Thailand's 'Tiger Temple' to give up big cats, activist says

[facthailand]

Honestly, people! Our family has often foreign guests to the Tiger Temple. The animals are obviously well cared for and they have lots of area in beautiful natural surroundings.

They're not being slowly killed for their bile, slaughtered for skin & bones. The tigers have become acclimated to people so I doubt they could survive in the wild.

Really, what do you care how the wat makes its money? It's clean money, despite farang bleeding hearts.

[Fairynuff]

Isn't a temple supposed to be place to practice Buddhism and not a place to mistreat and keep animals captive? Every country has its traps for idiot tourists but they're not usually religious places. ( I won't mention £17 entry to St Pauls in London)

[roo860]

Honestly, people! Our family has often foreign guests to the Tiger Temple. The animals are obviously well cared for and they have lots of area in beautiful natural surroundings.

They're not being slowly killed for their bile, slaughtered for skin & bones. The tigers have become acclimated to people so I doubt they could survive in the wild.

Really, what do you care how the wat makes its money? It's clean money, despite farang bleeding hearts.

They ever seen one running, acting like tigers do?

[facthailand]

Great news. It was all about money anyway....

Surprise surprise....

Only difference now is that the government and not the monks will be pocketing the money from the tourists taking pictures with tigers at Damnoen Saduak Tiger Zoo.

Legally, the tigers belong to the government anyway.

Legally, I believe all wildlife is Crown property, not govt's, and certainly not the military!

[facthailand]

I believe the tigers are better cared for, with less corruption, at the wat, than in any local facility.

[khaowong1]

I have never been to this temple, but looking how most animals are treated in Thailand, I have my doubts about their well treatment. I'm not saying they are treated badly, just probably not treated as good as we would like to see them treated.

[callaway]

They keep stalling as every week is more pocket money. They are certainly not doing for the love of the tigers but the love of the baht.

[farcanell]

What is it with these so called Monks - who is protecting them ?

I would guess that it is not amulets protecting them but the good old Baht.

Yet another example of the hypocrisy of religion.

Their mantra is to live without material things and wealth, yet every week you here of the greed of their leaders.

Across the board, every religion is BS. Can't believe so many still fall for their BS in this day and age.

And you would have noticed, no doubt, that they all have the latest iPhones etc... Getting a little OT

Also, in saying " every religion" you are no doubt also referring to the fact that the Catholic Church is one of the wealthiest organizations in the world, which I reckon most people "ignore"... Think of the "good" that the church could do with that wealth... Sickening that it doesn't.

But some people just need to believe in something other than self determination... Which I can't figure out... I can understand the uneducated needing to have a faith, but an educated person... It Simply makes no sense, It's all about power... It's always been about power.

Whatever... With the way that Thai society operates, I doubt that the Tigers will be any better off. If there's a profit angle, it will be exploited, as I really can't see Thailand building any world class zoo type enclosures to protect both the Tigers and the people, which is what's really needed

[cumgranosalum]

Honestly, people! Our family has often foreign guests to the Tiger Temple. The animals are obviously well cared for and they have lots of area in beautiful natural surroundings.

They're not being slowly killed for their bile, slaughtered for skin & bones. The tigers have become acclimated to people so I doubt they could survive in the wild.

Really, what do you care how the wat makes its money? It's clean money, despite farang bleeding hearts.

I makes me sad when people feel they can comment on the temple when they clearly know nothing of the issues involved - you have chosen to ignore the main issues about the Temple - the continuing illegal (unrecorded)breeding of animals, the trading of endangered species, the improper diet etc. ...and you seem to think too that by spending a few hours at the place you are able to accurately assess the state of the tigers. Are you aware of behavioural patterns of caed animals, their diet (you have monitored that?) hae you measured the cages and the amount of time tigers spend there when not on display....quite frankly it looks to me as if you post is based largely on supposition rather than any knowledge of the situation surrounding the temple. This is further made clear by your statement " I doubt they could survive in the wild." - anyone who knows anything at all about the temple is PERFECTLY aware that this is not an option....you also seem unaware of tyhe damage that could result if just one HYBRID tiger were to get out into the wild.

[cumgranosalum]

fference now is that the government and not the monks will be pocketing the money from the tourists taking pictures with tigers at Damnoen Saduak Tiger Zoo.

Legally, the tigers belong to the government anyway.

Legally, I believe all wildlife is Crown property, not govt's, and certainly not the military!

Not relevant - there was a court case a few years back and the tigers became the responsibility of the authorities...they were "taken away" from the temple but then of course there was nowhere to put them so the temple was allowed to keep possession....unfortunately they continued to breed exponentially.

As for "wildlife" as just about all the animals were bred at the temple, do they actually qualify as wildlife?

[cumgranosalum]

Honestly, people! Our family has often foreign guests to the Tiger Temple. The animals are obviously well cared for and they have lots of area in beautiful natural surroundings.

They're not being slowly killed for their bile, slaughtered for skin & bones. The tigers have become acclimated to people so I doubt they could survive in the wild.

Really, what do you care how the wat makes its money? It's clean money, despite farang bleeding hearts.

