Netanyahu says UN chief Ban Ki-moon 'encouraging terror'

[dexterm]

This says it all, could have used Gandhi as an example too.

Off topic deflection. The OP subject concerns Ban Ki Moon's comment on the 50 year Israeli occupation of the West Bank, not Tibet nor 1940s India.

Edited January 28, 2016 by dexterm

[Chicog]

No one in the entire eorld is calling this an invasion because it's not. It's Israel building new homes on Israel land.

They don't call it an invasion because the invasion was years ago.

They call it an "occupation".

It is *not* Israeli land, but they are attempting to make it so by settling on it.

Although technically, you could call it a very, very slow invasion I suppose.

[Jingthing]

It is occupied land, not Israeli land.

You do realize there has never in history been an independent nation called Palestine, yeah? You can call it occupation if you like, fair enough, but what we're really talking about here are contested borders, a situation going on in so many countries now, but the Israel demonization ideology is pathologically obsessed with Israel and only Israel for reasons you don't need to be an Einstein to figure out.

Of course, personally (not that it matters) I support a real two state solution but there is lack of political will to do that on both sides.

[stevenl]

It is occupied land, not Israeli land.

You do realize there has never in history been an independent nation called Palestine, yeah? You can call it occupation if you like, fair enough, but what we're really talking about here are contested borders, a situation going on in so many countries now, but the Israel demonization ideology is pathologically obsessed with Israel and only Israel for reasons you don't need to be an Einstein to figure out.

Of course, personally (not that it matters) I support a real two state solution but there is lack of political will to do that on both sides.

Doesn't really matter how you want to call it, those lands are not Israeli lands, so Israel is occupying lands that are not theirs.

Your references to and outright accusations of Jew hatred/anti semitism or however you want to call it are really tiring, unjustified and not working. Same as in the real world, the outside of TV world, they have stopped working and Israel has been losing nearly all its support over the years.

[dexterm]

It is occupied land, not Israeli land.

You do realize there has never in history been an independent nation called Palestine, yeah? You can call it occupation if you like, fair enough, but what we're really talking about here are contested borders, a situation going on in so many countries now, but the Israel demonization ideology is pathologically obsessed with Israel and only Israel for reasons you don't need to be an Einstein to figure out.

Of course, personally (not that it matters) I support a real two state solution but there is lack of political will to do that on both sides.

Well, there is now.

In 2016 over 70% of the world's countries recognize the State of Palestine, the Palestinian flag is flying outside the UN, and now Palestinian passports will be issued. All peaceful steps in the right direction.

Let's look to the future, not red herrings from the past.

[Jingthing]

It is occupied land, not Israeli land.

You do realize there has never in history been an independent nation called Palestine, yeah? You can call it occupation if you like, fair enough, but what we're really talking about here are contested borders, a situation going on in so many countries now, but the Israel demonization ideology is pathologically obsessed with Israel and only Israel for reasons you don't need to be an Einstein to figure out.

Of course, personally (not that it matters) I support a real two state solution but there is lack of political will to do that on both sides.

Doesn't really matter how you want to call it, those lands are not Israeli lands, so Israel is occupying lands that are not theirs.

Your references to and outright accusations of Jew hatred/anti semitism or however you want to call it are really tiring, unjustified and not working. Same as in the real world, the outside of TV world, they have stopped working and Israel has been losing nearly all its support over the years.

There is no state of Palestine, not in reality, so they aren't "Palestine" lands either. If you actually believe that the BDS movement and the Israel demonization movement aren't deeply infected with Jew hatred, well, we'll just never agree. The evidence is too rampant. I don't know about individual people, but talking about these movements.

Here's a clue, suppporters of "Palestine" -- if you go to a demo and they start to chant:

Palestine Will Be Free, From the River to the Sea

-- do you chant along with that pro genocidal chant?

-- do you walk away in disgust that you are marching with people favoring horrific racist mass murder?

-- do you confront the crowd, and say, stop it!

You know, we're not stupid. Leaders of the BDS movement have openly admitted they often talk one game for PR but deep down they do not accept the existence of Israel in ANY borders. Their obvious intention is to end Israel, the same intention as Hamas, and Iran. Intentions matter. So do capabilities.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Jingthing

[stevenl]

It is occupied land, not Israeli land.

