Scary Laos Visa Run Today 15/10/06 Be Careful

[rexall]

We decided to take a Tuk Tuk to the border to return home by train. After negotiating a fair price for a Ferang and his girlfriend, we headed to the checkpoint. When we arrived, I paid the driver, only for him to scream at me that I was a robber, and he pulled out a "rate card" from under his seat that had the price of $25.00 to the checkpont, and not the 40 baht each we negotiated. r 350 baht instead. ...

This is terrible! Worse than that, it doesn't sound like there is any way you could protect yourself. All a tuk-tuk mugger has to do is print a phony fee schedule and have the balls to stick to his story, and you are screwed. And I don't logic would be of much help in pointing out that it would be very unlikely that you would agree to pay the tuk-tuk mafioso $25 as the going rate for a mini-van to the border is only half that!

Geeze!

Aloha,

Rex

Edited October 16, 2006 by rexall

[tropo]

I think a lot of punters forget that Laos is a communist state. Personally I'd recommend staying away from Laos and Burma and conduct visa proceedings in Malaysia...with Cambodia as a second choice.

You are clueless.......... I bet you have never been to either Laos or Burma have you??? But yet you offer an opinion. For your information I have found Laos to be a lot more tourist friendly than Thailand, I don’t get scammed for money by the police and the immigration department in Vientiane are very polite and helpful and will assist you (without a bribe) to obtain both extensions and long term visas to stay in Laos (a thing of the past in Thailand). Malaysia is more expensive and a pain in the arse to travel to as the closest Thai embassy to the border is 2 hours traveling. I think you have been watching too much western propaganda on TV about communism…… but then that’s why “democratic” governments say what they do about communism to make SHEEP like you form unfounded opinions. Look how well communism works in Singapore, one of the best standards of living in Asia.

I have a few clues that you've provided:

1. You're a communist.

2. You enjoy visiting Laos and Burma.

3. You're a cheapskate.

[The Snark]

Someone has probably already said it. Thai wife and kid? Not doing the support Thai spouse 1 year gig?

Please feel free to shoot yourself in the foot. May I please have 50 satang for every snivel I have heard that is jerking the system around? I'd like to feel as rich as Toxoid for a while.

By the way, having visa run assistance started getting leaned on in 2000 when you could just send your passport over. Both Thai and Laos have bent over backwards and kissed farang ass for years. What pisses me off is every person who cuts even the slightest corner makes it just a little bit harder on us legits.

I just love going up to some Thai at the window after a few stinky farangs have given him/her crap. It makes them so friendly and helpful.

Edited October 16, 2006 by The Snark

[midas]

stevespiral you need to get facts straight before you calling someone else clueless !

You cant call Singapore a communist state ! It is a parliamentary republic with an independent judiciary is separated from the executive and the legislature.

I don’t think there ANY ' separation of power ' in Vientiene !

[rob:pee]

I went there 14/9/06 and the agent didnt fill out the form for Lao visa as they usually do. So this isnt new after 1/10.

[hanuman1]

Hi everyone I just got back from Laos yesterday and can confirm what's going on at the border. A Tuk-Tuk driver in Nong Khai told me that all visa agents had been shut down for the time being, so he took me straight to the bridge where i did the paperwork myself <snip>

Mon 16 Oct 06, 11:56 a.m.

Hi Hanuman1, all,

Just a reminder that the Thai-Lao bus from Udon or Nong Khai is whey kewl! You have to get your visa in advance from a Laos Consulate, but it ends up being much cheaper and easier that fooling around with tuk-tuks to the border and then into Vientiane. Big, comfortable coach, only 85 bahtski, drops you off to walk out of Thailand-enter Laos, and then takes you all the way into Vientiane. ==>

Thai-Lao Bus Schedule

Aloha,

Rex

Hi Rex

I've seen those busses you mentioned but have never known where to get on them. Where is the terminus for them in Udon Thani and Vientiane?

Cheers

Hanuman1

[hanuman1]

I went there 14/9/06 and the agent didnt fill out the form for Lao visa as they usually do. So this isnt new after 1/10.

