Thailand backpacker murders: Britain too quick to accept Thai court's verdict

[oldsailor35]

Lets hope and pray that when Myanmar finally opens up and international trading becomes normal, that England reaps the rewards of what they have just done in the name of good relations with Thailand, and are shunned and treated with the disrespect that they have earned from Myanmar and given no access whatsoever.

[NoshowJones]

Just be careful though guys. There are some comments on there that will get you a knock on the door if you're not careful

Why is That? Can people actually get an address from Thaivisa for posters? I don't believe it, I have never given an opinion on this because I just don't know.

They may be guilty or they may not. I just don't know.

[DennisF]

Read the letter by Anonymous to the Millers and Whetheridges.

Where is the link?

[Tom Cahill]

Now we are just waiting to hear from the political dinosaurs wearing a generals uniform aka the Thai government,

They will no doubt claim that Thaksin, from his new base in Myanmar, has infiltrated the British press to create instability in paradise..................

Well if he did / has, it would be the only decent thing he has ever done - however there is no chance he would even consider it as he never cared about Thai people so why would he help a couple of poor Burmese?

JOC's comment was sarcasm you clown!

But as you've gone 'off track' AGAIN I'll just mention the fact that your hated Thaksin actually started the FREE for all Thais public health service so I can forgive him loads especially anything to do with joining the elitist, 'ruling classes', aristos at the trough of corruption and nepotism! Beating them at their own game was he? Oh deary, deary me - how very dare he!!

Many a true word spoken in ignorance?

I agree, Thaksin's not the friend of the country.

He's not the friend of the establishment. He did control the media like a certain Hungarian George, who organises colour revolutions in order to subvert sovereign states---or is that a 'conspiracy theory', whatever that means to morons watch too much TV and don't know what the definition of conspiracy is.

Blue's a colour I think, and in Thai, they have another word for it. Of course in some places these were made up by the press is what you're saying? This seems hypocritical if he only is allowed to do this in other countries and it not be a 'conspiracy theory'. All the more so as he's admitted it himself. Let's put it this way, you wouldn't be in good company in Malaysian high society, seeing as their PM, Mahathir Mohamad, has been very publicly, yet very much not internationally cited for stating what you all seem to nut out as only possible through sarcasm of an idiot. Sarcasm's a double edged carrot at the best of times, as well as being the lowest form of wit.

One question for you all.

Who does Thaksin work for?

I've just looked it up. Party's not a Thai word either.

[MadDog2020]

White countries don't care what happens to coloured people.

It's just the way things work.

White police can shoot them, corrupt governments can sentence them to death.

Floods can drown them, poor harvests can starve them, civil wars can kill them.

What are you trying to say? That Thailand is a "white" country!

[chrisinth]

Slightly confused here.

OP states that Britain may have been too quick to accept the verdict? Please forgive my ignorance, but what say has Britain got towards a Thai court verdict, in this case where two Burmese are being tried for murder? If the defendants (and not the victims) were British I could understand, but they aren't.

As appalling as this case has been with the way in which the whole process has left so many unanswered questions, IMO Britain has no say in the Thai system in this case as horrible as that sounds. If they haven't produced evidence to date to dispute the verdict, if they had evidence in the first place that could have changed the outcome.

Just to be clear in my personal view, from day one this whole case has been a travesty of justice, as regards the information available through media sources.

Individual view from a British subject.

Edited December 31, 2015 by chrisinth

[LannaGuy]

I must admit I was very disappointed the family just accepted the verdict so meekly

[LannaGuy]

What is afpaling is that there was a British investigation that was kept secret. Seems the UK (government) cares more about trade and relations as bringing out what they have discovered. They should tell them that they either were not allowed to investigate or could not find a thing.. but at least report about it. But it seems they won't just to keep the peace. I would have expected differently from a first world country like the UK.

yes, don't agree with many of your posts, but this one I do and I'm baffled as it's so unusual but without the families pressing it won't come out probably

[JLCrab]

From above linked Independent editorial: "Yet serious questions remain, and they should not be brushed aside in deference to the terrible suffering the parents of Mr Miller and Ms Witheridge have undergone."

At some point the Thai Government might very well say back to the Independent that this is a matter of a crime committed in Thailand with due process under the Laws of Thailand ... and that there are far more fugitives from Justice in the UK that the UK would like assistance from Thailand in their extradition back to the UK than in the reverse.

If you think the UK government care about people fleeing the country who're non political, you're very much mistaken.