You do realize there has never in history been an independent nation called Palestine, yeah? You can call it occupation if you like, fair enough, but what we're really talking about here are contested borders, a situation going on in so many countries now, but the Israel demonization ideology is pathologically obsessed with Israel and only Israel for reasons you don't need to be an Einstein to figure out.

Of course, personally (not that it matters) I support a real two state solution but there is lack of political will to do that on both sides.

Doesn't really matter how you want to call it, those lands are not Israeli lands, so Israel is occupying lands that are not theirs.

Your references to and outright accusations of Jew hatred/anti semitism or however you want to call it are really tiring, unjustified and not working. Same as in the real world, the outside of TV world, they have stopped working and Israel has been losing nearly all its support over the years.

There is no state of Palestine, not in reality, so they aren't "Palestine" lands either. If you actually believe that the BDS movement and the Israel demonization movement aren't deeply infected with Jew hatred, well, we'll just never agree. The evidence is too rampant. I don't know about individual people, but talking about these movements.

Here's a clue, suppporters of "Palestine" -- if you go to a demo and they start to chant:

Palestine Will Be Free, From the River to the Sea

-- do you chant along with that pro genocidal chant?

-- do you walk away in disgust that you are marching with people favoring horrific racist mass murder?

-- do you confront the crowd, and say, stop it!

You know, we're not stupid. Leaders of the BDS movement have openly admitted they often talk one game for PR but deep down they do not accept the existence of Israel in ANY borders. Their obvious intention is to end Israel, the same intention as Hamas, and Iran. Intentions matter. So do capabilities.

We're talking Ban Ki Moon here, not the BDS movement, so stop distracting from the subject at hand. Unless Ban Ki Moon is also part of the Israel demonization movement.

Who is 'we' BTW in 'we're not stupid'?

[Inn Between]

It is occupied land, not Israeli land.

You do realize there has never in history been an independent nation called Palestine, yeah? You can call it occupation if you like, fair enough, but what we're really talking about here are contested borders, a situation going on in so many countries now, but the Israel demonization ideology is pathologically obsessed with Israel and only Israel for reasons you don't need to be an Einstein to figure out.

Of course, personally (not that it matters) I support a real two state solution but there is lack of political will to do that on both sides.

I'm not going to get into a debate, but I have to comment that it's quite noticeable that you make 100s of posts in defense of Israel, and in those posts you seem to rely on 2 main thoughts -- "that there never in history has been a country called Palestine" So what! Who cares about the scripting of a name in historical records, assuming what you say is true? The world recognizes it by that name to be an unfortunate victim to unrelenting encroachment of what is rightfully their land. The world sees it as a victim of crime by an rogue and very aggressive neighbour. The world does not see Israel as a victim, yet that's that card always played by its government and supporters.

Your other main statement is that Israel is "demonized". Do you really think people have chosen to criticize and reject Israel's actions for arbitrary reasons or antisemitism? I don't. And to many, some Jews included, there's a distinction between Zionism and Judaism. No, I don't think Israel is being demonized -- it's being rightly criticized.

That's the impression I get.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Inn Between

[Jingthing]

Criticism is legitimate.

Demonization isn't.

Criticism of any country is normal.

Israel demonization and Jew hatred are closely linked.

I don't think Ban Ki Moon is an Israel demonizer.

On the topic, I think Netanyahu has overreacted, as he often does.

Don't assume that people who support the existence and defense of Israel and recognize the evil infection of Jew hatred in the BDS and Israel demonization movements agree with every Israeli government policy or every utterance from every Israeli leader. Duh.

Your personal comment about me is BS, I don't mention that Palestine was never a country very often at all (it wasn't though). Maybe do your homework better before posting.

BTW, Jewish people in Israel are INDIGENOUS.

Look at the HISTORY.

Anti-Zionist means opposing the existence of the state of Israel in any borders, in the modern context.

There are over 50 Muslim and/or Arab majority nations.

It's funny where are the "Anti-Zionists" opposing THEIR existence!

Yes, "anti-Zionists" SPECIFICALLY are obsessed with JEWISH PEOPLE not having the right to political self determination.

Don't be deceived, the clear intention of the Palestinian Arab identity political movement is to end Israel in any borders. They can't do that now and it's Israel's every right to make sure they can NEVER do that.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Jingthing

[Chicog]

It is occupied land, not Israeli land.