Hi

My tuk-tuk-driving informant told me that the police only started closing down those visa handling agents since 'Awkpansa' - that's supposed to be 'the end of Buddhist Lent', which happened earlier this month.

regards

H

[threelegcowboy]

All,

Having crossed NK/V boarder round trip twice in two weeks and a hundred times befor that.....I feel qualified to comment on some of this.

I think the Loas see the writting on the wall: Fewer falangs will visit Loas because of boarder crossing for visa runs drying up. The fee increase is an example of this. Now $35 for US and probally 36 on weekends.

When the guy stated he filled out the forms himself he agrivated the officers and they called on the LADY who speaks good english to come down and sort out the problem. They like to look in charge and you sound lucky.

There seems to be less traffic into the Thai consulate and the Loas are probally seeing less money in their pocket as a result. Getting ripped off in Laos is rampant and I think it is getting worse.

The Laos in Thailand are finding tighter restrictions on their passage as well.

Lets blame the overall security by controll nuts as the root cause of these problems. Orders at the top probally caused this tightening and restructuring the payments of tea money has caused problems to filter down to the unsuspecting tourist.

It is by chance that you have no problems........

LLL

[southbot]

Yo Viper. I "hear tell" that that Burma immig check post out on Vict. Point, Myanmar, is open.

I use Big Boat Visa Run there, very nice and safe boat, easy trip...

You could call or email them to clarify the border post.

Contact Khun Vichai, speaks Angkriit pertty good. Tel 081 894 9702. His phone worked last time I called him.

Email at [email protected]

Im due to make a run pretty soon at Ranong (Burma). Does anybody here know if the border is open there, and has anyone experienced any recent problems? Am I likely to experience anything different to my previous visits at Ranong?

[rayw]

I think a lot of punters forget that Laos is a communist state. Personally I'd recommend staying away from Laos and Burma and conduct visa proceedings in Malaysia...with Cambodia as a second choice.

You are clueless.......... I bet you have never been to either Laos or Burma have you??? But yet you offer an opinion. For your information I have found Laos to be a lot more tourist friendly than Thailand, I don’t get scammed for money by the police and the immigration department in Vientiane are very polite and helpful and will assist you (without a bribe) to obtain both extensions and long term visas to stay in Laos (a thing of the past in Thailand). Malaysia is more expensive and a pain in the arse to travel to as the closest Thai embassy to the border is 2 hours traveling. I think you have been watching too much western propaganda on TV about communism…… but then that’s why “democratic” governments say what they do about communism to make SHEEP like you form unfounded opinions. Look how well communism works in Singapore, one of the best standards of living in Asia.

Well said. Slight thread drift but still basically relates to Laos immigration and other comments here.

It also should be noted that it is a common misconception that communism has a monopoly on dictatorships. Correct me if I am wrong but if you do your homework I think you will find there are as many if not more extreme right wing capitalist dictatorships in the world as there are communist ones. Also you can and do have communist democratic governments who get into power in properly constituted and accepted democratic states and still get voted out again too. True democracy means that you should be able to vote for a communist or capitalist government or IMHO better those that follow the middle or third way as both extremes have good things to offer as well as bad. It seems that the old crazy "head in sand" McCarthyism still prevails in many western states, it is sad and pathetic in a modern supposedly educated world.

Having said all that I am not a communist but believe in true democracy. So if the majority in ANY country wanted a communist or socialist or fascist state then they should have the right of self determination to be able to elect such a government (and vote them out the next time if they want too). I am personally a believer in the middle or Clinton's/Blair's 3rd way which generally works well, probably because it tries intelligently to embrace the best of both political extremes. Many aspects of Capitalism and Communism absolutely stink and others are great IMHO so we all should be open minded.

Anyway to get back to the thread topic, I am sure the Laos officials were just doing their job and obviously became suspicious when obvious lies were being told to them. What else could this person have been lying about must have been foremost in the official's mind. So really nothing to do with it being a communist state as US immigration is I have found just as bad if not more so and I don't somehow think they are communist !!.

[johnnyk]

Some have opined that the OP was clueless for using an agent but I don't agree.

The one time I went to Laos the travelers who had agents went to the head of the line and were through real quick while it took me best part of an hour. Depends on when you get there I suppose.

Maybe up2ubar was just in a hurry to get it done.

