Major Fail @ Chon Buri Immigration Today for Change of Visa TM 86

[Roger Lee]

Went today to Jomtien Immigration for a change of visa from my tourist visa to a Non O Visa based on retirement.

I thought I had all my ducks in a row and was turned away due to my landlord (condo owner) being an American living here on a an extended stay based on retirement with no work permit. The lady was adamant that a foreigner renting out their condo requires a work permit, thus my proof of residence is not acceptable.

Went next to immigration to the legal/visa/copy office and the lady quoted me 25,000 baht to get the visa, said no problem even after I explained what happened and what I was told. This is with all my paperwork being already filled out and only lacking a proof of residence. I smell something fishy here...

Any thoughts?

Edited February 10, 2016 by Roger Lee

[ubonjoe]

Not the first report of that happening at Jomtien. All that I can say is that the officer is wrong. Perhaps try to take it up to a supervisor.

[elviajero]

Whether or not a landlord requires a work permit is moot. The landlord should at least have a tax ID and submit tax returns on the income. Maybe confirmation that the landlord is registered with the Revenue Department might be sufficient.

The same problem was reported today at Pattaya. Report.

[Gsxrnz]

Whether or not a landlord requires a work permit is moot. The landlord should at least have a tax ID and submit tax returns on the income. Maybe confirmation that the landlord is registered with the Revenue Department might be sufficient.

The same problem was reported today at Pattaya. Report.

Um......Pattaya and Chonburi Immigration are one and the same. So is Jomtien Immigration.

[elviajero]

Whether or not a landlord requires a work permit is moot. The landlord should at least have a tax ID and submit tax returns on the income. Maybe confirmation that the landlord is registered with the Revenue Department might be sufficient.

The same problem was reported today at Pattaya. Report.

Um......Pattaya and Chonburi Immigration are one and the same. So is Jomtien Immigration.

Yes I know

[Gsxrnz]

OP - I had a friend with the same issue. He went to the bookshop at Central and bought a copy of the one page lease that Thais use. He got his girlfriend to write her name as the landlord and he signed as tenant.

Problem solved for 20 Baht.

[Jingthing]

OP - I had a friend with the same issue. He went to the bookshop at Central and bought a copy of the one page lease that Thais use. He got his girlfriend to write her name as the landlord and he signed as tenant.

Problem solved for 20 Baht.

Fraud, innit?

[Gsxrnz]

OP - I had a friend with the same issue. He went to the bookshop at Central and bought a copy of the one page lease that Thais use. He got his girlfriend to write her name as the landlord and he signed as tenant.

Problem solved for 20 Baht.

Fraud, innit?

Nuh. Forgery.

But both are quite common in Thailand.

Irrespective, one has to find expedient solutions to minor hiccups in life such as the OP is experiencing.

[harrry]

OP - I had a friend with the same issue. He went to the bookshop at Central and bought a copy of the one page lease that Thais use. He got his girlfriend to write her name as the landlord and he signed as tenant.

Problem solved for 20 Baht.

Fraud, innit?

He is subleasing the property rentedd by the girlfriend. Does not sound like fraud to me.

[Jingthing]

OP - I had a friend with the same issue. He went to the bookshop at Central and bought a copy of the one page lease that Thais use. He got his girlfriend to write her name as the landlord and he signed as tenant.

Problem solved for 20 Baht.

Fraud, innit?

He is subleasing the property rentedd by the girlfriend. Does not sound like fraud to me.

Perhaps not in that case, but the OP's situation doesn't sound like that and posting that example is basically suggesting he commit fraud. Not saying it's good advice or not, but that's what it is.

Personally, I think the demand at immigration is not reasonable, so I feel sympathy for the OP's situation but don't have any practical legal advice for the OP.

Scratch that. I just thought of an idea.

Perhaps this would be a case where paying an immigration "fixer" a processing fee to get this application through. I don't mean a bribe, I mean one of the visa services that have ways of doing things that mere mortals can't. Oh, just reread the OP, he already knows about the fixer idea. Probably can get a cheaper rate than 25 for that ... shop around. Fishy? Could be ... welcome to Thailand, hold your nose if you want to live here.

Here's another idea.

The OP could go to Penang or Vientiane and obtain a single entry O visa there and from there maybe he would have better luck getting his first annual retirement extension with his current address situation. No guarantees.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Jingthing

[Roger Lee]

Not the first report of that happening at Jomtien. All that I can say is that the officer is wrong. Perhaps try to take it up to a supervisor.

