The Forgotten Isaan Farmers and their problems.......................

[SpokaneAl]

In our area there are a great many have and have nots, with the military and retired military being the haves, owning the nice pickups and cars. They build the fancy homes among the poorer who travel on old scooters or beat up old trucks if they are lucky.

The luckier poor ones have a son or daughter who seems to be doing well and takes care of them and always seems to be flaunting their bit of wealth, buying stuff regularly. I always wonder what will happen if that youngster looses his/her job because it appears to me, at least, that they, like many in my country of the US, do not believe in saving anything and live for the moment.

Of course in the US, there are some safety nets, while here there are none.

[SpokaneAl]

This is an interesting topic. I think a big part of the issue is the mindset and that religion plays such a big part in these issues. I am always amazed at the amount of money spent to celebrate the entry into monk hood of a son by people who clearly cannot afford it.

I see people with no jobs or money who are deeply religious and take great pride in hitting up equally poor friends and neighbors for money to build their money tree for the temple. And then I see the massive amount of money in all those money trees at the temple, I often wonder why don't they take some of that money and invest in an education of their children.

Instead the children are dropped off for raising by uneducated grandparents, and the cycle continues.

[lostinisaan]

I don't generally criticise Thailand, specifically Isaan, very much.

However it seems to me that the kids get the will to learn extinguished somewhere along the way. Up to about 12 they seem bright and interested, then something happens that turns (many of) them into unreceptive clods. At 68 I am more interested in learning new stuff than many 13 - 16 year olds around here. I tried to get one lad to use a shovel, he just seemed to think that as he had never used one before, he didn't need to use one now, despite the fact he could see how fast it was compared to using a scoop.

As mentioned by a few posters, education is the key but education should make learning a pleasure and not a chore that you can cheat yourself through and finish up on the farm knowing that they definitely don't want to take over the farm. but with little idea or interest of what else they might do.

Food: they do get enough, generally, although a lot of it is stuff that I have tried once and decided that I didn't want to try again, and the onset of diabetes and obesity is well known .

I have to agree about cultivating rice though, a real pain in the a**e to be getting ฿10 - 12 /Kg after all that work and worry.

I haven't met up with TB or rotten teeth in our village, ladies coming back from Pattaya willing to deny that they have AIDS although it is clear for all to see and dying as a consequence I have seen. I have also seen ladies coming back with other STDs and not having the foggiest notion what could have caused it. My wife is the go to lady for this kind of thing since she was a marriage broker and she knows the secrets (and secrets they remain) of many people in the village.

I guess that people were also asking you if you wouldn't have a friend, brother, etc... for one of the girls in the village?

One woman offered me 25 K to find a guy for her daughter. I denied and she send her to find a job in Pattaya, she got a Buddha around her neck and I later dropped her off at the bus station on my way home.

We can't walk through the local town without being asked to find some one a Farang (ie they want money). I put a stop to that, it was very near to pimping in many cases. A friend was at the local airport and saw about ten Germans getting off the plane, not a word of Thai, paying a Chinese lady a large amount of money each and then being introduced to a Thai girl. Easy to make money like that, until the police or the local mafia get wind of it.

Yeaah, I know these freaking Krauts. I remember a German camera team making a documentary about German "holiday makes" who got robbed right at the airport, immediately after arrival. in Bangkock.

The one guy was approached by a bunch of ladyboys in a car, they told him that they'd love him too much, then wushh to a hotel, where they gave him a spiked drink and took all they wanted. And I mean all.

His first and last day in Thailand. There's a speech in Germany, on each train sits an idiot. But now they've got the refugees, makes it much easier to lose ,money.

Some people have already lost a house for the first "wife", then build a second one for the new wife. It's like a zoo.

P.S. I'm a Kraut.

Edited January 24, 2016 by lostinisaan

[sinbin]

This is an interesting topic. I think a big part of the issue is the mindset and that religion plays such a big part in these issues. I am always amazed at the amount of money spent to celebrate the entry into monk hood of a son by people who clearly cannot afford it.

I see people with no jobs or money who are deeply religious and take great pride in hitting up equally poor friends and neighbors for money to build their money tree for the temple. And then I see the massive amount of money in all those money trees at the temple, I often wonder why don't they take some of that money and invest in an education of their children.

The simple answer to your post SpokaneAl is that Thais believe in what you give you get back. Also they're siht scared of the afterlife and if they aren't seen to be good Buddhists then they won't go to heaven, so to speak. That's more important important than their children's education. It's call selfishness.

Edited January 24, 2016 by sinbin

[lostinisaan]

This is an interesting topic. I think a big part of the issue is the mindset and that religion plays such a big part in these issues. I am always amazed at the amount of money spent to celebrate the entry into monk hood of a son by people who clearly cannot afford it.

I see people with no jobs or money who are deeply religious and take great pride in hitting up equally poor friends and neighbors for money to build their money tree for the temple. And then I see the massive amount of money in all those money trees at the temple, I often wonder why don't they take some of that money and invest in an education of their children.

The simple answer to your post SpokaneAl is that Thais believe in what you give you get back. Also they're siht scared of the afterlife and if they aren't seen to be good Buddhists then they won't go to heaven, so to speak. That's more important important than their children's education. It's call selfishness.

Please no Thai bashing.

[cooked]

This is an interesting topic. I think a big part of the issue is the mindset and that religion plays such a big part in these issues. I am always amazed at the amount of money spent to celebrate the entry into monk hood of a son by people who clearly cannot afford it.

I see people with no jobs or money who are deeply religious and take great pride in hitting up equally poor friends and neighbors for money to build their money tree for the temple. And then I see the massive amount of money in all those money trees at the temple, I often wonder why don't they take some of that money and invest in an education of their children.

The simple answer to your post SpokaneAl is that Thais believe in what you give you get back. Also they're siht scared of the afterlife and if they aren't seen to be good Buddhists then they won't go to heaven, so to speak. That's more important important than their children's education. It's call selfishness.

