Sanders transforms into contender, still pitches revolution

[Jingthing]

Well, I don't agree with you. There is some strong material in that to smear him. Don't forget he's a Jew and would lose about 10 to 25 percent of potential voters just based on that. On top of the socialist label which he owns, and the Jew label which he is based on ethnicity, his expressions on "faith" are very close to atheism and most Americans are very negative on atheists and don't want people they perceive as atheists (or atheistic Jews) anywhere near high offices outside of liberal zones like parts of California, Massachusetts, etc.. That smear material supports that "Godless" line of attack.

You really don't get it. Hillary needed to tread lightly with personal attacks on Sanders because she needs a good portion of his supporters when she is nominated. She could win and she will win without needing to get that nasty, and that's a good thing. The republicans would release it all because they would have no such concerns.

He is not going to be nominated, deal with the reality, and in my opinion that's a good thing, because he would have lost badly to Trump if he was. Hillary will beat Trump and like her or not, he is leading a very dangerous American fascist movement that needs to be defeated. Hillary can do that. Sanders never could.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Jingthing

[up2u2]

JT Bernie will not be nominated but that is more about delegate votes being pre purchased by Hillary. The issues mentioned really only play out in the redneck states in the south and Texas. Trump vs Bernie the general election polls have never agreed with you.

[sirineou]

JT Bernie will not be nominated but that is more about delegate votes being pre purchased by Hillary. The issues mentioned really only play out in the redneck states in the south and Texas. Trump vs Bernie the general election polls have never agreed with you.

exactly the same things were said about Obama and the fact that America was not ready for a black president, or perhaps can be said for Hillary and and the percentage of votes she will loose because of her gender. The ones who decide on those bases are already voting for Trump.

I Think America is tired of the BS

[Jingthing]

JT Bernie will not be nominated but that is more about delegate votes being pre purchased by Hillary. The issues mentioned really only play out in the redneck states in the south and Texas. Trump vs Bernie the general election polls have never agreed with you.

I never believed the polls. We'll never know, will we? Time for the Berners to move on and work with the side of sanity to stop the Trump fascists.

[jmd8800]

Something to consider:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/05/bernie_sanders_electability_argument_is_still_a_myth.html

I know Bernies have tried to sell the idea that Sanders would be stronger against Trump than Hillary. I never believed that. I was thinking about the socialist label being red bait which would work with most Americans.

But I didn't even know about the stuff in the article.

Now Hillary does have strong negatives and scandals including association with Bill Clinton scandals. But all of that is well baked in and not likely to do any further damage.

Bernie, on the other hand, is a fresh target and that stuff would definitely hurt him a lot.

JT..this is simply a tired argument. If anything this election should show everyone that the American public is tired of business as usual. And the age old argumants just don't fly anymore. It shows in the rise of both Trump and Sanders. Of course many will continue to ride the old 2 party paradigm lesser of two evils.

Personally I would rather vote my conscience and watch as the US crumbles than to continue on the path we are on today, which is the demise of the empire ... opps I mean republic.... anyway in my view.

Bernie won't fix it. Hillary is more of the same. Trump is populism on some very dark steroids.

If you wish to continue America's domestic/foreign policy of the last 40 or so years be my guest ... go vote for Hillary. I believe America is absolutely the most evil entity on the planet today. And she has been a prime player for many years. And let me qualify that evil. America is a hollowed out democracy run by the corporate state, or shall we say the 'militarty-industrial-banking-intelligence-media' complex.

There are 3 parties in the USA: 1)Republican 2)Democrat 3) Capitalists

Two you can vote for and the one that runs the show.

It is going to be a long hot summer.

[Jingthing]

Vote against the greatest evil. Trump.

[jmd8800]

Vote against the greatest evil. Trump.

I see a lot of time and effort put behind this response.

[Jingthing]

Vote against the greatest evil. Trump.

I see a lot of time and effort put behind this response.