They ever seen one running, acting like tigers do?

So how much time do you think a tiger spends running?????

[Skywalker69]

Please don't sell them to Khun Ploprasop.

[cookee68]

Who is running this country, the government, or the so called freak monks

[Doc46]

Who is in Charge Here ? The Pissweak Law or the Magic Monks? What a laugh this is Soooo stupid.

[roo860]

Honestly, people! Our family has often foreign guests to the Tiger Temple. The animals are obviously well cared for and they have lots of area in beautiful natural surroundings.

They're not being slowly killed for their bile, slaughtered for skin & bones. The tigers have become acclimated to people so I doubt they could survive in the wild.

Really, what do you care how the wat makes its money? It's clean money, despite farang bleeding hearts.

They ever seen one running, acting like tigers do?

So how much time do you think a tiger spends running?????

Ok put it this way, tigers lying around looking like stuffed dummys, is that how tigers behave.

,

[craigt3365]

I believe the tigers are better cared for, with less corruption, at the wat, than in any local facility.

The problem is all the corruption going on at the wat. Trading in tigers, tiger parts, potential drugging of the animals, dodgy breeding programs, etc.

It needs to be shut down, or setup like a proper zoo with real zoologists. Not amateurs making big money off them.

A very good read:

http://www.careforthewild.com/what-we-do/campaigns/previous-campaigns/tiger-temple-the-truth/

http://bigcatrescue.org/thailands-tiger-temple-sues-conservationists-over-abuse-allegations/

Hundreds of foreign tourists daily visit the Tiger Temple to see and take pictures with the tigers. It is a lucrative business. The entrance fee is 500 baht (US$15) per person while making “special photos” costs 1,000 baht (US$30) extra. For a morning experience, people pay 4,500 baht (US$120) per person to feed the cubs and watch the cub exercise session.

[Daryle]

These Tigers are junkies, so whoever gets them will need a stockpile of drugs to keep them happy.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cumgranosalum]

Honestly, people! Our family has often foreign guests to the Tiger Temple. The animals are obviously well cared for and they have lots of area in beautiful natural surroundings.

They're not being slowly killed for their bile, slaughtered for skin & bones. The tigers have become acclimated to people so I doubt they could survive in the wild.

Really, what do you care how the wat makes its money? It's clean money, despite farang bleeding hearts.

They ever seen one running, acting like tigers do?

So how much time do you think a tiger spends running?????

Ok put it this way, tigers lying around looking like stuffed dummys, is that how tigers behave.

,

i think you need to inform yourself of tiger behaviour before you post.

Tigers are apex predators, unlike lions and other big cats they are solitary hunters most of the time and use there "camouflage" to get within a few meters of prey before making one short final dash. They often stash their food and come back to it....they don't run around making frenzied attacks on anything that moves and they don't spend all their time hunting. in fact like many predators, between preys they reduce their movement to an absolute MINIMUM to conserve energy. Tigers cover large ranges - especially the males, and they will walk around them in a way that uses as little energy as possible. It is often possible to find tiger scat etc on human tracks and paths laid through forests as these offer the tiger the line of least resistance when moving about. when not moving the tigers will rest for long periods of time.

there is a serious problem with those who think they oppose the temple - they don't seem to have the right facts and time and again the allegations of drugging are cited as if fact. the truth is - although plausible - there has never been concrete evidence of this.

The most serious thing about the allegations of drugging is that this kind of "gossip" detracts from the very real and serious shortcomings of the temple - the breeding (even hybrids), that is illegal, the substandard care and conditions, the inappropriate diet, which is in itself evidence of the gross lack of knowledge displayed by the temple, and the massively misleading claims that this temple has any conservation credentials when in fact they are actually harming attempts to conserve the tiger and its ecosystems in Thailand and S. E. Asia..

[monkey4u]

Lets face it the Abbot has thought about all his lost revenue and decided not to throw away his cash cow

[seedy]

one off topic post removed

[cumgranosalum]

Lets face it the Abbot has thought about all his lost revenue and decided not to throw away his cash cow

The abbot has had months to review the destination for these tigers. However as he has been shown to fail in several aspects both regarding the law and the science of keeping tigers, I fail to see why he should be given any say in where the tigers go in the first place.

[cracker1]

So a Monk can tell the chief of Police where to go ?

[Nobb]

If they were not monks who have been gaining a bad rep for drugs , porn and underage sex with men and young girls. This is not acceptable in a land THAT TRULY WANTS TO END ALL PERVERSIONS against people and animals in Thailand.

[roo860]

If they were not monks who have been gaining a bad rep for drugs , porn and underage sex with men and young girls. This is not acceptable in a land THAT TRULY WANTS TO END ALL PERVERSIONS against people and animals in Thailand.

?

[Shawn0001]

there is something unsettling and deeply unpleasant in seeing photos of people posing with these, obviously medicated, animals.

we should know better.

