Are Thais Worse Than Farangs For Litter?

[number6]

Are Thais worse than forangs for litter?

I know everywhere in world you have lots of people who don’t care about throwing their rubbish in street etc. But normally in western countries most people do it when they think others are not looking.

Tonight after 15 years coming here and 5 living here I saw something that made my blood boil and also made me do something I would normally not do here or anywhere. In particular in Thailand when their Thai boyfriends joined them. Lucky I guess they did not have a gun. Normally I know from being here a long time I walk away.

I was sitting at an outdoor food fair with my Thai wife and child when a couple of Thai ladies (I can’t even call them ladies id say trash) sat at table near us. The table was full of bottles and plastic containers and rubbish where previous occupants had had their meal.

They simply brushed of all rubbish on floor between their table and ours including left over food etc. I could not believe it then they moved their table away from mess they had created.

I saw red and indicated to that the rubbish and they smelled and were really bad. I was so angry which they could see so they ignored my stares at them. I went to them again and said mien die. I then purposely moved our table form rubbish and got one of cleaners up to take rubbish away making a strong point of saying sorry to him and giving him 500 baht for his trouble. He of course was over the moon. It took me a long time to calm down much to my wife’s embarrassment.

I know I should have ignored it.

Later we moved to another part of food fair near stage. The table next to us was full of rubbish. A Thai family asked if they could sit there and they found a cleaner up to remove rubbish. That restored my faith a bit in human beings.

So ??? are Thais more messy and loutish and littler louts than forangs.

[Neeranam]

Yes.

Man, you have to accept that this is not you're own country.

It took me longer than 5 years to do this.

All that anger and frustration was in your head - noone else's. The women won't have had a clue what the ctazy guy was looking at. Here's an example of a similar situation:

You and your mates are in your local pub having a few pints. There are a couple of Thai women staring daggers at you. One comes up and calls you a pig for blowing your nose into your handkerchief and putting it in your pocket. What would you think of that?

It's not a big deal doing what you described.

If you open a farang restaurant here and the women do the same, then have a go at them.

Edited October 13, 2006 by Neeranam

[number6]

Yes.

Man, you have to accept that this is not you're own country.

It took me longer than 5 years to do this.

All that anger and frustration was in your head - noone else's. The women won't have had a clue what the ctazy guy was looking at. Here's an example of a similar situation:

You and your mates are in your local pub having a few pints. There are a couple of Thai women staring daggers at you. One comes up and calls you a pig for blowing your nose into your handkerchief and putting it in your pocket. What would you think of that?

It's not a big deal doing what you described.

If you open a farang restaurant here and the women do the same, then have a go at them.

ok your right when in rome next time ill just dump rubbish from my table onto floor next to whoever

thats what i was going to do but my Thia wife said dont go down to their level were better than that - bye the way she was disgusted as well but being Thai only shows that to me

Sorry animals are animals everywhere and your example of blowing your nose is xxxxx better just do like chinese here and blow your snot in street - my wifes better comment was at least their not as bad as chinese and she meant it

[sbk]

I think Thais (and Asians in general) do tend to be much worse litterers but I put this down to lack of education.

In the west there has been massive advertising and education campaigns about littering and why we shouldn't. No such thing in Thailand, littering hasn't become the social stigma it is in the west.

Also, in alot of rural areas the main form of packaging up until fairly recently was banana leaves, bamboo etc. All biodegradable and no big deal if not picked up. I think alot of Thais do not konw that plastic bags never biodegrade.

[soic]

litter is an individual thing. I've been all over the world and there are slobs and neat freaks of all nationalities. I'm a neat freak, but a pack rat... it drives me nuts... imagine trying to store crap collected over many years neatly. I have to turn the house up on it's edge monthly and throw away and give away a month's worth of collecting and finding new places to keep those "gotta keep" items, that I'll forget about in two days. The wife "helps" in her own loving way... if I bring something home from America or Iraq, it must be a treasure.... if I throw it out, it must have been by mistake. I can't hardly get her to sit down and stop cleaning, but I go home every 4 months and have to clean an inch of dust off of every cabinet, A/C unit, ceiling fan blades and our refrigerator. I wouldn't even think of comparing Thai's to Farang for litter, we are all what we are... we don't trash a place or scrub the paint off walls because of our nationalities, we do it because of the were raisednot by our culture, but by our parents.