< snip >

I didn't think -- I just read REUTERS:

The Metropolitan Police opposed their application, arguing that disclosure would impede the force's ability to enter into cooperation agreements with foreign authorities in future.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-thailand-britain-murders-idUKKCN0QU1YA20150825

But again, that was an editorial expressed in a UK newspaper, not the official position of the UK Government, and from what you say, the UK Government has no problem leaving a non-poitical situation "brushed aside".

Edited December 31, 2015 by JLCrab

[stickylies]

Don't travel to Ko Tao or Samui.

Never been there. When I want island-live I go to little Ko Chang which is also "controlled" by 1 family basically but they seem good-hearted. The atmosphere is still very hippy'esk with loads of Germans and very little Anglosphere which I like. No bar-girls, no beer-bars, no mongers, no electricity

[oneday]

The British public are ignorant and rightly so. The police and politicians ARE NOT ignorant, they are just selling the two young Burmese down the road for the expedient of good relations with Thailand. The British police agencies, without doubt, know these two young men got a very raw deal. They also know this case would have never made it to court in Britain if handled the same way as it was in Thailand.

The general British public know nothing about Thailand with it's rampant corruption and lack of justice, unlike the British Expat. To be fair, I would say this about any western country given that most people who do not live here know nothing about Thailand and many people outside Thailand were not following this case like we Expats were..

When it comes to the families of the two young British backpackers, well I can only imagine they were brainwashed by people they trust in their own government and their law enforcement agencies. There are a lot of good police in Britain going home at night and shaking their heads in disgust at their top-level management and their politicians.

[Artisi]

Now we are just waiting to hear from the political dinosaurs wearing a generals uniform aka the Thai government,

They will no doubt claim that Thaksin, from his new base in Myanmar, has infiltrated the British press to create instability in paradise..................

Well if he did / has, it would be the only decent thing he has ever done - however there is no chance he would even consider it as he never cared about Thai people so why would he help a couple of poor Burmese?

JOC's comment was sarcasm you clown!

But as you've gone 'off track' AGAIN I'll just mention the fact that your hated Thaksin actually started the FREE for all Thais public health service so I can forgive him loads especially anything to do with joining the elitist, 'ruling classes', aristos at the trough of corruption and nepotism! Beating them at their own game was he? Oh deary, deary me - how very dare he!!

Seems you might have to be the clowns assistant, in your haste to be a smart arse you missed the lead in to JOC'S tongue cheek comment, the opening was "well if he did...." and as for what was done for the Thai people, I would recommend you don't even go anywhere near to that subject as you appear to be poorly armed for that discussion.....

[lucky11]

The proof is in the pudding , over decades the RTP have proven that they are far from a professional team as a law enforcement agency , it might very well be that this time England has been too quick to accept the court's verdict , another case in Chiang Mai this wasn't so, and along with the murdered girl's parents with BBC help they hired a ex Scotland yard detective to investigate , end result RTP dropped the charges against a Sydney lad and charged the Thai owner of the Hostel, in retaliation the BBC was then banned in Thailand for a period time. The point being raised here if it can happen it will happen in Thailand , there should be life handed down by the court , at least those innocent won't lose their life, right from the start this case was floored with unprofessional conduct , so why should opinion change against the RTP..................................................... .

A death sentence doesn't really mean a death sentence in Thailand nowadays - just as life imprisonment in the UK doesn't usually mean that either unless a full term has been stipulated. Out of the 600 or 1,000 prisoners on death row in Thailand (I've seen 2 figures quoted) I belief that nobody has been executed since 2009.

[Renrut]

The proof is in the pudding , over decades the RTP have proven that they are far from a professional team as a law enforcement agency , it might very well be that this time England has been too quick to accept the court's verdict , another case in Chiang Mai this wasn't so, and along with the murdered girl's parents with BBC help they hired a ex Scotland yard detective to investigate , end result RTP dropped the charges against a Sydney lad and charged the Thai owner of the Hostel, in retaliation the BBC was then banned in Thailand for a period time. The point being raised here if it can happen it will happen in Thailand , there should be life handed down by the court , at least those innocent won't lose their life, right from the start this case was floored with unprofessional conduct , so why should opinion change against the RTP..................................................... .

The "proof is not in the pudding", the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

The BBC banned in Thailand? When?

[Ducking and]

This opinion does not deserve to be treated seriously because it contains no reasoned assessment of all the facts but does contain statements as the following, which is absurd:-

" Britains reputation is tied up with this case: diplomats should be in no hurry to follow the Thai governments line, "

How can Brit reputation be seriously tied up? And what evidence is there of diplomats hurrying as stated? This article is ludicrous.

All I know is that British investigators were allowed some access and have not publicly expressed any dissatisfaction.

