British man found dead on Koh Tao

[glenmohr]

Granted, but how do cross border incursions in pursuit of terror suspects relate in any way to this thread?

The British govt will not put any pressure on Thailand to locate and punish the gang that has been killing British tourists on Koh Tao.

The various gang members captured in Laos by the Chinese special police force were neither religious nor state terrorists Eva, they were a motley group of mean and nasty drug dealers. The Chinese captured them in Laos, 2 Lao, one Burmese and one Thai.

And now the British Embassy ( Bangkok version) is refusing to re claim even the passport of Andy Hall who is carrying so much of the load personally to gain justice for so many.

The view of the British Embassy is that they cannot interfere in another jurisdiction, that fully justifies the murder of 8 million Jews. We could not interfere they thought.

Oddly enough the Chinese have little to no concept of human rights until you start killing Han Chinese then they spring into action.

Actually he states quite clearly via his social media accounts that they asked for it back and the court refused!

The Genocide to which you refer is another red herring, but for the record the allies DID 'interfere' when they overran the likes of Bergan/Belsen, Dachau, Auschwitz etc between Nov 1944 & May 1945; all of which occurring long before any tourist-related convention (to bring the thread back on topic) was drawn up.

My point exactly Eva. A decent country, and the UK was decent at that time 1944, WILL INTERFERE in another country's affairs when there is unnecessary killings. Nobody objected to Vietnam liberating the remaining Cambodians who had not been killed by Pol Pot. Human rights know no boundaries.

[JLCrab]

That's right -- if the unfortunate deceased were from NZ instead of UK, the NZ wold have sternly said and INTERFERED in the matter saying: No more frozen leg-of-lamb or Kiwi fruit for you!

[BobAK]

Actually he states quite clearly via his social media accounts that they asked for it back and the court refused!

The Genocide to which you refer is another red herring, but for the record the allies DID 'interfere' when they overran the likes of Bergan/Belsen, Dachau, Auschwitz etc between Nov 1944 & May 1945; all of which occurring long before any tourist-related convention (to bring the thread back on topic) was drawn up.

My point exactly Eva. A decent country, and the UK was decent at that time 1944, WILL INTERFERE in another country's affairs when there is unnecessary killings. Nobody objected to Vietnam liberating the remaining Cambodians who had not been killed by Pol Pot. Human rights know no boundaries.

Putting all the speculation to one side, a much more relevant question is why do you keep calling "evadgib" Eva? Why not call him by his TV name, or Dave?

[Khun Han]

^ Yes, imagine! They might well end up suffering an untimely accidental death, or suddenly decide to commit suicide by hanging themselves.

[JLCrab]

In another development Make Productions, an award winning documentary team based in London and Singapore ) were commissioned to make a one hour documentary on events leading up to the Koh Tao murders on Death Island and arrests/ trial of the B2.

<snip>

That development was announced last year: http://www.onscreenasia.com/article/make-productions-to-co-produce-tv-special/19341 (17 NOV 2015)

"(The special) is slated for broadcast early 2016."

Edited January 23, 2016 by JLCrab

[JLCrab]

<snip>

It is to be assumed this will be a hard hitting documentary and if the B 2 were guilty it would seem unlikely they would go to all this trouble.

The list of people who will need to be threatened now is growing exponentially. < snip>

The following is from the MFA website Application Form for Filming in Thailand:

I hereby agree that I shall abide by the Thai laws and regulations. particularly those relating to permission to work in Thailand. The filming process and end product shall not adversely affect the national security. public order good morals, environment and dignity of the Thai nation.

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/contents/images/text_editor/files/filming.pdf

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/media-center/1720/25551-Rules-and-Regulations.html

[jayjay78]

<snip>

It is to be assumed this will be a hard hitting documentary and if the B 2 were guilty it would seem unlikely they would go to all this trouble.

The list of people who will need to be threatened now is growing exponentially. < snip>

The following is from the MFA website Application Form for Filming in Thailand:

I hereby agree that I shall abide by the Thai laws and regulations. particularly those relating to permission to work in Thailand. The filming process and end product shall not adversely affect the national security. public order good morals, environment and dignity of the Thai nation.

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/contents/images/text_editor/files/filming.pdf

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/media-center/1720/25551-Rules-and-Regulations.html

I hear they've been and gone already but jeez I hope they informed the relevant authorities as to the rules and regulations you quoted!! No doubt thats the first priority of any investigative journalist who is making a documentary that potentially exposes alleged corruption in the Royal Thai Police

[JLCrab]

I don't have the slightest idea who they informed about what but that's a lot of camera gear to get through customs.

But I'm guessing if there were any major breakthroughs in their exposing corruption in the RTP being someone in the loop you would have already heard about it.

