Teacher Licensing, Culture Testing, TCT

[garro]

I know that there is a lot of confusion about what is occurring at the moment, but there does seem to be some change coming for those wishing to teach in Thailand.

I have friends who teach here in Thailand, but they haven't mentioned anything about what is occurring at the moment or the changes that will be coming. I'm afraid that they may not even know about what's going on now (and coming in the future) so would you please elaborate or point me to a source.

I think that people are still not sure about what is happening and more importantly how strongly any rule change will be enforced.

Here is a thread about some of the proposed changes;

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=167152

Edited February 5, 2008 by garro

[pattyboy]

Does anyone have a take on whether these new requirements affect university-level instructors? Or only teachers of Mathayom 12 and down?

I'd like to know the same thing. According to my teacher friends (who work at an International University) they don't need licenses. The license requirement is only for those teaching prathom and mathayom students.

[PeaceBlondie]

Hasn't that already been affirmed or indicated, that tertiary instructors are exempt?

By the way, garro has started an excellent thread with a poll on higher standards, and that's a better place to post general comments or opinions about the standards.

[pattyboy]

I know that there is a lot of confusion about what is occurring at the moment, but there does seem to be some change coming for those wishing to teach in Thailand.

I have friends who teach here in Thailand, but they haven't mentioned anything about what is occurring at the moment or the changes that will be coming. I'm afraid that they may not even know about what's going on now (and coming in the future) so would you please elaborate or point me to a source.

I think that people are still not sure about what is happening and more importantly how strongly any rule change will be enforced.

Here is a thread about some of the proposed changes;

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=167152

Thanks garro. I'll send my friends the link.

However, it occurred to me that my friends are teaching at an International University, and I recall them saying once that teaching licenses are only required for those teaching Prathom (basically grades 1-6) and mathayom (grades 7-12) students. That's probably why the subject of new requirements hasn't come up in conversation.

[s1214215]

Can anyone here confirm the validity of this. I have looked through various forums and I am a little confused.

Are teachers from government schools only required to do the course in Thai culture (20 hours)? At the school I currently work at the administration say this is the case and that government school teachers are exempt from doing the 1 year course.

many thanks

[Petch01]

I voted: "this will benefit the student and teacher". I hesitated though. I liked to vote :This will be great for Education in Thailand" but it wasn't there.

Please don't forget that the whole teacher license project of the Teachers' Council of Thailand isn't aimed at the EFL-industry, thus foreigners, only.

All Thai nationals who want to enter the teaching profession must meet the requirements of the TCT too. The Thai nationals obviously don't have to do the Thai Language, Culture and Ethics course. But similar to the foreign teachers who don't have a B.Ed., Thai nationals have to pass the 4 tests involving 600 questions too. They even have to pay. Not 4,000 THB though.

Petch01

[mopenyang]

Hasn't that already been affirmed or indicated, that tertiary instructors are exempt?

By the way, garro has started an excellent thread with a poll on higher standards, and that's a better place to post general comments or opinions about the standards.

Thankfully , this is strictly a spectator sport for uni lecturers. See (6) below:

"Section 43 The Profession of Teachers, Educational Institution Administrators and Education Administrators shall be a licensed Profession under this Act. Other licensed Professions shall be as stipulated in ministerial regulations.

No one shall practice a licensed Profession without a License under this Act, except in any of the following cases:

(1) Those occasionally providing knowledge to learners in any Educational Institution as guest educational lecturers;

(2) Those whose primary Profession does not relate to the teaching and learning process, but has the occasional duty to teach;

(3) Students, trainees or those with a practical training license apprenticing or training under the supervision of Professional Educators, subject to the criteria, procedures and conditions set forth by the Teachers Council of Thailand Board;

(4) Those arbitrarily offering educational courses;

(5) Those teaching in any learning center under the law governing national education or learning establishments arbitrarily operated by nonformal educational agencies, individuals, families, communities, community organizations, local administrative organizations, private organizations, Professional organizations, religious institutions, business establishments, hospitals, medical institutions, charitable shelters and other social institutions;

(6) Public and private instructors, Educational Institution Administrators and Education Administrators at the higher education level;

(7) Education Administrators of a level higher than educational districts;

(8) Other persons as designated by the Teachers Council of Thailand Board."

Edited February 5, 2008 by mopenyang

[PeaceBlondie]

The question or project assumes too much that almost never happens in Thailand: that we can trust the government, we can trust Thai educators/administrators, etc.

Will this will be great for the profession? How 'prlofessliionsla' do you think the folks in charge really intend this to be? Will the Thai cutlure test make you a better teacher than you are now?

Will this benefit the student and teacher in 98% of the public schools? Nah, I doubt it.

That leaves us with: minimal benefit, no benefit, or madness and self-defeating.