And manifestly the Thai system of criminal investigation is barely 20th century. Very "Third-World."

[greenchair]

These 2 were given every possible resource to prove themselves. Somewhere around 2 million baht was donated to assist them.they had top lawyers from their own country provided in part by their government. They had top lawyers from thailand paid for by the Thai government. They had andy hall going to the UK, talking with the coroner, talking with the met. They had translaters and journalists and forensic scientists on their team. They were given more resources than I have ever seen for a rape or murder case. With all that, they were not able to come up with a single piece of evidence to counter the accusation. Even the UK judge looked over their case and found nothing that would help. Only incriminating evidence that they could not release. All you people , myself included were played till the end. In the end it is the b2 own unbelievable story that decided their fate. We were all lied to by omission and made to be fools. The defense forgot to tell us that Wei Phyo went back to the crime at 5 am. They forgot to tell us that b2 did indeed have David's phone and did try to hide it. Even when we all said the phone was planted the defense never said a word though they knew it was not.

I don't trust the police.

I don't trust the defense either.

Not after we were all lied to and played for fools.

[jacky54]

Read the letter by Anonymous to the Millers and Whetheridges.

Link please !

Yup still can't find it apart from stuff in Thai. If links are not with posts like this they should be deleted.

[Jackin1960]

If I had been one of the murder victims family I would want to know the truth and I would not rest until this case had been properly investigated. There are far too many unanswered questions that should be addressed. The more you look at this the more doubt there is that the 2B had much to do with the double murders.

Lost film footage, lost N and A, D and A tested in two days and it goes on.....

[khunken]

These 2 were given every possible resource to prove themselves. Somewhere around 2 million baht was donated to assist them.they had top lawyers from their own country provided in part by their government. They had top lawyers from thailand paid for by the Thai government. They had andy hall going to the UK, talking with the coroner, talking with the met. They had translaters and journalists and forensic scientists on their team. They were given more resources than I have ever seen for a rape or murder case. With all that, they were not able to come up with a single piece of evidence to counter the accusation. Even the UK judge looked over their case and found nothing that would help. Only incriminating evidence that they could not release. All you people , myself included were played till the end. In the end it is the b2 own unbelievable story that decided their fate. We were all lied to by omission and made to be fools. The defense forgot to tell us that Wei Phyo went back to the crime at 5 am. They forgot to tell us that b2 did indeed have David's phone and did try to hide it. Even when we all said the phone was planted the defense never said a word though they knew it was not.

I don't trust the police.

I don't trust the defense either.

Not after we were all lied to and played for fools.

What a load of tripe.

Just about every element of the corrupt police's case was countered with the exception of the 'used up' DNA which was 'tested' by a non-accredited and easily controlled 'forensic' section within the police force.

The well-known Thai (real) forensic expert - K Pornthip - testified that the crime scene was completely tainted and the murder weapon (the hoe) did not bear the DNA of the 2 scapegoats, but 2 others. Who?

The judgement was biased - for undisclosed but not hard to understand

reasons - as, given the huge amount of doubt, it should have been given in favour of the accused as is the case in fair trials.

Read the Anonymous letter if you have any sort of an open mind.

Edited December 31, 2015 by khunken

[Traveling Sailor]

" The reaction of the families to the verdict, welcoming the conviction and seeking to draw a line under the tragedy, is understandable. "

To me, this is one of the most puzzling aspects of the case as the trial played out. I just don't see HOW these families (bless'em) have seemed to be SO acceptable given all the sad facts, manipulation of evidence, lies, etc. that went along with this thing. I would think they would STILL be screaming bloody murder.

But they are not . . . ???

If they were this thing would take on whole new life and might be big headlines for a long time.

Maybe they got a large brown envelope too.

[BlindMagician]

Read the letter by Anonymous to the Millers and Whetheridges.

Link please !

Yup still can't find it apart from stuff in Thai. If links are not with posts like this they should be deleted.

What a strop. Calm down.

It's very easy to find. All in English too.

Google it, or read this thread.

Mountain, molehill.

[DennisF]

We Are Anonymous is a fb page and that is where the letter is.

It is a bit emotional and just sets out the sequence of events.

Claims to be making a video.

Not sure of credibility.

[impulse]

Read the letter by Anonymous to the Millers and Whetheridges.

Link please !

Yup still can't find it apart from stuff in Thai. If links are not with posts like this they should be deleted.

Respectfully, I disagree. Not knowing the information is out there, I wouldn't have known to search for it. Didn't take long to find it.

The link posted by others in later (now deleted) posts was to a website that also had other content that apparently violated forum rules, not to mention casting Thai authorities in an unfavorable light. Could cause problems for everyone using TVF due to Thai defamation laws.