[GuestHouse]

It is indeed an individual thing, but as a general rule Thais treat th their enviroment like a rubbish tip.

No, I'll correct that.

They do not treat "Their Enviroment" as a rubbish tip, they look after that very nicely.

They treat anything which is not 'Their Environment' as a tip.

The boudary between 'Theirs' and 'Not Theirs' is exactly at the fence/wall/door of their property.

So Thais will quite happily dump their trash over their own back fence - out of sight, out of their world and oout of thought.

Take a stroll around the back of Thai estates to see the evidence with your own eyes.

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I'm in Rome, and I don't necesseraly do as the Romans do.

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[kudroz]

I've seen quite a few shocking scenes since I've been here. One in particular that I remember... was at Chao Lao beach near Chanthaburi.

This Thai family comes with a few childrens, and then starts throwing residue of their seafood on the ground, it was discusting. Then came some people selling "popsicles" and they just threw the plastic wrap and the wood stick on the ground, then they left... Oishi and Water bottles were rolling on the sand pushed by the wind...

I was disgusted.

[Heng]

What about for chemical and nuclear waste? Yes Thai industry is trying as hard as they can to damage the Earth as they can chemically, but I think that's yet another area that we're still playing catch up in. Who do you think has depleted more of the ozone layer?

[Neeranam]

North Americans - when the first motor car was made it did 24 miles to the gallon. Americans are making these bloody SUVs like the Hummer, that do less than 10miles to the gallon - selfish pricks!

[Upcountry]

Down in Hua Hin, at a beach-side restaurant, I couldn’t believe the selfish buffalos who would drive up on the sand and block the view of the ocean for restaurant guests, just because they were “too good” to park down the road like everyone else. I laughed when “jai dam” Merc owner got stuck in the sand.

But I remember seeing an American, back in the US, in a big SUV dropping his Styrofoam and lunch garbage out the door into a parking lot one time. I got the vibe as he noticed that I saw him do it. He would have loved a fight over someone telling him that he should be more environmentally considerate.

Thoughtless a-holes are everywhere!

At the same time, I would acknowledge that people in my neighborhood think nothing of trash everywhere. They accept it. Notice how paint droppings can be found on the grounds and floors of wats and houses. The ‘mai pen rai’ attitude has many manifestations.

[Unknown]

I think Thais (and Asians in general) do tend to be much worse litterers but I put this down to lack of education.

I think Thais are quite ok comparatively to the Chinese...

[summerT]

Dont get graffiti or vandalism here though, I guess if there no money init why bother, but with littering well thats just lazy.

[soic]

North Americans - when the first motor car was made it did 24 miles to the gallon. Americans are making these bloody SUVs like the Hummer, that do less than 10miles to the gallon - selfish pricks!

Grinding axes are we? I believe that there is plenty of room to point fingers, towards all nationalities. I don't believe for an instant that there is a single litter free nation or nationality. As for gas guzzlers, thank goodness there are a lot of rich europeans and arabs to buy those big ole bad Hummers, Ferrari's, Jaguars, Lambhorguinis, Rolls Royce and Rangers. We bad ole Americans can't build and buy them all. Glass houses... the thread shouldn't start a finger pointing match. We're all guilty, and we're all innocent in some degree or another. For every instance of litter tossing anywhere, I can point out a spot in my country, and all of you, if you're honest can point out spots in your own that are as guilty. Every country has it's own blight neighborhoods, beaches and/or cities.