BE more professional. But I doubt these tests will show who the best teachers are.

I'm a cynic who wishes the glass were at least half full.

[culicine]

There are possible benefits, though it really depends on changes to the archaic educational system in this country. For example, why learn how to integrate technology into the classroom (as I did in many of my teaching units), when students here aren;t even allowed to use calculators, even at m5-6 level. It has been shown that their use can improve conceptual understanding, though Thai's resist it (as it was resisted in the West 30-40 years ago). It's great to learn how to write questions using Blooms' Taxonomy, by why bother when kids here sit multiple choice exams and don't even have to think beyond the box.

So yes, teachers will benefit by being more well resourced (betwern educational toolbok, if you will), but there could be problems with wider implementation across all school, expecially government schools taught by Thai teachers. The best chance for improvements would be in well resources AND well managed EP's, where the education of the students is put FIRST.

[Thaiboxer]

With the crazy paperwork hoops we have to jump through, pathetic salaries/working conditions plus the attitudes of most Thai students, this whole idea of increasing demands on foreign teachers is an absolute joke! Beggars can't be choosers; if they want foreign teachers to really possess these qualifications, they need to give something decent in return. I doubt that will happen, so those in charge of the country's education system need to be very lenient and take what they can get. This is not to suggest that they just take anybody from an English speaking country, but asking for all these qualifications simply isn't practical. Very few foreigners living here actually possess them; in fact, not many people in our home countries possess these qualifications. There is a worldwide shortage of prospective teachers coupled with a mass exodus of those who are already in the profession. This is not at all surprising when you consider the circumstances: low pay, little if any support from the system, and the teachers are looked upon as criminals while the scumbag kids do anything they please. What was once a respectable profession has fallen by the wayside. It's a shame.

[garro]

I know that only a few people have voted thus far, but the result is interesting none the less.

From reading about this topic here and on a different forum the reaction to the news was very negative.

This poll so far shows that over 70% here believe that it will be of benefit.

Interesting.

[mbkudu]

I have posted this query on another thread as well. It seems that with these new (newly enforced) regulations, TEFL/CELTA providers' certificates are rendered useless. I guess what I mean by useless is that these certificates will have no bearing on any kind of requirement to become a legal teacher here. They will only be useful for personal development.

Edited February 5, 2008 by mbkudu

[PeaceBlondie]

And as I responded, no govt. agency that I knew of in Thailand cared about TEFL/CELTA certs, just the schools that hired. And those of us who wanted to know what the heck we were doing, took the courses, and I still think folks should.

[withnail]

And the schools still will when all of this BS blows over and or some workaround is created.

[s1214215]

I thought I would go to the horses mouth for some information. However I think the Teachers Council of Thailand is more of a horses arse. After several days of not being able to get them on the phone, I got a Thai friend to check out their website. He said that people have stated on the forum page of the TCT that they have been waiting for 6 months to 2 years for a teachers license to be issued and that all their inquiries as to why have gone unanswered. Others also complain that the TCT never answer the phone or emails.

Well I can agree on the phone calls, I am still waiting on an email reply. A colleague is going to go to their office later in the week to see if anyone is alive over there.

[withnail]

Tell them to look under the desks.

[otherstuff1957]

My wife talked to them on the phone a couple of months ago. They told her all about the new requirements then, the only surprise is the timing. Back then, they said that the new licenses would be phased in over the next year or two. This sudden cut-off of the old requirements is quite a change!

They also said that no-one there spoke English!

[s1214215]

Hah!! So no one at the TCT speak English.... That helps when farang teachers need to ask them questions.

Your wife must be lucky... I have tried for days with the phone on auto-redial

[Petch01]

Hah!! So no one at the TCT speak English.... That helps when farang teachers need to ask them questions.

Your wife must be lucky... I have tried for days with the phone on auto-redial

Try these numbers: 0 2280-4334, 0 2280-4338 or 0 2282-4862.

The second number was answered and they gave me the third number which was answered too. I asked for the scores of my tests which I did at the beginning of December 2007. "They will be published soon on the internet" was the answer. BTW, you have to speak Thai .

Petch01

[mbkudu]

so, is the 75,000 THB for a course with a Rajabaht at your school if you have a min of 15 teachers? This works out at 5K THB per teacher - makes a little more sense but TIT

I think that rate is PER TEACHER (that is the educational credits course, 6 months part time??). The Thai culture and Ethics course seems to range between 3500 - 10000 baht and spreads over a few days.

'PER TEACHER' sounds right. The same grad diploma courses can be taken at Ram IIS, Thammasat and ABAC for about 60,000 baht. The course content seems to be almost the same as what's in the scanned document here. The only difference I saw was that the programs in these universities include teacher training, whereas the above scanned document doesn't make it clear whether teacher training is included.