Edited January 24, 2016 by JLCrab

[SoiBiker]

You can shoot a broadcast-quality documentary nowadays with the kind of equipment many tourists bring on holiday. It would be extremely easy to bring it into the country without drawing attention to yourself.

[metisdead]

Posts containing links to Andrew Drummond's site have been removed. Please understand Thai Visa is not employed as a tool to obtain information for Andrew Drummond nor do we use material from his web site.

[JLCrab]

You're absolutely right -- one can surreptitiously bring in small equipment and make your doco and leave without ever notifying the authorities as is in the regulations but, being major UK and Singapore news outlets and a big-time production house, that might not bode well for the next time you would choose to enter the Kingdom on another assignment.

But we'll just have to wait to see if this will be a hard hitting documentary about the B2 being sent up the river.

[smedly]

<snip>

It is to be assumed this will be a hard hitting documentary and if the B 2 were guilty it would seem unlikely they would go to all this trouble.

The list of people who will need to be threatened now is growing exponentially. < snip>

The following is from the MFA website Application Form for Filming in Thailand:

I hereby agree that I shall abide by the Thai laws and regulations. particularly those relating to permission to work in Thailand. The filming process and end product shall not adversely affect the national security. public order good morals, environment and dignity of the Thai nation.

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/contents/images/text_editor/files/filming.pdf

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/media-center/1720/25551-Rules-and-Regulations.html

I hear they've been and gone already but jeez I hope they informed the relevant authorities as to the rules and regulations you quoted!! No doubt thats the first priority of any investigative journalist who is making a documentary that potentially exposes alleged corruption in the Royal Thai Police

The most we can expect from this is that they will highlight the many unanswered questions and cover some general points about DNA (and other) evidence and how it should be managed gathered and presented, it will be up to the viewer to fill in the gaps, I don't expect to hear anything I don't know or suspect already

[jayjay78]

The following is from the MFA website Application Form for Filming in Thailand:

I hereby agree that I shall abide by the Thai laws and regulations. particularly those relating to permission to work in Thailand. The filming process and end product shall not adversely affect the national security. public order good morals, environment and dignity of the Thai nation.

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/contents/images/text_editor/files/filming.pdf

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/media-center/1720/25551-Rules-and-Regulations.html

I hear they've been and gone already but jeez I hope they informed the relevant authorities as to the rules and regulations you quoted!! No doubt thats the first priority of any investigative journalist who is making a documentary that potentially exposes alleged corruption in the Royal Thai Police

The most we can expect from this is that they will highlight the many unanswered questions and cover some general points about DNA (and other) evidence and how it should be managed gathered and presented, it will be up to the viewer to fill in the gaps, I don't expect to hear anything I don't know or suspect already

Agreed. However they have a good pedigree with many awards including a BAFTA and have been responsible for real convictions in the criminal courts in the UK, I'm sure they know what their doing, here a small sample of their work http://www.makeproductions.com/awards/

[OMGImInPattaya]

All these young kids come to Thailand to drink, have sex, take illicit drugs (often) for weeks on end...nothing good usually comes of it. I've been to KT a half dozen times and received 3 diving certifications there and had a great time and lived to tell about it...so obviously it can be done. Just keep some modicum of control of yourself and you'll be fine.

[sartoric]

All these young kids come to Thailand to drink, have sex, take illicit drugs (often) for weeks on end...nothing good usually comes of it. I've been to KT a half dozen times and received 3 diving certifications there and had a great time and lived to tell about it...so obviously it can be done. Just keep some modicum of control of yourself and you'll be fine.

Yeah, that's fine, until it's not. Do you really think the several young people who have died there in tha past year or two were responsible for their own demise ?

[OMGImInPattaya]

All these young kids come to Thailand to drink, have sex, take illicit drugs (often) for weeks on end...nothing good usually comes of it. I've been to KT a half dozen times and received 3 diving certifications there and had a great time and lived to tell about it...so obviously it can be done. Just keep some modicum of control of yourself and you'll be fine.

Yeah, that's fine, until it's not. Do you really think the several young people who have died there in tha past year or two were responsible for their own demise ?

At least 50-60 percent.

[sartoric]

All these young kids come to Thailand to drink, have sex, take illicit drugs (often) for weeks on end...nothing good usually comes of it. I've been to KT a half dozen times and received 3 diving certifications there and had a great time and lived to tell about it...so obviously it can be done. Just keep some modicum of control of yourself and you'll be fine.

Yeah, that's fine, until it's not. Do you really think the several young people who have died there in tha past year or two were responsible for their own demise ?

At least 50-60 percent.