It would be nicer to see a thread that points out an area that we cleaned up or organized a group to help clean up. It's easier to find a fault and wave a flag, it's harder to pick up a shovel or a broom. When I see litter in my neighborhood, I pick it up. I've had some people actually laugh at the farang picking up garbage on the street, but then I actually had a few neighbors that saw what I was doing and came out and helped me. When I cleaned up my yard, picked up trash on the curbside out front, started landscaping our place, and went to work on my Mother-in-law's yard, two houses down, it was amazing to start seeing some of the "remodeling" and yard work that started happening around us. People should be careful where they point their fingers, sometimes there's more people that can point them back at you.

[sbk]

North Americans - when the first motor car was made it did 24 miles to the gallon. Americans are making these bloody SUVs like the Hummer, that do less than 10miles to the gallon - selfish pricks!

Grinding axes are we? I believe that there is plenty of room to point fingers, towards all nationalities. I don't believe for an instant that there is a single litter free nation or nationality. As for gas guzzlers, thank goodness there are a lot of rich europeans and arabs to buy those big ole bad Hummers, Ferrari's, Jaguars, Lambhorguinis, Rolls Royce and Rangers. We bad ole Americans can't build and buy them all. Glass houses... the thread shouldn't start a finger pointing match. We're all guilty, and we're all innocent in some degree or another. For every instance of litter tossing anywhere, I can point out a spot in my country, and all of you, if you're honest can point out spots in your own that are as guilty. Every country has it's own blight neighborhoods, beaches and/or cities.

It would be nicer to see a thread that points out an area that we cleaned up or organized a group to help clean up. It's easier to find a fault and wave a flag, it's harder to pick up a shovel or a broom. When I see litter in my neighborhood, I pick it up. I've had some people actually laugh at the farang picking up garbage on the street, but then I actually had a few neighbors that saw what I was doing and came out and helped me. When I cleaned up my yard, picked up trash on the curbside out front, started landscaping our place, and went to work on my Mother-in-law's yard, two houses down, it was amazing to start seeing some of the "remodeling" and yard work that started happening around us. People should be careful where they point their fingers, sometimes there's more people that can point them back at you.

Nice post soic, and you are right. Perhaps instead of pointing fingers and placing blame we can all do our own small part to help keep our own corner of the world clean. Instead of giving litterers dirty looks, go pick up their garbage and put it in the bin. Preferably in front of them, maybe they will learn something and clean up after themselves next time.

Try to organize something along the lines of Project Awareand organize a clean up day in your neighborhood. Our Puyaibahn has a clean up the road day every 6 months or so, volunteers come and clean up litter, strim the weeds and plant flowering plants.

We are all guilty parties here, even if it is just watching someone else litter and not picking it up. We all like the comforts of modern life and should be more aware of our own resource usage instead of pointing fingers.

[Unknown]

Instead of giving litterers dirty looks, go pick up their garbage and put it in the bin. Preferably in front of them, maybe they will learn something and clean up after themselves next time.

I do not want to be negative, SBK, but I'm pretty sure it won't work...

[sbk]

Instead of giving litterers dirty looks, go pick up their garbage and put it in the bin. Preferably in front of them, maybe they will learn something and clean up after themselves next time.

I do not want to be negative, SBK, but I'm pretty sure it won't work...

Better than letting the garbage stay and then moaning about it. If cleaning up means I end up having to clean up after other people then I guess I'll continue to do so. Our beach fills up with rubbish nearly every day for 6 months (when the wind changes directions, the rubbish stops). None of which is mine. I still clean it up every day and have done so as long as I have lived there (even before the bungalows came along). Some of my neighbors thought I was nuts others came along and helped.

Lead by example. Its definitely more help than whinging about it and doing nothing.

[Unknown]

Our beach fills up with rubbish nearly every day for 6 months (when the wind changes directions, the rubbish stops). None of which is mine. I still clean it up every day and have done so as long as I have lived there (even before the bungalows came along). Some of my neighbors thought I was nuts others came along and helped.

