USAA Ending Non-U.S. ATM Fee Rebates

[gentlemanjackdarby]

This will probably be of interest only to U.S. expats and visitors, but while reviewing my December USAA SAVINGS account statement this morning, I came across the following disclosure:

EFFECTIVE MARCH 1, 2016, TRANSACTIONS AT ATMS LOCATED OUTSIDE OF THE UNITED STATES MAY NOT BE ELIGIBLE FOR ATM USAGE FEE REFUNDS. SEE FEE SCHEDULE ON USAA.COM

This disclosure WAS NOT on my December CHECKING account statement.

So, I dutifully tracked down the USAA Fee Disclosure, effective 3/1/2016, on the website which had the following disclosure:

USAA Bank refunds up to $15 in other United States domestic banks’ ATM usage fees per monthly statement cycle. Transactions at ATMs located outside of the United States may not be eligible for ATM usage fee refunds.

So I then dug up the USAA Depository Agreement and Disclosures on the website and, under the Automated Teller Machine (ATM) Cards and Debit Cards section of the Electronic Banking Services section, found no disclosures whatsoever regarding what “... may not…” means, ie; what are the new rules effective March 1.

The link to the USAA Fee Schedule and Depository Agreement and Disclosures is:

https://content.usaa.com/mcontent/static_assets/Media/DaD0406_BillPay0704_SvcFee0606.pdf?cacheid=501834402_p?SearchRanking=1&SearchLinkPhrase=depository%20agreement

After spending one hour on the phone with two different USAA drones-on-the-phones, the only thing I could get out of USAA was that the definition of “may not” relates to U.S. service personnel who are on deployment outside the U.S., ie; USAA “may” rebate ATM fees for armed service members - anyone else is SOL and, to add insult to injury, USAA confirmed that the rules under which “may not” applies is not disclosed in writing on either the Fee Disclosure or the Depository Agreement and Disclosures.

I won’t presume to judge whether the existing $15 per month rebate scheme is significant to any BMs (don’t want to ignite another tiresome “Cheap Charlie” thread) - just came across the change and thought it might be of interest.

All-in-all, pretty shabby treatment by USAA of its customers, not so much in the fact that the non-U.S. ATM fee rebate is disappearing, but what amounts to, effectively, “non-disclosure” - a statement on savings accounts but not checking accounts and no complete and comprehensive disclosure on the Fee Schedule.

[honoluludave]

Not too happy about that. But thanks for the info

[Pib]

My USAA debit card lives in the darkness of my safe since it charges a 1% foreign transaction fee. When I first got the card about 5 years ago I decided I wanted to give it a complete test to ensure I could get money from a Thai ATM and also see if the ATM rebate occurred. Used a Bangkok Bank ATM. Card worked in the ATM as advertised...got my money. But after a month or so I didn't get the ATM rebate. Called USAA...they said give it another few weeks. After another statement came out and still no rebate I had another call and email exchange. They kept saying some ATM don't clearly identify the ATM fee separately which may cause the rebate not to occur---I figured this was BS. Anyway, ended up have to scan and email to USAA the Bangkok Bank ATM receipt showing the fee...finally got the rebate issued.

So with a 1% foreign transaction fee and manual effort required over several months to get the rebate, my USAA debit card lives in the safe. Just the 1% fee is enough to get room in my safe. Completely satisfied with all other USAA banking support...they are a primary bank for me.....expat friendly also (except the ATM rebate thing).

[Langsuan Man]

I never used my USAA Debit Card in Thailand because their 1% foreign exchange fee was more than their ATM fee reimbursement, this is also the reasons I gave up their Master Card

Getting rid of their Master Card was like one of those horror stories you hear about people trying to cancel Comcast

If you live in the US you are constantly blasted with TV commercials for USAA, definitely no longer low key and they wear their Fortune 500 ranking like a Commendation Medal

Their latest boondoggle is that you now must have a text enabled cell phone number in your member profile to receive OTP's or you must call them and perform certain banking transactions on the phone. A problem for me that was solved by a fellow Thai Visa member who's solution was to obtain a Google Voice number that can be used to accept text OTP's

I can just imagine some poor grunt in Afghanistan trying to do banking and having to deal with their CSR's by phone in a war zone

Sorry to see such a fine organization that was initially set up to assist US service members become a money grubbing for profit business

[Pib]

Just another way how banksters increase fee profits by making small adjustments to their fee policies...small adjustments equals big dollars. Small adjustments usually don't enrage the majority of customers (if they even notice the change). Might upset some of them for a little but then they get over it...rationalize it away as just a sign of the times....products/services continuing to cost a little more each year.