Okay, if that's accurate, and taking into consideration Nick Pearson, David Miller, Hannah Witheridge, Christina Annersley, Dimitri Povse and Luke Miller, which of those were responsible for their own untimely deaths ?

Once you've sorted that out, what about the other three ? Why is there no reliable answer to the cause of those deaths...

Edited January 24, 2016 by sartoric

[smedly]

All these young kids come to Thailand to drink, have sex, take illicit drugs (often) for weeks on end...nothing good usually comes of it. I've been to KT a half dozen times and received 3 diving certifications there and had a great time and lived to tell about it...so obviously it can be done. Just keep some modicum of control of yourself and you'll be fine.

Yeah, that's fine, until it's not. Do you really think the several young people who have died there in tha past year or two were responsible for their own demise ?

At least 50-60 percent.

I am sorry but putting a percentage on a murder is quite frankly ridiculous, it was either a murder or it wasn't there is no inbetween percentage and no justification or half way there type of murder, it is or it isn't - very simple

If you think young people deserve to be beaten to a pulp by a bunch of Thai thugs because they questioned them or stood up them then you must live in a very sad world indeed, the moral to this sad state of affairs is that these youngsters should be staying away from Koh Tao until the world sees something being done and justice is meated out to those responsible, if I heard of any of my relatives were considering a holiday there I would be objecting very strongly and doing everything I could to stop them

[glenmohr]

<snip>

It is to be assumed this will be a hard hitting documentary and if the B 2 were guilty it would seem unlikely they would go to all this trouble.

The list of people who will need to be threatened now is growing exponentially. < snip>

The following is from the MFA website Application Form for Filming in Thailand:

I hereby agree that I shall abide by the Thai laws and regulations. particularly those relating to permission to work in Thailand. The filming process and end product shall not adversely affect the national security. public order good morals, environment and dignity of the Thai nation.

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/contents/images/text_editor/files/filming.pdf

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/media-center/1720/25551-Rules-and-Regulations.html

I hear they've been and gone already but jeez I hope they informed the relevant authorities as to the rules and regulations you quoted!! No doubt thats the first priority of any investigative journalist who is making a documentary that potentially exposes alleged corruption in the Royal Thai Police

The most we can expect from this is that they will highlight the many unanswered questions and cover some general points about DNA (and other) evidence and how it should be managed gathered and presented, it will be up to the viewer to fill in the gaps, I don't expect to hear anything I don't know or suspect already

As always Smedley you write with a lot of reason.

The documentary, I am hoping, will be aimed at people who have not previously heard of Koh Tao. We may not be able to free the B2, we may not be able to convince the RTP to do their job which is policing, but the documentary hopefully will make folk who go there to be more circumspect and observe the rule " Never ever have a disagreement with a Thai after midnight" As Nichola has said" If one life can be saved in the future we have done good"

[smedly]

All these young kids come to Thailand to drink, have sex, take illicit drugs (often) for weeks on end...nothing good usually comes of it. I've been to KT a half dozen times and received 3 diving certifications there and had a great time and lived to tell about it...so obviously it can be done. Just keep some modicum of control of yourself and you'll be fine.

Yeah, that's fine, until it's not. Do you really think the several young people who have died there in tha past year or two were responsible for their own demise ?

At least 50-60 percent.

Okay, if that's accurate, and taking into consideration Nick Pearson, David Miller, Hannah Witheridge, Christina Annersley, Dimitri Povse and Luke Miller, which of those were responsible for their own untimely deaths ?

Once you've sorted that out, what about the other three ? Why is there no reliable answer to the cause of those deaths...

we are only talking possible murders here, I would expand it out to all crimes against foreigners that could easily have ended up as murder most of which go unreported, we have assaults - beatings - attempted rapes - rapes - murders - suspicious accidents, all on that tiny island

[glenmohr]

All these young kids come to Thailand to drink, have sex, take illicit drugs (often) for weeks on end...nothing good usually comes of it. I've been to KT a half dozen times and received 3 diving certifications there and had a great time and lived to tell about it...so obviously it can be done. Just keep some modicum of control of yourself and you'll be fine.

Yeah, that's fine, until it's not. Do you really think the several young people who have died there in tha past year or two were responsible for their own demise ?

At least 50-60 percent.

I suggest that it is a bit harsh to say that because you survived, those now 6 deceased young folk contributed significantly to their own downfall. Not many from Europe would have had any previous experience with a Thai mafia which is different from Sicilyan mafiosa. For example it is likely David Miller died because he tried to rescue another visitor who happened to be a woman. The fact that you survived may be related more to the fact that you did not try to rescue anyone

[OMGImInPattaya]

All these young kids come to Thailand to drink, have sex, take illicit drugs (often) for weeks on end...nothing good usually comes of it. I've been to KT a half dozen times and received 3 diving certifications there and had a great time and lived to tell about it...so obviously it can be done. Just keep some modicum of control of yourself and you'll be fine.

