Army chief blasts redshirt leaders over charter draft referendum

[mrrizzla]

Ok you believe this "corrupt military" will not eliminate corruption.

Please tell me Who will? The reds?

Why do you have "corrupt military" in quotations like it is a stupid statement?

Did you miss the park scandal? Several generals running for the hills and then the military investigated themselves to SHOCK HORROR find that nothing dodgy had gone on

If it had been the someone PTP related doing that you'd be hear drooling on your keyboard with rage.

And no, I am not a red shirt. I just get sick of people refusing to look at the bigger picture and blaming the bogey man in Dubai for all Thailand's ills.

So how are these fleeing generals in the park scandal any different Smedly?

As I mentioned above you make fantastic posts in the KT murder case thread. You know that stinks to high heaven and the real culprits have bribed all and sundry to stay out of prison. This is happening on the super corruption fighting general's watch...

I know you dislike Thaksin and with good reason. But can't you see the bigger picture here?

Edited February 9, 2016 by seedy
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[craigt3365]

Gee wiz, something that stops the red shirts, and their non elected non democratic leaders keeping a control on information - and they don't like it. What a surprise.

Normally, opposition candidates and spokes people, canvassers or anyone even daring to question the Shin party are dealt with - warned off, intimidated, assaulted or even murdered. The gang protects its turf. Bit different when it's the military.

New Mandala - accurate and unbiased, your having a laugh, Why not ask Yingluck, number 1 cousin, Chalerm or any of the former cabinet to comment?

They don't like anything that takes power away from them or the opportunity to get back in charge of the trough. Period.

The posters on here who love to pretend the Shins are remotely interesting in democracy and justice for the poor rather than proven liars who brag at how much they've increased their fortune whilst in government, and break the laws they don't like, are the ones who make any reasonable person want to puke.

ERE we go again. The ole "Shin in the wardrobe syndrome" with this mentality, Thailand will never get on its feet. HE IS GONE ! did'nt you know that !

Thaksin has never hidden in the wardrobe. He's still stirring things up, and sadly not gone.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Thaksin-brands-charter-draft-as-shoddy-30278803.html

Former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has branded the charter draft as “shoddy”, which would lead the country to become backward like Myanmar and ์North Korea.

[TheCruncher]

So defense students are allowed to campaign for the charter referendum, but the students of vocational colleges and other schools are arrested whenever they voice their opinion about the charter.

What could be wrong with that.

[TheCruncher]

Gee wiz, something that stops the red shirts, and their non elected non democratic leaders keeping a control on information - and they don't like it. What a surprise.

Normally, opposition candidates and spokes people, canvassers or anyone even daring to question the Shin party are dealt with - warned off, intimidated, assaulted or even murdered. The gang protects its turf. Bit different when it's the military.

New Mandala - accurate and unbiased, your having a laugh, Why not ask Yingluck, number 1 cousin, Chalerm or any of the former cabinet to comment?

They don't like anything that takes power away from them or the opportunity to get back in charge of the trough. Period.

The posters on here who love to pretend the Shins are remotely interesting in democracy and justice for the poor rather than proven liars who brag at how much they've increased their fortune whilst in government, and break the laws they don't like, are the ones who make any reasonable person want to puke.

ERE we go again. The ole "Shin in the wardrobe syndrome" with this mentality, Thailand will never get on its feet. HE IS GONE ! did'nt you know that !

Thaksin has never hidden in the wardrobe. He's still stirring things up, and sadly not gone.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Thaksin-brands-charter-draft-as-shoddy-30278803.html

Former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has branded the charter draft as “shoddy”, which would lead the country to become backward like Myanmar and ์North Korea.

I never like Thaksin for many reasons, but finally he seems to start talking the truth.

[smedly]

Ok you believe this "corrupt military" will not eliminate corruption.

Please tell me Who will? The reds?

Why do you have "corrupt military" in quotations like it is a stupid statement?

Did you miss the park scandal? Several generals running for the hills and then the military investigated themselves to SHOCK HORROR find that nothing dodgy had gone on

If it had been the someone PTP related doing that you'd be hear drooling on your keyboard with rage.

And no, I am not a red shirt. I just get sick of people refusing to look at the bigger picture and blaming the bogey man in Dubai for all Thailand's ills.

So how are these fleeing generals in the park scandal any different Smedly?

As I mentioned above you make fantastic posts in the KT murder case thread. You know that stinks to high heaven and the real culprits have bribed all and sundry to stay out of prison. This is happening on the super corruption fighting general's watch...

I know you dislike Thaksin and with good reason. But can't you see the bigger picture here?

I actually believe the current PM is trying to achieve what he says, he is by no means perfect but I believe he has good intentions, as already mentioned above - nobody else has ever attempted anything like it in Thailand and very likely never would, as it stands he is the only person in Thai political history that has made an attempt (perhaps first step) at stamping out corruption, not an easy task by any means because not only does he need to write legislation into the new charter and create organic laws but he must also make sure that any future elected government can't simply (easily) ammend the charter and remove the parts that prevent them from abusing power - that is the key, it is also important that the agencies put in place to investigate and prosecute corruption can't simply be dismantled.

All this talk about reconcilliation (a Thaksins buzz word which really means his amnesty) is hogwash, enforce the law and prosecute those that break it - simple, the people of Thailand have had enough of this endless string of corrupt governments and officials stealing their money and abusing power, it has to end

Only those that use corruption as a means to enrich themselves will be complaing about this new constitution - that pleases me no end

Edited February 9, 2016 by seedy
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[tbthailand]

Why do you have "corrupt military" in quotations like it is a stupid statement?

Did you miss the park scandal? Several generals running for the hills and then the military investigated themselves to SHOCK HORROR find that nothing dodgy had gone on

If it had been the someone PTP related doing that you'd be hear drooling on your keyboard with rage.

And no, I am not a red shirt. I just get sick of people refusing to look at the bigger picture and blaming the bogey man in Dubai for all Thailand's ills.

y

So how are these fleeing generals in the park scandal any different Smedly?