Oh well, what can I do a person may think? Maybe try getting another bank account that does reimburse without hassle...and keep the old bank account if desired. A person usually has to have several accounts with different banks to get the best combination of services/products (and lowest fees) to fit a person's financial requirements.

I treat my bank accounts like most any other products/services...I keep my eyes open for better deals...switch to a new bank to get a better deal (but I admit that can get challenging sometimes once moving away from the U.S.) and close those accounts which use to be a good deal but over time turned into not so good of a deal. Works for me at least so far.

Compliments to the OP for noticing the policy change notice on the January statement. I hadn't noticed it because I usually don't even look at my e-statements anymore as long as my account balances and translations look right on the USAA ibanking screens. I did scan back through about 6 months of e-statements to see if the ATM rebate notice first appeared earlier than the Jan statement and it wasn't on any of those statements.

[gentlemanjackdarby]

I never used my USAA Debit Card in Thailand because their 1% foreign exchange fee was more than their ATM fee reimbursement, this is also the reasons I gave up their Master Card

Getting rid of their Master Card was like one of those horror stories you hear about people trying to cancel Comcast

If you live in the US you are constantly blasted with TV commercials for USAA, definitely no longer low key and they wear their Fortune 500 ranking like a Commendation Medal

Their latest boondoggle is that you now must have a text enabled cell phone number in your member profile to receive OTP's or you must call them and perform certain banking transactions on the phone. A problem for me that was solved by a fellow Thai Visa member who's solution was to obtain a Google Voice number that can be used to accept text OTP's

I can just imagine some poor grunt in Afghanistan trying to do banking and having to deal with their CSR's by phone in a war zone

Sorry to see such a fine organization that was initially set up to assist US service members become a money grubbing for profit business

Thanks for mentioning the Google Voice option for USAA OTPs - I'm glad to hear that GV works with USAA.

GV doesn't work with Bank of America or Wells Fargo OTPs - Based on my research, it isn't GVs fault. BofA and WF either "do something" to the text format so that it fails when sent to GV or they've found some way to "discriminate" against GV numbers. Of course, neither will disclose what the problem is.

I've had GV for several years and it's great, especially being able to see the OTPs on the GV web page - eliminates the need for a cell phone except for the "problem children" of BofA and WF.

[Pib]

Once you add the GV number as one of your mobile numbers to your USAA profile it must season for 30 days before it can be used for certain things like setting up new funds transfer links. But for other things like Alerts it starts working immediately.

[nojoma]

thanks for the heads up on atm rebate.......didnt even know about 1% foreign transaction fee.....usaa service has definitely turned to shit over last 10 years

[maewang99]

I'd like to see a survey of different folks who get US Social Security, some who use the bullet proof Bangkok Bank direct deposit option and others that use US based banks and withdraw using ATM cards. Forget about just the fees, but what are the actual exchange rates which is where 'banksters' can really clean up, obviously. How much of the gross Social Security old age benefit, as a percentage, actually comes out of the ATM machine in Baht and into your hands for the US bank option versus what the BBL teller girl hands over to yourself in the living flesh... which is why the US government will ***never not*** continue to be happy with this arrangement, as well as Bangkok Bank.

I don't get Social Security yet and know not enough folks who do yet to get a good idea on this.... but will in a few years and know some now who think they are better off with US banks and ATM cards. I think Bangkok Bank is worth the hassle (I need 100 Baht notes anyways, not 1,000s so I have to go to the bank anyways) because they and the US government will always like this deal, the other way of using banks in the USA and ATM cards is not and probably won't last much longer anyway unless ATM machines start to have bullet proof biometrics (in Thailand not USA).... which I would guess is so far off into the future it will never happen).

It just seems to me Bangkok Bank direct deposit, is the way to go, if for the actual exchange rate alone let alone that it is likely to never have any hassles around it or subject to change because it works so good for avoiding any funny business.

