and generally laid back culture......the list goes on and on.

Getting along with other religions is relatively easy...even in Thailand for the most part, getting along with totally alien, value wise (dare I say inferior), "culture" is decidedly harder.

Perhaps the animosity is more driven by cultural behaviours rather than religion.... they can and should be separated..

As a side the Prophet's birthday is celebrated by different Islamic sects on different days, and even in different countries (In Pakistan it past a week ago).

The Prophet's birthday (Mawid Al Nabi) is a movable date on the on the Gregorian calendar. This year celebrated in early January and on December 24th in Saudi Arabia.....perhaps your Saudi friend should be the one feeling embarrassed .......unless Christmas was yesterday in which case I apologise.

Edited December 25, 2015 by mamborobert

[seedy]

Post Hidden - Racist and Troll / Flaming

It has been decided by the Moderating team to allow this Topic to continue.

Please try to extend the Values of the Season - Tolerance of Others, Best Wishes to all, etc.

[AyG]

Mohammed was born the same day as your prophet Jesus.

That's one of the most ludicrous things I've read this week. Mo was born hundreds of years after Jesus.

And on top of that, no one really knows when Mo was born. Sunnis think it was the 12th day of Rabi' al-awwal, whilst Shias think it was on the 17th.

Incidentally the use of the phrase "your prophet" is offensive. Mohammed was allegedly "a prophet" (not that he actually did any real prophecy), whilst Jesus was the saviour of mankind.

In the spirit of good will, Merry Christmas to all the Moslem readers.

[NancyL]

Once again google and wikipedia can be your best friends. Like Buddhist holidays, Muslims holidays move around the "fixed" calendar because they're tied to the lunar calendar. I think the OP's new best friend at @Prom was just trying to make the connection that Mohammed is another in the long line of prophets that include Jesus in the Islam faith:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad

And that this year the month of his birth is close to our time of Christmas:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabi%27_al-awwal

Come one, folks, can't you do a little basic internet research about others?

[Farma]

He was just telling you what you wanted to hear.

He forgot to mention

Any celebrations by Saudis will be very discrete and behind closed doors.

Unlike Bahrain, dubai etc there are no shopping centre decorations allowed.

Customs confiscate Xmas decorations being brought in.

If you can find any shops selling trees or Xmas specific decorations they're hidden in a back room out of sight.

In my decades working on and off with Saudis i've only met one who discretely admitted some quietly celebrate the birth of their prophet Esa (Jesus) and that's mainly so the kids enjoy the day.

[millwall_fan]

This year it appears that the prophet Muhammed's birthday is on Christmas Eve and I agree with what I think is the OP's intention - that this constitutes a fine basis for increased tolerance and understanding between Christians and Muslims who together comprise up to 40% of the world's population. Today is a day for peace and goodwill to ALL men (except West Ham supporters obviously).

[Gonsalviz]

Mohammed was born the same day as your prophet Jesus.

That's one of the most ludicrous things I've read this week. Mo was born hundreds of years after Jesus.

And on top of that, no one really knows when Mo was born. Sunnis think it was the 12th day of Rabi' al-awwal, whilst Shias think it was on the 17th.

Incidentally the use of the phrase "your prophet" is offensive. Mohammed was allegedly "a prophet" (not that he actually did any real prophecy), whilst Jesus was the saviour of mankind.

In the spirit of good will, Merry Christmas to all the Moslem readers.

3 generations ago in Thailand no one could tell with any accuracy when any one was born. Nobody cared. January 1 was everyone's birthday. Still is in many cases. 2000+ years ago? Pfft.

[Jingthing]

Post Hidden - Racist and Troll / Flaming

It has been decided by the Moderating team to allow this Topic to continue.

Please try to extend the Values of the Season - Tolerance of Others, Best Wishes to all, etc.

My post wasn't trolling or racist. Muslims do eat pork & drink alcohol. You must have led a very sheltered life!

I spent 10 years in Saudi, I know what I'm talking about. You, obviously don't

Reporting from Pattaya, I can confirm the DRINKING but haven't noticed the pork eating.

[Gonsalviz]

The Muslim calendar has 10 months. The Julian calendar as we know has 12. Do the math folks. The 2 birthdays can never align.

[sharktooth]

If you bumped into the same bloke in his own country, trust me... he wouldn't give you the time of day!

[tonray]

I have always found it odd that the three major mono-theistic religions, Christianity, Islam, and Judaism sharing the same GOD, 10 commandments and Old Testament have found a way to distort each other's beliefs through ignorance and exploit the situation for worldly endeavors.

if you identify with any of these 3 religions...you believe essentially the same things, it's just the details of your daily rituals that differ. And all 3 religions in their truest forms espouse the same principal, the Golden Rule. 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you'.

On Christmas day I hope we can all learn something and stop the nonsense keeping the world in the dark and millions suffering.

[CMBob]

Incidentally the use of the phrase "your prophet" is offensive. Mohammed was allegedly "a prophet" (not that he actually did any real prophecy), whilst Jesus was the saviour of mankind.