As I mentioned above you make fantastic posts in the KT murder case thread. You know that stinks to high heaven and the real culprits have bribed all and sundry to stay out of prison. This is happening on the super corruption fighting general's watch...

I know you dislike Thaksin and with good reason. But can't you see the bigger picture here?

I actually believe the current PM is trying to achieve what he says, he is by no means perfect but I believe he has good intentions, as already mentioned above - nobody else has ever attempted anything like it in Thailand and very likely never would, as it stands he is the only person in Thai political history that has made an attempt (perhaps first step) at stamping out corruption, not an easy task by any means because not only does he need to write legislation into the new charter and create organic laws but he must also make sure that any future elected government can't simply (easily) ammend the charter and remove the parts that prevent them from abusing power - that is the key, it is also important that the agencies put in place to investigate and prosecute corruption can't simply be dismantled.

All this talk about reconcilliation (a Thaksins buzz word which really means his amnesty) is hogwash, enforce the law and prosecute those that break it - simple, the people of Thailand have had enough of this endless string of corrupt governments and officials stealing their money and abusing power, it has to end

Only those that use corruption as a means to enrich themselves will be complaing about this new constitution - that pleases me no end

I actually believe the current PM is trying to achieve what he says

if that is your starting point, then, ...

I guess you might then follow it with some examples like how he launched an independent probe into corruption park and hung several high-ranking generals out to dry even though Prem says they are "good men". Or you might point to the reports where he opened the books on his family's millions to show how a career military man came to be so rich - along with his brother. Or you might show how he has implemented transparency in one of the biggest budget items, the military procurement process...

Heck, you might even take the easier task of showing how even-handed he has been in his repression reconciliation by stopping political protests from all groups, be they students with sandwiches or monks in front of embassies...

See, guy, there really isn't much evidence to support your belief.

That's the issue I think most posters have with your posts...

Edited February 9, 2016 by seedy
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[mrrizzla]

I actually believe the current PM is trying to achieve what he says, he is by no means perfect but I believe he has good intentions, as already mentioned above - nobody else has ever attempted anything like it in Thailand and very likely never would, as it stands he is the only person in Thai political history that has made an attempt (perhaps first step) at stamping out corruption, not an easy task by any means because not only does he need to write legislation into the new charter and create organic laws but he must also make sure that any future elected government can't simply (easily) ammend the charter and remove the parts that prevent them from abusing power - that is the key, it is also important that the agencies put in place to investigate and prosecute corruption can't simply be dismantled.

So how are these fleeing generals in the park scandal any different Smedly?

As I mentioned above you make fantastic posts in the KT murder case thread. You know that stinks to high heaven and the real culprits have bribed all and sundry to stay out of prison. This is happening on the super corruption fighting general's watch...

I know you dislike Thaksin and with good reason. But can't you see the bigger picture here?

All this talk about reconcilliation (a Thaksins buzz word which really means his amnesty) is hogwash, enforce the law and prosecute those that break it - simple, the people of Thailand have had enough of this endless string of corrupt governments and officials stealing their money and abusing power, it has to end

Only those that use corruption as a means to enrich themselves will be complaing about this new constitution - that pleases me no end

See for me I look at history. So many of the coups that have happened since 1932 have been on the basis of "removing corruption". Coup, new constitution, rinse and repeat and I am sorry but I have no faith in it being any different this time.

I gave clear examples there that the PM with article 44 has the power to do something about. One scandal where his own organisation and close aides of his were involved and the truth on the matter has been utterly suppressed. The mafia families on the tourist islands continue unabated (after an announcement that they would be cleared out). I really don't see any serious headway he has made and he has been in power for nearly two years already.

You only have to look at history to know that endless coups have hindered the development of this country and not aided it. This one will be no different.

In my eyes suits have been swapped for khakis and that's pretty much where the difference ends.

[Valentine]

The most ardent junta supporters are getting increasingly more shrill as Uncle Too is furiously steering the Thaitanic right towards the iceberg, an iceberg that is in plain view of almost all except those with their heads so far up their rear ends they haven't see the light of day for years.

Smedy you are obviously blind and enjoy it.

If you believe one second this Junta will tackle corruption you're insane!

Please let me know what they have done so far against corruption?

The park in Hua Hin maybe?

Please let us know...

I bet you praised all those in the past who did the same for the best : Pinochet, Nicolae Ceaușescu, Caastro,... or simply ALL the coups before this one...

What a joke!

I guess you were not here when they arrested & jailed a high ranking policeman & his mates for massive corruption. There have been many other arrests & cases pending.

Edited February 9, 2016 by seedy
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[mrrizzla]

The most ardent junta supporters are getting increasingly more shrill as Uncle Too is furiously steering the Thaitanic right towards the iceberg, an iceberg that is in plain view of almost all except those with their heads so far up their rear ends they haven't see the light of day for years.

Smedy you are obviously blind and enjoy it.

If you believe one second this Junta will tackle corruption you're insane!

Please let me know what they have done so far against corruption?

The park in Hua Hin maybe?

Please let us know...

I bet you praised all those in the past who did the same for the best : Pinochet, Nicolae Ceaușescu, Caastro,... or simply ALL the coups before this one...

What a joke!

I guess you were not here when they arrested & jailed a high ranking policeman & his mates for massive corruption. There have been many other arrests & cases pending.

And again, if you actually know your history and do your research you will know the real story about why that cop was thrown under the bus.

We are not allowed to discuss it. I advise for you to research that. That arrest would of happened no matter who was in charge.

Edited February 9, 2016 by seedy
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[Eric Loh]

Ok you believe this "corrupt military" will not eliminate corruption.

Please tell me Who will? The reds?

Why do you have "corrupt military" in quotations like it is a stupid statement?

Did you miss the park scandal? Several generals running for the hills and then the military investigated themselves to SHOCK HORROR find that nothing dodgy had gone on

If it had been the someone PTP related doing that you'd be hear drooling on your keyboard with rage.

