Protein powders

[Rimmer]

Anything other than what is contained in the original post is off topic and will be removed.

I was looking around the Big C for protein powders (whey or even better, casein). I couldn't find anything. What other stores around Central Pattaya stock them?

[JayBird]

Protein Powders: If you aren't lifting or exercising, you probably don't need it and may (should) consume enough protein from just normal foods.

If on the other hand you are weight lifting / bodybuilding, then yes, protein powders are very useful. Partly to get enough protein in you without exceeding your caloric intake for the day, and partly for timing. You basically want your Whey protein immediately after work out, followed by Casein when you go to sleep (as you are still building muscle while sleeping -- that's when muscle build occurs, not when you're lifting iron -- that's when muscle tear down occurs)

I purchase most of my protein from, believe it or not, moxy in Thailand. They seem to get a lot of their stuff from BP Muscle in Thailand (which I sometimes buy from directly), however Moxy keeps sending me coupon codes for 20% off. They have a wide variety of brands, including Universal / Animal Whey. I run a full Animal Stak and purchase my stuff from them (or BP Muscle). Although I plan to buy a bulk of Animal Supplements next time I'm in Europe and bring it back with me, much cheaper.

[robblok]

Proteins are proteins and protein powders are just an easy way to get in extra proteins without going to high in calories and easy to add to your diet. I believe if you lift hard you need more proteins. The opinion on how much is divided, I aim for 1,5 gram per kg of body weight.

Recently did my blood tests again and everything was ok, I believe in healthy living and exercising hard. I try to get most of my protein from eggs, chicken, milk, beef ect. But we are all different and we all respond a bit different to food and weight training.

[DMC1]

I noticed a new booth selling body building supplements upstairs in the Big C Extra on Pattaya Klang. The booth is upstairs past the Bangkok Bank & before the beauty/hair salon.

[tropo]

Have a read about duck eggs........They send chicken eggs into the abyss.........

I used to buy duck eggs. I stopped after I got too many rotten ones. Can you recommend a safe source in Pattaya Central?

[lemel]

Proteins are proteins and protein powders are just an easy way to get in extra proteins without going to high in calories and easy to add to your diet. I believe if you lift hard you need more proteins. The opinion on how much is divided, I aim for 1,5 gram per kg of body weight.

Recently did my blood tests again and everything was ok, I believe in healthy living and exercising hard. I try to get most of my protein from eggs, chicken, milk, beef ect. But we are all different and we all respond a bit different to food and weight training.

Hi Robblok,

I work out, running 5km, cycling 15km and a 30 minutes weight circuit each day, 4-5 days a week, weigh 95 kilos and want to lose 8-10 kilo of fat over the next 3-4 months, should i take 1.5gm x 95kilo=142.5gm approx 5 scoops of whey protein each day? or would one time, after training, be sufficient to help burn fat without losing muscle?

[robblok]

Lemel,

First of you should not get the whole 142 g of protein from powder. I think there will be some in your food too. (hopefully a lot). The protein powders are just there to add extra protein without much calories.. so great if you need to diet. But you still should eat normal proteins to like chicken or beef or egg fish.. ect.

As for you not loosing muscle.. its real hard not to loose any.. but it depends on your weight training and how fast you loose the weight. The faster the more chance there is that some muscle goes too.

[Hal65]

Act like your body doesn't have a choice in the matter and it will mostly respond in kind. By that I mean continue to lift as if you were on a bulk, same weight, same reps if possible. Only go down if forced to.

[tropo]

Proteins are proteins and protein powders are just an easy way to get in extra proteins without going to high in calories and easy to add to your diet. I believe if you lift hard you need more proteins. The opinion on how much is divided, I aim for 1,5 gram per kg of body weight.

Recently did my blood tests again and everything was ok, I believe in healthy living and exercising hard. I try to get most of my protein from eggs, chicken, milk, beef ect. But we are all different and we all respond a bit different to food and weight training.

Hi Robblok,

I work out, running 5km, cycling 15km and a 30 minutes weight circuit each day, 4-5 days a week, weigh 95 kilos and want to lose 8-10 kilo of fat over the next 3-4 months, should i take 1.5gm x 95kilo=142.5gm approx 5 scoops of whey protein each day? or would one time, after training, be sufficient to help burn fat without losing muscle?