Many non-Christian religions believe that Jesus was "only" a prophet and they have the right to believe that and call him that. And I hardly find that offensive. Everybody is entitled to their own fairy tale.

[stillbornagain]

Mohammed was born the same day as your prophet Jesus.

That's one of the most ludicrous things I've read this week. Mo was born hundreds of years after Jesus.

And on top of that, no one really knows when Mo was born. Sunnis think it was the 12th day of Rabi' al-awwal, whilst Shias think it was on the 17th.

Incidentally the use of the phrase "your prophet" is offensive. Mohammed was allegedly "a prophet" (not that he actually did any real prophecy), whilst Jesus was the saviour of mankind.

In the spirit of good will, Merry Christmas to all the Moslem readers.

Jews don't believe that Jesus was anyone special at all. If you find the Moslem belief that Jesus was a prophet of God offensive, then what do you think of the utter lack of acknowledgement by Jews of any special status for Jesus at all?

[Jingthing]

Mohammed was born the same day as your prophet Jesus.

That's one of the most ludicrous things I've read this week. Mo was born hundreds of years after Jesus.

And on top of that, no one really knows when Mo was born. Sunnis think it was the 12th day of Rabi' al-awwal, whilst Shias think it was on the 17th.

Incidentally the use of the phrase "your prophet" is offensive. Mohammed was allegedly "a prophet" (not that he actually did any real prophecy), whilst Jesus was the saviour of mankind.

In the spirit of good will, Merry Christmas to all the Moslem readers.

Jews don't believe that Jesus was anyone special at all. If you find the Moslem belief that Jesus was a prophet of God offensive, then what do you think of the utter lack of acknowledgement by Jews of any special status for Jesus at all?

I call it Judaism. That's all.

Looking for Jesus?

You won't find him here. This is a site about Judaism, and Jews don't believe in Jesus.

Jesus is simply not a part of Judaism. He is irrelevant to our religion. To ask a Jew, "why don't you believe in Jesus?" is like asking a Christian, "why don't you believe in Zeus?"

We don't teach anything about Jesus, because he's not part of our religion. In your religious institutions, you study your own religion; you don't study every other religion in the world and explain why they're wrong. We do the same. We don't study why we don't believe in Jesus, because he's simply not a part of our religion. When we discuss Jesus, it's usually in response to attempts to convert Jews, which are more common and more aggressive than most non-Jews realize.

http://www.jewfaq.org/search.shtml?Keywords=jesus

[sappersrest]

All to deep for me ,perhaps should be moved to the theology forum. Happy Holiday everyone.

[stillbornagain]

I call it Judaism. That's all.

Mohammed was born the same day as your prophet Jesus.

That's one of the most ludicrous things I've read this week. Mo was born hundreds of years after Jesus.

And on top of that, no one really knows when Mo was born. Sunnis think it was the 12th day of Rabi' al-awwal, whilst Shias think it was on the 17th.

Incidentally the use of the phrase "your prophet" is offensive. Mohammed was allegedly "a prophet" (not that he actually did any real prophecy), whilst Jesus was the saviour of mankind.

In the spirit of good will, Merry Christmas to all the Moslem readers.

Jews don't believe that Jesus was anyone special at all. If you find the Moslem belief that Jesus was a prophet of God offensive, then what do you think of the utter lack of acknowledgement by Jews of any special status for Jesus at all?

Looking for Jesus?

You won't find him here. This is a site about Judaism, and Jews don't believe in Jesus.

Jesus is simply not a part of Judaism. He is irrelevant to our religion. To ask a Jew, "why don't you believe in Jesus?" is like asking a Christian, "why don't you believe in Zeus?"

We don't teach anything about Jesus, because he's not part of our religion. In your religious institutions, you study your own religion; you don't study every other religion in the world and explain why they're wrong. We do the same. We don't study why we don't believe in Jesus, because he's simply not a part of our religion. When we discuss Jesus, it's usually in response to attempts to convert Jews, which are more common and more aggressive than most non-Jews realize.

http://www.jewfaq.org/search.shtml?Keywords=jesus

Yours is the reasonable response. Has AyG appointed you to be his spokesperson? If not, maybe you should let him speak for himself. And by the way, it's not quite true about Jesus not figuring at all in Judaism. Read this: http://www.slate.com/articles/life/faithbased/2009/12/holy_night.html To be honest, I never knew of this holiday (?) until yesterday.

Edited December 25, 2015 by stillbornagain

[DogNo1]

Suggested reading is the latest Tom Harris book "Islam and Tolerance." The common notion of some liberals is that all religions are fundamentally the same. They are not. "God is not One." is another recommended book. Incidentally, for the belief that Jesus is not sacred and simply an important prophet, see the Eastern Orthodox branch of the Christian religion.

[Loaded]

You've got to be daft to believe those Christian, Muslim and Jewish fairy tales. Why not have the self belief to discover your own reality and not believe blindly what you are told. The opium of the masses keeps populations docile and easy to manipulate.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Suggested reading is the latest Tom Harris book "Islam and Tolerance." The common notion of some liberals is that all religions are fundamentally the same.