And no, I am not a red shirt. I just get sick of people refusing to look at the bigger picture and blaming the bogey man in Dubai for all Thailand's ills.

you mean the convicted criminal Thaksin on the run with his stolen billions

So how are these fleeing generals in the park scandal any different Smedly?

As I mentioned above you make fantastic posts in the KT murder case thread. You know that stinks to high heaven and the real culprits have bribed all and sundry to stay out of prison. This is happening on the super corruption fighting general's watch...

I know you dislike Thaksin and with good reason. But can't you see the bigger picture here?

I actually believe the current PM is trying to achieve what he says, he is by no means perfect but I believe he has good intentions, as already mentioned above - nobody else has ever attempted anything like it in Thailand and very likely never would, as it stands he is the only person in Thai political history that has made an attempt (perhaps first step) at stamping out corruption, not an easy task by any means because not only does he need to write legislation into the new charter and create organic laws but he must also make sure that any future elected government can't simply (easily) ammend the charter and remove the parts that prevent them from abusing power - that is the key, it is also important that the agencies put in place to investigate and prosecute corruption can't simply be dismantled.

All this talk about reconcilliation (a Thaksins buzz word which really means his amnesty) is hogwash, enforce the law and prosecute those that break it - simple, the people of Thailand have had enough of this endless string of corrupt governments and officials stealing their money and abusing power, it has to end

Only those that use corruption as a means to enrich themselves will be complaing about this new constitution - that pleases me no end

He is just a puppet on a string and is powerless in his intention. You should know that if you here long enough. No coup leader staged on their own beliefs but were ordered. The highest law in the country is chaired by the elites right winger and writtened to have the establishment lorded over the subjects. The most corrupted agencies RTP and RTA are left untouched as they are the muscle for the establishment. Corruption has not ended and is in full swing.

[LannaGuy]

Reds in a panic because their decades of corruption income stream is coming to an end - if only the people could see it for what it is, maybe they do lol

It takes willful ignorance in the extreme for people to believe this corrupt military will eliminate corruption. http://government.defenceindex.org/countries/thailand/

However there are clearly posters who exercise such an extreme.

and yours tops the lot, it is hard to figure how blind you and your cohorts are, the only explanation I can think of is that you are somehow finacially involved and have something to lose if this government is successful in cutting the corrupt money supply to certain people, we already know what has gone on in the past and who was primarily involved, what we don't know is how effective this new constitution will be at steering Thailand to a new and better future - so far it seems to be going in the right direction, and of course the people crying foul are those that have the most to lose - I find that hilariously funny

"he only explanation I can think of is that you are somehow finacially involved" and "and have something to lose if this government is successful in cutting the corrupt money supply to certain people"

defamation against a fellow poster

Edited February 9, 2016 by LannaGuy

[GarryP]

A lot of the posters are hammering on about what has NOT been done about corruption under Prayuth. But in actual fact we have seen a massive civil service shakeup, regulations passed with clear timelines on how long various tasks in reviewing applications etc. should take (strict timelines I may add) removal or shifting of department heads etc. all to sever former cash flows for the civil servants concerned. In fact in many departments the civil servants are not happy with the changes (I wonder why not?).

But like everything in Thailand, they only seem to be doing something against those at the bottom of the pecking order. When will they start doing something about those with real power?

[GeorgesAbitbol]

Why do you have "corrupt military" in quotations like it is a stupid statement?

Did you miss the park scandal? Several generals running for the hills and then the military investigated themselves to SHOCK HORROR find that nothing dodgy had gone on

If it had been the someone PTP related doing that you'd be hear drooling on your keyboard with rage.

And no, I am not a red shirt. I just get sick of people refusing to look at the bigger picture and blaming the bogey man in Dubai for all Thailand's ills.

you mean the convicted criminal Thaksin on the run with his stolen billions

So how are these fleeing generals in the park scandal any different Smedly?

As I mentioned above you make fantastic posts in the KT murder case thread. You know that stinks to high heaven and the real culprits have bribed all and sundry to stay out of prison. This is happening on the super corruption fighting general's watch...

I know you dislike Thaksin and with good reason. But can't you see the bigger picture here?

I actually believe the current PM is trying to achieve what he says, he is by no means perfect but I believe he has good intentions, as already mentioned above - nobody else has ever attempted anything like it in Thailand and very likely never would, as it stands he is the only person in Thai political history that has made an attempt (perhaps first step) at stamping out corruption, not an easy task by any means because not only does he need to write legislation into the new charter and create organic laws but he must also make sure that any future elected government can't simply (easily) ammend the charter and remove the parts that prevent them from abusing power - that is the key, it is also important that the agencies put in place to investigate and prosecute corruption can't simply be dismantled.

All this talk about reconcilliation (a Thaksins buzz word which really means his amnesty) is hogwash, enforce the law and prosecute those that break it - simple, the people of Thailand have had enough of this endless string of corrupt governments and officials stealing their money and abusing power, it has to end

Only those that use corruption as a means to enrich themselves will be complaing about this new constitution - that pleases me no end

You re amazing Dude.

Those who support this constitution will be the establishment and the army

I am not sure you know what this constitution is : a tool to let the army step in whenever they want to over-rule politics.

One more time you speak about Chan O Cha like he wants to get rid of corruption.

So I ask you again :

What did he do so far to tackle it ?

He just has the same syndrome you seem to have : monomania against Thaksin

It is a good thing to get rid of this family, however It is not to focus only on this and let everything else crumble.

The Police is still as corrupted as ever, the high profile never go to jail, the journalists are threatened and jailed, the students the same. The corruption in the park is hidden, the high ranked officials are still above the law, Suthep can sleep tight....

All in all, same same but different

[Valentine]

I guess you were not here when they arrested & jailed a high ranking policeman & his mates for massive corruption. There have been many other arrests & cases pending.

And again, if you actually know your history and do your research you will know the real story about why that cop was thrown under the bus.

We are not allowed to discuss it. I advise for you to research that. That arrest would of happened no matter who was in charge.

