They Finally Got Me

[Rancid]

Yesterday had my first motorbike crash on the road, started on trail bikes at 16 and been road riding for 35 years.

Have been riding on Thai roads for 10 years and seen many amazing things, however there is mostly a certain pattern to the traffic flow.

However it wasn't the Thais that got me, it was a pair of Chinese tourists that pulled straight in front and then stopped on a blind curved bend.

I should have hit them square on as would have been less bruises for me, but instinct I suppose saw me try and get around and clipped the front of their bike and went down.

Amazing, would never have thought it would be Chinese that got me. Watched them ride off later and they were all over the road, totally incompetent. The guy said that as he was turning right (out of a petrol station) he didn't check the traffic on his right from habit. Apparently how they drive there.

Anyway just a heads up to everyone else, it's now even more dangerous than it used to be! Ironically I also got a Thai size settlement from the foreigners after the police gave their verdict after copping the missus' opinion.

[krey]

sorry to hear about your crash, it is common knowledge these days about the driving skills of the Chinese and perhaps the Koreans as well. From what I have seen.

1. They will stop in the middle of the road even though traffic is behind them to look at a map

2. If they are in groups if one moves towards the side the rest will follow crossing lanes and not looking over their shoulder

3. The no look drive out onto the street though many people are guilty for that

4. I believe some have never driven at all, super slow, highly unstable driving, have fear in their eyes

5. Seen a couple of times where they are looking around at the sights and hit the person in front

Thailand is like a video game, you got to expect pedestrians, motorbikes, cars, trucks, dogs, and practically anything that moves to pop out in front of you which I am sure you are aware, some days it almost seems that everyone is trying to kill you. I dont trust anyone when I am driving and really try to focus on every aspect of people in front, the side and even behind...

At least the Chinese seem to at least wear their helmets from what I have seen, love the falangs driving with the wind flowing through their hair, hope it is worth it when they get in an accident...

[moe666]

I flip my helmet up and scream at them to get the f------ out of the way and it does get their attention

[anto]

Defensive driving always .Learn to expect the unexpected on Thai roads .

[CMKiwi]

I too happened across a couple (Well actually 3 couples) of Chinese on scooters 2 days ago as I was turning from the moat into Chang Moi Rd. They were in the middle of the intersection deciding as to whether to go straight or turn.

I reminded them that its not wise to discuss matters in the middle of a congested intersection (Or words to that effect) Probably along the lines of going away in short jerky movements.

They had no idea and no responce....brain dead in reality.

[Lampang2]

I heard from a CM native girl that Chinese rents bikes as that's the cheapest possible way to get around.

If I remember the numbers

100 or 200 baht daily rental rate.

60 Baht gas / day

[BB1955]

They have no clue , it amazes me to see them on motorbikes . But also I see alot of younger backpackers riding scooters like they have 9 lives . If I see the rental markings on the back of the helmets I steer clear of them ....

[mihalis]

Chinese would be worse riders iv ever seen.. Plus they dont give a F!!!!!!!k

[Greenside]

Very experienced rider friend also hit by Chinese tourist in rental car pulling out as he was passing a small soi. Five months later and two lots of surgery he's still not anywhere near over it. He could have bought a car with the money it's cost, let alone the pain and inconvenience.

As the title of this thread implies, if you're riding a bike here it's When not If.

[louse1953]

I too happened across a couple (Well actually 3 couples) of Chinese on scooters 2 days ago as I was turning from the moat into Chang Moi Rd. They were in the middle of the intersection deciding as to whether to go straight or turn.

I reminded them that its not wise to discuss matters in the middle of a congested intersection (Or words to that effect) Probably along the lines of going away in short jerky movements.

They had no idea and no responce....brain dead in reality.

Were you speaking Chinese to them,or plain ol English that you expect them to understand.You should have shouted,that is the time honoured way to make foreigners understand.

[Sparkles]

Defensive driving always .Learn to expect the unexpected on Thai roads .

Sound advice whether you are riding a bicycle ,motor bike or driving a car.