[Langsuan Man]

You may re-think Bangkok Bank is the way to go once you start receiving SS and have to go to a branch every month to prove you are alive. That is the reason most SS recipients here opt for Direct Deposit to their US bank and then transfer money to Thailand via the various options available without having 'proof of life" every month

[Pib]

If you have a no foreign transaction fee debit card like the Schwab debit card that also reimburses ATM fees and since the Visa/Mastercard exchange rate is plus or minus a few stang of the Thai bank TT Buying Rate used for incoming international trasnfers like ACH transfers to Bangkok Bank, then using the no foreign transaction fee debit card is the winner for the amount of baht that ends up in your hands since there are no fees incurred anywhere along the way.

The TT Buying Rate and card network exchange rate is basically a wash, there is effectively no ATM fee since it's reimbursed and there is no bank clerk fee to hand you money so that is a wash, but with the transfer method you incur the Bangkok Bank New York branch fee which is usually $5 or $10 for typical amounts transferred and your local Bangkok Bank recieving fee of 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max).

Now where I say the exchange rate is a wash I mean when you compare it over multiple days and weeks...but let's just do "today's" comparison for an example. The Bangkok Bank TT Buying Rate 0830am was 36.06 (and as of writing of this post at 2:20pm it has not changed)...plus the opening rate for the day is usually what you get for incoming transfers from the U.S. since the transfers usually arrive overnight and get the bank opening rate/the 0830am rate. The Visa exchange rate for today is 36.17. So, the Visa rate actually significantly beats the Bangkok Bank TT Buying Rate for today. But a comparison tomorrow might show the Visa rate a few stang lower than the TT Buying Rate.

Now if you don't have a no foreign transaction fee debit card that reimburses and instead have a card that charges a 1 to 3% foreign transaction fee and don't reimburse, then using the ACH transfer/deposit method to Bangkok Bank will put more money in your pocket when the fee and exchange rate dust settles. I've got several no foreign transaction fee debit cards that reimburse...due to those cards I haven't needed to do an ACH transfer and incur the associated fees since early 2011.

[JimGant]

Thanks for mentioning the Google Voice option for USAA OTPs - I'm glad to hear that GV works with USAA.

Yeah, GV is included in their Tier 2 Mobile list.

And thanks, Pib, for turning me on to the GV option for USAA. Just a few weeks ago I changed my USAA profile Mobile number to my GV number. And last week, USAA needed to get hold of me by voice, so they called my Mobile number on file (which, as said, is now my GV number), and had to leave a voicemail. Well, the voicemail was near instantly transcribed and sent to my email address (then I called them using their toll free number here in Thailand). Neat.

[JimGant]

It just seems to me Bangkok Bank direct deposit, is the way to go, if for the actual exchange rate alone

Not hardly. In addition to the reasons in Langsuan's post, the exchange rate you'll get with a SS (or other US Gov't check) Direct Deposit is identical to what you'd get if you did an ACH transfer from your US bank account -- because both methods subtract $5/$10 front end at Bangkok Bank NY, 200-500 baht back end in Thailand, and both use the TT rate. So, best find a US bank with no ACH transfer fees, and don't close that account when you move to Thailand -- 'cause you'll appreciate NOT having Direct Deposit after you've had your first stroke.

[Langsuan Man]

Thanks for mentioning the Google Voice option for USAA OTPs - I'm glad to hear that GV works with USAA.

Yeah, GV is included in their Tier 2 Mobile list.

And thanks, Pib, for turning me on to the GV option for USAA. Just a few weeks ago I changed my USAA profile Mobile number to my GV number. And last week, USAA needed to get hold of me by voice, so they called my Mobile number on file (which, as said, is now my GV number), and had to leave a voicemail. Well, the voicemail was near instantly transcribed and sent to my email address (then I called them using their toll free number here in Thailand). Neat.

As Pip warned me they have to have your cell ( GV ) number on file for a certain amount of time before it can be used for an OTP

But your post is worrisome since it appears that USAA is now using your cell phone number as their first choice for contacting members

[Pib]

Thanks for mentioning the Google Voice option for USAA OTPs - I'm glad to hear that GV works with USAA.