Do you run 5 km and cycle 15 km outdoors? You'll probably lose muscle on a program like that no matter what you eat. I'd recommend you cut it back a bit. If you don't, you'll soon lose interest and/or get injuries. I asked if you train outdoors because if you do that much cardio in 30℃ + heat, you're probably not burning as many calories as you think as you'd be heat stressed and the body would not be working efficiently. I also do some training outdoors and it's brutal. Most of the stress is from the heat.

[JayBird]

Proteins are proteins and protein powders are just an easy way to get in extra proteins without going to high in calories and easy to add to your diet. I believe if you lift hard you need more proteins. The opinion on how much is divided, I aim for 1,5 gram per kg of body weight.

Recently did my blood tests again and everything was ok, I believe in healthy living and exercising hard. I try to get most of my protein from eggs, chicken, milk, beef ect. But we are all different and we all respond a bit different to food and weight training.

Hi Robblok,

I work out, running 5km, cycling 15km and a 30 minutes weight circuit each day, 4-5 days a week, weigh 95 kilos and want to lose 8-10 kilo of fat over the next 3-4 months, should i take 1.5gm x 95kilo=142.5gm approx 5 scoops of whey protein each day? or would one time, after training, be sufficient to help burn fat without losing muscle?

For the cardio portion, intensity is important. One persons 5km running is not the same as another's, depending on speed and angle. Same with cycling. Also are you doing HIIT, steady endurance, steps/pyramid/etc.?

It sounds like you are trying to focus on fat burning rather than muscle building (your circuit seems to be towards keeping muscle burn rate high rather than build). I believe you should worry more about overall nutrition rather than the amount of protein you take in. I'm no dietician so can't really advise on that, but I would definitely say that spreading your protein/nutrition intake throughout the day is better than all at once.

I would suggest adding protein before and after your workout, and again towards the evening or part of breakfast, depending on when you exercise. You could also consider Casein Protein instead of Whey before you go to sleep, or before you workout (to help keep your body supplied with protein during a 2-3 hour workout).

If you want more suggestions, try a forum like body building . com?

[lemel]

Thanks for the responses, I used to be very fit but have lapsed after changing jobs. I train at the gym in the morning 6-8:30,(air-con) do split routines, I don't push it too hard as I have building up to this level over 3-4 months. I also spend most of the day sat behind a computer, so this is most of my exercise all in one go. apart from odd game of golf

I have not been sticking to a diet but have been trying to eat good non fried food, 5 fruit & veg a day, chicken, fish, no bread or cakes etc, also I don't drink or smoke. Since I started weights, I have started to firm up and and have increased muscle mass, lost weight off my legs and getting more definition. The reason for the whey protein is to carry on building muscle and to maintain size and help to burn of fat a bit quicker.

Because I have never had 'Whey protein' I am not sure how much, when to take and how much of a benefit it would be.

I don't want to be a body builder just be in good, hard and lean shape and like everyone else I want it in a week...lol...joking

[lemel]

your right Transom, well done for doing it at 70, i'm 12 years behind but agree it does take time, ex navy and fitness mad for many years after but sadly put weight on when i stopped smoking, changed jobs and had an heart attack (6 years ago), so now I want to start getting back in shape, gave myself 6-9 months to do it in! half way there and now concentrating on the nutrition side of things. hence the protein, dont want to lose muscle mass, but dont want to pig out with food either!

[JayBird]

The body building forum isn't just for body builders btw, a lot of people who just want to bit fit (but more than the once a week run) are there. So lots of tips on protein and exercises as well as supplements.

Eating health is obviously important, and you can often get enough protein from just eating clean meat. *usually* one turns to whey protein when they need *FAST* injection of protein *OR* they need a lot of protein and can't get enough from just clean eating (without eating too many calories).

For example I'll do a 1.5 to 2 hour session, twice a day, so need to get protein into me quickly (15 min protein window) so I go for the Whey Protein. Plus I need a min of 200g of protein a day, so going a non-whey route would result in a *lot* of excess calories

But since you aren't lifting (and tearing) muscles, you should be able to get enough from just eating clean healthy meat a lot. I would honestly suggest thinking about adding Casein Protein as a night time supplement (keeps you full and helps build muscle over night).