My wife recently got her first licence at 53 years of age.After 3 months she is driving sensibly and obeying the "rules"

I still dont feel confident to let her drive without me sitting next to her.Unless its just our recent experinces but road users seem to be getting more

irresponsible. Some clown came roaring through a red light at Mae Hia yesterday nearly cleaning 2 of us up.

Maybe its time for camera surveilance which a lot of people will say "oh back to a nanny state" but apparently Chiang Mai province recorded the highest

number of accidents over the Christmas/New Year holiday. I have yet to se any police in cars or on bikes patrolling roads even at the busiset times surely

that might be a deterrent even to the dumbest drivers.

[khun custard]

Also a complete head spin for them because if they have ever held a licence and driven they do it on the "wrong side" of the road in China.

For a car, the adjustment from left hand to right hand drive, on unfamiliar roads is a recipe for disaster

[spidermike007]

All the more reason to drive super defensively, and use the best helmet you can afford. The tourists are a problem. Not just the Chinese. When I was on Samui, there were a lot of Europeans who had little experience riding, and had no idea what the rules were, what was safe and not safe, and just simply were way too casual, on what were the most dangerous roads on the planet, with the highest fatality rate per capita, than any other 500 sq. km. on earth! They did not have a clue. Sometimes I would pull over and say, do you have any idea who many tourists are sent home in body bags from this island, by driving exactly how you are driving? They were shocked. They had no idea stopping in a lane of traffic, on a very busy road, where people were driving very aggressively, was being careless, or was dangerous.

Best advice is to drive slower than you have to, keep your eyes glued to the road, maintain superior frontal, and rear road awareness, and always check in all directions, as often as possible. Never be casual on a bike in this country. Never.

I often remind myself, why did you move to this country? Well, one of the reasons is so that I would not have to race around like a madman. So, I tend to really take my time while driving. So I lose a few minutes. It really does not mean anything, and I am a lot safer as a result.

[laislica]

Was just in CM and saw convoys of Chinese Reg cars.

Our friend who lives in CM immediately slowed down and gave them distance because he already knows how unpredictable they are.

At least when they bring their own cars you are warned.

Rented cars give no idea who the driver is!

Saw two Chinese on a scooter, the one on the back showing his phone navi to the rider as they were moving,

hands waving all over the place as they decided which way to go!

Incredible.

[mike324]

All the more reason to drive super defensively, and use the best helmet you can afford. The tourists are a problem. Not just the Chinese. When I was on Samui, there were a lot of Europeans who had little experience riding, and had no idea what the rules were, what was safe and not safe, and just simply were way too casual, on what were the most dangerous roads on the planet, with the highest fatality rate per capita, than any other 500 sq. km. on earth! They did not have a clue. Sometimes I would pull over and say, do you have any idea who many tourists are sent home in body bags from this island, by driving exactly how you are driving? They were shocked. They had no idea stopping in a lane of traffic, on a very busy road, where people were driving very aggressively, was being careless, or was dangerous.

Best advice is to drive slower than you have to, keep your eyes glued to the road, maintain superior frontal, and rear road awareness, and always check in all directions, as often as possible. Never be casual on a bike in this country. Never.

I often remind myself, why did you move to this country? Well, one of the reasons is so that I would not have to race around like a madman. So, I tend to really take my time while driving. So I lose a few minutes. It really does not mean anything, and I am a lot safer as a result.

I agree its not just the Chinese, I see more young westerners riding rental bikes who make dangerous maneuvers or stop in the fast lane trying to make a turn. Many of the young folks who rent bikes have never driven one before, I use to walk past a bike rental everyday, I would see these young tourist riding off wiggling left and right as they have never driven a bike. But at least most westerners have some common sense and do try to watch out for traffic.

[T_Dog]

I've had to help friends at the very busy orthopedic ward and emergency room at Maharaj a few times after serious accidents. None of my friends ever saw it coming.... Sudden car U turn, car coming out of a soi without stopping, and the deadly sweep where a click crosses three lanes to do a u turn. I certainly had some close calls when I was in living Thailand but those hospital visits were sobering reminders that the roads are the most dangerous in the world. Motorcycling in Thailand is indeed fantastic, but it comes with a huge risk.