Please no Thai bashing.

I didn't know that Buddhists believed in an after life.

[lostinisaan]

This is an interesting topic. I think a big part of the issue is the mindset and that religion plays such a big part in these issues. I am always amazed at the amount of money spent to celebrate the entry into monk hood of a son by people who clearly cannot afford it.

I see people with no jobs or money who are deeply religious and take great pride in hitting up equally poor friends and neighbors for money to build their money tree for the temple. And then I see the massive amount of money in all those money trees at the temple, I often wonder why don't they take some of that money and invest in an education of their children.

The simple answer to your post SpokaneAl is that Thais believe in what you give you get back. Also they're siht scared of the afterlife and if they aren't seen to be good Buddhists then they won't go to heaven, so to speak. That's more important important than their children's education. It's call selfishness.

Please no Thai bashing.

I didn't know that Buddhists believed in an after life.

Actually, some of them do. It took many years to find out what they think when one of their kids turns into a "ladyboy."

If there're three kids and one boy loves to dress up it's an easy explanation. He was a woman in his life before with a lot of lovers.

That's why he came back as a he/she. Easy to understand, or? You gotta get in to get out..

Dogs were people who did some strange things in their lives before. That's why they only wuff and bite.

But it still doesn't really explain why some of them eat them?

And I want to come back as a good looking girl, find myself an old millionaire with cancer and life's good.

Edited January 25, 2016 by lostinisaan

[lostinisaan]

I don't generally criticise Thailand, specifically Isaan, very much.

However it seems to me that the kids get the will to learn extinguished somewhere along the way. Up to about 12 they seem bright and interested, then something happens that turns (many of) them into unreceptive clods. At 68 I am more interested in learning new stuff than many 13 - 16 year olds around here. I tried to get one lad to use a shovel, he just seemed to think that as he had never used one before, he didn't need to use one now, despite the fact he could see how fast it was compared to using a scoop.

As mentioned by a few posters, education is the key but education should make learning a pleasure and not a chore that you can cheat yourself through and finish up on the farm knowing that they definitely don't want to take over the farm. but with little idea or interest of what else they might do.

Food: they do get enough, generally, although a lot of it is stuff that I have tried once and decided that I didn't want to try again, and the onset of diabetes and obesity is well known .

I have to agree about cultivating rice though, a real pain in the a**e to be getting ฿10 - 12 /Kg after all that work and worry.

I haven't met up with TB or rotten teeth in our village, ladies coming back from Pattaya willing to deny that they have AIDS although it is clear for all to see and dying as a consequence I have seen. I have also seen ladies coming back with other STDs and not having the foggiest notion what could have caused it. My wife is the go to lady for this kind of thing since she was a marriage broker and she knows the secrets (and secrets they remain) of many people in the village.

I know why they are how they are. It's a change of their bodies and most of them realize the difference between male and female body parts.

That makes learning English taught by an old fart like me less interesting. But I keep my lessons funny, which helps a lot.

And porn is too easy available these days//////

[Maggusoil]

Are you NUTS? My wife's family farms rice in Ubon! None of the above applies! Yes, they are poor, but happy! My wife went to

work in Korat at 18 and then she got her undergraduate degree at night! She took the Civil Service Exam after graduation and was

Number 2 in NE Thailand. Got a great job in the District Admin. She now has her MBA and is C-7 at 45. Her Teeth are beautiful

and I asked about brushing her teeth on the farm. Her Grandmother made toothbrushes and toothpaste at very little cost, if any.

so, don't put this CRAP OUT!

Are you nuts?

How can you compare your family with these people he observed. Ridiculous. Your family are lucky. I have seen both sides of this picture and for every successful family there are hundreds that aren't.

[loong]

To be honest, it's a mystery to me how many families survive. There are some hard workers in this Isaan village and they seem to do quite well. But there is quite a high proportion that hardly ever go to work and spend their time drinking/sleeping/gambling. Yet they seem to get by and are happy except when blind drunk and wanting to fight everybody.

My Missus worked at a net factory for a while and she said that the factory workers were mostly from neighbouring countries. The reason being that they simply could not get enough Thai workers that would show up for work every day. It was hard work and 12 hour shifts and most Thais quit after a short time.

[Sutty]

I don't agree with the vast majority of the OP yes they are poor yes they go our to cut sugar for 300 bht a day. But to say incest is rife or HIV is rife is nonsense. All the Thais I know have exellent hygiene and why would they want hot showers!!!! Having had cool showers all there life. You paint a picture which just isn't true.

[houston]

This is an interesting topic. I think a big part of the issue is the mindset and that religion plays such a big part in these issues. I am always amazed at the amount of money spent to celebrate the entry into monk hood of a son by people who clearly cannot afford it.

I see people with no jobs or money who are deeply religious and take great pride in hitting up equally poor friends and neighbors for money to build their money tree for the temple. And then I see the massive amount of money in all those money trees at the temple, I often wonder why don't they take some of that money and invest in an education of their children.

The simple answer to your post SpokaneAl is that Thais believe in what you give you get back. Also they're siht scared of the afterlife and if they aren't seen to be good Buddhists then they won't go to heaven, so to speak. That's more important important than their children's education. It's call selfishness.

I don't think people are selfish with their children for only afterlife purpose but extra education is expensive and complicated for poor people. Giving money to the temple is only a hope gesture for having in near future better regular family life. At the ban i plan to live (Issan), temple received lot of money from people, i don't know if temple helps the very poor or not but I saw them build more luxurious and bigger temple, that can make me ask myself some questions about big amount of money temple received from people.

Personally, I think we are an individual who cannot solve Thai problems. For my part, I plan to take little time to help children at the ban to learn English or help them mathematics problems, Specially in the ban, education level is very low, teachers at ban seems not very competent.

[SpokaneAl]

This is an interesting topic. I think a big part of the issue is the mindset and that religion plays such a big part in these issues. I am always amazed at the amount of money spent to celebrate the entry into monk hood of a son by people who clearly cannot afford it.