I know full well the connection in that case, just merely pointing out there have been arrests, jailings, not only the infamous police guy.

[heybruce]

Reds in a panic because their decades of corruption income stream is coming to an end - if only the people could see it for what it is, maybe they do lol

It takes willful ignorance in the extreme for people to believe this corrupt military will eliminate corruption. http://government.defenceindex.org/countries/thailand/

However there are clearly posters who exercise such an extreme.

and yours tops the lot, it is hard to figure how blind you and your cohorts are, the only explanation I can think of is that you are somehow finacially involved and have something to lose if this government is successful in cutting the corrupt money supply to certain people, we already know what has gone on in the past and who was primarily involved, what we don't know is how effective this new constitution will be at steering Thailand to a new and better future - so far it seems to be going in the right direction, and of course the people crying foul are those that have the most to lose - I find that hilariously funny

"he only explanation I can think of is that you are somehow finacially involved" and "and have something to lose if this government is successful in cutting the corrupt money supply to certain people"

defamation against a fellow poster

For the record I do not financially benefit in any way from pointing out a few of the many things wrong with this military government. I am retired from a military that defends a democratic government, it doesn't stage coups.

I am also appalled at the number of posters who should know better who supported the coup and continue to defend the junta. I sometimes wonder if some of them are paid trolls, but the quality of their posts is generally so bad it seems unlikely.

[heybruce]

A lot of the posters are hammering on about what has NOT been done about corruption under Prayuth. But in actual fact we have seen a massive civil service shakeup, regulations passed with clear timelines on how long various tasks in reviewing applications etc. should take (strict timelines I may add) removal or shifting of department heads etc. all to sever former cash flows for the civil servants concerned. In fact in many departments the civil servants are not happy with the changes (I wonder why not?).

But like everything in Thailand, they only seem to be doing something against those at the bottom of the pecking order. When will they start doing something about those with real power?

Perhaps you could provide links that explain in greater detail all these anti-corruption changes. Is transparency in government spending, including the military, part of these changes? How about regular asset declarations by all people in government, including the military, in a position to influence spending? What conflict of interest laws and regulations have been implemented? Is the press free to perform its role as an outside government watchdog?

[GarryP]

A lot of the posters are hammering on about what has NOT been done about corruption under Prayuth. But in actual fact we have seen a massive civil service shakeup, regulations passed with clear timelines on how long various tasks in reviewing applications etc. should take (strict timelines I may add) removal or shifting of department heads etc. all to sever former cash flows for the civil servants concerned. In fact in many departments the civil servants are not happy with the changes (I wonder why not?).

But like everything in Thailand, they only seem to be doing something against those at the bottom of the pecking order. When will they start doing something about those with real power?

Perhaps you could provide links that explain in greater detail all these anti-corruption changes. Is transparency in government spending, including the military, part of these changes? How about regular asset declarations by all people in government, including the military, in a position to influence spending? What conflict of interest laws and regulations have been implemented? Is the press free to perform its role as an outside government watchdog?

I am not defending the junta. Just pointing out that there have in fact been changes. I do not support the coup or the present government. I think that they are making a hash of things, including their argument that they are working on making Thailand a corruption free country. However, the things that they have done in regard to the civil service are things that no elected government would dare do or even want to do (Licensing Facilitation Act 2558, which more accurately should be translated as the Facilitation of Approval Review Act). The ministers involved would be at the trough with their civil servant brethren.

As I said a lot more needs to be done, especially in regard to those in real power. As to the issues you raised, you know that transparency is never going to happen, at least in our lifetimes, and they are never going to introduce laws that directly impact themselves. So, no, I don't think we are ever going to see asset declarations for all and sundry and they are going to keep strict control over the press and attempt to control social media. These latter two, however, are likely to backfire in the long term and further turn the general public against them.

Until Joe public (the Thai public and not armchair warriors) stands up en masse, we are not going to see the changes Thailand needs for a better future, which will be a future many of the elite do not want to see as they will have to start working within the system and become accountable. A system where nepotism, patronage and name dropping is no longer tolerated, where criminals no matter their social status are punished, where land is not only taken away from no name national forest trespassers but also those with famous family names and connections.

Perhaps, and only perhaps, we are seeing some movement in this respect, with the CP insider trading case and the direct impact it has had on that company as a result. But I will not hold my breath waiting as I do not have a death wish.

[mrrizzla]

A lot of the posters are hammering on about what has NOT been done about corruption under Prayuth. But in actual fact we have seen a massive civil service shakeup, regulations passed with clear timelines on how long various tasks in reviewing applications etc. should take (strict timelines I may add) removal or shifting of department heads etc. all to sever former cash flows for the civil servants concerned. In fact in many departments the civil servants are not happy with the changes (I wonder why not?).

But like everything in Thailand, they only seem to be doing something against those at the bottom of the pecking order. When will they start doing something about those with real power?

Perhaps you could provide links that explain in greater detail all these anti-corruption changes. Is transparency in government spending, including the military, part of these changes? How about regular asset declarations by all people in government, including the military, in a position to influence spending? What conflict of interest laws and regulations have been implemented? Is the press free to perform its role as an outside government watchdog?

I am not defending the junta. Just pointing out that there have in fact been changes. I do not support the coup or the present government. I think that they are making a hash of things, including their argument that they are working on making Thailand a corruption free country. However, the things that they have done in regard to the civil service are things that no elected government would dare do or even want to do (Licensing Facilitation Act 2558, which more accurately should be translated as the Facilitation of Approval Review Act). The ministers involved would be at the trough with their civil servant brethren.

As I said a lot more needs to be done, especially in regard to those in real power. As to the issues you raised, you know that transparency is never going to happen, at least in our lifetimes, and they are never going to introduce laws that directly impact themselves. So, no, I don't think we are ever going to see asset declarations for all and sundry and they are going to keep strict control over the press and attempt to control social media. These latter two, however, are likely to backfire in the long term and further turn the general public against them.