Thanks ubonjoe, and I will.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Roger Lee

[IMA_FARANG]

Whether or not a landlord requires a work permit is moot. The landlord should at least have a tax ID and submit tax returns on the income. Maybe confirmation that the landlord is registered with the Revenue Department might be sufficient.

The same problem was reported today at Pattaya. Report.

-------------------------

Has happened before....but unless the "owner" of the condo has permission in his contract for the condo to sublet that condo to another person, the "owner" of the condo can't simply rent out that condo to another person without a work permit because he is driving revenue from that rental.....and is eligible for Thai taxes on that revenue.

And that is called "wok" in Thailand.

[blackcab]

You could rent a thai-style room that comes with a lease agreement for cheap.

Then just walk away from it.

[NancyL]

Here in Chiang Mai the condo office will file the TM30 for the people who are renting in our building. Will the management of the OP's condo building do the same thing for him? That's really the problem -- the Immigration office is saying his condo owner is able to file a TM 30 form for him, right?

And, it is dodgy that someone if the condo owner isn't filing an income tax return on the income from the condo rental. Heck, I file a Thai income tax return and I'm on a retirement visa. Well, in all fairness, that's so I can get a refund on withholding from earnings on bank interest income.

[Roger Lee]

Here in Chiang Mai the condo office will file the TM30 for the people who are renting in our building. Will the management of the OP's condo building do the same thing for him? That's really the problem -- the Immigration office is saying his condo owner is able to file a TM 30 form for him, right?

And, it is dodgy that someone if the condo owner isn't filing an income tax return on the income from the condo rental. Heck, I file a Thai income tax return and I'm on a retirement visa. Well, in all fairness, that's so I can get a refund on withholding from earnings on bank interest income.

I've successfully filed a TM30 twice for tourist visa extensions.

This time I decided to change my visa to a non o for retirement. This is where the problem started.

[paz]

This time I decided to change my visa to a non o for retirement. This is where the problem started.

Move temporarily into a guesthouse where the Thai owner will provide all the required papers.

That unless you want to fight abuse as ubonjoe correctly suggested.

[jacko45k]

OP - I had a friend with the same issue. He went to the bookshop at Central and bought a copy of the one page lease that Thais use. He got his girlfriend to write her name as the landlord and he signed as tenant.

Problem solved for 20 Baht.

Fraud, innit?

I would not risk it as a second attempt, particularly if the same official who rejected him prior is around!

I have friends who rent condos and they seem confident that they can do so without the need of a work permit.

[Suradit69]

This time I decided to change my visa to a non o for retirement. This is where the problem started.

Move temporarily into a guesthouse where the Thai owner will provide all the required papers.

That unless you want to fight abuse as ubonjoe correctly suggested.

In Pattaya, as far as I know, immigrations doesn't bother with paying visits to those on retirement extensions or those requesting a visa entry change, but I believe it does happen in some places. If someone at Jomtien decides to randomly check on a few retirees, it could result in some problems if the O/P weren't found at the address he claims.

Also, if he doesn't use the same address when he actually applies for the extension, or subsequent annual renewals, he would need evidence of reporting a change of address to immigrations.

Most likely he'd get away with it, or one of the other suggestions made above, but there's at least a small chance he'd find himself trying to explain what's going on. "... oh what a tangled web we weave."

When you sign things at immigrations you are explicitly or implicitly claiming all the information you've given is true. Falsifying documents is enough to get you the boot if they want to press the issue.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Suradit69

[Roger Lee]

Yep, the ineptitude and incompetence mixed in with the saving face of public officials wins again.

I'm off to Vientiane next week for another tourist visa. Guess I'll worry about this later.

[Suradit69]

Here in Chiang Mai the condo office will file the TM30 for the people who are renting in our building. Will the management of the OP's condo building do the same thing for him? That's really the problem -- the Immigration office is saying his condo owner is able to file a TM 30 form for him, right?

And, it is dodgy that someone if the condo owner isn't filing an income tax return on the income from the condo rental. Heck, I file a Thai income tax return and I'm on a retirement visa. Well, in all fairness, that's so I can get a refund on withholding from earnings on bank interest income.

I've successfully filed a TM30 twice for tourist visa extensions.

This time I decided to change my visa to a non o for retirement. This is where the problem started.

"This time I decided to change my visa to a non o for retirement. This is where the problem started."

Since all applications for change of visa entries have to go through Bangkok, could you not just submit the application yourself in Bangkok ??? Retirement extension still needs to be done at the office that serves your residential area, but I think the change of visa status could be done in Bangkok, or as someone else suggested, use a visa service.

[Suradit69]

Yep, the ineptitude and incompetence mixed in with the saving face of public officials wins again.