I see people with no jobs or money who are deeply religious and take great pride in hitting up equally poor friends and neighbors for money to build their money tree for the temple. And then I see the massive amount of money in all those money trees at the temple, I often wonder why don't they take some of that money and invest in an education of their children.

The simple answer to your post SpokaneAl is that Thais believe in what you give you get back. Also they're siht scared of the afterlife and if they aren't seen to be good Buddhists then they won't go to heaven, so to speak. That's more important important than their children's education. It's call selfishness.

I don't think people are selfish with their children for only afterlife purpose but extra education is expensive and complicated for poor people. Giving money to the temple is only a hope gesture for having in near future better regular family life. At the ban i plan to live (Issan), temple received lot of money from people, i don't know if temple helps the very poor or not but I saw them build more luxurious and bigger temple, that can make me ask myself some questions about big amount of money temple received from people.

Personally, I think we are an individual who cannot solve Thai problems. For my part, I plan to take little time to help children at the ban to learn English or help them mathematics problems, Specially in the ban, education level is very low, teachers at ban seems not very competent.

Good for you but don't forget that you could face visa issues if you do not do things correctly.

[georgemandm]

It took quite a while to find out how a lot of farmers in Isaan really live. And what's behind their smiles.

Many of them do not "make" enough money to buy basic things like toothbrushes and toothpaste.Neither shampoo, nor any conditioner can be seen ii an ordinary Isaan style bathroom.

Too many people do not brush their teeth, they're only using some powder and rub it over their teeth which doesn't clean them.

Not too many have hot water to have a shower in winter. And the list goes on and on.

Most of them do not have enough money to see a dentist, if they've got a toothache they just don't go to see a dentist, just because they know they can't afford it.

A dentist at a hospital has only 10 minutes per "30 baht patient". If there's a root canal treatment necessary, or something else, they have to see a dentist at a clinic. But they can't afford it to go to a clinic.So they can't get it done and lose more and more teeth. Weird, or?

Many kids at rural schools have rotten teeth in the age of five, the dentists who check their teeth at school can't fix their lives in poverty and nobody seems to care about these circumstances.

Many older people have to raise the kids of their own children who work somewhere else. If they don't send money every month, life's getting even more extreme. The suicide rate is very high in rural Isaan...

I've read some posts on this forum where people thought they'd receive warm clothes every year from their government and that they'd be lazy bastards.

All they receive when over 60 is 1,000 baht per month, an amount we easily spend when we eat out.

Child pregnancy is very high. Uncles and other relatives take advantage of little kids, nobody talks to the cops. Nobody wants to lose face.

Plenty of people have HIV, or already developed AIDS, which is now treated at rural hospitals, as well. But too many of them just don't go to see a doctor, because it's a stigma to live with this virus.

Another big problem is tuberculosis. Those who're sick might receive treatment and the advice to take it for at least six months. But many of them stop taking the medication when they feel better. And all comes back, others get infected, etc.. Insanity pure, caused by non existing education.

I've seen quite a few people dying of AIDS in my wife's village, one mother refused to wash her daughter because she thought she'd get infected. I've told her what I thought of herti

Another guy, a Japanese national brought his wife back to the village. She wasn't needed anymore and died a lonely death. I was with her in her last hours.

Neighbors stopped talking to them, once they found out that somebody in the house had the virus. Nobody really knows what the virus really is and schools don't touch this topic because the teachers don't know anything about it.

Nobody gets a free house with a red door. Nobody receives free food from an organisation. And nobody really seems to care about them.

They received some money when they voted for Thaksin % Co, the current military Junta seems to be too busy to help them.

One rice harvest per year and only a few baht per kilo for their rice is the total rip off. Well, the 3 baht per kilo harvested chilies in the hot sun makes life not much better. Only good business for the guy who sells them on the market.

How do they feel when they watch the soap operas about the always rich people in Bangkok with their fancy houses and cars is what I think when we sit there and watch always the same bullshit. Day by day, week by week, month by month.

The teachers at village schools are often so uneducated that they can hardly teach anybody anything. If you find a village English teacher who can say more than hello in English, you had good luck.

Farmers in a village can hardly send their kids to a better school in the city, so what chances do they have when they're older?

Each and every refugee in Europe has a lot more to eat, more clothes and a much better future with a good education all these people can only dream of. These Thai farmers do not deal drugs, they're honest people.

The government's trying to get their land by telling them that they can have a cheap credit, knowing that they can't afford it to pay it back.

And so many people are wondering why so many young people take drugs, trying to leave this boredom for a few hours?

The forgotten farmers of Isaan are the poorest farmers of the ASEAN member countries. And that includes Myanmar and Cambodia.

I truly feel sorry for them and do all I can to help them. Have a great weekend.

Look I can understand what you are saying good on you but you have no hop of trying to save thailand for it self that is how it is in 3 rd world country like thailand.

If you choose to live in a poor thai village you just have to live with the way it is .

I for one have live in a thai village and I last about 4 weeks and have to get out go back home to my country to hard for me thai villages but I and you have no hop of changed the place.

All most Thais care about in there villages are they selfs and like to gossip all day that is the worst thing about the village so you want to live in one then you have to put up with it .

Cheers all the best in trying to help out good on you but not for me .

.

[ggt]

Politics in Thailand...being what they are...make helping Isaan Farmers a bit complicated...if I say more some people may see RED!

[nahkit]

"Many of them do not "make" enough money to buy basic things like toothbrushes and toothpaste. Neither shampoo, nor any conditioner can be seen ii an ordinary Isaan style bathroom."

We have at least five small shops in our village, they all stock toothpaste, soap, shampoo and conditioner amongst other items. Who exactly are they selling this to if ordinary village people can't afford it?

" How do they feel when they watch the soap operas about the always rich people in Bangkok with their fancy houses and cars is what I think when we sit there and watch always the same bullshit."

So by "they", you mean the people who according to you can't afford toothpaste but can afford a television?