[rexall]

Hi Rex

I've seen those busses you mentioned but have never known where to get on them. Where is the terminus for them in Udon Thani and Vientiane? Cheers, Hanuman1

Mon 16 Oct 06, 1:29 p.m.

The Vientiane coaches depart from the main bus stations in Nohg Khai and Udon. In Udon, it is the big bus station near Robinson's. There is separate waiting area and ticket counter for the Vientiane busses toward the rear of the bus station. 85 baht all the way to Vientiane. The terminus is the main bus station in Vientiane, but I don't exactly know where that is; I took a taxi directly to my hotel before I had a Chance to get my bearings.

Aloha,

Rex

[Kaojai]

Do not get troubled, do not worry. Always have a good, honest and decent reply to a harsh word to anyone you deal with. This disarms them and you should always take the wife and kids.

The key word is "honest."Since they obviously knew the one form had been from an agent, why deny it? If he had been honest from the start, the problem would not have escalated.

[Sum Num Na]

Good Post.....

What i dont understand in this forum is: Why do people have to pull all the posts apart and try to either disprove them or start some kind of fight over who knows best in here?

Why cant people just read the posts and thank the person who put them there for doing so?

[hanuman1]

Good Post.....

What i dont understand in this forum is: Why do people have to pull all the posts apart and try to either disprove them or start some kind of fight over who knows best in here?

Why cant people just read the posts and thank the person who put them there for doing so?

SumNamNa

I completely agree with you, although your name gives your post a somewhat ironic twist!

H.

[BritTim]

Ive been in Thailand 11 years now, and never once use an Agent. I speak very good Thai and find that helps considerably, as im very polite and try build up a good relationship with immigrations.

Im due to make a run pretty soon at Ranong (Burma). Does anybody here know if the border is open there, and has anyone experienced any recent problems? Am I likely to experience anything different to my previous visits at Ranong?

Good luck to all

I did a Ranong run on September 17. All went well, and it is not very different from before, but there were a few adjustments on Burmese side. Instead of $5 at the offshore immigration point, you must pay $10 direct to a fairly senior looking official at an office on shore. This office is just across from the one where you used to get the stamp on exit. They gave me both the entry and exit stamps at the same time.

I quite like the Ranong run, except for the fact that it is always bloody raining.

[The REAL Tony Clifton]

Do not get troubled, do not worry. Always have a good, honest and decent reply to a harsh word to anyone you deal with. This disarms them and you should always take the wife and kids.

In all my years the best and most sensible advice I have seen on anything in Thailand.

Well done Sir!

[deminister]

It seems that the military have been pushing certain authorities/immigration people quite hard on the Izan/Loas border, it might well be the case that the people in laos have not been paid by their counterparts on the Thai site, due to the fact that the military are looking on their fingers right now.

The situation will be back to normal within a month or so, as soon as martial law is lifted. In the mean time if you want to use an agent use an good one and don't go there yourself. And if you like to go on your own use an other border crossing.

[up2ubar]

No denying that in hindsight (Marvellous thing) perhaps i should have been forthright with them & told them the forms had indeed been filled in by a third party (Agent)!

However i did feel at that moment in time! if i had confirmed the initial officers suspicions i would have been flatly denied a laos visa there & then!

I guess panic took over & i tried to blag my way through the situation the best i could!

Yes it was a hairy 30 minutes or so, and not an experience i would wish on anyone else, but i got my visa & consequently back into Thailand.

Would i recommend anyone deal with a situation such as this the same as i did...NO

Was i aware i was doing something illegal...NO

Would i use the services of a visa agent in the future...NO

An awful experience, but because of it i have learned a very valuable lesson!

One thing is for sure i wll not make that mistake again!

Right i'm off for another beer!

[Arkady]

I don't use them but why do the Lao authorities care if travellers use visa agents? They have no problem with travel agents applying at their embassy in Bangkok and this practice seems accepted by all embassies, including China and Vietnam.

Another hazard I experienced a year ago was that Lao Immigration handed my passport to a group of Thais without checking photographs. After waiting for five minutes in front of a surly female immigration officer for my passport and visa I was asked what I was waiting for and she said she had already given it back. Apart from my wife, who didn't have it, the only other people who had just passed through were the Thais who were just about to get into a Vientiane taxi with my passport. Luckily my wife was able to run up to them and get my passport back in time, since the Lao official didn't try to help nor did she apologise for her error. I expect I could have got the passport back eventually, if it had disappeared in the taxi, but it would have no doubt I would have been stuck in no man's land for hours.

