U.S. father fatally shoots son mistaken for intruder

[mopar71]

Its not only the fact that a lot of people have guns its also the mentality and the culture of such hostility and fear.. "Oh some one is in the basement probably trying to steal a few of my belongings I better end his life"

In another country the first impulse would perhaps be to call the police and run over to a neighbour.

"Mentality and the culture of such hostility and fear"? Sorry, in big cities like Cincinnati there is real crime and it is completely plausible that someone would break into a house to steal or worse. It's ridiculous to assume that the choice was defend yourself or simply let them steal something...because you can't predict what the criminal(s) in the basement wants, will be satisfied with or to what extent they will to get it.

In another country - the first impulse is to run because people are defenseless. Just like the first impulse is to stand by and do nothing when one of your soldiers is run down in the middle of the street then hacked to death by two men with machetes. I'm sure they all called the police so why didn't the police stop it? Where were the police in Paris? Where were the police in Cologne? As the saying goes, "When seconds count, the police are minutes away".

And for the posters here who want to take this tragedy and say stupid things like "wingnuts will say the kid should have been armed too"...that's just sad.

[neverdie]

What's the use in defending a tragic incident like this?

One could give a "what if" story such as, what if the intruder had been a 19 year old thug with his own gun ready to shoot anybody that resisted him.

Sadly it wasn't and if it had been you would never have read about it here.

So what's the use. You critics are going to criticize regardless and since the vast majority of you are not Americans, nobody really cares what your opinions are anyway.

Keep tilting at windmills all you want. Just don't expect it to do any good.

Keep slaughtering your children in the name of some irrelevant nonsense in your constitution.

It seems to be some form of homegrown terrorism you seem to enjoy inflicting onto yourselves.

The rest of the world is perplexed by your apparent indifference to all the suffering that's ongoing there.

Your gun culture is just as bad, if not worse than Thailand's road safety culture, yet you get upset when foreigners comment, however you're not shy to criticise yourself.

Crikey.

"Your gun culture is just as bad, if not worse than Thailand's road safety culture, yet you get upset when foreigners comment, however you're not shy to criticise yourself.

What are you talking about?

Most of your post is just boiler plate anti-American gun control rhetoric, but this last part has me perplexed.

How about explaining your very cryptic comment.

It's not written well, my apology.

You were quick to divide people by mentioning most people commenting were not Americans.

So on that basis, I refer to "you" or "your" meaning Americans are quick to comment when something displeases them on someone else's soil. I also meant that you, chuckd are always quick to comment as well.

So why is it the case that folk can't comment on the idiocy that seems to occur in your homeland, at very regular occurrences ?

In summary, Thailand has bad road culture, something which is often pointed out by Americans on this forum and the USA has a very poor firearms culture. Both issues have gone well beyond decent time for correcting the issues.

People will comment about this incident and just because they weren't born on American soil is just about irrelevant don't you think?

[neverdie]

a house alarm system is much cheaper than the life of their son. I feel for the father. He must be devastated. And feel for the son more so.

With these pro gun people, it was probably an event that could of occurred the next day with the son shooting the father in a similar situation, it's just this time the father was the one at home with the gun.

It's one thing to own a firearm, it's another thing to be properly trained and well rehearsed with it.

This would never of happened with someone who had been correctly trained with a firearm, the problem Islamist any crackpot can obtain and carry in the USA and in a society that's wall total.firearms there is bound to be tragedy.

[mopar71]

Nobody suggested the home owner should stand behind a plane of glass, lit up by backlight and call out, but surely AND MOST CERTAINLY in the eyes of the law, he should of identified his target prior to pullinthe bloody trigger <deleted>.

If only he had called out from Inside, 1. He woulda have identified it was his son & 2. If it wasn't his son and was a badman they may have very well done the runner after realising someone was home. BUT he chose to go for the kill and he smoked his very own son. What a fool and not the sort of person that should EVER carry a firearm.