[FolkGuitar]

We've just returned from a four-day 1,600km bike ride around the north-east. Almost got blown off the road several times by cars (and trucks) passing other trucks. Several even flashed their lights at us as they pulled into our lane to pass, forcing us onto the shoulder of the road. They saw us coming, didn't give a damn and were determined to pass anyway. We were just lucky that there WAS a shoulder to squeeze on to! And in 1,600km, we never once saw a policeman on the road, except for check points.

[ozyjon]

That's why i ride a bi cycle, velly slo

[spidermike007]

All the more reason to drive super defensively, and use the best helmet you can afford. The tourists are a problem. Not just the Chinese. When I was on Samui, there were a lot of Europeans who had little experience riding, and had no idea what the rules were, what was safe and not safe, and just simply were way too casual, on what were the most dangerous roads on the planet, with the highest fatality rate per capita, than any other 500 sq. km. on earth! They did not have a clue. Sometimes I would pull over and say, do you have any idea who many tourists are sent home in body bags from this island, by driving exactly how you are driving? They were shocked. They had no idea stopping in a lane of traffic, on a very busy road, where people were driving very aggressively, was being careless, or was dangerous.

Best advice is to drive slower than you have to, keep your eyes glued to the road, maintain superior frontal, and rear road awareness, and always check in all directions, as often as possible. Never be casual on a bike in this country. Never.

I often remind myself, why did you move to this country? Well, one of the reasons is so that I would not have to race around like a madman. So, I tend to really take my time while driving. So I lose a few minutes. It really does not mean anything, and I am a lot safer as a result.

I agree its not just the Chinese, I see more young westerners riding rental bikes who make dangerous maneuvers or stop in the fast lane trying to make a turn. Many of the young folks who rent bikes have never driven one before, I use to walk past a bike rental everyday, I would see these young tourist riding off wiggling left and right as they have never driven a bike. But at least most westerners have some common sense and do try to watch out for traffic.

Very true. I think a lot of people come here and say to themselves, "Thailand is a very relaxed place, the people are so cool and respectful, how hard to it be to drive here? Granted I do not know how to ride a motorbike, but what better place to learn. And the bikes are so cheap, so why not?".

It is a very dangerous line of reasoning, and could lead to immediate death, or terrible injury. I always advise visitors who have little experience with bikes, to NOT rent them here. This place is not a driving ground. It is not a good place to learn to ride a motorbike! It may be the worst place in the world to learn to ride, unless of course you were on an enclosed track. And how many of them are available for learning?

[spidermike007]

We've just returned from a four-day 1,600km bike ride around the north-east. Almost got blown off the road several times by cars (and trucks) passing other trucks. Several even flashed their lights at us as they pulled into our lane to pass, forcing us onto the shoulder of the road. They saw us coming, didn't give a damn and were determined to pass anyway. We were just lucky that there WAS a shoulder to squeeze on to! And in 1,600km, we never once saw a policeman on the road, except for check points.

A few points to remember while driving a motorbike on the Thai roads.

1. There are no police. There are no highway patrol. There are men dressed up like cops, but they are not police. They are (RCD (revenue collection department). They have no skills, nor concern for your safety. Never call them, unless you are bleeding out on the road.

2. Larger vehicles consider themselves to have the right of way, over smaller vehicles. Regardless of the situation. It is survival of the fittest out there, and the cars, trucks, pickups, and buses are larger, heavier, and considered fitter than motorcycles. It is not about courtesy. Do not expect nor demand that. It is about your ability to survive these monsters of the road.