You do realize there has never in history been an independent nation called Palestine, yeah? You can call it occupation if you like, fair enough, but what we're really talking about here are contested borders, a situation going on in so many countries now, but the Israel demonization ideology is pathologically obsessed with Israel and only Israel for reasons you don't need to be an Einstein to figure out.

Of course, personally (not that it matters) I support a real two state solution but there is lack of political will to do that on both sides.

It would be nice if both parties submitted to binding arbitration at the ICJ.

I'm sure they both have their reasons for not doing so.

Ultimately, doing nothing is favouring the Israeli side.

[Chicog]

Don't be deceived, the clear intention of the Palestinian Arab identity political movement is to end Israel in any borders. They can't do that now and it's Israel's every right to make sure they can NEVER do that.

If they were simply defending their own borders, I'd agree.

But they're not, are they?

They are indulging in a campaign of slow expansionism with the intention of purging the Palestinians.

[GeorgesAbitbol]

Israel doesn't want 1 state, otherwise in 2 generations there will be more arabs than jews...and Bibi is quite afraid of that.

Now to have two states you also need to stop stealing the land and settle, and encourage settlements and continue to think you can do that without any problems from the other side.

The fact that so many people criticize Israel is because, as they repeat, they are a democracy and therefore have to power to elect a government which will stop those settlements and land stealing...so far it didn't happen

The voice of the people in a democracy at work. Like I said there is only 1 state.

Do you think that Thailand will let the southern part sucede just because they want to?

Thailand and Israel are completely differents situations

Not so different but you can have your opinion.

Yes really?

Thailand was before an English Mandate and gave unilaterally to create a country?

Do most of the Thais come from countries around the world with only common point being a religion and a language?

Do they have common sacred places?

Did they settle around then inside the land the separatists ask for now?

The only common point between Israel/Palestine and Thailand/south is that one side is muslim.

[JingerBen]

Criticism is legitimate.

Demonization isn't.

Criticism of any country is normal.

Israel demonization and Jew hatred are closely linked.

I don't think Ban Ki Moon is an Israel demonizer.

On the topic, I think Netanyahu has overreacted, as he often does.

Don't assume that people who support the existence and defense of Israel and recognize the evil infection of Jew hatred in the BDS and Israel demonization movements agree with every Israeli government policy or every utterance from every Israeli leader. Duh.

Your personal comment about me is BS, I don't mention that Palestine was never a country very often at all (it wasn't though). Maybe do your homework better before posting.

BTW, Jewish people in Israel are INDIGENOUS.

Look at the HISTORY.

Anti-Zionist means opposing the existence of the state of Israel in any borders, in the modern context.

There are over 50 Muslim and/or Arab majority nations.

It's funny where are the "Anti-Zionists" opposing THEIR existence!

Yes, "anti-Zionists" SPECIFICALLY are obsessed with JEWISH PEOPLE not having the right to political self determination.

Don't be deceived, the clear intention of the Palestinian Arab identity political movement is to end Israel in any borders. They can't do that now and it's Israel's every right to make sure they can NEVER do that.

Yes, good idea, look at the history.

You will learn that the Emperor Hadrian expelled the Jews from Roman Judea in 135 AD and renamed the province Syria Palaestina.

It has remained Palestine through numerous wars and occupations until the present day.

You can see its flag flying in front of the UN headquarters in New York.

[GeorgesAbitbol]

Curious to see how some of you who think that criticizing Israel settlements is racist, see the Shalom Achshav movement, or so called Peace now movement.

Maybe they are antisemitic Jews...who knows....

[Jingthing]

Curious to see how some of you who think that criticizing Israel settlements is racist, see the Shalom Achshav movement, or so called Peace now movement.

Maybe they are antisemitic Jews...who knows....

Please, please stop the lying.

Nobody has said criticism of Israel government policies means you are a Jew hater.

Talking about Israel DEMONIZATION. Those two things are not the same things.

Also if you go to a "Free Palestine" rally and chant along with "Palestine, River to the Sea" those people are openly supporting mass genocide of Jewish people. Yet you hear that chant in pretty much every pro-Palestinian rally. That is very, very telling. That's not normal criticism of a nation's policies. That is demonization to the degree of going out on the streets and favoring genocide. You would think such people would be ashamed and cover their faces ... though many do wear those trendy scarves.

Anyway, I don't see a big problem with what Ban Ki-Moon said. Obviously building more west bank settlements is not helpful but neither is knifing and car ramming innocent Jewish people. If the Palestinian leaders think inciting such terrorism and naming streets after terrorist "martyrs" is bringing them closer to peace and coexistence with Israel, they're tripping.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Jingthing

[Steely Dan]

This says it all, could have used Gandhi as an example too.