Adios.

I don't know about "in the eyes of the law" but it is certainly common sense to identify your target first. We never know how we would react until put in that situation. We don't know the history of the neighborhood with recent crime, maybe he had good reason to be think someone broke into his house. Whatever the backstory, it ended tragically.

[neverdie]

Nobody suggested the home owner should stand behind a plane of glass, lit up by backlight and call out, but surely AND MOST CERTAINLY in the eyes of the law, he should of identified his target prior to pullinthe bloody trigger <deleted>.

If only he had called out from Inside, 1. He woulda have identified it was his son & 2. If it wasn't his son and was a badman they may have very well done the runner after realising someone was home. BUT he chose to go for the kill and he smoked his very own son. What a fool and not the sort of person that should EVER carry a firearm.

Adios.

I don't know about "in the eyes of the law" but it is certainly common sense to identify your target first. We never know how we would react until put in that situation. We don't know the history of the neighborhood with recent crime, maybe he had good reason to be think someone broke into his house. Whatever the backstory, it ended tragically.

Rest assured, just about anywhere you travel on the planet, the authorities would like you to identify the target you decide to shoot before you pull the trigger. I would also safely assume that in most countries in the world you will be held highly culpable if you fail to do so.

Look at that blade runner dude in South Africa, he was firing through doors, what a fool and had this father just take a brief moment before getting all trigger happy, then his son would still be living and breathing.

I realise you understand, but some do not, apparently. 555555

[neverdie]

Does the webfact

Admin / News Producer j

ever post anything positive about any country or happening? I only recall negative things from him.

The world is not totally in the shi.ter.

Yes he does and does often, however you may have noticed that bad news sells papers.

If you don't want to read webfacts work, don't. He won't kick your door down and force you, he's not the type!

[sirineou]

Its not only the fact that a lot of people have guns its also the mentality and the culture of such hostility and fear.. "Oh some one is in the basement probably trying to steal a few of my belongings I better end his life"

In another country the first impulse would perhaps be to call the police and run over to a neighbour.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

That is why an airplane pilot crashed behind enemy lines, has a better chance of surviving with out his side arm.

with out a gun you are in a defensive posture, hide ans evade,until such time as extraction, with a gun you confront and defend.

With a gun in your house, the prudent thing to do is to ask, whose there? you would not want to shoot your son, on the other hand the intruder knows who is there, the enemy. The home owner is in the distinct disadvantage of having identified him self and reveal his location, where the intruder has not.

What a load of rot.

You may notice that the Police nearly always announce their arrival and entry into a premises and there's a reason for it (& a reason not to do it I some situations).

Nobody suggested the home owner should stand behind a plane of glass, lit up by backlight and call out, but surely AND MOST CERTAINLY in the eyes of the law, he should of identified his target prior to pullinthe bloody trigger <deleted>.

If only he had called out from Inside, 1. He woulda have identified it was his son & 2. If it wasn't his son and was a badman they may have very well done the runner after realising someone was home. BUT he chose to go for the kill and he smoked his very own son. What a fool and not the sort of person that should EVER carry a firearm.

Adios.

Of course the police would announce themselves, what did I say that would suggest otherwise.? anyone other than the bad guy would.

I dont understand your response

I think you misunderstand what I said

I am sure you would not disagree that with out a gun you are in a defensive posture and with a gun you are not

and I am sure you agree that you would need ask who is there before you shoot but the bad guy would nor putting you at a disadvantage

I am sure that the intruder does not need to ask who is there, he knows who is there.who is there is the home owner

so as I said I dont understand your response.

[mopar71]

Tragic accidental shooting of son by father? Time to change the Constitution and take guns from tens of millions law-abiding citizens.

Pre-planned terrorist attack invoking Islam? Deny Islam had anything to do with it, blame guns, change the Constitution and disarm law-abiding citizens so they are unable to defend themselves so that the next terror attack on American soil will resemble Paris, Norway or a Tunisian beach full of tourists.