Sometimes politics ain't brain surgery, dude.

Anyway, this thread is basically obsolete now.

Sanders lost and the focus now needs to be on beating Trump.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Jingthing

[up2u2]

Vote against the greatest evil. Trump.

I see a lot of time and effort put behind this response.

Sometimes politics ain't brain surgery, dude.

Anyway, this thread is basically obsolete now.

Sanders lost and the focus now needs to be on beating Trump.

Please JT the towel has not been thrown in yet. Can't we just take a moment in the interim to just contemplate what could have been. A future to believe in. A fairer more equitable deal for Americans. Affordable health care an investment in youth education, a living wage, returning jobs and investment back to America, a reduction in external warfare and focus on repairing infrastructure, a strong resilient well paid middle class, voter reform and repeal of 'citizens united'.

[Jingthing]

Are you having a laugh? One example -- Do you think Hillary Clinton likes Citizen's United? She will put on justices to overturn it. Contrast to Trump. Wake up and go for the POSSIBLE.

Hillary Clinton Would Only Nominate Justices Who Favor Overturning Citizens United: Report

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/15/hillary-clinton-citizens-united_n_7293066.html

Edited May 4, 2016 by Jingthing

[CWMcMurray]

I definitely want Bernie to have the democratic nomination , but do agree that in order to get it he needs to beat Hillary with pledged delegates

No matter how I feel and the fact that I believe he would be a stronger candidate and a better president ... If the voters choose Hillary, I don't think Sanders should win by super delegates overturning voters desires

Although don't agree with the Super delegates coming out in support before convention in a hope that it will look like Sanders doesn't have a chance to try and influence voters

That being said Bernie desperately needs to keep pushing for majority in pledged delegates to get there

Now it is 1,683 Clinton to 1,362 Sanders

So still possible to get there but won't be easy

If Bernie continues to win Primaries , he still has a chance

As will then have a real case with super delegates if he has the majority of pledged delegates ... Otherwise, no chance and really no 'moral high ground ' to try and turn super delegates

[CWMcMurray]

Also in terms of Citizens United, don't think that will be any issue in general election

As Trump has also come out against Super PACs and so far this election, has been the biggest target and victim of Super PACs...

So no traction on that issue in general election

Also, now that Trump has the nod... And all the guff from Republicans that he isn't a real conservative ...and that he wouldn't put the 'right kind of judge' on The court..

Hopefully the Senate will go forward and give up or down vote on Obama's nomination

Even some conservatives calling for this now... So hopefully non issue

Non to mention it is the right thing to do.. No constitutional justification for waiting until the election

Leader of Repubs not saying they will do so, but this may change ..

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/conservatives-call-nomination-obama-s-supreme-court-nominee-garland-n567961

Edited May 5, 2016 by CWMcMurray

[sgtsabai]

DELETED JT, while I respect your opinion, you are wrong. Hillary is bad for the Democrat party bad for America and bad for the world, or what's left of it. Trump is a neo fascist that will destroy America even quicker than Hillary. You could give me 1,000,000 USD tax free and I wouldn't vote for either of them. Many are pushing hard for an independent or Green Party run for Bernie and while I don't think at this point it is feasible, months down the line who knows? Bernie supporters will not vote in mass for Hillary, in fact may not vote at all. No, they won't vote for the fascist but she won't get their vote. Unfortunately that will be a lost chance to regain the Senate and seats in the House. America has become an international joke, an embarrassment, albeit a very dangerous one. Hopefully the one good thing that may come out of this election debacle is the end of the Republican and Democrat Parties as we know them. I can see blue dawg corporate Democrats and "moderate" Republicans forming a new party, the right wackos currently running the clown show that is the Republican party left to their own destruction and the real Democrats forming a new/old progressive Democrat party. Maybe, just maybe next election there will be a real one.

