SURVEY: Do you believe the 2 Burmese found guilty of the Koh Tao Murders are guilty?

[z42]

There is more evidence linking father christmas to the act of actually killing the 2 victims.

Despite what Michael Miller and his family think, the evidence and testimony that was presented in the trial was for the large part inconsistent, incomplete, and unable to be verified by independent agencies.

I am not going to criticize the judges verdict, I am however going to shake my head at the rationale used to arrive at the verdict (given in the official press release documents). For example, a roti seller is an acceptable substitute for a translator for 2 accused persons in a murder trial because he is able to have "a passable conversation" with the accused.

The whole investigation and trial was a fiasco, and such a view is shared by 1000's of others worldwide who have taken to the streets to make such feelings known.

The Lawyers council of Thailand has declared them as innocent, as such, bail should be given and they be put under strict house arrest (or in the embassy's custody) until such a time as the appeal is heard.

[Charly2007]

Simply, NO!

[Jingthing]

What do you reckon is THAI public opinion on this question? 99 percent think guilty?

[taony]

Of course they are not. But we live in the fourth world. So we are told they did it and that we need to trust the fools in charge.

[puukao]

i believe everything the media tells me...

i am a slave to my iphone, xbox, ps4, internet..

the money is in sports, not using your brain..

ok, back to minecraft!!!!

[Liquorice]

Very interesting news article being run by the BBC back in the UK.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-35170419

I guess it's not just the members of this forum that feel they were unfairly tried.

[arrowsdawdle]

Found guilty by a court of law good enough for me

"....all good people turn their heads each day so satisfied..."

[docshock13]

Found guilty by a court of law good enough for me

"....all good people turn their heads each day so satisfied..."

YES ?

[arrowsdawdle]

Very interesting news article being run by the BBC back in the UK.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-35170419

I guess it's not just the members of this forum that feel they were unfairly tried.

Excellent article by a true journalist, but it may be more accurate to say the B2 were declared rather than tried.

[NCFC]

The B2 went back to the crime scene at 5am to clean up, retreive their belongings, drag David Miller into the water, and wash the blood from their bodies in the sea. If murder and rape wasn't enough they then stole David's phone which they discovered during the cleanup. It's a pity their execution is not going to be shown live as a deterrent to other itinerant misfits.

[jing jing]

The B2 went back to the crime scene at 5am to clean up, retreive their belongings, drag David Miller into the water, and wash the blood from their bodies in the sea. If murder and rape wasn't enough they then stole David's phone which they discovered during the cleanup. It's a pity their execution is not going to be shown live as a deterrent to other itinerant misfits.

Itinerant misfits? They were working hard to eke out a meagre living, more than can be said for some of the obviously bigoted and bloodthirsty members of the TV peanut gallery.

Besides which, the "facts" presented above are so hopelessly mangled as to be nonsensical.

[never me]

I have to keep my mouth shut "NO Freedom of speech in this country."

[berybert]

The B2 went back to the crime scene at 5am to clean up, retreive their belongings, drag David Miller into the water, and wash the blood from their bodies in the sea. If murder and rape wasn't enough they then stole David's phone which they discovered during the cleanup. It's a pity their execution is not going to be shown live as a deterrent to other itinerant misfits.

What a nasty little man you are.

[berybert]

I think it would put the story to rest if the UK did get a semen sample and have a DNA profile (which going by the Millers reaction I think they did) I think there is evidence that the public are not informed about.

You can tell what has been done by looking at his reaction " amazing" so they're guilty in your opinion ?

The only DNA found was supposed to have been found in Hannah. Now why would the Millar family be happy with the verdict yet Hannah's family are not ?

Do you think Hannah's family were not told ?

[englishoak]

So over 92% think they didnt do it.....hmmm

about 500 votes, almost Dusit poll size..but truly independent and free, mmmm interesting

Ive sent the link to the BBC and a couple of papers in the UK, gotta be of interest to one of them.

Perhaps people would like to share the poll results on twitter etc and let people know what the expat community think for a change.

[jacko45k]

Why only yes and no? What about doubt?

Although we have not been witness to the trial, pretend you are a juror.

If you have doubt, surely it must be 'Not Guilty'......rather than be executioner too.

[manarak]

is there a good article wrapping up the case anywhere listing what evidence was found?

I read one victim's family was completely convinced of the culpability of the sentenced.

[waldroj]

manarak,

In another article on TV, we are told by a spokesman of the Courts of Justice that the decision was based on evidence and the summary was now available for everyone to view (in English).