Until Joe public (the Thai public and not armchair warriors) stands up en masse, we are not going to see the changes Thailand needs for a better future, which will be a future many of the elite do not want to see as they will have to start working within the system and become accountable. A system where nepotism, patronage and name dropping is no longer tolerated, where criminals no matter their social status are punished, where land is not only taken away from no name national forest trespassers but also those with famous family names and connections.

Perhaps, and only perhaps, we are seeing some movement in this respect, with the CP insider trading case and the direct impact it has had on that company as a result. But I will not hold my breath waiting as I do not have a death wish.

I'd go with that. A few low lying branches and token officials have been gone after but in the grand scheme of things he is protecting the traditional power base. And it is up to Somchai and Ploy to use their people power to change things.

[Baerboxer]

the reds have held a tight grip on their "red" areas and never allowed the truth or an other people to tell the people any different to what the reds demand of them. They are now starting to panic because they are afraid of the people finding out the truth and no longer simply being sheep for the reds to tell what they must do or accept, if the reds lose their power over these people they will collapse and the leaders now it. The truth being told in red areas is unheard of in recent times, jutaporn and friends simply dont want to lose their grip on everyone which is what the referendum will do if it is approved. Not saying that using the defence students is the right way to go but if they agree with what the referendum says then they have every right to push it as this is their country not those in here that are opposed to it.

So, do you & your buddies really think this is a good constitution that should be passed in a referendum? Really?

This draft (& the last one) is shameful. It is simply rubber stamping the army's ongoing control over parliament. It restricts freedoms & stifles democracy to the point it is hardly worth having a lower house.

Here is an accurate assessment of the draft turd

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2016/02/05/liberties-and-rights-lost-under-thailands-2016-constitution/

You people really make me sick backing this foul administration!

Gee wiz, something that stops the red shirts, and their non elected non democratic leaders keeping a control on information - and they don't like it. What a surprise.

Normally, opposition candidates and spokes people, canvassers or anyone even daring to question the Shin party are dealt with - warned off, intimidated, assaulted or even murdered. The gang protects its turf. Bit different when it's the military.

New Mandala - accurate and unbiased, your having a laugh, Why not ask Yingluck, number 1 cousin, Chalerm or any of the former cabinet to comment?

They don't like anything that takes power away from them or the opportunity to get back in charge of the trough. Period.

The posters on here who love to pretend the Shins are remotely interesting in democracy and justice for the poor rather than proven liars who brag at how much they've increased their fortune whilst in government, and break the laws they don't like, are the ones who make any reasonable person want to puke.

So, please tell me; Why does the Australian National University need to be biased for the red shirts or the Shinawatras?? "The College hosts the largest number of regional experts and specialist academic programs in the English-speaking world, and plays a vital role in informing public policy and Australia's intellectual engagement with the societies, cultures and economies of Asia and the Pacific"

And please tell me why you think the writer of the article is unqualified or biased. Khemthong Tongsakulrungruang is a constitutional law scholar, with a first degree honors from Chulalonkorn University.

Or maybe, we should consider you an expert. Mr. fascist supporting, keyboard warrior, with some yellow-shirted Thai they know spouting elitist BS in your gullible ear.

Try and grow up it you want to discuss with the adults.

ANU - who rates them or cares about them outside hypocritical Australia. Australia and intellectual engagement - there's an oxymoron. I remember one of their "academics" telling everyone what a wonderful group of power to the people socialists the Shins are. What a plonker - so much of an expert her only framework for contextualization was Western political constructs.

People are entitled to their view, as is the gentleman who wrote the article. He may be genuinely concerned about the new charter and some of the contents. Many will be. But that doesn't mean the Shin kleptocracy nepotistic alternative is acceptable either.

But, as you normally love to demonstrate your keen objective understanding by concurring with the Shin PR claptrap regardless of any facts; we can only assume you are somewhat gullible and easily led.

[Baerboxer]

If one side allows the students for yes; then the other side for no should be able to use students; also.

Or better still, there should be a neutral media, where information for and against, debating the pros and cons, could be provided for the electorate to base their decision.

The propensity for out and out lies would have to be stopped, but quite frankly, some of the televised UK party political broadcasts stretch the truth a tad to put it mildly.

[Baerboxer]

the reds have held a tight grip on their "red" areas and never allowed the truth or an other people to tell the people any different to what the reds demand of them. They are now starting to panic because they are afraid of the people finding out the truth and no longer simply being sheep for the reds to tell what they must do or accept, if the reds lose their power over these people they will collapse and the leaders now it. The truth being told in red areas is unheard of in recent times, jutaporn and friends simply dont want to lose their grip on everyone which is what the referendum will do if it is approved. Not saying that using the defence students is the right way to go but if they agree with what the referendum says then they have every right to push it as this is their country not those in here that are opposed to it.

So, do you & your buddies really think this is a good constitution that should be passed in a referendum? Really?

This draft (& the last one) is shameful. It is simply rubber stamping the army's ongoing control over parliament. It restricts freedoms & stifles democracy to the point it is hardly worth having a lower house.

Here is an accurate assessment of the draft turd

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2016/02/05/liberties-and-rights-lost-under-thailands-2016-constitution/

You people really make me sick backing this foul administration!

Gee wiz, something that stops the red shirts, and their non elected non democratic leaders keeping a control on information - and they don't like it. What a surprise.

Normally, opposition candidates and spokes people, canvassers or anyone even daring to question the Shin party are dealt with - warned off, intimidated, assaulted or even murdered. The gang protects its turf. Bit different when it's the military.

New Mandala - accurate and unbiased, your having a laugh, Why not ask Yingluck, number 1 cousin, Chalerm or any of the former cabinet to comment?

They don't like anything that takes power away from them or the opportunity to get back in charge of the trough. Period.

The posters on here who love to pretend the Shins are remotely interesting in democracy and justice for the poor rather than proven liars who brag at how much they've increased their fortune whilst in government, and break the laws they don't like, are the ones who make any reasonable person want to puke.