I'm off to Vientiane next week for another tourist visa. Guess I'll worry about this later.

"Yep, the ineptitude and incompetence mixed in with the saving face of public officials wins again. "

May be true in some cases, but more often than not it's a matter of ignorance and an unwarranted sense of entitlement combined with loss of face on the part of farang that causes all the problems.

I've always found the Jomtien office to be very efficient & well run, and the staff to be polite and pleasant to deal with. Possibly being a "tourist" gives you a different perspective.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Suradit69

[KittenKong]

Perhaps this would be a case where paying an immigration "fixer" a processing fee to get this application through. I don't mean a bribe, I mean one of the visa services that have ways of doing things that mere mortals can't.

Do you seriously believe that using any of these "fixer" services does not involve a bribe being paid to obtain the desired result?

The whole point of these services is that they pay the bribe for you.

[Roger Lee]

I considered Bangkok also, but also wondered if they're requiring the same for proof of residence. It's very possible this is a directive from above as the Jomtien office won't budge from it.

I can get another tourist visa so that's what I'll do.

Here in Chiang Mai the condo office will file the TM30 for the people who are renting in our building. Will the management of the OP's condo building do the same thing for him? That's really the problem -- the Immigration office is saying his condo owner is able to file a TM 30 form for him, right?

And, it is dodgy that someone if the condo owner isn't filing an income tax return on the income from the condo rental. Heck, I file a Thai income tax return and I'm on a retirement visa. Well, in all fairness, that's so I can get a refund on withholding from earnings on bank interest income.

I've successfully filed a TM30 twice for tourist visa extensions.

This time I decided to change my visa to a non o for retirement. This is where the problem started.

"This time I decided to change my visa to a non o for retirement. This is where the problem started."

Since all applications for change of visa entries have to go through Bangkok, could you not just submit the application yourself in Bangkok ??? Retirement extension still needs to be done at the office that serves your residential area, but I think the change of visa status could be done in Bangkok, or as someone else suggested, use a visa service.

[ubonjoe]

Yep, the ineptitude and incompetence mixed in with the saving face of public officials wins again.

I'm off to Vientiane next week for another tourist visa. Guess I'll worry about this later.

If you are going to Vientiane you should get a single entry non-o visa for being 50 or over. Just show the same financial proof you were going to use for the change of visa status.

[Roger Lee]

Yep, the ineptitude and incompetence mixed in with the saving face of public officials wins again.

I'm off to Vientiane next week for another tourist visa. Guess I'll worry about this later.

"Yep, the ineptitude and incompetence mixed in with the saving face of public officials wins again. "

May be true in some cases, but more often than not it's a matter of ignorance and an unwarranted sense of entitlement combined with loss of face on the part of farang that causes all the problems.

I've always found the Jomtien office to be very efficient & well run, and the staff to be polite and pleasant to deal with. Possibly being a "tourist" gives you a different perspective.

Agreed, although I've been here since July and have numerous lengthy stays prior. I guess we're all tourists in a sense.

It's sad that when I decide to get a "proper" visa they insist on putting road blocks in the way.

[Roger Lee]

Yep, the ineptitude and incompetence mixed in with the saving face of public officials wins again.

I'm off to Vientiane next week for another tourist visa. Guess I'll worry about this later.

If you are going to Vientiane you should get a single entry non-o visa for being 50 or over. Just show the same financial proof you were going to use for the change of visa status.

Thanks ubonjoe. Great input and I'll do that.

[technologybytes]

Of course, its impossible for the landlord to get a work permit.

Never ask about work permits at immigration, its not their department.

[ubonjoe]

I considered Bangkok also, but also wondered if they're requiring the same for proof of residence. It's very possible this is a directive from above as the Jomtien office won't budge from it.

I can get another tourist visa so that's what I'll do.

Bangkok does not ask for the same thing because they have people coming from all over the country to a apply for the change.

Just go up and a spend the night so that you can put a Bangkok address on the application form. If you used your Pattaya address they would turn you away and tell you to go to Jomtien.

[Roger Lee]

Perhaps this would be a case where paying an immigration "fixer" a processing fee to get this application through. I don't mean a bribe, I mean one of the visa services that have ways of doing things that mere mortals can't.

Do you seriously believe that using any of these "fixer" services does not involve a bribe being paid to obtain the desired result?

The whole point of these services is that they pay the bribe for you.

I considered the Visa services but thought the 25,000 baht fee was rather rich.

I could rent out another place to stay for that amount easily.

[Gandtee]

You smell something fishy! Amazing powers of perspicacity.