Lead by example. Its definitely more help than whinging about it and doing nothing.

This is a different matter, you want to keep a beach clean and I understand that especially if you live there.

But many people (not only Thais) will not understand that they have to clean a beach that is not theirs of garbage that is not theirs either.

[sbk]

True unknown, but I guess my point is being missed.

If you only changed one mind bycleaning up then that would be a start, wouldn't it? I didn't have to clean my beach, and my neighbors didn't have to help me either. But a few of them understood the concept. My puyaibahn doesn't have to get people to clean the roads in our neighborhood but his idea helps to spread the concept of not littering.

[GuestHouse]

There is a lot in what SBK says about setting an example.

Around 4 years back, friends and I, Farang, did a clean up at a water fall, removing bottles, plastic bags etc. The water fall is almost entirely visited by Thais (I've visited many times and have never once seen a foreigner there)

We collected 11 sacks of rubbish and 6 buckets of glass.

Thais stood for a while watching us and then joined in the effort to help clean up.

Clearly the message is there, don't chuck your sh1t, but Thais need a push.

I still maintain Thais have a very limited view of anything outside of their own family/group interests.

They do not regard public areas as being in anyway their resposibility.

But, name calling doesn't help.

Nor, does pointing fingers elsewhere.

Environmental care is an area where Thais are undoubtedly not following best practice.

As an asside: One of the arguments put by Thais when discussing allowing foreigners to own land, was the suggestion that foreigners would not look after the land and would leave it poluted, because they don't care for the land like Thais do.

[Unknown]

If you only changed one mind by cleaning up then that would be a start, wouldn't it?

In an ideal world, it would be.

But let's see Singapore where people littering are fined or even have to do some community service, i.e. collecting garbage for some time.

As soon as the Singapore governement stops collecting the garbage and cleaning the streets and beaches, if only for one day, it looks like the slumps in Manilla, Jakarta or elsewhere.

I agree that it is a question of education but I'm afraid it is not a question of example...

[lannarebirth]

What about for chemical and nuclear waste? Yes Thai industry is trying as hard as they can to damage the Earth as they can chemically, but I think that's yet another area that we're still playing catch up in. Who do you think has depleted more of the ozone layer?

Each year in America, for many years now, the air is cleaner than the year that preceded it.

[Unknown]

Each year in America, for many years now, the air is cleaner than the year that preceded it.

Well a bit off topic but that's a bold statement. Any facts to prove it?

[lannarebirth]

Each year in America, for many years now, the air is cleaner than the year that preceded it.

Well a bit off topic but that's a bold statement. Any facts to prove it?

This is a bit dated, and the cleanup has accelerated since that time, but you get the idea:

http://www.epa.gov/indicators/roe/index.htm

[soic]

Instead of giving litterers dirty looks, go pick up their garbage and put it in the bin. Preferably in front of them, maybe they will learn something and clean up after themselves next time.

I do not want to be negative, SBK, but I'm pretty sure it won't work...

You'd be surprised... that's exactly what I did on my street. I picked my stuff and their stuff and whatever was out front. I didn't give them a dirty look, or anything. I just picked it up and went about my business. They thought I was nuts at first, but then they realized it was they that looked stupid and were losing face. They didn't lose it to me, they lost it to themselves and that's where it really hit home.

I'm sticking with my personal arrangement, it worked for me... It's always been one of my pet peeves... I don't listen to complaints here at my job... I listen to solutions. Everytime someone comes to my office to tell me what's wrong, I ask them how to fix it. If they can't think of anything to fix it or even attempt to offer an idea... I hand them a kleenex and tell them to go see HR. There's nothing I can do for them... That may seem cold, but I just can't stomach anyone whining about a problem, when they're too lazy to get off their butts and try to fix it...

[GuestHouse]

Each year in America, for many years now, the air is cleaner than the year that preceded it.

Well a bit off topic but that's a bold statement. Any facts to prove it?