In other words--"But, but, but...Thaksin!"

No comment on the OP, right?

Try and read all the posts on a thread. Perhaps a friend can help.

I was replying to a previous post.

I have commented on the OP. Hope you enjoy reading those.

[tbthailand]

I guess you were not here when they arrested & jailed a high ranking policeman & his mates for massive corruption. There have been many other arrests & cases pending.

And again, if you actually know your history and do your research you will know the real story about why that cop was thrown under the bus.

We are not allowed to discuss it. I advise for you to research that. That arrest would of happened no matter who was in charge.

I know full well the connection in that case, just merely pointing out there have been arrests, jailings, not only the infamous police guy.

well then you realize that he was not arrested and sent up the river for corruption... so why did you claim that in the first place?

just askin'...

[Baerboxer]

Reds in a panic because their decades of corruption income stream is coming to an end - if only the people could see it for what it is, maybe they do lol

It takes willful ignorance in the extreme for people to believe this corrupt military will eliminate corruption. http://government.defenceindex.org/countries/thailand/

However there are clearly posters who exercise such an extreme.

Ok you believe this "corrupt military" will not eliminate corruption.

Please tell me Who will? The reds?

Well Yingluck did claim there was no corruption in "her" government.

And she said on FB, her chosen way of informing the masses, that "her" government had made significant in-roads into the elimination of Human Trafficking.

And her brother said on CNN that he, and his charming sister, had never ever done anything wrong, never ever.

So yes, looks like they could eliminate corruption. Along with eliminating all checks and balances, ngo's, transparency, accountability and the need for any financial accounting.

Paradise.

[tbthailand]

So, do you & your buddies really think this is a good constitution that should be passed in a referendum? Really?

This draft (& the last one) is shameful. It is simply rubber stamping the army's ongoing control over parliament. It restricts freedoms & stifles democracy to the point it is hardly worth having a lower house.

Here is an accurate assessment of the draft turd

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2016/02/05/liberties-and-rights-lost-under-thailands-2016-constitution/

You people really make me sick backing this foul administration!

Gee wiz, something that stops the red shirts, and their non elected non democratic leaders keeping a control on information - and they don't like it. What a surprise.

Normally, opposition candidates and spokes people, canvassers or anyone even daring to question the Shin party are dealt with - warned off, intimidated, assaulted or even murdered. The gang protects its turf. Bit different when it's the military.

New Mandala - accurate and unbiased, your having a laugh, Why not ask Yingluck, number 1 cousin, Chalerm or any of the former cabinet to comment?

They don't like anything that takes power away from them or the opportunity to get back in charge of the trough. Period.

The posters on here who love to pretend the Shins are remotely interesting in democracy and justice for the poor rather than proven liars who brag at how much they've increased their fortune whilst in government, and break the laws they don't like, are the ones who make any reasonable person want to puke.

So, please tell me; Why does the Australian National University need to be biased for the red shirts or the Shinawatras?? "The College hosts the largest number of regional experts and specialist academic programs in the English-speaking world, and plays a vital role in informing public policy and Australia's intellectual engagement with the societies, cultures and economies of Asia and the Pacific"

And please tell me why you think the writer of the article is unqualified or biased. Khemthong Tongsakulrungruang is a constitutional law scholar, with a first degree honors from Chulalonkorn University.

Or maybe, we should consider you an expert. Mr. fascist supporting, keyboard warrior, with some yellow-shirted Thai they know spouting elitist BS in your gullible ear.

Try and grow up it you want to discuss with the adults.

ANU - who rates them or cares about them outside hypocritical Australia. Australia and intellectual engagement - there's an oxymoron. I remember one of their "academics" telling everyone what a wonderful group of power to the people socialists the Shins are. What a plonker - so much of an expert her only framework for contextualization was Western political constructs.

People are entitled to their view, as is the gentleman who wrote the article. He may be genuinely concerned about the new charter and some of the contents. Many will be. But that doesn't mean the Shin kleptocracy nepotistic alternative is acceptable either.

But, as you normally love to demonstrate your keen objective understanding by concurring with the Shin PR claptrap regardless of any facts; we can only assume you are somewhat gullible and easily led.

yawn, blah blah blah....

One, the "Shin Klepto-whatever" could have been voted out of office by the Thai people. That is a choice for the Thai people to make, not the generals.

Two, ANU and their web site has guest contributors from all flavors of the political spectrum. For you to dismiss the entire site out of hand as biased is nonsense.

Three, the author of this article is from Chula which is not known as a bastion of democratic intellectualism... again, ANU gives time to many views.

Fourth, you have a lot of nerve accusing another poster of following "PR claptrap" given your staunch support of the clowns currently running the country...

[Baerboxer]

the reds have held a tight grip on their "red" areas and never allowed the truth or an other people to tell the people any different to what the reds demand of them. They are now starting to panic because they are afraid of the people finding out the truth and no longer simply being sheep for the reds to tell what they must do or accept, if the reds lose their power over these people they will collapse and the leaders now it. The truth being told in red areas is unheard of in recent times, jutaporn and friends simply dont want to lose their grip on everyone which is what the referendum will do if it is approved. Not saying that using the defence students is the right way to go but if they agree with what the referendum says then they have every right to push it as this is their country not those in here that are opposed to it.

So, do you & your buddies really think this is a good constitution that should be passed in a referendum? Really?

This draft (& the last one) is shameful. It is simply rubber stamping the army's ongoing control over parliament. It restricts freedoms & stifles democracy to the point it is hardly worth having a lower house.

Here is an accurate assessment of the draft turd

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2016/02/05/liberties-and-rights-lost-under-thailands-2016-constitution/

You people really make me sick backing this foul administration!

Gee wiz, something that stops the red shirts, and their non elected non democratic leaders keeping a control on information - and they don't like it. What a surprise.

Normally, opposition candidates and spokes people, canvassers or anyone even daring to question the Shin party are dealt with - warned off, intimidated, assaulted or even murdered. The gang protects its turf. Bit different when it's the military.