Unfortunately, we are not told where that summary can be found - see http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?/topic/882014-Myanmar-military-chief-weighs-in-on-Koh-Tao-murder-case

Edited December 27, 2015 by waldroj

[jerojero]

Feel sorry for the families, looking for closure, fooled into believing Thai authorities findings in any way. Those outsiders who genuinely know of the workings of RTP, some legitimately contributing to this forum, know the truth. A case such as this with obvious holes in it should have been acquitted. Thai face trumps sought truth again, and always it seems.

[TomJoad]

Very interesting news article being run by the BBC back in the UK.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-35170419

I guess it's not just the members of this forum that feel they were unfairly tried.

Good article, but what I found interesting was that they never mentioned anything about them having David's cell phone in the article. Why? Shouldn't that be as important to refute as the DNA "evidence" ?

[JLCrab]

manarak,

In another article on TV, we are told by a spokesman of the Courts of Justice that the decision was based on evidence and the summary was now available for everyone to view (in English).

Unfortunately, we are not told where that summary can be found - see http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?/topic/882014-Myanmar-military-chief-weighs-in-on-Koh-Tao-murder-case

I reformatted the Summary as-best-I-could as posted on Andy Hall's Twitter page:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=356900

Go to 400% on page 1 -- pages are not in sequence.

Edited December 27, 2015 by JLCrab

[Daniel Boon]

I believe they are guilty...DNA is hard to dispute.....

However botched the investigation turned out to be DNA does not lie....

No, DNA - planted after the fact - does not lie;

[Aj Mick]

manarak,

In another article on TV, we are told by a spokesman of the Courts of Justice that the decision was based on evidence and the summary was now available for everyone to view (in English).

Unfortunately, we are not told where that summary can be found - see http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?/topic/882014-Myanmar-military-chief-weighs-in-on-Koh-Tao-murder-case

I reformatted the Summary as-best-I-could as posted on Andy Hall's Twitter page:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=356900

Go to 400% on page 1 -- pages are not in sequence.

So the judges accepted the credibility of the RTP story, without even considering the defence. Incredible, and a sad day for justice.

[Daniel Boon]

In a country where most ex-pats come from, the case would, in all probability, not have come the same conclusion.

It's not unreasonable to imply that a judge (in trying to obtain closure for Thailand's credibility) was not as thorough.

In America, the UK and Australia, there are examples of judges arriving at a decision that are at odds with the evidence, and parties found quilty for expediency.

[NeverSure]

I don't know whether or not they were guilty but by American Standards of "guilt beyond a reasonable doubt", they should have been acquitted, since there was so much contradictory evidence. By Thai standards of "saving face" over administration of justice they were a convenient scapegoat.

This is why I didn't know how to vote at first. Just one thing that would raise ANY doubt in a "reasonable person" would demand an acquittal in the USA. They must be found "guilty beyond a (any kind of) reasonable doubt".

"Not guilty" does not mean "innocent". It just means that guilt wasn't proven beyond any reasonable doubt. "Not guilty" means "Not proven guilty".

Those are my standards of fairness so I voted not guilty as I would have done if I was on a jury. I have reasonable doubts.

Cheers.

[smotherb]

I believe they are guilty...DNA is hard to dispute.....

However botched the investigation turned out to be DNA does not lie....

The DNA would prove what? Rape? Certainly not murder.

So the DNA proves rape...OK so those boys raped and someone else came along and killed the two...

I guess it is possible...

DNA may prove sex, but it does not prove rape or murder.

[smotherb]

I believe the BiB botched up the investigation and nobody will ever know for sure.

The B2 know for sure.

The police involved know for sure.

Unnamed witnesses/perps know for sure.

David and Hannah know for sure.

And, just how do you reach the conclusion, "The police involved know for sure"?

[smotherb]

I don't know whether or not they were guilty but by American Standards of "guilt beyond a reasonable doubt", they should have been acquitted, since there was so much contradictory evidence. By Thai standards of "saving face" over administration of justice they were a convenient scapegoat.

"By Thai standards of "saving face" over administration of justice ..."

If only American posters could apply the same standards of "guilt beyond reasonable doubt" before Thai bashing ...

Are you saying only Americans are Thai bashers?

[smotherb]

2 young Brits brutally murdered.

2 young men sentenced to death.

How do we handle that?

Let's make a poll to increase traffic and entertain the readership (the other thread on the subject is slowing down)

Or is it only me??

Well, let's face it; it is a controversial subject, there are many posters interested, and increasing traffic is a desirable goal.

[smotherb]

If it was the USA they would have been found not guilty because of all the procedural errors; ie. "Miranda", evidence custody, etc. However, this doesn't mean that they didn't do it. As it was said in another thread, "The DNA trumps everything else"

And we can all read how wonderful the US Justice system is.

All justice systems are flawed, because they are all based on the decisions and actions of people. I think that referred to by unclueng are the legal principles which should be followed and may not have been.