Since you are trying to loose weight, your choice of fat burner may actually be more important. Are you taking a burner or thermos to help you shred the weight?

Also you may want to ensure you are getting the right vitamins into you to maintain your overall health. Especially if you do a lot of cardio you may be burning vital nutrients.

For me, I go with the Animal line mostly. Hydroxycut, followed by Animal Pak, Stak, Test, Universal Shock, Animal Beef Aminos, Animal Flex (joint recovery), plus Animal Whey throughout the day.

(It's a lot of pills....but you will notice the difference. If you aren't lifting heavy and just want to focus on burn I recommend HydroxyCut (good fat burner) and Animal Pak (Good vitamins) plus maybe Animal Beef Aminos))

Edited April 8, 2016 by JayBird

[tropo]

For example I'll do a 1.5 to 2 hour session, twice a day, so need to get protein into me quickly (15 min protein window) so I go for the Whey Protein. Plus I need a min of 200g of protein a day, so going a non-whey route would result in a *lot* of excess calories

Did I read this right? You train 3 to 4 hours a day in 2 sessions? What possesses you to train that long and often? How do you do that? How do you find the time? I used to train up to 2 hours, maybe 3 or 4 days a week, and that was overtraining. 2 hours wiped me out.

Even the top professional bodybuilders don't train that long and often and they take buckets full of PEDs.

[lemel]

Hi Jaybird,

agree the BB section is good for tips etc I am trying to eat as clean as possible but do have a sweet tooth sometimes that lets me down. I want to reduce the calorie intake and drop fat but without reducing the muscle mass if possible.

(Are you taking a burner or thermos to help you shred the weight?) not sure what a burner or a thermos is

I take extra vitamins and minerals to be on the safe side

do not know what (Hydroxycut, followed by Animal Pak, Stak, Test, Universal Shock, Animal Beef Aminos, Animal Flex joint recovery), means but will look it up and look at casein powder as well while I am at it.

Thank you for your positive input along with others!

[JayBird]

For example I'll do a 1.5 to 2 hour session, twice a day, so need to get protein into me quickly (15 min protein window) so I go for the Whey Protein. Plus I need a min of 200g of protein a day, so going a non-whey route would result in a *lot* of excess calories

Did I read this right? You train 3 to 4 hours a day in 2 sessions? What possesses you to train that long and often? How do you do that? How do you find the time? I used to train up to 2 hours, maybe 3 or 4 days a week, and that was overtraining. 2 hours wiped me out.

Even the top professional bodybuilders don't train that long and often and they take buckets full of PEDs.

My typical routine (5 days a week):

Morning Session: 30 min of cardio + 1 hour of Weight Lifting

Evening Session: 45 min of cardio + 30 Minutes Focused Weight Training + 15 Minutes of HIIT

I enjoy working out. For me Cardio is easy (I just watch tele whilst doing it). I don't 'work' so I have plenty of time in morn & evening. I normally hit my condo gym in evening so it doesn't take long, and the 'proper' gym for the morning session (but that's a 5 min walk away).

I do break it out into 5 different body parts, focus on one body part each day till muscle failure, then I 'relax' on weekends (usually just stretches / pseudo-yoga / walking).

If you enjoy it, it can be fun!

[JayBird]

Hi Jaybird,

agree the BB section is good for tips etc I am trying to eat as clean as possible but do have a sweet tooth sometimes that lets me down. I want to reduce the calorie intake and drop fat but without reducing the muscle mass if possible.

(Are you taking a burner or thermos to help you shred the weight?) not sure what a burner or a thermos is

I take extra vitamins and minerals to be on the safe side

do not know what (Hydroxycut, followed by Animal Pak, Stak, Test, Universal Shock, Animal Beef Aminos, Animal Flex joint recovery), means but will look it up and look at casein powder as well while I am at it.

Thank you for your positive input along with others!