New Mandala - accurate and unbiased, your having a laugh, Why not ask Yingluck, number 1 cousin, Chalerm or any of the former cabinet to comment?

They don't like anything that takes power away from them or the opportunity to get back in charge of the trough. Period.

The posters on here who love to pretend the Shins are remotely interesting in democracy and justice for the poor rather than proven liars who brag at how much they've increased their fortune whilst in government, and break the laws they don't like, are the ones who make any reasonable person want to puke.

ERE we go again. The ole "Shin in the wardrobe syndrome" with this mentality, Thailand will never get on its feet. HE IS GONE ! did'nt you know that !

You reckon. Hope you are right - but somethings, like a bad smell, seem to linger and irritate.

Guess we'll see when little sis is back in court soon.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Baerboxer

[Baerboxer]

Try and grow up it you want to discuss with the adults.

ANU - who rates them or cares about them outside hypocritical Australia. Australia and intellectual engagement - there's an oxymoron. I remember one of their "academics" telling everyone what a wonderful group of power to the people socialists the Shins are. What a plonker - so much of an expert her only framework for contextualization was Western political constructs.

People are entitled to their view, as is the gentleman who wrote the article. He may be genuinely concerned about the new charter and some of the contents. Many will be. But that doesn't mean the Shin kleptocracy nepotistic alternative is acceptable either.

But, as you normally love to demonstrate your keen objective understanding by concurring with the Shin PR claptrap regardless of any facts; we can only assume you are somewhat gullible and easily led.

yawn, blah blah blah....

One, the "Shin Klepto-whatever" could have been voted out of office by the Thai people. That is a choice for the Thai people to make, not the generals.

Two, ANU and their web site has guest contributors from all flavors of the political spectrum. For you to dismiss the entire site out of hand as biased is nonsense.

Three, the author of this article is from Chula which is not known as a bastion of democratic intellectualism... again, ANU gives time to many views.

Fourth, you have a lot of nerve accusing another poster of following "PR claptrap" given your staunch support of the clowns currently running the country...

Just woke up?

The Shins could have been voted out. But their illegal attempts at forcing a whitewash for their paymaster, use of violence, constant threats and intimidation to judges, open defiance of the law, and calls for a separate state suggest otherwise. If they'd won an election it would have been business as usual, ignore laws when it suits, get the boss back a freeman at all costs. If they lost, it would have been a series of made up challenges and shennanigans to try and cling on to office and get the result changed. They don't play by any rules but their own and left themselves wide open for a coup - which was eagerly waiting for an excuse.

Australia is only a serious player academically, politically, and economically in the minds of Australians. Quite frankly, I doubt the current government give a fig about not being able to go there so long as the Aussie politicos and businessmen come here, as they do. No one really cares what institutions down under think.

Doesn't matter where the author is from, he's entitled to his view. Being against aspects in the proposed charter doesn't make him pro Shin.

Who says I staunchly support the current government? That's the usual retort of those who praise the Shins.

[MZurf]

Try and grow up it you want to discuss with the adults.

ANU - who rates them or cares about them outside hypocritical Australia. Australia and intellectual engagement - there's an oxymoron. I remember one of their "academics" telling everyone what a wonderful group of power to the people socialists the Shins are. What a plonker - so much of an expert her only framework for contextualization was Western political constructs.

People are entitled to their view, as is the gentleman who wrote the article. He may be genuinely concerned about the new charter and some of the contents. Many will be. But that doesn't mean the Shin kleptocracy nepotistic alternative is acceptable either.

But, as you normally love to demonstrate your keen objective understanding by concurring with the Shin PR claptrap regardless of any facts; we can only assume you are somewhat gullible and easily led.

yawn, blah blah blah....

One, the "Shin Klepto-whatever" could have been voted out of office by the Thai people. That is a choice for the Thai people to make, not the generals.

Two, ANU and their web site has guest contributors from all flavors of the political spectrum. For you to dismiss the entire site out of hand as biased is nonsense.

Three, the author of this article is from Chula which is not known as a bastion of democratic intellectualism... again, ANU gives time to many views.

Fourth, you have a lot of nerve accusing another poster of following "PR claptrap" given your staunch support of the clowns currently running the country...

Just woke up?

The Shins could have been voted out. But their illegal attempts at forcing a whitewash for their paymaster, use of violence, constant threats and intimidation to judges, open defiance of the law, and calls for a separate state suggest otherwise. If they'd won an election it would have been business as usual, ignore laws when it suits, get the boss back a freeman at all costs. If they lost, it would have been a series of made up challenges and shennanigans to try and cling on to office and get the result changed. They don't play by any rules but their own and left themselves wide open for a coup - which was eagerly waiting for an excuse.

Australia is only a serious player academically, politically, and economically in the minds of Australians. Quite frankly, I doubt the current government give a fig about not being able to go there so long as the Aussie politicos and businessmen come here, as they do. No one really cares what institutions down under think.

Doesn't matter where the author is from, he's entitled to his view. Being against aspects in the proposed charter doesn't make him pro Shin.

Who says I staunchly support the current government? That's the usual retort of those who praise the Shins.

So, what is your view on the junta?

Edited February 9, 2016 by MZurf

[Eric Loh]

Try and grow up it you want to discuss with the adults.

ANU - who rates them or cares about them outside hypocritical Australia. Australia and intellectual engagement - there's an oxymoron. I remember one of their "academics" telling everyone what a wonderful group of power to the people socialists the Shins are. What a plonker - so much of an expert her only framework for contextualization was Western political constructs.

People are entitled to their view, as is the gentleman who wrote the article. He may be genuinely concerned about the new charter and some of the contents. Many will be. But that doesn't mean the Shin kleptocracy nepotistic alternative is acceptable either.

But, as you normally love to demonstrate your keen objective understanding by concurring with the Shin PR claptrap regardless of any facts; we can only assume you are somewhat gullible and easily led.

yawn, blah blah blah....