[sawadee1947]

well, it sounds much exaggerated to me. Indeed Isaan is a poor area. And indeed people don't have much money for spending. And indeed you can't compare them with Bangkok people (though many of them are poor as well).

But you picture them as loosers of any reform. Probably rice farming might not be the best option to earn money. Even PM said this(!). On a long run rice uses too much water to grow....

But anyway, compare to us they have a poor life.

[Shiver]

I see people who have very little in material terms, but I've never seen anyone starve or be wanting for a shirt on their back. There are some on the streets though, and I wonder why they don't go to the Wat where (depending on location) they often have a large excess of food gifted to them that they quite literally give to the dogs. In more rural areas this may not be the case though, and my experience is limited in that area.

My inlaws have little (except for a decent amount of land), but then they're not profligate spenders either, and do save much of the modest amount of money I send them, spending only on necessities, and have little use for anything I could provide since they've lived that way all their lives. My GF wants to buy a hot water shower for them (I thought I'd solved this one years ago before I realised she was spending money on more dubious activities at that time - that's why I send direct now, just to be safe, even though I believe that behaviour has long been resolved). The family know I'll be there for them, so little else (nothing really) is asked of me, anything offered is freely given.

It's not hard to imagine though what it must look like for those on the bottom rung think when they see someone really successful in their village build a really big house and see that as success, and probably also why the girls sacrifice themselves to provide for their families. That's a whole other topic though.

[joebrown]

Are you NUTS? My wife's family farms rice in Ubon! None of the above applies! Yes, they are poor, but happy! My wife went to

work in Korat at 18 and then she got her undergraduate degree at night! She took the Civil Service Exam after graduation and was

Number 2 in NE Thailand. Got a great job in the District Admin. She now has her MBA and is C-7 at 45. Her Teeth are beautiful

and I asked about brushing her teeth on the farm. Her Grandmother made toothbrushes and toothpaste at very little cost, if any.

so, don't put this CRAP OUT!

Are you nuts?

How can you compare your family with these people he observed. Ridiculous. Your family are lucky. I have seen both sides of this picture and for every successful family there are hundreds that aren't.

I'm not sure who's talking crap here but from my experience of living in the north and more recently trips up there, I see that one thing is obvious, which is the chasm between the living standards of the 'haves' and the 'have nots'. What's noticeable is that a limited number of occupations appear to have the most employee benefits, such as healthcare, cheap loans, sick/holidaypay and pensions. These jobs, usually in civil service, teaching and military are highly sought after and the education standards to qualify are often out of reach for the average agricultural workers' family.

It is sad that in Isaan many grandparents have to take care of their grandchildren simply because there isn't enough meaningful work for their own children. This cannot be the best upbringing for these youngsters, who should have parental love and care in their formative years, However, it is accepted as a normal necessary way of life. Those old folk on their pittance of a pension might be fortunate to have grown up children and/or kind neighbours to help out with food and other necessities of life. Those less fortunate suffer, and have to rely on 'hand outs' of food etc from the local temple..

When I see the PM on TV talking about a 'sufficiency' economy, I often wonder whether the majority of the population even understand what he's saying. Maybe if he understood what subsistence farming meant, he might have an insight into the 'self-help' economy of the average Khun Somchai agricultural worker in Isaan.

Edited January 25, 2016 by joebrown

[luxoretired]

its an interesting topic because we see it from another perspective ,we have different beliefs and different aspirations .in the western world would you buy gold to show off in the market or a new central heating system ?we would buy a new car (some of us )to park outside , not in the garage ,to show the newest model .but we have the money to drive the car and we need one.few villagers buy hygiene products or a real kitchen because it has no " face value " but gold does .it amuses me to see poorly dressed women squatting "in the kitchen " that is on a brick in the mud in the "garden" (garden is dust or mud )next to the only one tap they have but adorned with lumps of gold ,not elegant designs of gold , a lump .but this is important for the visit to the market . "look ! i got there ! smart phone i cannot use and a gold brick ! as we have such different values its hard for us to understand so its slated as stupidity but in reality its only "different " from us .im certain the villagers think im crazy to waste money on good food , insulation in my house and fine furniture , why ! i even have a bed ! can you imagine ! so stupid when you can lay on the floor !what a waste of money just think the size of gold lump you could get for the price of a bed and a table ! So its all in the mind that we can never change as they have never known an existence like that .

However once " converted " they never want to return to the same level .

ask a Thai living permanently in the west and the answer is always never to return to live but to visit YES ! 2 or 3 times a year if possible !

my wife is under constant pressure in the village for MORE and MORE of what she had given when working so a visit to the village is stress !

[Maggusoil]

Are you NUTS? My wife's family farms rice in Ubon! None of the above applies! Yes, they are poor, but happy! My wife went to

work in Korat at 18 and then she got her undergraduate degree at night! She took the Civil Service Exam after graduation and was

Number 2 in NE Thailand. Got a great job in the District Admin. She now has her MBA and is C-7 at 45. Her Teeth are beautiful

and I asked about brushing her teeth on the farm. Her Grandmother made toothbrushes and toothpaste at very little cost, if any.

so, don't put this CRAP OUT!

Are you nuts?

How can you compare your family with these people he observed. Ridiculous. Your family are lucky. I have seen both sides of this picture and for every successful family there are hundreds that aren't.

I'm not sure who's talking crap here but from my experience of living in the north and more recently trips up there, I see that one thing is obvious, which is the chasm between the living standards of the 'haves' and the 'have nots'. What's noticeable is that a limited number of occupations appear to have the most employee benefits, such as healthcare, cheap loans, sick/holidaypay and pensions. These jobs, usually in civil service, teaching and military are highly sought after and the education standards to qualify are often out of reach for the average agricultural workers' family.

It is sad that in Isaan many grandparents have to take care of their grandchildren simply because there isn't enough meaningful work for their own children. This cannot be the best upbringing for these youngsters, who should have parental love and care in their formative years, However, it is accepted as a normal necessary way of life. Those old folk on their pittance of a pension might be fortunate to have grown up children and/or kind neighbours to help out with food and other necessities of life. Those less fortunate suffer, and have to rely on 'hand outs' of food etc from the local temple..