Edited May 5, 2016 by seedy
discuss moderation

[hawker9000]

^ ^ ^ ^ ^

'Not a chance. Political parties run on money the way the MSM runs on the easily led. There'll always be "other parties" in the U.S., but they will remain small and at the margin. The most a candidate from one of these can hope for in the biggest races is spoiler status. And I'm not sure Hillary really even needs a spoiler ...

[MaxYakov]

Sanders - right man, wrong electorate

Wrong country. I can't say hemisphere because there are at least Canada and Venezuela.

[Inn Between]

... You could give me 1,000,000 USD tax free and I wouldn't vote for either of them....

Give me half that, and I'll vote for both of them.

[CWMcMurray]

^ ^ ^ ^ ^

'Not a chance. Political parties run on money the way the MSM runs on the easily led. There'll always be "other parties" in the U.S., but they will remain small and at the margin. The most a candidate from one of these can hope for in the biggest races is spoiler status. And I'm not sure Hillary really even needs a spoiler ...

Unfortunately true...

The way things are set up... With donors able to get around campaign finance by giving to the local state party ..

Who then funnel all funds to national party.. Who then dole it back out to those selected candidates as they see fit help ensure this...

As with the power of the purse, they can control all..

Even if super PACs are made illegal, this then just strengthens this other system..

Would need other real changes in campaign finance to actually change things in US

[sgtsabai]

How low can you go? https://jonathanturley.org/2016/05/06/poll-negative-views-of-trump-and-clinton-reach-historic-levels/

[thaihome]

How low can you go? https://jonathanturley.org/2016/05/06/poll-negative-views-of-trump-and-clinton-reach-historic-levels/

I don't that the political nomination process is to blame for two candidates with such high unfavorable ratings winning the nominations.

The problem is the divisive atmosphere that has been created by the conservative entertainment industry in the past 25 years.

An atmosphere that is largely based on half truths, conspiracy theories, and often outright lies, with Hillary a particular target.

Trump has created his own unfavorable ratings by catering to the conservative entertainment industry's core audience that a majority of the rational population sees for what it is.

TH

[up2u2]

Are you having a laugh? One example -- Do you think Hillary Clinton likes Citizen's United? She will put on justices to overturn it. Contrast to Trump. Wake up and go for the POSSIBLE.

Hillary Clinton Would Only Nominate Justices Who Favor Overturning Citizens United: Report

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/15/hillary-clinton-citizens-united_n_7293066.html

Hillary made that announcement right after Bernie went on the record that he would want it it writting from a new Justice that he would vote down Citizens United. I doubt those words would ever have been spoken by Hillary unless Bernie forced her to the Left and shamed her into it. She is up to her neck in Corporate donations / bribes.

[Jingthing]

You're wrong. The democratic party is strongly against Citizens United.

[up2u2]

Bernie has the opportunity now to actually form a credible new political Party in America. Use the support and momentum he has acquired from being a candidate. A real alternative to the two major Party system. I'll have to think up a name for Berrnie.

Social Reform Party

Social Independent Party

The Peoples Reform Party

Need a really cool logo too and an animal of some kind. Donkey and Elephant taken. I like those Squirrels I think they are cute.

[up2u2]

You're wrong. The democratic party is strongly against Citizens United.

Oh yeah right that's why Hillary has a massive Citizens United Superpac full of Corporate money sloshing around in it. Please JT Hillary is right on board with Corporate bribes. I am Left Wing and I think it absolutely wrong.

[Jingthing]

Sander's isn't that stupid.

That would hand it to Trump.

I know some of Sander's supporters are inflexible FANATICS, but Sanders is not.

Tough cookies.

He will endorse Hillary Clinton.

The alternative is too horrible to even imagine.

Ignoring Woody Allen's possibly creepy private life and whether you love his films or not, he speaks some good sense here:

http://forward.com/the-assimilator/340020/woody-allen-likes-bernie-sanders-but-endorses-hillary-clinton/

“I’m a Hillary fan,” he said, “I like Bernie very much. I think what he espouses is wonderful. But I think Hillary will get more done of what Bernie would like than Bernie could get done.”