One, the "Shin Klepto-whatever" could have been voted out of office by the Thai people. That is a choice for the Thai people to make, not the generals.

Two, ANU and their web site has guest contributors from all flavors of the political spectrum. For you to dismiss the entire site out of hand as biased is nonsense.

Three, the author of this article is from Chula which is not known as a bastion of democratic intellectualism... again, ANU gives time to many views.

Fourth, you have a lot of nerve accusing another poster of following "PR claptrap" given your staunch support of the clowns currently running the country...

Just woke up?

The Shins could have been voted out. But their illegal attempts at forcing a whitewash for their paymaster, use of violence, constant threats and intimidation to judges, open defiance of the law, and calls for a separate state suggest otherwise. If they'd won an election it would have been business as usual, ignore laws when it suits, get the boss back a freeman at all costs. If they lost, it would have been a series of made up challenges and shennanigans to try and cling on to office and get the result changed. They don't play by any rules but their own and left themselves wide open for a coup - which was eagerly waiting for an excuse.

Australia is only a serious player academically, politically, and economically in the minds of Australians. Quite frankly, I doubt the current government give a fig about not being able to go there so long as the Aussie politicos and businessmen come here, as they do. No one really cares what institutions down under think.

Doesn't matter where the author is from, he's entitled to his view. Being against aspects in the proposed charter doesn't make him pro Shin.

Who says I staunchly support the current government? That's the usual retort of those who praise the Shins.

They don't play by any rules but their own and left themselves wide open for a coup - which was eagerly waiting for an excuse....

Think you just got up from your afternoon nap. The amnesty has been binned and the previous government has already dissolved Parliment plus the fact that the PM has been dismissed and had stepped down by order from the constitutional court. They didn't clinged to power. What excuse and why the coup is necessary if not to have the excuse to rid their political enemies.

[Baerboxer]

"he only explanation I can think of is that you are somehow finacially involved" and "and have something to lose if this government is successful in cutting the corrupt money supply to certain people"

defamation against a fellow poster

For the record I do not financially benefit in any way from pointing out a few of the many things wrong with this military government. I am retired from a military that defends a democratic government, it doesn't stage coups.

I am also appalled at the number of posters who should know better who supported the coup and continue to defend the junta. I sometimes wonder if some of them are paid trolls, but the quality of their posts is generally so bad it seems unlikely.

The only issue with what you say is that the last government, whilst elected through the existing election mechanism, was not acting in a democratic way.

Lying to the opposition that a vote would be held the next day, and then holding it when the opposition left is hardly democratic. But they didn't want a public debate. Many more examples.

Why did they act in such a way, when they had a majority and with coalition partners, a very big one?

Too lazy, things to hide in the detail, not wanting discussion and accountability, or simply arrogant? Who knows but they left themselves wide open for a coup which duly happened.

Politicians and the elite hiso wealthy and their clans wouldn't get away with such behavior in real democracies. But that's the rub, things are different here and until there are some very fundamental changes in society nothing will change much.

[Baerboxer]

Try and grow up it you want to discuss with the adults.

ANU - who rates them or cares about them outside hypocritical Australia. Australia and intellectual engagement - there's an oxymoron. I remember one of their "academics" telling everyone what a wonderful group of power to the people socialists the Shins are. What a plonker - so much of an expert her only framework for contextualization was Western political constructs.

People are entitled to their view, as is the gentleman who wrote the article. He may be genuinely concerned about the new charter and some of the contents. Many will be. But that doesn't mean the Shin kleptocracy nepotistic alternative is acceptable either.

But, as you normally love to demonstrate your keen objective understanding by concurring with the Shin PR claptrap regardless of any facts; we can only assume you are somewhat gullible and easily led.

yawn, blah blah blah....

One, the "Shin Klepto-whatever" could have been voted out of office by the Thai people. That is a choice for the Thai people to make, not the generals.

Two, ANU and their web site has guest contributors from all flavors of the political spectrum. For you to dismiss the entire site out of hand as biased is nonsense.

Three, the author of this article is from Chula which is not known as a bastion of democratic intellectualism... again, ANU gives time to many views.

Fourth, you have a lot of nerve accusing another poster of following "PR claptrap" given your staunch support of the clowns currently running the country...

Just woke up?

The Shins could have been voted out. But their illegal attempts at forcing a whitewash for their paymaster, use of violence, constant threats and intimidation to judges, open defiance of the law, and calls for a separate state suggest otherwise. If they'd won an election it would have been business as usual, ignore laws when it suits, get the boss back a freeman at all costs. If they lost, it would have been a series of made up challenges and shennanigans to try and cling on to office and get the result changed. They don't play by any rules but their own and left themselves wide open for a coup - which was eagerly waiting for an excuse.

Australia is only a serious player academically, politically, and economically in the minds of Australians. Quite frankly, I doubt the current government give a fig about not being able to go there so long as the Aussie politicos and businessmen come here, as they do. No one really cares what institutions down under think.

Doesn't matter where the author is from, he's entitled to his view. Being against aspects in the proposed charter doesn't make him pro Shin.

Who says I staunchly support the current government? That's the usual retort of those who praise the Shins.

They don't play by any rules but their own and left themselves wide open for a coup - which was eagerly waiting for an excuse....

Think you just got up from your afternoon nap. The amnesty has been binned and the previous government has already dissolved Parliment plus the fact that the PM has been dismissed and had stepped down by order from the constitutional court. They didn't clinged to power. What excuse and why the coup is necessary if not to have the excuse to rid their political enemies.

You are lying Eric, The Amnesty Bill, the version craftily amended, against procedure, to favor Thaksin was never binned. Yingluck lied, not for the first or last time, when she said all the versions of the bill had been binned. Several versions had, but strangely, not the one that favored her brother and caused all the protests. They knew that would be returned to the lower house and they could then vote it into law without it having to go to the upper house again.

All well reported on at the time, Eric, including on ThaiVisa.

Appreciate your love of the Shins is undying, but do try and avoid repeating lies they've already been caught out on.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Baerboxer