When I see the PM on TV talking about a 'sufficiency' economy, I often wonder whether the majority of the population even understand what he's saying. Maybe if he understood what subsistence farming meant, he might have an insight into the 'self-help' economy of the average Khun Somchai agricultural worker in Isaan.

I live with a very large extended family who have sweet f a, but they are some of the happiest people I know or have ever met. All the usual problems but they entertain each other admirably and are considerably and consistently happier than most anyone I have ever met in 70 years on the planet.

That's something I respect and admire and one of the things that keeps me caring for my young daughter here. However to give her the life I know she can fulfill in the world, I anticipate moving away.

[manfredtillmann]

I don't generally criticise Thailand, specifically Isaan, very much.

However it seems to me that the kids get the will to learn extinguished somewhere along the way. Up to about 12 they seem bright and interested, then something happens that turns (many of) them into unreceptive clods. At 68 I am more interested in learning new stuff than many 13 - 16 year olds around here. I tried to get one lad to use a shovel, he just seemed to think that as he had never used one before, he didn't need to use one now, despite the fact he could see how fast it was compared to using a scoop.

As mentioned by a few posters, education is the key but education should make learning a pleasure and not a chore that you can cheat yourself through and finish up on the farm knowing that they definitely don't want to take over the farm. but with little idea or interest of what else they might do.

Food: they do get enough, generally, although a lot of it is stuff that I have tried once and decided that I didn't want to try again, and the onset of diabetes and obesity is well known .

I have to agree about cultivating rice though, a real pain in the a**e to be getting ฿10 - 12 /Kg after all that work and worry.

I haven't met up with TB or rotten teeth in our village, ladies coming back from Pattaya willing to deny that they have AIDS although it is clear for all to see and dying as a consequence I have seen. I have also seen ladies coming back with other STDs and not having the foggiest notion what could have caused it. My wife is the go to lady for this kind of thing since she was a marriage broker and she knows the secrets (and secrets they remain) of many people in the village.

I guess that people were also asking you if you wouldn't have a friend, brother, etc... for one of the girls in the village?

One woman offered me 25 K to find a guy for her daughter. I denied and she send her to find a job in Pattaya, she got a Buddha around her neck and I later dropped her off at the bus station on my way home.

We can't walk through the local town without being asked to find some one a Farang (ie they want money). I put a stop to that, it was very near to pimping in many cases. A friend was at the local airport and saw about ten Germans getting off the plane, not a word of Thai, paying a Chinese lady a large amount of money each and then being introduced to a Thai girl. Easy to make money like that, until the police or the local mafia get wind of it.

Yeaah, I know these freaking Krauts. I remember a German camera team making a documentary about German "holiday makes" who got robbed right at the airport, immediately after arrival. in Bangkock.

The one guy was approached by a bunch of ladyboys in a car, they told him that they'd love him too much, then wushh to a hotel, where they gave him a spiked drink and took all they wanted. And I mean all.

His first and last day in Thailand. There's a speech in Germany, on each train sits an idiot. But now they've got the refugees, makes it much easier to lose ,money.

Some people have already lost a house for the first "wife", then build a second one for the new wife. It's like a zoo.

P.S. I'm a Kraut.

so you are! all good, there are plenty of us. never heard of the 'train' thing, but, and my mother was a quoter of 'sayings'. actually, she looked so much like your avatar when she was young.

but i don't think you should make this post connect to being german.

what makes 'us' so unpleasant to other earth people is exactly the same thing that makes german products so desirable. being a meticulous, efficient and result focused person renders us socially unfit in a world of second raters. i suffer from that every day - and i love it.

[KevinB]

Good post - lost in isaan. And thanks who ever moved it from the Isaan site to the main ThaiVisa site.

As anyone who has read the posts will have noticed the normal trolls are out accusing the person posting of exaggeration and / or lies. A sad reflection on the level of understanding of many of the farang who live here with the minds and head stuck up some dark and ill-informed place. Those who don't even bother to understand the history of where they live nor read anything other than the numerous mindless post on expat sites.

Might I suggest the writings of one of Thailand's best authors in English - Pira Canning Sudham. He is unique having lived and studied most of his adult life outside the country - New Zealand, Australia and the UK and to have published all his books in English (so those who get so upset with people writing about Thailand with poor grammer can relax when they read him). His writings have achieved international acclaim and most are available locally in good bookshops (yes doubter they do exist - try Asia Books you'll find them in most the big malls). I specifically recommend - People of Esarn - The Dammed of Thailand - recently up-dated and republished by AsiaShire with another of his smaller books The Kingdom in Conflicts.

He is world famous for his spectacularly well written novels based on life in Isaan - Monsoon Country and The Force of Karma (meaning that some people who are well read outside the country have more of an understanding of what is going on in Thailand than many of those who live here with their blinkers on).