I won't post the link for the same reasons the previous posts with the link were deleted...

[BlindMagician]

Read the letter by Anonymous to the Millers and Whetheridges.

Link please !

Yup still can't find it apart from stuff in Thai. If links are not with posts like this they should be deleted.

Respectfully, I disagree. Not knowing the information is out there, I wouldn't have known to search for it. Didn't take long to find it.

The link posted by others in later (now deleted) posts was to a website that also had other content that apparently violated forum rules, not to mention casting Thai authorities in an unfavorable light. Could cause problems for everyone using TVF due to Thai defamation laws.

I won't post the link for the same reasons the previous posts with the link were deleted...

QED

Have a safe evening, and a LoS entertaining 2016.

[Travelman868]

A right to appeal , is part of the law,

A right to a fair trial is also part of the law, except in Thailand where a Hi So or mafia bod is involved.

The police go in destroy the evidence and then arrest 2 Lo-so's.

The DNA from Hannah should have been plentiful. It would have been a mix of her DNA and the rapists DNA, yet the RTP cannot show clear

evidence.

I WONDER WHY

[huawei]

They HAD to find them guilty especially at the low court. The evidence was only as useful as to confirm the judgement. It's just the Thai way. However there will probably be a change of verdict at either the appeal or Supreme Court level..don't dismiss the Thai justice system entirely..as in many facets of Thai life..it's the Thai way.

[connda]

I really have to believe that in a British criminal court of law there would have been I higher 'bar' for due diligence, intra-court 'discovery', presumption of innocence, and guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. But, just being a couple of brown people from a former colony, as long as someone is executed for the crime, who cares if justice is served.

Edited December 31, 2015 by connda

[rockingrobin]

These 2 were given every possible resource to prove themselves. Somewhere around 2 million baht was donated to assist them.they had top lawyers from their own country provided in part by their government. They had top lawyers from thailand paid for by the Thai government. They had andy hall going to the UK, talking with the coroner, talking with the met. They had translaters and journalists and forensic scientists on their team. They were given more resources than I have ever seen for a rape or murder case. With all that, they were not able to come up with a single piece of evidence to counter the accusation. Even the UK judge looked over their case and found nothing that would help. Only incriminating evidence that they could not release. All you people , myself included were played till the end. In the end it is the b2 own unbelievable story that decided their fate. We were all lied to by omission and made to be fools. The defense forgot to tell us that Wei Phyo went back to the crime at 5 am. They forgot to tell us that b2 did indeed have David's phone and did try to hide it. Even when we all said the phone was planted the defense never said a word though they knew it was not.

I don't trust the police.

I don't trust the defense either.

Not after we were all lied to and played for fools.

Greenchair

Firstly I dont Know if the B2 are guilty or innocent, but some of your points are disingenuous

The defence was under no obligation to tell us anything

You Claim a UK judge looked over their case and only found incriminating evidence that the could not release, quite clearly this is incorrect, the judge looked over the Mets internal report and did not see how it could be of use, but he did note he was far away from the trial and therfore it was an uneasy decision

You claim they was provided with Top Lawyers, yet they still believe in their innocence

You claim they were given every resource to prove themselves , the burden lies with the prosecution to prove the allegations

you claim they did not come up with a single piece of evidence to counter the claim, they came up with the gait analysis, Uknown DNA on the alleged murder weapon, The destrucrion of the dna chain of custody, even the judge summary aknowledges there was flaws

You say that it was The B2 own unbelievable story that sealed their fate, well if that is true you have incluade MM. at the pre-trial/advanced hearing we was told MM returned from visiting his girlfriend and asjed about the guitar, left at AC bar , went back to look for it

what we have from the court case his one of the B2 and MM went to search for shoes and the guitar, The guitar and MM are a stumbling block. what we know is the guitar wasnt found from court testimony. We really need to ask MM more questions about that night and the visit to the beach , the police treated him as a witness and let him go after his testimony , so it is assumed they was happy with the account of his movements and this would surely include the waking up and beech visit with Wei Phyo.

In partthe testimony of MM corroborates part of Wei Phyo story, the guitar was missing. Later to be found the next morning and handed to police sometime after.

I may agree with you and say maybe the defence misread the trial and concentrated on matters of less importance , but that is done know

[balo]

There will be an appeal and the attention from the media will continue, maybe some Thai officials thinks it's all over, we'll see...

[khaowong1]

Interesting to read what was happening in the days before the two Burmese were arrested.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run

Intelesting, vely, vely intelesting.