3. Other vehicles when passing, will not use good judgment, and will not practice safe driving. They will use only their hormones to make traffic related decisions. They will not consult their common sense, reason, nor their better judgment. They will not consider the safety of their family, their ability to continue to support their family, the value of their vehicle, your life, your limb, your property, your rights, or your interests. They will rarely exercise their intellect, when making a traffic decision. They will allow the smallest of margins, and will pass on blind curves, on mountainous roads, and will just presume it is a maneuver they can survive. If other oncoming traffic gets in the way, they are expected to pull over, or get off the road entirely. Do not expect them to use past experience, where they had really close calls, and their families were almost killed, as a reference of any sort for the future. If others crash, it does not really matter. He has somewhere to go, and that is what is important.

4. If the tarmac on the fast lane is in better condition, expect the slower driver to hog that lane. Do not expect nor anticipate that he will respond to your bright lights flashing, nor your horn, nor the fact that you are right behind him, trying to pass. You are not of importance. The primary aspect is that he has good pavement to drive on.

5. Never, ever, ever expect the police or the nearly non existent highway patrol, to patrol the highways, pull over a driver who is causing danger to others, who may be drunk, incompetent, speeding, driving recklessly, or casing mayhem.

6. Expect that the only time you will see the police or the army is at a road block, which delays your trip by anywhere from 5 to 30 minutes, with a road block that accomplishes very questionable objectives, and does nothing to increase your safety on the road. You may also expect to see the police occasionally if it is convenient for them to demand a payoff from you.

[WaiLai]

Interesting comments about drivers in general.

Got me thinking about 3 years of driving scooter and motocy in Taiwan(scooter capital of the world) as well as 1 year in Cambodia.

I'll try not to generalize too much but basically the Taiwanese are a more educated, aspiring and motivated people. With the emphasis on education and social etiquette they develop a particular "attitude" largely founded on respect. Roadways are safer, neighbourhoods safer and cleaner etc;

In Cambodia (which until I moved to Thailand, thought was the most dangerous country in the world), the problem wasn't as much the drivers as it was the rickety old vehicles and the poor quality roadways.

The "attitude" of mainland Chinese and Thais is a far cry from that of the Taiwanese (and also the Cambodians).

There's no need to go into details about the social milieu from which the first 2 groups are raised in. It unfortunately leads to a "me-first" and socially irresponsible "attitude".

I learned to swear in Chinese years ago and I can tell you that it is an easy and worthwhile skill set.

Useful on the roads and at the restaurants.

Try it out and remember to smile immediately.

Edited January 13, 2016 by WaiLai

[Mansell]

After riding my Kawasaki over 70 percent of this country I came to the conclusion that the main Rule of the Road here is, "It is your job to avoid me." Also I think that the Cambodians are much worse than Thais, they seem to have left their brains at home period. Phuket is pretty awful, but once off the island it is nice riding. If you are off main roads and riding secondary roads the dogs are the biggest danger. Main road dogs are used to traffic, but the village dogs just wander across without listening or looking. Hit one with my right foot around 50mph and thought I had broken my foot, and I have very loud air horns which they ignore, but it does help stop the U turn folks in car or bike who think you are a scooter and not going as fast. Saved me quite a few times. Ride safely out there.

[chilli42]

There have been surprisingly few major road mishaps involving Chinese.

[NoshowJones]

All the more reason to drive super defensively, and use the best helmet you can afford. The tourists are a problem. Not just the Chinese. When I was on Samui, there were a lot of Europeans who had little experience riding, and had no idea what the rules were, what was safe and not safe, and just simply were way too casual, on what were the most dangerous roads on the planet, with the highest fatality rate per capita, than any other 500 sq. km. on earth! They did not have a clue. Sometimes I would pull over and say, do you have any idea who many tourists are sent home in body bags from this island, by driving exactly how you are driving? They were shocked. They had no idea stopping in a lane of traffic, on a very busy road, where people were driving very aggressively, was being careless, or was dangerous.

Best advice is to drive slower than you have to, keep your eyes glued to the road, maintain superior frontal, and rear road awareness, and always check in all directions, as often as possible. Never be casual on a bike in this country. Never.