Yeah, that's fine, until it's not. Do you really think the several young people who have died there in tha past year or two were responsible for their own demise ?

At least 50-60 percent.

Okay, if that's accurate, and taking into consideration Nick Pearson, David Miller, Hannah Witheridge, Christina Annersley, Dimitri Povse and Luke Miller, which of those were responsible for their own untimely deaths ?

Once you've sorted that out, what about the other three ? Why is there no reliable answer to the cause of those deaths...

I am not blaming them for their own deaths...only that their own behavior was a contributing factor in their deaths. The fact of the matter is these "kids" come from a nanny state where all sorts of personal dangers and hazards are minimized by the government. They then visit developing countries and expect standards of safety, social norms, and policing to be the same. Unfortunately, as we here know that's not the case.

These visitors, many of them, are also likely lulled into a false sense of security by the peacefully seaming and friendly "natives." This, along with their partying leads many down dangerous paths. Some also become "friends" so they think with some of the locals and start to party with them and as we know, the most dangerous place to be in Thailand is with a group of Thais having a drinking party. Some also think they're "in with" these locals and start dabbling in things in which they shouldn't and when things go bad or there is a misunderstanding...well, we also know how issues of "face" are settled in these parts.

As I said, my friends and I have been to KT/Samui many times for recreating and general relaxation. We've also spent many a "chilled" nite at Sairee Beach and the now notorious AC Bar...and had a wonderful time. If you go there to relax, keep your head about you, and mind your own business you'll have no problems. It's just too bad some people have to learn this the hardest way.

[ffaarraanngg]

All these young kids come to Thailand to drink, have sex, take illicit drugs (often) for weeks on end...nothing good usually comes of it. I've been to KT a half dozen times and received 3 diving certifications there and had a great time and lived to tell about it...so obviously it can be done. Just keep some modicum of control of yourself and you'll be fine.

It markets itself as a party Island if everyone is tucked up in bed by midnight then they wouldn't bother going.

Quite clearly once people do have a drink they will make a tit of themselves, even the perfect people on this website must have done so before. In the west you may get a good hiding for doing so, in KT you get jumped on by gangs and if you upset the well connected you'll get murdered.

[sartoric]

They shouldn't have to "learn this the hardest way".

Thailand promotes itself as a holiday paradise, it should look after it's tourists. Not doing too well at that, eh ?

[ffaarraanngg]

They shouldn't have to "learn this the hardest way".

Thailand promotes itself as a holiday paradise, it should look after it's tourists. Not doing too well at that, eh ?

This would involve Thais having to accept when they have made errors and have a desire to alter the negative aspects of their country and individual personality, something which is so far beyond the Thai psyche it will never happen.

[sartoric]

They shouldn't have to "learn this the hardest way".

Thailand promotes itself as a holiday paradise, it should look after it's tourists. Not doing too well at that, eh ?

This would involve Thais having to accept when they have made errors and have a desire to alter the negative aspects of their country and individual personality, something which is so far beyond the Thai psyche it will never happen.

Of course, you're absolutely right. All the more reason to holiday elsewhere.

[OMGImInPattaya]

All these young kids come to Thailand to drink, have sex, take illicit drugs (often) for weeks on end...nothing good usually comes of it. I've been to KT a half dozen times and received 3 diving certifications there and had a great time and lived to tell about it...so obviously it can be done. Just keep some modicum of control of yourself and you'll be fine.

It markets itself as a party Island if everyone is tucked up in bed by midnight then they wouldn't bother going.

Quite clearly once people do have a drink they will make a tit of themselves, even the perfect people on this website must have done so before. In the west you may get a good hiding for doing so, in KT you get jumped on by gangs and if you upset the well connected you'll get murdered.

There's a big difference between being in a party mood and having a good time and just being plain dumb.

[OMGImInPattaya]

They shouldn't have to "learn this the hardest way".

Thailand promotes itself as a holiday paradise, it should look after it's tourists. Not doing too well at that, eh ?

50 million or so tourists (minus the 10 or so you mentioned) came to Thailand over the past couple years and 99.99 percent likely had a wonderful and uneventful holiday. It's unfortunate some people have a bad experience but when you go to these islands to get shitze-faced for your holiday bad stuff can happen.

Edited January 24, 2016 by OMGImInPattaya

[MrTee]

Is that a bit like how women are to blame for being raped if they wear bikinis?

[stephenterry]

Yeah, write these murders off as a bad experience. What is not acceptable is the obvious cover up by the authorities.