At least liberals are consistent...take away Constitutionally guaranteed rights, turn every city into another Chicago or Detroit while enabling criminals and Muslim extremists...

Is the Left Even on America’s Side Anymore?

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/429423/left-betrayal-america?iM1rwZkgV5PLVEcG.01

The kid was muslim maybe?

Look at the stats mate : USA is clearly much less safer than France or Norway and even Tunisian

The USA is probably much safer than or just as safe as France or the UK these days, certainly Tunisia. Norway has begun deporting people so it is safer. If you break into someone's house in the USA, no, you aren't safer. Walking down the street of the wrong neighborhood in New York, Paris or London is a tough choice. I think all of us would feel safer in a bad neighborhood in our own country that a foreign one. At least we stand a chance of talking our way out of trouble. Well, in Paris I guess you'd need to know Arabic.

[Kaalle]

Its not only the fact that a lot of people have guns its also the mentality and the culture of such hostility and fear.. "Oh some one is in the basement probably trying to steal a few of my belongings I better end his life"

In another country the first impulse would perhaps be to call the police and run over to a neighbour.

"Mentality and the culture of such hostility and fear"? Sorry, in big cities like Cincinnati there is real crime and it is completely plausible that someone would break into a house to steal or worse. It's ridiculous to assume that the choice was defend yourself or simply let them steal something...because you can't predict what the criminal(s) in the basement wants, will be satisfied with or to what extent they will to get it.

In another country - the first impulse is to run because people are defenseless. Just like the first impulse is to stand by and do nothing when one of your soldiers is run down in the middle of the street then hacked to death by two men with machetes. I'm sure they all called the police so why didn't the police stop it? Where were the police in Paris? Where were the police in Cologne? As the saying goes, "When seconds count, the police are minutes away".

And for the posters here who want to take this tragedy and say stupid things like "wingnuts will say the kid should have been armed too"...that's just sad.

Well the whole premise is to have a society where citizens don't shoot other citizens. And this is where opinions differ. In good ol' Murica you have a 200 something year old paper that you for some reason view as an incorruptible and holy sacrament and there is this notion that independence and freedom pertains foremost to the right to use deadly force which is quite laughable.

Agree to disagree yeah...

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[neverdie]

Its not only the fact that a lot of people have guns its also the mentality and the culture of such hostility and fear.. "Oh some one is in the basement probably trying to steal a few of my belongings I better end his life"

In another country the first impulse would perhaps be to call the police and run over to a neighbour.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

That is why an airplane pilot crashed behind enemy lines, has a better chance of surviving with out his side arm.

with out a gun you are in a defensive posture, hide ans evade,until such time as extraction, with a gun you confront and defend.

With a gun in your house, the prudent thing to do is to ask, whose there? you would not want to shoot your son, on the other hand the intruder knows who is there, the enemy. The home owner is in the distinct disadvantage of having identified him self and reveal his location, where the intruder has not.

What a load of rot.

You may notice that the Police nearly always announce their arrival and entry into a premises and there's a reason for it (& a reason not to do it I some situations).

Nobody suggested the home owner should stand behind a plane of glass, lit up by backlight and call out, but surely AND MOST CERTAINLY in the eyes of the law, he should of identified his target prior to pullinthe bloody trigger <deleted>.

If only he had called out from Inside, 1. He woulda have identified it was his son & 2. If it wasn't his son and was a badman they may have very well done the runner after realising someone was home. BUT he chose to go for the kill and he smoked his very own son. What a fool and not the sort of person that should EVER carry a firearm.

Adios.

Of course the police would announce themselves, what did I say that would suggest otherwise.? anyone other than the bad guy would.

I dont understand your response

I think you misunderstand what I said

I am sure you would not disagree that with out a gun you are in a defensive posture and with a gun you are not

and I am sure you agree that you would need ask who is there before you shoot but the bad guy would nor putting you at a disadvantage

I am sure that the intruder does not need to ask who is there, he knows who is there.who is there is the home owner

so as I said I dont understand your response.