Off topic deflection. The OP subject concerns Ban Ki Moon's comment on the 50 year Israeli occupation of the West Bank, not Tibet nor 1940s India.

Rubbish! Peaceful resistance to perceived injustice was advocated by the Dali Lama and Gandhi, this challenges Ban Ki Moons assertion that terrorism is somehow natural. The UN has ceased any pretense of impartiality long ago and their attitude makes peace even further away because there is no incentive for Palestinian leaders to stop incitement, whilst Israelis will dig their heels in. Hertzog just conceded there are no current prospects for a two state solution, effectively aligning his attitude with that of Netanyahu.

[TuskegeeBen]

Correction to Post #50: " FYI ~ Sigh! First, the Palestinians are not Arabs. Secondly, a huge majority constituency of Palestinians are (in fact) Coptic Christians, not Muslims. Thirdly, the Jewish people (Sabra included) are not Semites, thus, the mental states of being either anti-Semitic, or anti-Jewish are not synonymous.

[dexterm]

This says it all, could have used Gandhi as an example too.

Off topic deflection. The OP subject concerns Ban Ki Moon's comment on the 50 year Israeli occupation of the West Bank, not Tibet nor 1940s India.

Rubbish! Peaceful resistance to perceived injustice was advocated by the Dali Lama and Gandhi, this challenges Ban Ki Moons assertion that terrorism is somehow natural. The UN has ceased any pretense of impartiality long ago and their attitude makes peace even further away because there is no incentive for Palestinian leaders to stop incitement, whilst Israelis will dig their heels in. Hertzog just conceded there are no current prospects for a two state solution, effectively aligning his attitude with that of Netanyahu.

You are misquoting Ban Ki moon and deliberately muddying the waters.

He said in the OP

"Referring to the Palestinians, Mr Ban said it was human nature for oppressed peoples to react to occupation."

[TuskegeeBen]

The Netanyahu constituency really doesn't care how many innocent Jewish people are put in harms way, resulting from the actions of the Knesset. He is financially backed by the most powerful people on this planet. The ordinary Jewish people, who lose their lives' in the process, are classified as expendables, and collateral damage labeled as 'martyrs", for news media propaganda purposes.

The flip-side of that coin, are the childishly behaving Palestinians themselves (remembering the Munich Olympics debacle, of 1972), who have a penchant for cutting off their own noses, to spite their faces. After nearly 70-years, on the "losing" side of the conflict, one would think the Palestinian leadership would have devised a more intelligent "common sense" strategy by now. Duh!

Edited January 28, 2016 by TuskegeeBen

[MadDog2020]

Which story is a lie? The OP? Whatever, it's quite a claim, and one that you back only with opinion.

The majority of Palestinians want an end to the occupation of their land and cessation of continued land theft. THAT is inarguable.

Leaving Gaza didn't bring peace because Israel didn't stop occupying it!!! By legal definition, it maintained it's occupation by it's blockade. Stop with the strawman silliness and the ingenuous deflection.

"River to the sea" I believe is a quote from the Likud charter, referring to the Jordan River ..... which is not quite as drastic as the original Zionist "river" being the Euphrates!!!

OF COURSE it's possible to separate racism from Israel criticism! What a hateful and odious accusation! You are implying that I, and many members here are racist. Quit with that nastiness, please. You have been warned before.

It not their land. It's Israel.

The problem for Israel is that most sane people, many world leaders such as Ban ki Moon, the Swedish and American ambassadors to Israel and the majority of the world's countries can now see through the great Israeli hoax: that they play the victim when they are in fact the aggressor.
The conflict is perpetuated by a hardcore of fanatical Zionists and nutjob US Evangelicals who believe that a popular work of fiction,the bible, is some sort of real estate title deed and refuse to join the 21st century. They are doing the future of Israel a great disservice.

If this was not Israel land then the world would be calling it an invasion. Like Russia taking over parts of the Ukraine.

No one in the entire eorld is calling this an invasion because it's not. It's Israel building new homes on Israel land.

It is occupied land, not Israeli land.

Occupied for 50 years or so. Me thinks that is now Israel land.

[MadDog2020]

Sorry thread full,

MadDog wrote..