Yeah, GV is included in their Tier 2 Mobile list.

And thanks, Pib, for turning me on to the GV option for USAA. Just a few weeks ago I changed my USAA profile Mobile number to my GV number. And last week, USAA needed to get hold of me by voice, so they called my Mobile number on file (which, as said, is now my GV number), and had to leave a voicemail. Well, the voicemail was near instantly transcribed and sent to my email address (then I called them using their toll free number here in Thailand). Neat.

As Pip warned me they have to have your cell ( GV ) number on file for a certain amount of time before it can be used for an OTP

But your post is worrisome since it appears that USAA is now using your cell phone number as their first choice for contacting members

That's fine if they want to call and leave a voicemail on my GV number as I have a please leave a message greeting on it. As Jim said, it just gets converted to an audio file and emailed to you. Same thing happens on my home phone number (another leave a message greeting) which is actually my NetTalk (like MajicJack) U.S. phone number which is my primarily phone number. Plus, even if USAA did use my international DTAC number I only have my smartphone turned on when leaving the house...not turned on very much...they get another leave a message greeting. Getting me on the phone ain't that easy unless I happen to be home and hear the home phone ring upstairs.

Summary: no matter how they would try to call me, which they never have, they would probably be leaving a voice mail. And when I called back and they possibly ask why I wasn't calling from my mobile number I would just say I don't use it much....like the house phone much better. And just to repeat, USAA has never called me....I guess that is reserved for high net-worth customers like Jim.

[JimGant]

And just to repeat, USAA has never called me....I guess that is reserved for high net-worth customers like Jim.

USAA has never called me before, at least not in the Internet age. And they have my Thai landline number in profile, but they never called that number (maybe they only call US numbers, unless extreme emergency, which this wasn't). Heretofore, the discussion on the subject had been by messages, seen when I signed into my online USAA account (and alerted to by email). But, it was getting close to 'must do' time.

Anyway, if your curious, I needed to shut down a trust before year's end (so I could K-1 all the accumulated stock losses in TY2015). Attaching my signature stamp to a PDF form, which I know I've done successfully many time before, didn't take -- twice (and this is what the phone call was about). So, I had to "flatten" the document by printing to Adobe PDF. Getting that email with the voicemail transcription -- almost instantaneously -- saved the day.

But your post is worrisome since it appears that USAA is now using your cell phone number as their first choice for contacting members

I think this was an exception due to the timeline. Messaging to my online account should still remain primary -- with an email to remind me to logon to read it.

[Langsuan Man]

They have also never called me either. It has always been by email, and as I tell most vendors " I don't do phone ". They always say that this call is being recorded for your protection or some other nonsense. Just try and get them to go back and play it when a CSR gives you wrong information. Hard to dispute an email

[BudRight]

I just got off the phone with them - they don't seem to know anything about this change, and the only thing the rep could find was the document linked in the OP. I politely communicated my displeasure. I won't be in Thailand at that time; if another forum member uses their USAA card after March 1st, can you please tell us if you receive the ATM fee reimbursement?

[Langsuan Man]

I find that sending their new CEO letter mail, a much more satisfying way of making my displeasure known, forces some suit to actually work to answer it

Stuart Parker. CEO

United Services Automobile Association

Executive Offices

10750 McDermott Freeway

San Antonio, TX 78288-9876 USA

[Tomtomtom69]

My USAA debit card lives in the darkness of my safe since it charges a 1% foreign transaction fee. When I first got the card about 5 years ago I decided I wanted to give it a complete test to ensure I could get money from a Thai ATM and also see if the ATM rebate occurred. Used a Bangkok Bank ATM. Card worked in the ATM as advertised...got my money. But after a month or so I didn't get the ATM rebate. Called USAA...they said give it another few weeks. After another statement came out and still no rebate I had another call and email exchange. They kept saying some ATM don't clearly identify the ATM fee separately which may cause the rebate not to occur---I figured this was BS. Anyway, ended up have to scan and email to USAA the Bangkok Bank ATM receipt showing the fee...finally got the rebate issued.

So with a 1% foreign transaction fee and manual effort required over several months to get the rebate, my USAA debit card lives in the safe. Just the 1% fee is enough to get room in my safe. Completely satisfied with all other USAA banking support...they are a primary bank for me.....expat friendly also (except the ATM rebate thing).