Well, in the sense that they're all silly superstition and overall a lot more likely to do harm than good, yes that's fundamentally the same.

[AyG]

The opium of the masses keeps populations docile and easy to manipulate.

That doesn't seem to be working for Islamic State or Hezbollah or Laskar-e-Taiba or Abu Sayyaf or al-Qa'eda or Al Aqsa's Martyr Brigade or Al Shabaab or Boko Haram or Hamas or Islamic Jihad or Ansar Al-Islam or Ansar Al-sharia or Jaish-e-Mohammed or Moro Islamic Liberation Front or Tawhid Jihad or... well, you get the idea.

[millwall_fan]

So a thread intended to promote tolerance between Muslims and Christians at a time when, coincidentally, their birthdays are in alignment, gets hijacked by atheists who have nothing positive to offer so attack and trivialise the beliefs of others, by an irrelevant sidetrack about Judaism and by the post above which is falling into the trap of believing that more than a tiny minority of Muslims support the violent antics of the groups he lists.

I pray for unity between Christians and Muslims at this special time for both religions and for mutual understanding between both and between them and Jews, Buddhists, Hindus and Sikhs. May we all live together as God's children and may atheists be taught the error of their ways. Amen!

[tonray]

So a thread intended to promote tolerance between Muslims and Christians at a time when, coincidentally, their birthdays are in alignment, gets hijacked by atheists who have nothing positive to offer so attack and trivialise the beliefs of others, by an irrelevant sidetrack about Judaism and by the post above which is falling into the trap of believing that more than a tiny minority of Muslims support the violent antics of the groups he lists.

I pray for unity between Christians and Muslims at this special time for both religions and for mutual understanding between both and between them and Jews, Buddhists, Hindus and Sikhs. May we all live together as God's children and may atheists be taught the error of their ways. Amen!

I have a feeling when we all finally meet our maker...rather than a loving embrace...we just might get a smack upside the head...."<deleted> ...you morons ?"

[AyG]

falling into the trap of believing that more than a tiny minority of Muslims support the violent antics of the groups he lists.

Except the reality is that it's not "a tiny minority". The vast majority of Moslems does not oppose such violent action. As was published in the press yesterday, in the UK only a tiny proportion of referrals (less than 10%) of would be terrorists to the government's Prevent programme came from within the Moslem communities - the very communities that are in the best position to root out extremism. In other words, at best they tolerate religious terrorism, at worst they actively support it. What is abundantly clear is that they are not against it.

It would be nice to believe that all religions are peace loving and tolerant. The truth, however, is that one is not.

Source: http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/dec/25/prevent-programme-lacking-referrals-from-muslim-community

[TheSiemReaper]

Note: Christians cannot agree on the day of Jesus' birth either. Check out when Christmas occurs in Ethiopia (for example). And for those tempted to dismiss Ethiopia - it is one of the most significant areas of Christian cultural development and has been a rich source for Christian texts lost to the West.

Christians and Muslims believe in the same god and share a ton of the same prophets. They are people of the book. Jesus (Isa to Muslims) is also a sacred figure in Islam.

[stillbornagain]

Mohammed was born the same day as your prophet Jesus.

And on top of that, no one really knows when Mo was born. Sunnis think it was the 12th day of Rabi' al-awwal, whilst Shias think it was on the 17th.

Do you actually believe that Christians, or anyone for that matter, know when Jesus was born?

[stillbornagain]

The Muslim calendar has 10 months. The Julian calendar as we know has 12. Do the math folks. The 2 birthdays can never align.

Nope. From Wikipedia: "This article is about the lunar Hijri calendar. For the solar calendar whose first year is fixed to the Hijra, see Solar Hijri calendar. The Islamic calendar, Muslim calendar or Hijri calendar (AH) is a lunar calendar consisting of 12 months in a year of 354 days."

The Solar Hijri calendar ... is the official calendar of Iran and Afghanistan. It begins on the vernal equinox as determined by astronomical calculation for the Iran Standard Time meridian (52.5°E or GMT+3.5h). This determination of starting moment is more accurate than the Gregorian calendar for predicting the date of the vernal equinox, because it uses astronomical observations rather than mathematical rules.^[2]

Each of the twelve months corresponds with a zodiac sign. The first six months have 31 days, the next five have 30 days, and the last month has 29 days in usual years but 30 days in leap years. The New Year's Day always falls on the March equinox.

[tonray]

Mohammed was born the same day as your prophet Jesus.

And on top of that, no one really knows when Mo was born. Sunnis think it was the 12th day of Rabi' al-awwal, whilst Shias think it was on the 17th.

Do you actually believe that Christians, or anyone for that matter, know when Jesus was born?

Most people can't even remember their wife's birthday for crying out loud

[nkped]

The topic is Christians and Muslims in Thailand. As some of you may know, St. Nikolaus Catholic Church in Pattaya is right next to a mosque on Sukhumvit. When St. Nikolaus has a special event which may tax it's rather limited parking space, they will post a suggestion that people may park at the mosque. Seems the Thais are handling this kind of thing better than the rest of us.