Largely because Bernie lost so whether Bernie could have beat Trump and accomplish much of his agenda is at this stage ACADEMIC.

Edited May 6, 2016 by Jingthing

[up2u2]

I meant after the election not now. Hillary has already been preselected as the Democratic nominee to run for President. Bernie has always made political decisions based on the best interest of the citizens he represents and if he cannot get the nomination then he sure isn't going to hand over the citizens to someone like Trump.

[helpisgood]

You're wrong. The democratic party is strongly against Citizens United.

Oh yeah right that's why Hillary has a massive Citizens United Superpac full of Corporate money sloshing around in it. Please JT Hillary is right on board with Corporate bribes. I am Left Wing and I think it absolutely wrong.

Plus, let's not forget the lucrative Clinton Foundation.

The linked article below explains it better than I can. Basically, the post-Citizens United system has been so co-opted by the Clintons that they now have good reason to not have it overturned...at least not yet.

http://www.ibtimes.com/defense-clinton-democrats-promote-ideology-behind-citizens-united-1903669

Edited May 6, 2016 by helpisgood

[helpisgood]

Sander's isn't that stupid.

That would hand it to Trump.

I know some of Sander's supporters are inflexible FANATICS, but Sanders is not.

Tough cookies.

He will endorse Hillary Clinton.

The alternative is too horrible to even imagine.

Ignoring Woody Allen's possibly creepy private life and whether you love his films or not, he speaks some good sense here:

http://forward.com/the-assimilator/340020/woody-allen-likes-bernie-sanders-but-endorses-hillary-clinton/

“I’m a Hillary fan,” he said, “I like Bernie very much. I think what he espouses is wonderful. But I think Hillary will get more done of what Bernie would like than Bernie could get done.”

Largely because Bernie lost so whether Bernie could have beat Trump and accomplish much of his agenda is at this stage ACADEMIC.

It's not over. Much can still happen in politics.

You're quoting Woody Allen? That's something I'd hear in a Woody Allen comedy. I'd listen more intently about what he has to say about films, comedy and even the Knicks.

[hawker9000]

How low can you go? https://jonathanturley.org/2016/05/06/poll-negative-views-of-trump-and-clinton-reach-historic-levels/

I don't that the political nomination process is to blame for two candidates with such high unfavorable ratings winning the nominations.

The problem is the divisive atmosphere that has been created by the conservative entertainment industry in the past 25 years.

An atmosphere that is largely based on half truths, conspiracy theories, and often outright lies, with Hillary a particular target.

Trump has created his own unfavorable ratings by catering to the conservative entertainment industry's core audience that a majority of the rational population sees for what it is.

TH

"the conservative entertainment industry"

ROFLMAO. That's the first time I've ever heard anyone jumble those words together! Ludicrous and oxymoronic in the extreme.

[Jingthing]

Yes, I quoted Woody Allen. I can think of worse people to quote. Regardless of what you think about him personally, his statement makes sense.

[up2u2]

I like Bernie's wife too. She seems like a real genuine person. Not some trophy wife like Trump has. She comes across as an average working person. She always seems to be by Bernie's side too and is genuinely proud of him. A First Lady that can really relate to average normal hard working Americans. Maybe no Rock Stars, the wealthy elite and Corporate America swanning about the White House maybe working people get to enjoy the trappings of power for a change. Hey what about a dinner at the White House for undocumented immigrants invite the press along to tell their stories. Ah, I have a dream.

Toss out all the Corporate shills and 'lobbyists' with their bribe money out of the corridors of Congress with an order to 'shoot on sight' any that try to sneak back in. Instead fill the corridors with people with new ideas, promoters of social change, Black Live Matter, environmentalists, Greenpeace, educators, scientists, promoters of gun control, Corporate regulators.