My apology, after re-reading your post I realise I misread what you wrote.

Disregard, I'm losing the plot. Time to hand my shooter in, I think

[mopar71]

For all you non-Americans and Americans from non-gun cities...

I once wrote to a European friend that even though I have never owned a gun, I grew up in a part of the USA where guns were common and that I had probably seen more guns hanging on the back of pickup truck windows that this friend of mine had seen in his entire life. So I don't think of gun owners as "crazies!" and guns do not scare me.

He wrote back that his opinion of guns is formed from news reports.

Well, that explained a lot.

I guess if guns were not common place where I grew up and these news reports were my main source of news on guns I would probably be very anti-gun too. But I didn't, so I'm not.

[sirineou]

Tragic accidental shooting of son by father? Time to change the Constitution and take guns from tens of millions law-abiding citizens.

Pre-planned terrorist attack invoking Islam? Deny Islam had anything to do with it, blame guns, change the Constitution and disarm law-abiding citizens so they are unable to defend themselves so that the next terror attack on American soil will resemble Paris, Norway or a Tunisian beach full of tourists.

At least liberals are consistent...take away Constitutionally guaranteed rights, turn every city into another Chicago or Detroit while enabling criminals and Muslim extremists...

Is the Left Even on America’s Side Anymore?

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/429423/left-betrayal-america?iM1rwZkgV5PLVEcG.01

The kid was muslim maybe?

Look at the stats mate : USA is clearly much less safer than France or Norway and even Tunisian

The USA is probably much safer than or just as safe as France or the UK these days, certainly Tunisia. Norway has begun deporting people so it is safer. If you break into someone's house in the USA, no, you aren't safer. Walking down the street of the wrong neighborhood in New York, Paris or London is a tough choice. I think all of us would feel safer in a bad neighborhood in our own country that a foreign one. At least we stand a chance of talking our way out of trouble. Well, in Paris I guess you'd need to know Arabic.

people who say the US is not safe are people who do not understand the US

Which US are they talking about. LA, Alabama , NY, West Virginia? etc etc

Taking aggregate statistics concerning the US is always a mistake, The US is a large diverse country with a lot of different populations that skew the statistics.

[MaeJoMTB]

In my family we shout 'Hello, I'm home' when we enter the place.

The kid shouldn't have skipped school, shouldn't be sneaking around the house.

The father should have identified his target before shooting.

Whatever way you look at it, it's a tragic accident.

[sirineou]

That is why an airplane pilot crashed behind enemy lines, has a better chance of surviving with out his side arm.

with out a gun you are in a defensive posture, hide ans evade,until such time as extraction, with a gun you confront and defend.

With a gun in your house, the prudent thing to do is to ask, whose there? you would not want to shoot your son, on the other hand the intruder knows who is there, the enemy. The home owner is in the distinct disadvantage of having identified him self and reveal his location, where the intruder has not.

What a load of rot.

You may notice that the Police nearly always announce their arrival and entry into a premises and there's a reason for it (& a reason not to do it I some situations).

Nobody suggested the home owner should stand behind a plane of glass, lit up by backlight and call out, but surely AND MOST CERTAINLY in the eyes of the law, he should of identified his target prior to pullinthe bloody trigger <deleted>.

If only he had called out from Inside, 1. He woulda have identified it was his son & 2. If it wasn't his son and was a badman they may have very well done the runner after realising someone was home. BUT he chose to go for the kill and he smoked his very own son. What a fool and not the sort of person that should EVER carry a firearm.

Adios.

Of course the police would announce themselves, what did I say that would suggest otherwise.? anyone other than the bad guy would.