PETA did an undercover study of the temple, the reason they gave for their unusually docile nature was a brutal training regime teaching them to move very slowly. Their study also found widespread health problems such as malnutrition, skeletal deformities and mental disorders. Cages were found to be a mere 6% of the recommended minimum size. Trainers were seen punching, pulling tails and spraying urine in the Tigers faces. Tigers went missing and PETA suggested that the temple may have sold them and also reported that their breeding program has resulted in a mixed breed that could never be released into the wild making rubbish the Temples claims of having conservation intentions. There is plenty to be concerned about at the Tiger temple but it doesn't seem that drugging the tigers is actually one of them.

[cumgranosalum]

there is something unsettling and deeply unpleasant in seeing photos of people posing with these, obviously medicated, animals.

we should know better.

PETA did an undercover study of the temple, the reason they gave for their unusually docile nature was a brutal training regime teaching them to move very slowly. Their study also found widespread health problems such as malnutrition, skeletal deformities and mental disorders. Cages were found to be a mere 6% of the recommended minimum size. Trainers were seen punching, pulling tails and spraying urine in the Tigers faces. Tigers went missing and PETA suggested that the temple may have sold them and also reported that their breeding program has resulted in a mixed breed that could never be released into the wild making rubbish the Temples claims of having conservation intentions. There is plenty to be concerned about at the Tiger temple but it doesn't seem that drugging the tigers is actually one of them.

As far s I'm aware PETA have never done any report on the temple.............Perhaps you are confusing them with the 2007 Care for theWild report, which initially was carried out in cooperation with Sybil Foxcroft (CEE4life)? If not I'd really like to see the report, so perhaps the web address?

I think if you read the CEE4life report you will see that all the issues you raise are covered by their report which covers a period from about the year 2000.

The problems you cite have always been the main concerns with the temple, diet which can lead to various health problems, the illegal breeding which has created hybrids and almost certainly leads to interbreeding as well.

The amateurish handling is symptomatic of an establishment that ignores modern animal husbandry methods.

and the missing tigers; probably the most serious of the allegations, that of trading in Tigers or their carcasses, are dealt with in great detail by the CEE4life report - you should really familiarise yourself with that.

As for the allegations of drugging, CEE$life has shown how it could be carried out without the knowledge of the volunteers, but the layperson's idea of what a "drugged" tiger behaves like is just not right. Tigers are lethargic by nature (I explained why before) and one of the symptoms of a drugged animal is that they inevitably have "come-downs" at some point and exhibit bouts of irrational untypical behaviour not simply docility, so concluding they are drugged simply because they aren't aggressive is not a convincing argument.

With the other issues, things like the size of cages are clearly demonstrable and so is the unsatisfactory diet. The way the animals are handled and piut on show is also undeniable, then there are the figure which suggest up to 150 tigers have gone missing, and given the numbers of tigers on display one has to wonder about how and where the more "troublesome" tigers are kept - all these issues hae strong evidence that raises questions that the temple needs to answer.

[Shawn0001]

there is something unsettling and deeply unpleasant in seeing photos of people posing with these, obviously medicated, animals.

we should know better.

PETA did an undercover study of the temple, the reason they gave for their unusually docile nature was a brutal training regime teaching them to move very slowly. Their study also found widespread health problems such as malnutrition, skeletal deformities and mental disorders. Cages were found to be a mere 6% of the recommended minimum size. Trainers were seen punching, pulling tails and spraying urine in the Tigers faces. Tigers went missing and PETA suggested that the temple may have sold them and also reported that their breeding program has resulted in a mixed breed that could never be released into the wild making rubbish the Temples claims of having conservation intentions. There is plenty to be concerned about at the Tiger temple but it doesn't seem that drugging the tigers is actually one of them.

As far s I'm aware PETA have never done any report on the temple.............Perhaps you are confusing them with the 2007 Care for theWild report, which initially was carried out in cooperation with Sybil Foxcroft (CEE4life)? If not I'd really like to see the report, so perhaps the web address?

I think if you read the CEE4life report you will see that all the issues you raise are covered by their report which covers a period from about the year 2000.

The problems you cite have always been the main concerns with the temple, diet which can lead to various health problems, the illegal breeding which has created hybrids and almost certainly leads to interbreeding as well.

The amateurish handling is symptomatic of an establishment that ignores modern animal husbandry methods.

and the missing tigers; probably the most serious of the allegations, that of trading in Tigers or their carcasses, are dealt with in great detail by the CEE4life report - you should really familiarise yourself with that.

As for the allegations of drugging, CEE$life has shown how it could be carried out without the knowledge of the volunteers, but the layperson's idea of what a "drugged" tiger behaves like is just not right. Tigers are lethargic by nature (I explained why before) and one of the symptoms of a drugged animal is that they inevitably have "come-downs" at some point and exhibit bouts of irrational untypical behaviour not simply docility, so concluding they are drugged simply because they aren't aggressive is not a convincing argument.

With the other issues, things like the size of cages are clearly demonstrable and so is the unsatisfactory diet. The way the animals are handled and piut on show is also undeniable, then there are the figure which suggest up to 150 tigers have gone missing, and given the numbers of tigers on display one has to wonder about how and where the more "troublesome" tigers are kept - all these issues hae strong evidence that raises questions that the temple needs to answer.

Sorry, Care for the Wild, PETA just wrote about their investigation.