I love my sweets, and go through a lot of chocolate. Not sure it works for you (or anyone else), but I never take chocolate after noon, and usually have it as part of my breakfast (or Nutella & bread for breaky). That usually curbs the sweet tooth. Then I only have cakes/etc. when I'm out on the weekend (Honey Toast.... mmm.. ).

Fat Burners and Thermogenics help you burn fat when exercising. These are *NOT* diet pills or fat blockers. Fat Burners / Thermos only really work if you are out and about exercising. They really only kick in if you do some intense exercises, but they make a big difference when they kick in. Also worth while to add it to your routine.

I recommend looking up Hydroxycut Hardcore Elite (you can even but in Thailand) or Animal Cuts (never tried it, but heard its good).

The rest of the nutrients can be helpful but you need to see what you need for your own self. But the fat burner is one that I would consider always adding ASAP. The rest can come later as you realize what you need (and I would start with either Animal Pak or a really good combo of vitamins/minerals/aminos). The rest are good if you are also trying to pack on muscles. When I was in Switzerland I was able to source some good Liquid Chicken Amino and I could really see the difference in muscle development as it was absorbed as I worked out. The pills are good but not QUITE as good.

Of course, the MOST IMPORTANT thing is: Find a routine that works for YOU and stick with it.

[Joelss]

Probably would recommend Nutrition Depot at Pattayasaisong (Sorry, but I dont remember exact location).It costed me around 560 bat back then for 2lbs, (around 14 dollars according to http://ex-rate.com/convert/thb/560-to-eur.html), but I dont know the exact price now. So here you go.

[tropo]

For example I'll do a 1.5 to 2 hour session, twice a day, so need to get protein into me quickly (15 min protein window) so I go for the Whey Protein. Plus I need a min of 200g of protein a day, so going a non-whey route would result in a *lot* of excess calories

Did I read this right? You train 3 to 4 hours a day in 2 sessions? What possesses you to train that long and often? How do you do that? How do you find the time? I used to train up to 2 hours, maybe 3 or 4 days a week, and that was overtraining. 2 hours wiped me out.

Even the top professional bodybuilders don't train that long and often and they take buckets full of PEDs.

My typical routine (5 days a week):

Morning Session: 30 min of cardio + 1 hour of Weight Lifting

Evening Session: 45 min of cardio + 30 Minutes Focused Weight Training + 15 Minutes of HIIT

I enjoy working out. For me Cardio is easy (I just watch tele whilst doing it). I don't 'work' so I have plenty of time in morn & evening. I normally hit my condo gym in evening so it doesn't take long, and the 'proper' gym for the morning session (but that's a 5 min walk away).

I do break it out into 5 different body parts, focus on one body part each day till muscle failure, then I 'relax' on weekends (usually just stretches / pseudo-yoga / walking).

If you enjoy it, it can be fun!

I've got to give you and A+++ for enthusiasm. For me it's a job that needs to be done. I've never found exercising fun, but I've been at it for 40 years.

[lemel]

Thank you Joe for the tip and cheers jay bird again for the info, I will read up on it and look into it in more detail. It helps when other people have tried things and they work and you get a good indication of what to do. I agree with you, do what works for you! I have found that doing what I do now works for me, I want to add in a 300m swim each day but don't have the energy for that at the moment.

Need to get my fitness levels up and include a small swim into the equation and start to build up. Once I got back into the routine I loved it, worked out for over 25 years before but getting older means it's harder to match those earlier targets, gains etc. Now got my focus back! Thanks for all your input guys! Time to get up and get off to the gym!

[JayBird]

I hear a lot about that 'getting older' stuff. I could quote you Sex in the City and say 50 is the new 40, or a nice old song about you being only as old as you feel. But yes, as you get older, body parts tend to wear down. But if you haven't actually broken/busted/worn out anything (and you aren't trying to be a gymnast or hit new world records) your age should not play that much into it. Obviously see a doctor first, especially if you have any physical conditions. But just to 'get into shape', you absolutely can do it at any ages.