They only charge you a 1% foreign currency processing fee?

That's nothing and count yourself lucky.

​Seems like US banks are not that greedy, unless you count their appetite for overdraft fees, where if you go just one cent into overdraft you get charged a whooping US$35 per TRANSACTION that occurs while your account is in debit. So let's say you inadvertedly make 4 transactions while your account is in debit, that'll be US$140, please.

By contrast, Aussie banks are greedier when it comes to foreign currency processing fees. We get charged 3% and there has NEVER to the best of my knowledge, been any bank or credit union that refunds foreign ATM user fees. If they exist they must be one of the smaller banks or credit unions few people bank with.

So for years I've put up with 2-3% foreign currency conversion fees (it's been 3% since years in the case of most banks) and the ATM fee to boot (the Aussie one AND the foreign one). There are other ways to manage my money such as transfers to my Thai account but from time to time, ATM withdrawals are necessary. Also, as a regular traveler in the region, there is no way to avoid these fees if you're not in Thailand, even with a Thai bank.

ATM user fees are a reality at most bank ATMs not just in Thailand, but also in Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam and Myanmar. There are currently NO user fees at Chinese or Singaporean ATMs however. No idea about Malaysia as I haven't been there since 2007, though back then there weren't any.

The good news is Aussie banks only charge a A$9 dishonor fee if you go over your limit, at the very most. In most cases you don't get charged anything save for a little debit interest.

[Pib]

Yea, it harder in some countries to get no foreign transaction fee cards...but at least in the U.S. there are still a few no foreign transaction fee credit and debit cards from big name (and even little name) banks and credit card companies...banks/companies like Schwab, Capital One, and some others. I have six no foreign transaction fee debit (2) and credit cards (4)...my other debit/credit cards like my USAA debit card which do charge a fee live in the darkness of my safe.

[JimGant]

I sent USAA a message on their online messaging system re the subject of this thread. Here' their reply:

Please be advised that we can only refund the ATM fee if the ATM identifies the fee separately from the transaction. When you are charged an ATM fee, our debit card system will list the fee you were charged and automatically refund the fee. However, sometimes when you use a foreign ATM, the fee charged is not listed or identified separately that the withdrawal amount.

Can't imagine they can't identify a separate ATM fee -- Schwab and several others certainly can. But, as Pib and others have mentioned, just charging a 1% foreign transaction fee by itself is grounds (if you can't obtain a no fee/reimbursement card) to switch to ACHing money through Bangkok Bank NY:

Using 36 for comparison, just paying a 1% fee knocks your effective exchange rate to 35.64. However, ACHing $2000, with its $5 front end, 200 baht back end fees, gets you an effective FX rate of 35.81 ($1500, 35.75; $5000, 35.84). But, yeah, USAA does beat a Chase Debit/ATM card, with a 3% charge, a $5 flat fee, and no ATM fee reimbursement. Ouch!

One other interesting point, more curious than enriching, is that USAA's Debit/ATM cards are MasterCard/Cirrus -- and for whatever reason (trading pairs?) US Visa gets a better dollar/baht rate than MC/Cirrus. You can run the numbers yourself, but I looked at a relatively flat curve of FX rates in early 2015, and here's what I got (I did this a few years back, using a much longer sample, and got the same trend):

Feb 16: MC 32.36; Visa 32.55: Bangkok Bank TT: 32.46

Feb 24: MC 32.33; Visa 32.46; Bangkok Bank TT: 32.42

Mar 31: MC 32.32; Visa 32.49; Bangkok Bank TT: 32.41

So, for US plastic anyway, if you're going to use one with a fee, best get the Visa model.

Of course, with the dollar climbing, you may not come out ahead by ACHing a chunk of money to last several months, in comparison to hitting the ATM machine weekly. But, in flat times, only a no fee/reimbursement ATM card beats the ACH path (assuming also that your bank charges zip for an ACH transaction, which is today's norm).