On a more positive note, a friend arrived at the border later the same day and found the Lao Immigration office already closed. He managed to talk the police or whoever was on duty there to let him into Laos with no visa. They held his passport at the border and ordered him to come back to apply for his visa before noon the next day which he did despite a major hangover.

[rak sa_ngop]

We decided to take a Tuk Tuk to the border to return home by train. After negotiating a fair price for a Ferang and his girlfriend, we headed to the checkpoint. When we arrived, I paid the driver, only for him to scream at me that I was a robber, and he pulled out a "rate card" from under his seat that had the price of $25.00 to the checkpont, and not the 40 baht each we negotiated. r 350 baht instead. ...

This is terrible! Worse than that, it doesn't sound like there is any way you could protect yourself. All a tuk-tuk mugger has to do is print a phony fee schedule and have the balls to stick to his story, and you are screwed. And I don't logic would be of much help in pointing out that it would be very unlikely that you would agree to pay the tuk-tuk mafioso $25 as the going rate for a mini-van to the border is only half that!

I have made quite a few trips over the years to the Frienship Bridge from Vientiane and I have NEVER paid as little as 40 baht for hiring a tuk-tuk. The distance is about 24 km and 40 baht would barely cover the cost of the two-way trip in petrol and oil. The official printed rate (that they will show you) I believe these days is about 80,000 kip (8 USD) for the whole tuk-tuk or about 50,000 (5 USD) if you negotiate.

The only way I find to get cheaper rates is to team up with back-packers or other Laos' and fill a jumbo tuk-tuk with about 12 people. Then you can start getting rates around 40 baht or less per person. (or take a bus to/from the morning market)

I suspect some confusion occured in the negotiation stage and the driver thought he was going to get 40 thousands of kip or maybe 400 baht, not 40 baht, a good reason in my book to get incensed!

Play fair with them and they will play fair with you (and if you negotiate a ridiculously low price for something more fool you)

[Pattayatony]

I always found the male Laos immigration people very surly and one of them looked ready to kill me for some reason - the guy in front of me had loudly complained about the length of the queue and been smiled through!

If you take a Thai girl with you expect every horrid Laos runt to try to come on to her, BTW, and I would not trust 'em as far as you could throw them.

If you look at the anti-farang laws in force in Laos, then it is no surprise that they can turn nasty on a whim.

I gave up on Laos a couple of years ago and have done Mae Sai (Burmese immigration were always very friendly and efficient) when in Chiang Mai and, when in Bangkok, Singapore via airplane as there are now excellent budget hotels and cheap flights.

Suggest that a widespread boycot of Laos by visa runners would get them where it hurts - their pocket. Simply don't accept this nonsense. They need the tourist dollar more than we need the hassle.

I have been to Laos many times on Visa runs and I will just say this be very carefull in Laos as you are being watched all the time.

[Neeranam]

Why lie to them?

It's not illegal to use an agent, is it?

[Arkady]

I always found the male Laos immigration people very surly and one of them looked ready to kill me for some reason - the guy in front of me had loudly complained about the length of the queue and been smiled through!

If you take a Thai girl with you expect every horrid Laos runt to try to come on to her, BTW, and I would not trust 'em as far as you could throw them.

If you look at the anti-farang laws in force in Laos, then it is no surprise that they can turn nasty on a whim.

I gave up on Laos a couple of years ago and have done Mae Sai (Burmese immigration were always very friendly and efficient) when in Chiang Mai and, when in Bangkok, Singapore via airplane as there are now excellent budget hotels and cheap flights.

Suggest that a widespread boycot of Laos by visa runners would get them where it hurts - their pocket. Simply don't accept this nonsense. They need the tourist dollar more than we need the hassle.

I have been to Laos many times on Visa runs and I will just say this be very carefull in Laos as you are being watched all the time.