There's some information here, with a pull down search for year by year data.Air Quality Data

We should keep in mind that almost all environmental legislation world wide follows US and in particular Calafornian legislation. Environmentalism itself as a political movement started in the US.

What about for chemical and nuclear waste?

Perhaps you've not been in Thailand long enough to recall the incident in which an out of service X-Ray machine was dumped in a BKK scrap yard with its Isotope still in the machine. The isotope was removed by the scrappy and sold as magic glowing dust, with disaterous results.

Not just the injuries/enviromental damage but also alarm bells ringing outside with the realization that the ingrediants for a dirty bomb where lying around BKK.

[qualtrough]

Ever been on a train here? The attendent sweeps up the waste on the floors (the remainder of any waste that hasn't already been chucked out the window by passengers), opens a window, and dumps it all out. Been doing that since I first sat on a train here 26 years ago. I thought that might change, but I just saw it the other day.

I visited Wat Kao Pra Viharn a few years back and the mess there was appalling. Plastic bottles and bags everywhere. It was like a garbage dump with some ancient ruins on the property.

As others have noted, you just have to grin and bear it, and lead by example. Several times I have overheard Thais remarking how neat or clean farangs are when they have seen me clean up after a picnic or go out of my way to throw something in a bin. Big changes won't happen in our lifetimes. It will takes generations, if it happens at all. I am also teaching my luk krungs kids not to litter, so there are two Thais that won't be making a mess--I hope!

[egeefay]

I recall visiting Thailand about 20 years ago. We were all riding in a mini van ...a bunch of friends and relatives . One of them collected all the garbage , put it in a plastic bag, opened the window and tossed the bag out thw window as the van sped along.

I can never forget that.

The people we were travelling with were very nice folks. Mostly well educated and from good families.

It's a cultural thing, I think.

Perhaps not all Thais are as sensitve to litter as long as it isn't on their property.

I'd like to get a Thai's point of view on this

[pap]

North Americans - when the first motor car was made it did 24 miles to the gallon. Americans are making these bloody SUVs like the Hummer, that do less than 10miles to the gallon - selfish pricks!

Saw a Ferrari the other day, a Lambourghini and a Porsche. Imagine my surpise at learning the Italians and Germans also had some selfish Pricks since those were not made in the US.

Well, I guess small minded people are everywhere.

Imagine my surprise in finding out that most cars not made in the US have only doubled their mileage/kilometer range on average globally. What a selfish world you live in. It must ease your mind to have someone to blame for the worlds problems. Must be some sort of global conspiracy since conspiracies of that magnitude are so easy to keep hidden.

Such tolerance and purity of vision is commendable.

To point, it took 30 years of advertising and teaching in school systems to get western countries where they are in terms of pollution standards. It also took that long to develope the infrastructure to deal with it.

Western countries had the benefit of having attitudes change while plastic storage methods were being developed. That allowed the infastructure to develope with only a slight lag.

Thailand has had no time to develope the infastructure or to have an educational program to match. Attitudes take time to change and the infastructure takes longer although some will never change. They have to start soon to have a chance. They were thrust into the use of these items in a much shorter time frame. That is why I hope they are careful with what they choose to take from more developed countries. Everything has a price.

Including the guy driving the Hummer.

[sua yai]

In answer to the OP,

Yes, this is a dirty country with no consideration from the locals towards their environment.

No education, as others have said.

[pap]

If you only changed one mind by cleaning up then that would be a start, wouldn't it?

In an ideal world, it would be.

But let's see Singapore where people littering are fined or even have to do some community service, i.e. collecting garbage for some time.

As soon as the Singapore governement stops collecting the garbage and cleaning the streets and beaches, if only for one day, it looks like the slumps in Manilla, Jakarta or elsewhere.

I agree that it is a question of education but I'm afraid it is not a question of example...

expanding on that...the infastructure must be available for the shift in attitude that musta also occur.