[Pib]

Gosh, that USAA response brought back memories....I think it's a scripted response....the same response I got years ago when giving my new USAA debit card a try to ensure it works. And when I talked to them on the phone they gave the same tap dance in blaming the foreign ATM not separating out the fee...total BS. I say BS because I've used the same ATM with my other two debit cards (Schwab and St Farm) and they have never had an issue in automatically identifying the fee for reimbursement. The problem is all on USAA's end in how they dissect the incoming ATM data. ATM fee data is listed separately from the amount dispensed/withdrawn, but if the card-issuing bank does not wish to initially or when posting separate/display the fee then they don't...instead they just roll it into the amount withdrawn. But bottom line they can see the fee if they want to see it.

[JimGant]

Yep, add a 200 baht ATM fee to your 1% USAA card (or similar), and the effective rate decreases to 35.36 (from 36, per the example above). Any way you slice it, fee cards -- with or without ATM reimbursements -- are losers in the face of the ACH option. (Plus, the Be1st Smart Card can't be cloned -- yet -- and you can zero out the POS option, making it safe should it fall in evil hands.)

Repetitive stuff, I know. Sorry.

[BudRight]

I sent USAA a message on their online messaging system re the subject of this thread. Here' their reply:

Please be advised that we can only refund the ATM fee if the ATM identifies the fee separately from the transaction. When you are charged an ATM fee, our debit card system will list the fee you were charged and automatically refund the fee. However, sometimes when you use a foreign ATM, the fee charged is not listed or identified separately that the withdrawal amount.

Can't imagine they can't identify a separate ATM fee -- Schwab and several others certainly can. But, as Pib and others have mentioned, just charging a 1% foreign transaction fee by itself is grounds (if you can't obtain a no fee/reimbursement card) to switch to ACHing money through Bangkok Bank NY:

Using 36 for comparison, just paying a 1% fee knocks your effective exchange rate to 35.64. However, ACHing $2000, with its $5 front end, 200 baht back end fees, gets you an effective FX rate of 35.81 ($1500, 35.75; $5000, 35.84). But, yeah, USAA does beat a Chase Debit/ATM card, with a 3% charge, a $5 flat fee, and no ATM fee reimbursement. Ouch!

One other interesting point, more curious than enriching, is that USAA's Debit/ATM cards are MasterCard/Cirrus -- and for whatever reason (trading pairs?) US Visa gets a better dollar/baht rate than MC/Cirrus. You can run the numbers yourself, but I looked at a relatively flat curve of FX rates in early 2015, and here's what I got (I did this a few years back, using a much longer sample, and got the same trend):

Feb 16: MC 32.36; Visa 32.55: Bangkok Bank TT: 32.46

Feb 24: MC 32.33; Visa 32.46; Bangkok Bank TT: 32.42

Mar 31: MC 32.32; Visa 32.49; Bangkok Bank TT: 32.41

So, for US plastic anyway, if you're going to use one with a fee, best get the Visa model.

Of course, with the dollar climbing, you may not come out ahead by ACHing a chunk of money to last several months, in comparison to hitting the ATM machine weekly. But, in flat times, only a no fee/reimbursement ATM card beats the ACH path (assuming also that your bank charges zip for an ACH transaction, which is today's norm).

Thank you for the informative post. On a separate note, USAA is switching all their Mastercard cards to VISA: https://www.usaa.com/inet/pages/bk_CC_conversion_landing_mkt?adID=VURL_VISA

[Langsuan Man]

Thank you for the informative post. On a separate note, USAA is switching all their Mastercard cards to VISA: https://www.usaa.com/inet/pages/bk_CC_conversion_landing_mkt?adID=VURL_VISA

Your reference is about their Credit Cards

The foreign transaction fee is only being eliminated for USAA Visa credit cards. USAA Visa debit cards will continue to have a one percent fee associated with foreign transactions........

And it just refers to the 1% foreign transaction fee and does not address ATM Fee Rebates

[Pib]

That good to hear they are switching from Mastercard to Visa credit cards and their Visa credit will not carry a foreign transaction fee like the Mastercard did. That's an improvement in my book.

It also appear their debit cards will switch to Visa also but retain the 1% foreign transaction fee and only reimburse active duty troops on deployment or assigned overseas according to one of their Q&As quoted below....full version of LSM's above partial quote. And I didn't see any Q&A addressing reimbursement of local ATM fees like the Thai Bt180-200 fee.