I dont understand your response

I think you misunderstand what I said

I am sure you would not disagree that with out a gun you are in a defensive posture and with a gun you are not

and I am sure you agree that you would need ask who is there before you shoot but the bad guy would nor putting you at a disadvantage

I am sure that the intruder does not need to ask who is there, he knows who is there.who is there is the home owner

so as I said I dont understand your response.

My apology, after re-reading your post I realise I misread what you wrote.

Disregard, I'm losing the plot. Time to hand my shooter in, I think

No need to apologize or hung your shooter, We need your shooter in the fight against evil

Cheers

[Kaalle]

Amazing...

"The kid shouldn't have skipped school"

If the next news report is about a rape are you gonna write "the victim shouldn't have worn a short dress"?

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[THAILIBAN]

yeah, the US even needs more GUNS GUNS GUNS to make it an even safer place than it already is...... how SICK !!! Obama got that right..... no guns, no shootings. It is as simple as that (and most civilized countries in Europe where guns r near to non-existent in public are living prove of that)

[Kaalle]

yeah, the US even needs more GUNS GUNS GUNS to make it an even safer place than it already is...... how SICK !!! Obama got that right..... no guns, no shootings. It is as simple as that (and most civilized countries in Europe where guns r near to non-existent in public are living prove of that)

Yeah but what about if a family on their way home from church gets attacked by muuuslims? If they dont have at least an assault rifle each they gonna get slaughtered by those savages. You have to defend yourself, its just like the movie Mad Max! Except with muuslims and hispanics and black gangbangers, oh and potsmokers too, with the munchies!

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[Rimmer]

Flame removed

[Fookhaht]

NEWS BREAK #1

In a fatal accident, father backs over his toddler in the driveway in Hi-So City, Maryland.

Investigation results: Father seldom checked his mirrors when backing up, and mother failed to adequately monitor the child's whereabouts.



NEWS BREAK #2

Hi-So City council bans car ownership by all parents who have children under five years old.

------------------------------------------------------
(Source: Equivalent of Not the Nation/Onions)

******************************************

Not making light of the gun tragedy, but attempting to expose the hysterical and illogical conclusions drawn by well-meaning people, and by politicians who are always looking to impress their constituents.

Edited January 13, 2016 by Fookhaht

[kotsak]

Another take on the gun issue:

Edited January 13, 2016 by kotsak

[GeorgesAbitbol]

Tragic accidental shooting of son by father? Time to change the Constitution and take guns from tens of millions law-abiding citizens.

Pre-planned terrorist attack invoking Islam? Deny Islam had anything to do with it, blame guns, change the Constitution and disarm law-abiding citizens so they are unable to defend themselves so that the next terror attack on American soil will resemble Paris, Norway or a Tunisian beach full of tourists.

At least liberals are consistent...take away Constitutionally guaranteed rights, turn every city into another Chicago or Detroit while enabling criminals and Muslim extremists...

Is the Left Even on America’s Side Anymore?

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/429423/left-betrayal-america?iM1rwZkgV5PLVEcG.01

The kid was muslim maybe?

Look at the stats mate : USA is clearly much less safer than France or Norway and even Tunisian

The USA is probably much safer than or just as safe as France or the UK these days, certainly Tunisia. Norway has begun deporting people so it is safer. If you break into someone's house in the USA, no, you aren't safer. Walking down the street of the wrong neighborhood in New York, Paris or London is a tough choice. I think all of us would feel safer in a bad neighborhood in our own country that a foreign one. At least we stand a chance of talking our way out of trouble. Well, in Paris I guess you'd need to know Arabic.

Lol...USA as safe as Europe?

Please look at the stats, crime rate, news...You re blind or live under a rock.

Well I guess in USA you need to speak Spanish, does this bother you? It bothers Trump for sure.

You probably don't know neither the History of Arabic people in France, most of them speak french, because most of them come from colonies the France had...

France vs USA

numbers don't lie

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/France/United-States/Crime

Edited January 13, 2016 by GeorgesAbitbol

[GeorgesAbitbol]

Tragic miscommunication.