Anyway - his writings stand testament to the systematic abuse and deprivation that the group of provinces in the North East known has Isaan have suffered over the decades - the locals, as mainly speaker of Lao, have actually suffer centuries of neglect by the elite and Hi-So in Bangkok. The area suffers the natural affliction of low rainfall, being a plateau many miles from the Indian Ocean from which the main SE Monsoon arrives dumping most its moisture on the rest on the Kingdom before it gets to Isaan and partially shielded from the NE Monsoon blowing in from the Pacific by the mountains of Vietnam. But it's greatest affliction are its "natural resources" mercilessly plundered by Thai industrialists for raw material and their need for power. First came the salt and phosphate "miners" - under the fragile soils lay massive deposits of low grade salt - extracted by the chemical industrials and in the process they contaminated the land. Massive seepage from the salt mines and discharge of waste water damaged paddy and polluted canals and turned rivers brackish. Using this water added a crust / layer of salt to paddies hundreds of km away drastically lowering yields. Next the giant hydro-electric dams - the Sirindhorn and Moonmouth - many now argue them to be ecological disasters which displaced hundred of thousands of small households under their waters and drastically affected everyone down-stream - fisherman, farmers and communities dependent on the flow of water and the regular flooding of rivers and streams to bring in new nutrients to the alluvial soils along the drainage lines. These EGAT projects supplied cheap electricity to the industries in the South while millions in Isaan still waited to be connected to the grid. Then the timber strippers chewed up hundreds of thousand of rai of complex natural forests dragging out millions of USD in hard woods and after the areas had been damaged enough to be reclassified as "degraded" by Forestry Department - the next set of resource grabbers moved it - replanting the areas with non-indigenous trees like eucalyptus for eventual "harvesting" as wood chip for the paper industry (for a while the wood chip was exported raw to Japanese paper mills). The wood and paper industry further contributed to massive water pollution and the period during which new "forests" re-grew most hilly areas experienced severe erosion - silting local steams and drying up ancient springs that had previously provided fresh water. The re-established mono-species forests were devoid of natural fruit trees, important local dietary components during the "hungry season" and the way in which eucalyptus protects itself from competition by other plants by its roots producing its own growth retardants in the soil - local mushrooms, small scrubs (with edible leaves) and bamboo disappeared completely in some areas.

Welcome to the reality of Isaan today - every measured statistic in Thailand from number of women dying in childbirth to infant mortality to proportion of undernourished children ranks Isaan as the poorest area in the Kingdom. It is estimated that 75% of the prostitutes come from Isaan and maybe readers believe it is because those girls want old farangs to slobber and drool on them - NO it is because of their families POVERTY. It has been convenient for the owners of the establishments that make money off them (ask yourself who they are) to keep Isaan poor to maintain the supply of fresh and equally desperate girls.

Wake up folk and smell the coffee and understand how it is brewed and sold in the country you live in.

[tomwct]

Time to change the Topic! "The Happy Isaan Farmer & Most of their problems caused by themselves and/or others! No Education,

studying is too much work and they don't want to work! No Money! They like too work "nit noi" and drink plenty! They are Happy

Poor! The don't want to change! Let them be Happy! It's their Lives not ours!

[Sutty]

Good post - lost in isaan. And thanks who ever moved it from the Isaan site to the main ThaiVisa site.

As anyone who has read the posts will have noticed the normal trolls are out accusing the person posting of exaggeration and / or lies. A sad reflection on the level of understanding of many of the farang who live here with the minds and head stuck up some dark and ill-informed place. Those who don't even bother to understand the history of where they live nor read anything other than the numerous mindless post on expat sites.

Might I suggest the writings of one of Thailand's best authors in English - Pira Canning Sudham. He is unique having lived and studied most of his adult life outside the country - New Zealand, Australia and the UK and to have published all his books in English (so those who get so upset with people writing about Thailand with poor grammer can relax when they read him). His writings have achieved international acclaim and most are available locally in good bookshops (yes doubter they do exist - try Asia Books you'll find them in most the big malls). I specifically recommend - People of Esarn - The Dammed of Thailand - recently up-dated and republished by AsiaShire with another of his smaller books The Kingdom in Conflicts.

He is world famous for his spectacularly well written novels based on life in Isaan - Monsoon Country and The Force of Karma (meaning that some people who are well read outside the country have more of an understanding of what is going on in Thailand than many of those who live here with their blinkers on).

Anyway - his writings stand testament to the systematic abuse and deprivation that the group of provinces in the North East known has Isaan have suffered over the decades - the locals, as mainly speaker of Lao, have actually suffer centuries of neglect by the elite and Hi-So in Bangkok. The area suffers the natural affliction of low rainfall, being a plateau many miles from the Indian Ocean from which the main SE Monsoon arrives dumping most its moisture on the rest on the Kingdom before it gets to Isaan and partially shielded from the NE Monsoon blowing in from the Pacific by the mountains of Vietnam. But it's greatest affliction are its "natural resources" mercilessly plundered by Thai industrialists for raw material and their need for power. First came the salt and phosphate "miners" - under the fragile soils lay massive deposits of low grade salt - extracted by the chemical industrials and in the process they contaminated the land. Massive seepage from the salt mines and discharge of waste water damaged paddy and polluted canals and turned rivers brackish. Using this water added a crust / layer of salt to paddies hundreds of km away drastically lowering yields. Next the giant hydro-electric dams - the Sirindhorn and Moonmouth - many now argue them to be ecological disasters which displaced hundred of thousands of small households under their waters and drastically affected everyone down-stream - fisherman, farmers and communities dependent on the flow of water and the regular flooding of rivers and streams to bring in new nutrients to the alluvial soils along the drainage lines. These EGAT projects supplied cheap electricity to the industries in the South while millions in Isaan still waited to be connected to the grid. Then the timber strippers chewed up hundreds of thousand of rai of complex natural forests dragging out millions of USD in hard woods and after the areas had been damaged enough to be reclassified as "degraded" by Forestry Department - the next set of resource grabbers moved it - replanting the areas with non-indigenous trees like eucalyptus for eventual "harvesting" as wood chip for the paper industry (for a while the wood chip was exported raw to Japanese paper mills). The wood and paper industry further contributed to massive water pollution and the period during which new "forests" re-grew most hilly areas experienced severe erosion - silting local steams and drying up ancient springs that had previously provided fresh water. The re-established mono-species forests were devoid of natural fruit trees, important local dietary components during the "hungry season" and the way in which eucalyptus protects itself from competition by other plants by its roots producing its own growth retardants in the soil - local mushrooms, small scrubs (with edible leaves) and bamboo disappeared completely in some areas.

Welcome to the reality of Isaan today - every measured statistic in Thailand from number of women dying in childbirth to infant mortality to proportion of undernourished children ranks Isaan as the poorest area in the Kingdom. It is estimated that 75% of the prostitutes come from Isaan and maybe readers believe it is because those girls want old farangs to slobber and drool on them - NO it is because of their families POVERTY. It has been convenient for the owners of the establishments that make money off them (ask yourself who they are) to keep Isaan poor to maintain the supply of fresh and equally desperate girls.