Also bear in mind that you need a licence to be in a bedroom alone with a Lao woman. No idea what rigmarole this entails but apparently you need to be married or engaged to apply. Friends who have worked in Vientiane were followed around a lot and people have been deported for spending the night with a Lao girl (or boy), not a career enhancing event for expats working there.

Re boycotting them. For years they went to great lengths to prevent tourists from coming at all, then only wanted wealthy ones who had to get visas from embassies and fly in. I don't think the government would care, if less tourists came over the friendship bridge. Private businesses are a different matter.

[ThailandTony]

I agree with earlier posts....why does an innocent account of a troubling event shared with other expats turn into a name calling, micro-managing, condescending character assassination? Anyone who says they have never withheld the truth from an official of any kind if they thought it would get them in trouble are not being honest with themselves. For my sixpenthworth I believe the OP is brave to post his experience on here only in the knowledge that our forum consists of a few people only willing to pull their post apart and suggest how they should run the rest of their lives. Good informative post and I will take my own lessons from it as others might to.

[arthsch]

perhaps there was the following mistake: there was a misunderstanding between you and the agent. perhaps he tought, he should enter laos, get the entrystamp for thailand and come back to thailand. of course this would be forbidden.

if you cross the border, you must go foryourselve to laos and come back foryourselve in person.

[s.pylos]

I agree with earlier posts....why does an innocent account of a troubling event shared with other expats turn into a name calling, micro-managing, condescending character assassination? Anyone who says they have never withheld the truth from an official of any kind if they thought it would get them in trouble are not being honest with themselves. For my sixpenthworth I believe the OP is brave to post his experience on here only in the knowledge that our forum consists of a few people only willing to pull their post apart and suggest how they should run the rest of their lives. Good informative post and I will take my own lessons from it as others might to.

May I suggest they do it out of boredom?

[sandy]

[Pattayatony]

I agree with earlier posts....why does an innocent account of a troubling event shared with other expats turn into a name calling, micro-managing, condescending character assassination? Anyone who says they have never withheld the truth from an official of any kind if they thought it would get them in trouble are not being honest with themselves. For my sixpenthworth I believe the OP is brave to post his experience on here only in the knowledge that our forum consists of a few people only willing to pull their post apart and suggest how they should run the rest of their lives. Good informative post and I will take my own lessons from it as others might to.

May I suggest they do it out of boredom?

[sandy]

Nah they forget to take their medication.

The op came on here with some advice for other members of TV and all these twits want to do is shoot him down.; I would like to thank the OP for putting this info on TV.

[jobsworth]

I have been to Laos a couple of times in my life

and I have never enjoyed the experience.

I certainly don't want to go there again

and certainly not after this story.

Please could you post a description of the Laos immigration man

who shouted at you.

These sorts of people get off on intimidating their victims.

Such techniques never work on me and are counterproductive.

I am sorry that you had this bad experience

but like I said I would not want to go there anyway.

On the first occasion 20 years ago I was followed around Vientiane

by a rickshaw driver who I could not shake off.

On the second occasion 5 years ago

I reached Luang Prabang by bus

and found only a tourist trap.

I travelled with an Isaan lady but this did not help.

2 months later the same bus from Luang Prabang to Vang Vienne

was shot up by Hmong tribesman and all the passengers were killed.

Keep out of Laos!

[abdulrahman]

Someone has probably already said it. Thai wife and kid? Not doing the support Thai spouse 1 year gig?

Please feel free to shoot yourself in the foot. May I please have 50 satang for every snivel I have heard that is jerking the system around? I'd like to feel as rich as Toxoid for a while.

By the way, having visa run assistance started getting leaned on in 2000 when you could just send your passport over. Both Thai and Laos have bent over backwards and kissed farang ass for years. What pisses me off is every person who cuts even the slightest corner makes it just a little bit harder on us legits.

I just love going up to some Thai at the window after a few stinky farangs have given him/her crap. It makes them so friendly and helpful.

Good Post.....

What i dont understand in this forum is: Why do people have to pull all the posts apart and try to either disprove them or start some kind of fight over who knows best in here?

Why cant people just read the posts and thank the person who put them there for doing so?

Because some posters talk a lot of b******t,a bad experience on a border post is transformed in a statement about the politik of the country,and nobody thinks that as a turist,or as a borderrunner,you shuld try behave yourself.