I still favor the 2nd amendment with no restrictions.

Do you have a gun with you here?

If not, and probably not, you must live in fear....

[nottocus]

Play with guns and u kill people.

[HooHaa]

Karma?

for father or son?

[samran]

The ability to shoot one's child dead in one's home is clearly linked the concept of freedom from the tyranny of government.

Previously, I was of the mistaken belief that free speech and elections were......

[Fookhaht]

Play with guns and u kill people.

Drive cars like idiots and u kill people.

Serve pa-ra on your son-tam and u kill people.

Sell alcohol and cigarettes and u kill people.

Clever Idea: Why not just ban the whole lot? http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/886144-us-father-fatally-shoots-son-mistaken-for-intruder/?p=10303837

Edited January 13, 2016 by Fookhaht

[Kaalle]

Great line of reasoning. A car is for transportation. What are the uses for guns?

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[Fookhaht]

Great line of reasoning. A car is for transportation. What are the uses for guns?

#1: Protection of human life and

#2: Hunting for food

#1

I have personally saved the life of a fellow human being who was being beaten to death, by shooting a shotgun over the heads of low-life thugs on my property. They ran off, peeing their pants, while we got an aid car for the near-dead victim.

For every murder or tragic accident, we probably could collect a much higher stack of life-saving anecdotes because a policeman or citizen was armed. Even the old U.K. came to its senses regarding its formerly unarmed police force. The evil in the world demands a stronger opposing force.

On a larger scale, but with the same reasoning: good thing the USA finally armed itself halfway through WWII, after finally realizing you don't kow-tow to armed bullies.

#2

I have been in areas of the world where the main sustenance came from hunting for food with arms. Take that away by a total ban, and you would have entire societies unable to support themselves. By the way, I am not into hunting for sport. I lived for a summer in Alaska with families whose sole sustenance was what they could get from the sea and forest. I see that as legitimate.

Edited January 13, 2016 by Fookhaht

[GeorgesAbitbol]

Play with guns and u kill people.

Drive cars like idiots and u kill people.

Serve pa-ra on your son-tam and u kill people.

Sell alcohol and cigarettes and u kill people.

Clever Idea: Why not just ban the whole lot? http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/886144-us-father-fatally-shoots-son-mistaken-for-intruder/?p=10303837

I can drive like a f1 racer, but because some morons cannot drive fast I have to follow the regulations.

I can take drugs like a champion, but because some morons can't I cannot buy them in shops.

In USA Kinder chocolate are forbiddent because some kids swallow them and shock, so all the kids cannot buy them.

In USA you cannot eat raw milk cheese, because "it is not safe"

You cannot drink before majority, but you can buy a rifle for your 12yrs old kid.....

You cannot have an abortion before medical check, discussion with a shrink, face the bigots raw of shame...but you can buy guns in Wallmart.

Smoking law is harsher than gun selling

Oh and do not forget the main thing : guns are designed to kill or aim...nothing else, not to open beers...

Cars are not designed to kill

[GeorgesAbitbol]

Great line of reasoning. A car is for transportation. What are the uses for guns?

Protection of human life.

I have personally saved the life of a fellow human being who was being beaten to death, by shooting a shotgun over the heads of low-life thugs on my property. They ran off, peeing their pants, while we got an aid car for the near-dead victim.

For every murder or tragic accident, we probably could collect a much higher stack of life-saving anecdotes because a policeman or citizen was armed. Even the old U.K. came to its senses regarding its formerly unarmed police force. The evil in the world demands a stronger opposing force.

On a larger scale, but with the same reasoning: good thing the USA finally armed itself halfway through WWII, after finally realizing you don't kow-tow to armed bullies.

For every murder or tragic accident, we probably could collect a much higher stack of life-saving anecdotes because a policeman or citizen was armed.

Probably not, otherwise the NRA would have created a website only for this