Wake up folk and smell the coffee and understand how it is brewed and sold in the country you live in.

Excuse me for saying what the OP said is not the case in my adopted rice farmers village I'm no troll as you insinuate stop trying to tell me and the world what happens in a place I live and see no similarity in your or the OP post thank you

[davidst01]

OP your comments are widely inaccurate as usual.

OP says ''A dentist at a hospital has only 10 minutes per "30 baht patient". If there's a root canal treatment necessary, or something else, they have to see a dentist at a clinic. But they can't afford it to go to a clinic.So they can't get it done and lose more and more teeth. Weird, or?''

My wife is a dentist in a govt hospital and laughed at this comment. She does root canal treatment everyday and it takes longer than 10min and NO they dont get turned away. Thats a load of B.S

Not all English teachers in Thai schools are illiterate. The wifes mother is one and she speaks very good English.

Is your post based on any evidence or just opinion only??

[davidst01]

Good post - lost in isaan. And thanks who ever moved it from the Isaan site to the main ThaiVisa site.

As anyone who has read the posts will have noticed the normal trolls are out accusing the person posting of exaggeration and / or lies. A sad reflection on the level of understanding of many of the farang who live here with the minds and head stuck up some dark and ill-informed place. Those who don't even bother to understand the history of where they live nor read anything other than the numerous mindless post on expat sites.

Might I suggest the writings of one of Thailand's best authors in English - Pira Canning Sudham. He is unique having lived and studied most of his adult life outside the country - New Zealand, Australia and the UK and to have published all his books in English (so those who get so upset with people writing about Thailand with poor grammer can relax when they read him). His writings have achieved international acclaim and most are available locally in good bookshops (yes doubter they do exist - try Asia Books you'll find them in most the big malls). I specifically recommend - People of Esarn - The Dammed of Thailand - recently up-dated and republished by AsiaShire with another of his smaller books The Kingdom in Conflicts.

He is world famous for his spectacularly well written novels based on life in Isaan - Monsoon Country and The Force of Karma (meaning that some people who are well read outside the country have more of an understanding of what is going on in Thailand than many of those who live here with their blinkers on).

Anyway - his writings stand testament to the systematic abuse and deprivation that the group of provinces in the North East known has Isaan have suffered over the decades - the locals, as mainly speaker of Lao, have actually suffer centuries of neglect by the elite and Hi-So in Bangkok. The area suffers the natural affliction of low rainfall, being a plateau many miles from the Indian Ocean from which the main SE Monsoon arrives dumping most its moisture on the rest on the Kingdom before it gets to Isaan and partially shielded from the NE Monsoon blowing in from the Pacific by the mountains of Vietnam. But it's greatest affliction are its "natural resources" mercilessly plundered by Thai industrialists for raw material and their need for power. First came the salt and phosphate "miners" - under the fragile soils lay massive deposits of low grade salt - extracted by the chemical industrials and in the process they contaminated the land. Massive seepage from the salt mines and discharge of waste water damaged paddy and polluted canals and turned rivers brackish. Using this water added a crust / layer of salt to paddies hundreds of km away drastically lowering yields. Next the giant hydro-electric dams - the Sirindhorn and Moonmouth - many now argue them to be ecological disasters which displaced hundred of thousands of small households under their waters and drastically affected everyone down-stream - fisherman, farmers and communities dependent on the flow of water and the regular flooding of rivers and streams to bring in new nutrients to the alluvial soils along the drainage lines. These EGAT projects supplied cheap electricity to the industries in the South while millions in Isaan still waited to be connected to the grid. Then the timber strippers chewed up hundreds of thousand of rai of complex natural forests dragging out millions of USD in hard woods and after the areas had been damaged enough to be reclassified as "degraded" by Forestry Department - the next set of resource grabbers moved it - replanting the areas with non-indigenous trees like eucalyptus for eventual "harvesting" as wood chip for the paper industry (for a while the wood chip was exported raw to Japanese paper mills). The wood and paper industry further contributed to massive water pollution and the period during which new "forests" re-grew most hilly areas experienced severe erosion - silting local steams and drying up ancient springs that had previously provided fresh water. The re-established mono-species forests were devoid of natural fruit trees, important local dietary components during the "hungry season" and the way in which eucalyptus protects itself from competition by other plants by its roots producing its own growth retardants in the soil - local mushrooms, small scrubs (with edible leaves) and bamboo disappeared completely in some areas.

Welcome to the reality of Isaan today - every measured statistic in Thailand from number of women dying in childbirth to infant mortality to proportion of undernourished children ranks Isaan as the poorest area in the Kingdom. It is estimated that 75% of the prostitutes come from Isaan and maybe readers believe it is because those girls want old farangs to slobber and drool on them - NO it is because of their families POVERTY. It has been convenient for the owners of the establishments that make money off them (ask yourself who they are) to keep Isaan poor to maintain the supply of fresh and equally desperate girls.

Wake up folk and smell the coffee and understand how it is brewed and sold in the country you live in.

Is this your 2nd user id mr lost in issan? Is your real name Kevin?

[cooked]

Time to change the Topic! "The Happy Isaan Farmer & Most of their problems caused by themselves and/or others! No Education,

studying is too much work and they don't want to work! No Money! They like too work "nit noi" and drink plenty! They are Happy

Poor! The don't want to change! Let them be Happy! It's their Lives not ours!

Great post.

Motivation to learn can be killed in a school and social system that represses all initiative or creativity. You need money to study, I can't see many of the farmers in this village sending their kids to school at their own costs, do you think that the state pays for further education? (They do, but not for the fist year). I don't know where the SIL would find ฿50- 100 000 a year each for his three sons. They don't like to work. Nor would I, lumping ice around for 11 - 12 hours a day six-seven days a week for a pittance. Working on the farm is becoming increasingly Step grand kid literally bust a gut doing that and his wife left him taking the kid with her to 'find a Farang'. She is HIV positive by the way, nobody told her about AIDS.