No one in the entire eorld is calling this an invasion because it's not. It's Israel building new homes on Israel land.

Ban Ki Moon is..

"Ban went on to say that Palestinian frustration is growing and that, "as oppressed peoples have demonstrated throughout the ages, it is human nature to react to occupation,"

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35414822

If it's Israeli land could you please tell us where Israel's borders are or a single country in the world (other than Israel) that recognizes Israeli ownership of the West Bank.

Like I said, no one in the entire world is calling it an invasion. If it is not Israeli ownership the world would up in arms about this. I don't need to tell you where the border is, just look where the Israeli government is building homes. No country in the world is going to let another country build homes on their land.

You are trying to argue a point that even the Palestinians aren't arguing about. They know this land doesn't belong to them. They are simply wishing on a star. They can't even come up with a cohesive and comprehensive arguement or plan to bring to the table.

[dexterm]

The Netanyahu constituency really doesn't care how many innocent Jewish people are put in harms way, resulting from the actions of the Knesset. He is financially backed by the most powerful people on this planet. The ordinary Jewish people, who lose their lives' in the process, are classified as expendables, and collateral damage labeled as 'martyrs", for news media propaganda purposes.

The flip-side of that coin, are the childishly behaving Palestinians themselves (remembering the Munich Olympics debacle, of 1972), who have a penchant for cutting off their own noses, to spite their faces. After nearly 70-years, on the "losing" side of the conflict, one would think the Palestinian leadership would have devised a more intelligent "common sense" strategy by now. Duh!

I disagree with some parts of your synopsis, but what is your realistic peace plan/strategy for an end to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict?

[TuskegeeBen]

World sympathy for the Palestinians flew out the window in the 1970s. Those blokes managed to turn-off, even their staunchest supporters (myself included), with all that airplane high-jacking crap, and their cocky, antagonistic attitudes. I've worked with Palestinians, in the U.S. corporate world. On the average, they (Palestinians) are truly an impossible bunch of people to get along with. The average Israeli, on the other hand, is a far more delightful person to inter-act with, by comparison.

Edited January 28, 2016 by TuskegeeBen

[TuskegeeBen]

The Netanyahu constituency really doesn't care how many innocent Jewish people are put in harms way, resulting from the actions of the Knesset. He is financially backed by the most powerful people on this planet. The ordinary Jewish people, who lose their lives' in the process, are classified as expendables, and collateral damage labeled as 'martyrs", for news media propaganda purposes.

The flip-side of that coin, are the childishly behaving Palestinians themselves (remembering the Munich Olympics debacle, of 1972), who have a penchant for cutting off their own noses, to spite their faces. After nearly 70-years, on the "losing" side of the conflict, one would think the Palestinian leadership would have devised a more intelligent "common sense" strategy by now. Duh!

I disagree with some parts of your synopsis, but what is your realistic peace plan/strategy for an end to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict?

I couldn't care less, if you disagreed with all of my "synopsis". I write only about what I have personally lived and experienced, on the ground. So, whatever "plan" that I might devise, certainly would not be posted to this forum. Again, the Palestinians need to just "grow-up" for a change, to reality. Capiche?

Edited January 28, 2016 by TuskegeeBen

[dexterm]

Sorry thread full,

MadDog wrote..

No one in the entire eorld is calling this an invasion because it's not. It's Israel building new homes on Israel land.

Ban Ki Moon is..

"Ban went on to say that Palestinian frustration is growing and that, "as oppressed peoples have demonstrated throughout the ages, it is human nature to react to occupation,"

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35414822

If it's Israeli land could you please tell us where Israel's borders are or a single country in the world (other than Israel) that recognizes Israeli ownership of the West Bank.

Like I said, no one in the entire world is calling it an invasion. If it is not Israeli ownership the world would up in arms about this. I don't need to tell you where the border is, just look where the Israeli government is building homes. No country in the world is going to let another country build homes on their land.

You are trying to argue a point that even the Palestinians aren't arguing about. They know this land doesn't belong to them. They are simply wishing on a star. They can't even come up with a cohesive and comprehensive arguement or plan to bring to the table.

Well, I don't know what you would call it other than "invasion" unless you think the existing resident Palestinians invited a foreign army to come and occupy them and build colonies there?

The Israelis are building colonies on illegally occupied land which is exactly what Ban ki Moon [and the US ambassador to Isreal Daniel Shapiro] were pointing out in the OP.