I often remind myself, why did you move to this country? Well, one of the reasons is so that I would not have to race around like a madman. So, I tend to really take my time while driving. So I lose a few minutes. It really does not mean anything, and I am a lot safer as a result.

I keep saying this, and I'll say it again, when riding a motorbike, forget the rules and laws, they are made by Thais, whos road sense is well documented.

Use genuine common sense at all times, never break the speed limit, always be aware of what is going on around you.

On roads with a hard shoulder, decide as you go whether you use the HS or first lane (if there only is one lane) taking road, and traffic conditions etc, into account.

Never obey that stupid rule that motorcycles must always stay in the inside lane, if you want to make a right turn or U turn ahead, get out to the outside lane in plenty of time

as there is no way any Thai drivers will let you out if you leave it too late.

[NoshowJones]

I've had to help friends at the very busy orthopedic ward and emergency room at Maharaj a few times after serious accidents. None of my friends ever saw it coming.... Sudden car U turn, car coming out of a soi without stopping, and the deadly sweep where a click crosses three lanes to do a u turn. I certainly had some close calls when I was in living Thailand but those hospital visits were sobering reminders that the roads are the most dangerous in the world. Motorcycling in Thailand is indeed fantastic, but it comes with a huge risk.

You can keep safe if you use genuine common sense, and ride defensively at all times.

[Lampang2]

Also a complete head spin for them because if they have ever held a licence and driven they do it on the "wrong side" of the road in China.

For a car, the adjustment from left hand to right hand drive, on unfamiliar roads is a recipe for disaster

Maybe wrong side is majority of the world.

Could be...

[hyperHowie]

ON CHINESE DRIVERS:

Perhaps many of you have had much more experience in China than I, but I'll pitch in anyway.

My experience of riding for a month around China, next to the father of a boy I mentor in the US, was amazing. Buses and trucks merging together with us caught in the middle and observing the results of half dozen accidents during the first 30 min on a major new highway out of Shantou.

However, two other things also stood out: He had a mounted video camera to prove he wasn't at fault when collisions occurred. I saw quite a few of those & knew why.

Second, I had read that the average driving experience for most Chinese was 5 yrs. No wonder they don't have basic skills. In fact, the Chinese father was a professor, yet his 25 yo son didn't know how to drive until I taught him in the US. My elementary school brother had more driving intuition than the Chinese 25 yo (although the cops did catch my brother's maiden voyage as a 10 yo.) Chinese just haven't had the opportunity to familiarize themselves with cars compared to many of us farangs who often grew up with multuple cars in our families.

Lastly, I came across several school groups, lots of bright college kids & businessmen in China, as well as multiple Chinese tour groups in my native land, who did not speak a word of English (HK might be a very different story.) The dearth of that skill is perhaps greater than I've experienced in other countries I've visited or lived (not that the world has to learn our language.) So SHOUTING in English, other than making you feel better, simply will draw a lot of blank stares. But driving skills & English language will increase with Chinese tourists, but not until the younger Chinese generation starts visiting Thailand.

Old Asia hands: Feel free to correct any misperceptions

[smotherb]

Also a complete head spin for them because if they have ever held a licence and driven they do it on the "wrong side" of the road in China.

For a car, the adjustment from left hand to right hand drive, on unfamiliar roads is a recipe for disaster

In China, as in most of the world, they drive on the RIGHT side of the road.

[smotherb]

Also a complete head spin for them because if they have ever held a licence and driven they do it on the "wrong side" of the road in China.

For a car, the adjustment from left hand to right hand drive, on unfamiliar roads is a recipe for disaster

In China, as in most of the world, they drive on the RIGHT side of the road.

[UTH001]

I heard from a CM native girl that Chinese rents bikes as that's the cheapest possible way to get around.

If I remember the numbers

100 or 200 baht daily rental rate.

60 Baht gas / day

That girl is surely mistaken? Remember that TAT announcement that Chinese tourists spend THB 5,500 a day while in Thailand (US$160 at the time of the announcement), more than European visitors? Maybe, they spend most of that money in restaurants or in shops...