How about we talk about the happy Farang that loses all his cash to some girl 30 years younger through pure bloody stupidity? Or the Farang that hates Thais because he only meets them in bars? Or 'visited Isaan for a week once and didn't like it'? These remarks are just as justified as yours are.

[lostinisaan]

I don't agree with the vast majority of the OP yes they are poor yes they go our to cut sugar for 300 bht a day. But to say incest is rife or HIV is rife is nonsense. All the Thais I know have exellent hygiene and why would they want hot showers!!!! Having had cool showers all there life. You paint a picture which just isn't true.

It was never my intention that everybody agrees with anything what anybody writes, or says.

How can you have excellent hygiene if you only have cold water in winter? I was there. done that, it doesn't work. Even if you have shampoo ( which the most don't have and they use a cheap soap) , you don't get the foam out of your hair when using a small bucket.

The foam then stays in your hair and if it's really cold people do not shower a long time, because the water is too cold. Was there, done that.

I lived in this particular village for 1 + year and since then I'm always there for a few nights, a short visit, a Morlam sing and dance event, or a cremation.

What you might not know is that some ( more and more ) youngsters take guns to such events and cops are most of the time present. Please watch the youngsters how they're starring at the half naked girls on stage. There're always fights and guns often involved.

I've seen some shootings with my own eyes, also in the capital city Sisaket at night. So if you think there's no rape, no guns, no crime, please wake up.

They a sort of know that they'll never score and some of them find a victim in the village after a certain amount of Lhao Kao.

I love my mom and dad in law a lot and they never brushed their teeth. Nor did all the other relatives in the family and all the others ( of course are there exceptions) in the village.Mom just lost three very important teeth, went through terrible pain, but never saw a dentist.

Same goes for all the villages around, of course with some exceptions.

There was no money for it. Her son who wanted to commit suicide needs all her attention and has to be spoon fed every morning. I'm glad that his two sons are almost adults and they seem to understand how to deal with their difficult situation.

I love them as well as they are my own kids. They both drove to Bangkok to make enough money in a factory to pay for their school, one bought a PC I fixed for him a few days ago.

Many don't even have a bicycle. Where the heck do they cut sugar? There's no sugar cane in the whole area. You might only know some wealthy villages and you've got no idea what I'm on about. Beside some chili picking for 3 baht per kilo, there's nothing to make any money.

Again, I do not ask if somebody agrees with me or, not, it's completely irrelevant if people do, or not.

We have friends, a good source is a nurse in the birth section of a big hospital. Do you think that I pulled the rape story out of my ass?

There's enough proof that many kids get raped and therefore also a high pregnancy rate. Cops are usually never involved, they try to solve such a "problem" by wanting the preick to marry the daughter and pay Sinsod.

Your last sentence is scary to me. "Why would they want hot showers?" You can't be that naive, can you? Oh, they don't want to eat some frwesh seafood, because they never had the money for it. Do you get my point how stupid such a statement really is?

Why do you want a hot shower in winter? Oh, I forgot, you have the right to have hot showers and these poor suckers just don't need them.

I actually paint a picture that's too true to be good for me.I wish my points were all a bunch of lies, but I'm afraid they aren't.

Let's not be too negative about it. Morlam kills some pain. P.S. Noi is still single and I guess virgin. Aehh maybe.

Edited January 25, 2016 by lostinisaan

[KevinB]

Sutty - have you ever heard about the massacres of: 14th October 1973, 6th October 1976 and 18th May 1992 ??? Ever heard about the Long Marches and the hundreds of people from Isaan that died at those times? Do you think that people walked all the way from Isaan to Bangkok (often being beaten along the way by Police and Army) for nothing? - why not ask a few of your elder neighbours about 30 or 50 years ago. Understanding what happened in the past five decades might really help some of people posting on the "lethargy" noted by them in the Isaan population today and how it arose - a people subjugated and forced to accept their fate. OH maybe have a look at how the people of Isaan were treated during the Vietnam War when their Lao heritage made them suspect Communists.

In case you don't know some half a million people were evicted from there properties with the construction of the large dams in Isaan. Or do you believe that those massive dams (which you can visit) had no one living there before construction.

While you are talking to the old folk in your area - best you hear it from locals not some smart arse like me posting on ThaiVisa - ask them about what happen to the forests in the area they visited as a kid - ask them about how important those natural areas were to the variety they had in their family diet back then. Ask them if they can show you where there used to be sweet water springs when they were kids. Ask your neighbours how much water used to be in the well and when did it start to get brackish.

I can recommend a couple of other excellent books - they are available outside the country and can even be found in some good provincial libraries in UK. "Pulping the South, Industrial Tree Plantations and the World Paper Economy" by Larry Lohmann and Ricardo Carrere published by Zed Books Ltd in 1996. Or a collection of academic papers co-edited by Lohmann - "The Struggle for Land and the Fate of the Forests." By the way Larry spent decades in Thailand in Isaan in the 1980's and actually was forced to leave after mysteriously eco-minded community based activists started to get murdered. The paper industry is big and very powerful - why not Google it and read about it.

Why not jump in you car and travel to what is left of the Huanamput Forest in Burinam - this is a once famous forest of between 8 to 10,000 acres of valuable hardwood before most of it got turned into a Eucalyptus plantain - despite the heroic stand by a group of Buddhist monks (also worth reading about).

Open you eyes as you drive through Isaan how come there are so many BIG Eucalyptus tree considering that they are indigenous to an island called Australia - maybe they flew here on Quantas - met a pretty Isaan girl and decided to stay. Hey Sutty how to you think that almost every bit of "forest" on the top of most hills in your area have got all the same sort of trees planted in straight rows.

Have a chat with some old folk, have a good look and then admit that history happened even in your part of Isaan.