However much you may wish it or dream it or high school debate it with mythological technicalities which are meaningless to real live 4.5 milllion Palestinian refugees, the problem is not going away. It is only going to exacerbate as the Palestinian population increases and the illegal Israeli colonies expand. There may come a point of no return for Israel when they find themselves in a one state solution, having to accommodate 2.5 million West Bank Palestinians, then 1.8 m Gazan Palestinians, then ultimately via marriage and family reunion 9 million Palestinians in the entire diaspora. Don't make sense for a Jewsh state does it?

The Palestinians have been protesting against their occupation daily and often being beaten and murdered by Zionist colonists and the IDF for the last 50 and more years. How do you propose they should register their complaint against being occupied?

Everyone knows the basic 2 state peace plan acceptable to the Palestinians. It's been on the table for decades.

100% land swaps for occupied land since 67.

A deal over Jerusalem in recognition that it is sacred to 3 not one religion.

Compensation for Palestinian [and Jewish refugees..my addendum].

In return full diplomatic recognition and permanent borders by all Arab countries plus Iran (trade, tourism, ambassadors...the works).

Sounds pretty reasonable to me. What's the problem?

Edited January 28, 2016 by dexterm

[TuskegeeBen]

Sorry thread full,

MadDog wrote..

No one in the entire eorld is calling this an invasion because it's not. It's Israel building new homes on Israel land.

Ban Ki Moon is..

"Ban went on to say that Palestinian frustration is growing and that, "as oppressed peoples have demonstrated throughout the ages, it is human nature to react to occupation,"

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35414822

If it's Israeli land could you please tell us where Israel's borders are or a single country in the world (other than Israel) that recognizes Israeli ownership of the West Bank.

Like I said, no one in the entire world is calling it an invasion. If it is not Israeli ownership the world would up in arms about this. I don't need to tell you where the border is, just look where the Israeli government is building homes. No country in the world is going to let another country build homes on their land.

You are trying to argue a point that even the Palestinians aren't arguing about. They know this land doesn't belong to them. They are simply wishing on a star. They can't even come up with a cohesive and comprehensive arguement or plan to bring to the table.

The Palestinians spend more time fighting among themselves. The former PLO leader Yassar Arafat's worse enemies were among his own people, that he spent his entire lifetime fighting for. So, go figure the logic of that.

Edited January 28, 2016 by TuskegeeBen

[TuskegeeBen]

Sorry thread full,

MadDog wrote..

No one in the entire eorld is calling this an invasion because it's not. It's Israel building new homes on Israel land.

Ban Ki Moon is..

"Ban went on to say that Palestinian frustration is growing and that, "as oppressed peoples have demonstrated throughout the ages, it is human nature to react to occupation,"

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35414822

If it's Israeli land could you please tell us where Israel's borders are or a single country in the world (other than Israel) that recognizes Israeli ownership of the West Bank.

Like I said, no one in the entire world is calling it an invasion. If it is not Israeli ownership the world would up in arms about this. I don't need to tell you where the border is, just look where the Israeli government is building homes. No country in the world is going to let another country build homes on their land.

You are trying to argue a point that even the Palestinians aren't arguing about. They know this land doesn't belong to them. They are simply wishing on a star. They can't even come up with a cohesive and comprehensive arguement or plan to bring to the table.

Well, I don't know what you would call it other than "invasion" unless you think the existing resident Palestinians invited a foreign army to come and occupy them and build colonies there?

The Israelis are building colonies on illegally occupied land which is exactly what Ban ki Moon [and the US ambassador to Isreal Daniel Shapiro] were pointing out in the OP.

However much you may wish it or dream it or high school debate it with mytholigical technicalities which are meaningless to real live 4.5 milllion Palestinian refuges, the problem is not going away. It is only going to exacerbate as the Palestinian population increases and the illegal Israeli colonies expand. There may come a point of no return for Israel when they find themselves in a one state solution.

The Palestinians have been protesting against their occupation daily and often being beaten and murdered by Zionist colonists and the IDF for the last 50 and more years. How do you propose they should register their complaint against being occupied?

Everyone knows the basic 2 state peace plan acceptable to the Palestinians. It's been on the table for decades.

100% land swaps for occupied land since 67.

A deal over Jerusalem in recognition that it is sacred to 3 not one religion.

Compensation for Palestinian [and Jewish refugees..my addendum].