I'm presuming you are Male there, so there may be this 'T' thing going on (shortage of the normal Testosterone in men as we age). You could get a quick physical from your doc to see if this is the case or not. I don't know about getting Testosterone, but I do know there's plenty of stuff on the market that helps boost your body's natural production of testosterone. In fact, Animal (no, I'm not a sales man!) also do the Animal Test which boosts testosterone. It's not cheap, and it may make you feel a bit more mean/aggressive, and you'll most likely wake up every morning with a tent pole in your sheets, but it will help with concentration, motivation, physical strength/endurance, and (I believe) with helping to pack on muscle.

Might be worth considering or trying out yourself. Some people say it does nothing. My experience is it did little until I finished the first can, then a lot after the second (and the company says you need to finish two cans).

[tropo]

I hear a lot about that 'getting older' stuff. I could quote you Sex in the City and say 50 is the new 40, or a nice old song about you being only as old as you feel. But yes, as you get older, body parts tend to wear down. But if you haven't actually broken/busted/worn out anything (and you aren't trying to be a gymnast or hit new world records) your age should not play that much into it. Obviously see a doctor first, especially if you have any physical conditions. But just to 'get into shape', you absolutely can do it at any ages.

I'm presuming you are Male there, so there may be this 'T' thing going on (shortage of the normal Testosterone in men as we age). You could get a quick physical from your doc to see if this is the case or not. I don't know about getting Testosterone, but I do know there's plenty of stuff on the market that helps boost your body's natural production of testosterone. In fact, Animal (no, I'm not a sales man!) also do the Animal Test which boosts testosterone. It's not cheap, and it may make you feel a bit more mean/aggressive, and you'll most likely wake up every morning with a tent pole in your sheets, but it will help with concentration, motivation, physical strength/endurance, and (I believe) with helping to pack on muscle.

Might be worth considering or trying out yourself. Some people say it does nothing. My experience is it did little until I finished the first can, then a lot after the second (and the company says you need to finish two cans).

Did you do any before and after blood tests to see what your testosterone numbers were? It would also be interesting to see what your estradiol numbers were too.

I'm a skeptic when it comes to "natural" supplements raising testosterone levels. How do they raise testosterone levels? Do the raised levels interfere with the HPG access and result in lower production, or do they somehow increase production naturally?

There could be other factors influencing your testosterone levels and aggression.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-testosterone-alone-doesnt-cause-violence/

[JayBird]

Nope, no tests. Just decided to give it a try and see what happens. I noticed a difference. It could possibly be incidental or a side-effect other than raising Testosterone. And maybe one day I'll do the blood workup to see. But it is quite common as you age for your testosterone to decrease. And the suggestion is this should help increase natural production. So I gave it a whirl

[anto]

If it makes you look anything like Tim Sharkey ,i am out .

[tropo]

Nope, no tests. Just decided to give it a try and see what happens. I noticed a difference. It could possibly be incidental or a side-effect other than raising Testosterone. And maybe one day I'll do the blood workup to see. But it is quite common as you age for your testosterone to decrease. And the suggestion is this should help increase natural production. So I gave it a whirl

I'm sure those testosterone boosting supplements cost plenty. It's easy to test them out and know for sure... and save the rest of us the cost of having to experiment... Go off them for a couple of weeks, test your testosterone levels - about 600 baht. Go back on and retest in a week or so. No more guess work.

FWIW, real testosterone shots will set you back between 65 baht and 130 baht per 1 - 3 weeks, depending on what level you're shooting for.

Regarding protein powders, natural bodybuilders/athletes will gain muscle so slowly that very little extra protein is required on a daily basis. Protein supplements are also great for lazy eaters who don't feel like eating a lot of meat and/or preparing food. I love a protein shake straight after an intense workout as I'm not into eating at that point in time and it saves me having to stress out about getting food when I'm not in the mood. One before bed is not a bad idea for people who train very hard, but that would depend on the time a person eats their last meal.

The supplement manufacturers really exaggerate protein needs, but that's to be expected. Bodybuilding supplement manufacturers are not the most reputable sources of information. For example, they have photos of extremely juiced up bodybuilders on the containers and in the magazine ads, sporting physiques natural bodybuilders could never achieve.

Edited April 9, 2016 by tropo

[Hal65]

Regarding protein powders, natural bodybuilders/athletes will gain muscle so slowly that very little extra protein is required on a daily basis. Protein supplements are also great for lazy eaters who don't feel like eating a lot of meat and/or preparing food.