In return full diplomatic recognition and permanent borders by all Arab countries plus Iran (trade, tourism, ambassadors...the works).

Sounds pretty reasonable to me. What's the problem?

In the real world, right is always on the side of Might! The only sensible strategy Palestinians can employ, to regain global support of their cause, is to just STOP their counter-productive protest behavior, and violence against individual Israeli citizens, then just keep quiet, and be still, for a change. The axiom "kill them (the Israelis) with kindness" comes to mind.

Edited January 28, 2016 by TuskegeeBen

[dexterm]

Sorry thread full,

MadDog wrote..

No one in the entire eorld is calling this an invasion because it's not. It's Israel building new homes on Israel land.

Ban Ki Moon is..

"Ban went on to say that Palestinian frustration is growing and that, "as oppressed peoples have demonstrated throughout the ages, it is human nature to react to occupation,"

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35414822

If it's Israeli land could you please tell us where Israel's borders are or a single country in the world (other than Israel) that recognizes Israeli ownership of the West Bank.

Like I said, no one in the entire world is calling it an invasion. If it is not Israeli ownership the world would up in arms about this. I don't need to tell you where the border is, just look where the Israeli government is building homes. No country in the world is going to let another country build homes on their land.

You are trying to argue a point that even the Palestinians aren't arguing about. They know this land doesn't belong to them. They are simply wishing on a star. They can't even come up with a cohesive and comprehensive arguement or plan to bring to the table.

The Palestinians spend more time fighting among themselves. The former PLO leader Yassar Arafat's worse enemies were among his own people, that he spent his entire lifetime fighting for. So, go figure the logic of that.

I disagree with your argument, but..

Just because leadership may be incompetent doesn't make occupation justifiable.

The present Israeli government is a case in point. Isrealis are nowhere nearer to peace than they were 50 or even 100 years ago.

Time for a nudge of reality from the outside world such as from Ban Ki Moon.

[TuskegeeBen]

Which story is a lie? The OP? Whatever, it's quite a claim, and one that you back only with opinion.

The majority of Palestinians want an end to the occupation of their land and cessation of continued land theft. THAT is inarguable.

Leaving Gaza didn't bring peace because Israel didn't stop occupying it!!! By legal definition, it maintained it's occupation by it's blockade. Stop with the strawman silliness and the ingenuous deflection.

"River to the sea" I believe is a quote from the Likud charter, referring to the Jordan River ..... which is not quite as drastic as the original Zionist "river" being the Euphrates!!!

OF COURSE it's possible to separate racism from Israel criticism! What a hateful and odious accusation! You are implying that I, and many members here are racist. Quit with that nastiness, please. You have been warned before.

It not their land. It's Israel.

The problem for Israel is that most sane people, many world leaders such as Ban ki Moon, the Swedish and American ambassadors to Israel and the majority of the world's countries can now see through the great Israeli hoax: that they play the victim when they are in fact the aggressor.

The conflict is perpetuated by a hardcore of fanatical Zionists and nutjob US Evangelicals who believe that a popular work of fiction,the bible, is some sort of real estate title deed and refuse to join the 21st century. They are doing the future of Israel a great disservice.

If this was not Israel land then the world would be calling it an invasion. Like Russia taking over parts of the Ukraine.

No one in the entire eorld is calling this an invasion because it's not. It's Israel building new homes on Israel land.

It is occupied land, not Israeli land.

Occupied for 50 years or so. Me thinks that is now Israel land.

No! Its big gun Israel, just displacing Palestinians again.

[dexterm]

Sorry thread full...

TuskegeeBen wrote

In the real world, right is always on the side of Might! The only sensible strategy Palestinians can employ, to regain global support of their cause, is to just STOP their counter-productive protest behavior, and violence against individual Israeli citizens, then just keep quiet, and be still, for a change. The axiom "kill them (the Israelis) with kindness" comes to mind.I disagree. It may have worked for Genghis Khan but hopefully we live in more enlightened times. If every more powerful nation invaded its neighbor with impunity, where would we be?

I disagree. It may have worked for Genghis Khan but hopefully we live in more enlightened times. If every more powerful nation in the 21st century invaded its neighbor with impunity, where would we be?

So you are advocating the next time one of a Palestinian's loved ones on his own land is gunned down by the IDF or by a fanatical Zionist colonist to "just keep quiet, and be still for a change."

I see your point of view.

Edited January 28, 2016 by dexterm