It's exactly this kind of shaming that turns off so many people from fitness.

If you're on the fence about getting started again, walking is great. Don't let people tell you otherwise.

The same applies to dieting. Life is busy. Protein powders give you protein. Just like other protein sources. You shouldn't rely on them as your sole source of protein because foods offer so much more. That's why we call them supplements.

Advanced lifters benefit from protein supplements also. A common protein target is 0.8 g - 1g per pound of bodyweight during a bulking cycle, and 1.0 to 1.2 g per lb during cutting.

Very few fitness guys and lifters in general are adamantly against protein powders. Tropo's position is in the minority. I encourage the guys on the fence about getting into fitness and weight lifting to do their research and see if the protein recommendations commonly are genuine and scientifically supported by reputable studies... or if they are just the result of supplement industry marketing as suggested in this thread.

[JayBird]

One thing for sure is, no matter what supplement, protein, exercise you do, you are not going to burst and have a body builder's body overnight. You'll only get that after you are doing *serious* and regular weight lifting. No matter what the commercials say about becoming 'totally' ripped in 7 weeks or your money back!

You need to choose your protein, and supplements, depending on your needs, body and metabolism. For me, I need my protein powder otherwise I'll exceed my caloric intake if I try to get sufficient protein from just meat. On the flip side, if you are bulking or can take in a lot of calories you may opt to just eat a couple of fresh chickens a day instead of powder

Other supplements you take depending on your needs and what they do. I like the vitamin ones (vitamins are good), as well as the Aminos. The Joint Recovery supplements I take because I do have busted up joints (I've broken everything in my body at least once). The Test Booster was just to see if it would work. So far I'm okey with the results, and I may take up doing the blood work test next time I cycle back into it.

But then again, I *do* exercise up to 4 hours/day. And I *DO* have a habit of going for long walks (in hot weather), which helps burn up additional nutrients. If you are not doing this your needs will obviously be different

A good, and often recommended, baseline is to make sure you get enough protein in you (if you can get by with eating clean turkey breast every day, great, if not, maybe supplement with the odd protein shake every night before bed or after workout). Always make sure you get enough vitamins (if you can source it all from fruit and veg, awesome, if you feel you need more, than something as simple as Centrum or one of the Animal/Workout supplements out there).

On top of that you want to make sure you got your electrolytes covered (especially if you are working out in hot conditions where you'll sweat/pass-out faster ).

And finally, if burning fat, always helpful to have some sort of thermogenic/fat-burner.

I guess that's a lot of stuff But 90% of your results are going to come from simply eating healthy and exercising sensibly. If you got all that under control, the stuff I recommended above will get you that extra 10%

Btw, yes, it can cost a lot (especially here in Thailand). If you do trips back to US or Europe it might be useful to get stuff there and bring over. I do notice that Muscletech has a site out here (muscletech Thailand) and their prices seem to be comparable to US/Europe prices, so worth looking there (I get my Hydroxycut Elite from them).

[TheCruncher]

Nope, no tests. Just decided to give it a try and see what happens. I noticed a difference. It could possibly be incidental or a side-effect other than raising Testosterone. And maybe one day I'll do the blood workup to see. But it is quite common as you age for your testosterone to decrease. And the suggestion is this should help increase natural production. So I gave it a whirl

I'm sure those testosterone boosting supplements cost plenty. It's easy to test them out and know for sure... and save the rest of us the cost of having to experiment... Go off them for a couple of weeks, test your testosterone levels - about 600 baht. Go back on and retest in a week or so. No more guess work.

FWIW, real testosterone shots will set you back between 65 baht and 130 baht per 1 - 3 weeks, depending on what level you're shooting for.

Regarding protein powders, natural bodybuilders/athletes will gain muscle so slowly that very little extra protein is required on a daily basis. Protein supplements are also great for lazy eaters who don't feel like eating a lot of meat and/or preparing food. I love a protein shake straight after an intense workout as I'm not into eating at that point in time and it saves me having to stress out about getting food when I'm not in the mood. One before bed is not a bad idea for people who train very hard, but that would depend on the time a person eats their last meal.

The supplement manufacturers really exaggerate protein needs, but that's to be expected. Bodybuilding supplement manufacturers are not the most reputable sources of information. For example, they have photos of extremely juiced up bodybuilders on the containers and in the magazine ads, sporting physiques natural bodybuilders could never achieve.

FWIW, real testosterone shots will set you back between 65 baht and 130 baht per 1 - 3 weeks, depending on what level you're shooting for.

Where can you get testosterone shots that cheap?

[tropo]

Regarding protein powders, natural bodybuilders/athletes will gain muscle so slowly that very little extra protein is required on a daily basis. Protein supplements are also great for lazy eaters who don't feel like eating a lot of meat and/or preparing food.

It's exactly this kind of shaming that turns off so many people from fitness.

If you're on the fence about getting started again, walking is great. Don't let people tell you otherwise.

The same applies to dieting. Life is busy. Protein powders give you protein. Just like other protein sources. You shouldn't rely on them as your sole source of protein because foods offer so much more. That's why we call them supplements.

Advanced lifters benefit from protein supplements also. A common protein target is 0.8 g - 1g per pound of bodyweight during a bulking cycle, and 1.0 to 1.2 g per lb during cutting.

Very few fitness guys and lifters in general are adamantly against protein powders. Tropo's position is in the minority. I encourage the guys on the fence about getting into fitness and weight lifting to do their research and see if the protein recommendations commonly are genuine and scientifically supported by reputable studies... or if they are just the result of supplement industry marketing as suggested in this thread.

You totally misinterpret everything I've said about protein and make too much of the "lazy" word I used. Where in my post did I say I'm "adamantly against protein powders"? I actually suggested the best times to use them.

At various points in my training over the years I've gone through buckets full of protein powder and it was indeed because I was lazy to prepare food, so I'm also guilty as charged. I'll put money down that over my years in the gym I've used more protein powder than anyone you know. That could also be interpreted as: I've wasted more money on protein powders than anyone you know.

Regarding "Tropo's position is in the minority"... Yes the voice of reason is usually in the minority. Just about everything I'll tell you about training will be in the minority because people usually follow the crowd and don't think about what they are doing or question why they are doing what they are doing. I can visit any exercise facility and see the majority either wasting their time or doing it all wrong. This is what happens when you've been at it as long as I have. I've made all the mistakes. I'm not here to motivate anyone - I'm here to tell it like it is.

Edited April 10, 2016 by tropo

[tropo]

Nope, no tests. Just decided to give it a try and see what happens. I noticed a difference. It could possibly be incidental or a side-effect other than raising Testosterone. And maybe one day I'll do the blood workup to see. But it is quite common as you age for your testosterone to decrease. And the suggestion is this should help increase natural production. So I gave it a whirl

I'm sure those testosterone boosting supplements cost plenty. It's easy to test them out and know for sure... and save the rest of us the cost of having to experiment... Go off them for a couple of weeks, test your testosterone levels - about 600 baht. Go back on and retest in a week or so. No more guess work.

FWIW, real testosterone shots will set you back between 65 baht and 130 baht per 1 - 3 weeks, depending on what level you're shooting for.

Regarding protein powders, natural bodybuilders/athletes will gain muscle so slowly that very little extra protein is required on a daily basis. Protein supplements are also great for lazy eaters who don't feel like eating a lot of meat and/or preparing food. I love a protein shake straight after an intense workout as I'm not into eating at that point in time and it saves me having to stress out about getting food when I'm not in the mood. One before bed is not a bad idea for people who train very hard, but that would depend on the time a person eats their last meal.

The supplement manufacturers really exaggerate protein needs, but that's to be expected. Bodybuilding supplement manufacturers are not the most reputable sources of information. For example, they have photos of extremely juiced up bodybuilders on the containers and in the magazine ads, sporting physiques natural bodybuilders could never achieve.

FWIW, real testosterone shots will set you back between 65 baht and 130 baht per 1 - 3 weeks, depending on what level you're shooting for.

Where can you get testosterone shots that cheap?

That's the DIY price. If you need to pay someone to shoot it, then visit a clinic and inquire. If you use a clinic - byo.

Edited April 10, 2016 by tropo