Edited February 6, 2008 by mbkudu

[mbkudu]

Maybe this rings a bell for some Grad Dip

[s1214215]

Thanks.. I will get my friend to try them. These numbers are different to the ones I was given from the website. Good luck with the results too.

[PeaceBlondie]

Well, our friends at ajarn forum have had a chance to vote on the same question, and two points interest me>

While they thought our 16 early replies were an insignificant number (and that is true), only 16 of their much larger group has even replied after an almost similar lapse of time, and we now have 19 replies.

While 52% of our folks say the new entrance requirements may be positive and 35% say they will be madness, only 6% of the folks at ajarn say it may be positive, and 75% say nonsense! Of course, many posters voted in both polls.

[apex2000]

Could someone give me some advice on my situation, please? I work as a volunteer at the Regional Non-Formal Education Centre in Ubon Ratchathani. My work rarely involves any teaching as I work in the Academic Research and Development Group; we produce various types of teaching media and I also do some occasional translation. According to what I read above, I think that I may be exempt from needing a licence:

No one shall practice a licensed Profession without a License under this Act, except in any of the following cases:

(1) Those occasionally providing knowledge to learners in any Educational Institution as guest educational lecturers;

(2) Those whose primary Profession does not relate to the teaching and learning process, but has the occasional duty to teach;

(3) Students, trainees or those with a practical training license apprenticing or training under the supervision of Professional Educators, subject to the criteria, procedures and conditions set forth by the Teachers Council of Thailand Board;

(4) Those arbitrarily offering educational courses;

(5) Those teaching in any learning center under the law governing national education or learning establishments arbitrarily operated by nonformal educational agencies, individuals, families, communities, community organizations, local administrative organizations, private organizations, Professional organizations, religious institutions, business establishments, hospitals, medical institutions, charitable shelters and other social institutions;

(6) Public and private instructors, Educational Institution Administrators and Education Administrators at the higher education level;

(7) Education Administrators of a level higher than educational districts;

(8) Other persons as designated by the Teachers Council of Thailand Board."

I have had a work permit for this position since May 2005.

Could someone confirm that my thoughts are correct?

Thanks.

[wangsuda]

I'm only voting in this one. I do not think there will be any improvement in the educational system and here's why: In California (where I am credentialed), teachers pay to earn further qualifications ( degrees, addendum's to credentials, etc). When a teacher does this, s/he GETS A HIGHER RATE OF PAY. The more qualified you are, the HIGHER THE RATE OF PAY. Thailand pays all equally, and personally, I do resent that a bit. So, I'm to take all my qualifications and add this Thai thing to it. Will I get more money? NO! Will it give me more respect with my peers? NO!. It is simply a way to drive foreigners out of Thailand or to take their money.

[s1214215]

My friend managed to get through to the Teachers Council of Thailand. He asked for me what the current requirements are for someone with a degree and a TEFL/CELTA.

The person he spoke at the TCT to said that at the moment all that is requied is a degree and 1 years teaching experience, and that I should apply for a teaching licence with that. When asked about what will be the future requirements, this person said to just wait and see.

Sounds to me TCT is not even sure then if their employee cant say for sure what will be the future requirement. I am getting another friend to call and ask again to see if we get a similar story.

Edited February 6, 2008 by s1214215

[haltes]

I'm all for self improvement and for teachers to be qualified as a) educators and subject matter experts but these plans IMO will be an unmitigated disaster and I think they will have to abandon this scheme as there will be hardly any teachers left if they do enforce it! There are so many issues that stem from this, but as time is limited, I will just address the main ones that initially spring to mind.

The first issue is salaries which are low in any case. Simply put, they don't pay enough to attract enough qualified staff. People don't care if salaries are high in relation to what Thai staff get as teachers, salaries are still low in relation to western standards and the cost of living for a westerner living in Thailand. Teaching is a slave of market forces, the best or best qualified teachers will aspire to the best paying jobs/best conditions etc. Although some people might have an overriding desire to be in Thailand for a variety of reasons, making it so hard/inconvenient/expensive to stay and work here will mean people go elsewhere.

The second issue is that we know that the training they give on this course will probably be <deleted>, badly conceived, ill thought out, and tested in a very questionanable and probably subjective way.

The effects (if implemented) will act as a deterent for any new teachers who are thinking of coming to work here while at the same time encourage any people who are already working here to depart rather than face the never ending stream of requirements that change often, are retroactive in nature, and are unpredictable. Will they be willing to lose face and admit that this whole situation is a fiasco albeit with highly laudable intentions? Don't bet on it.

[Scott]

It's a difficult poll because it's not easy to judge. I think it's good that some of the riff-raff is being weeded out and there is plenty of it. For most experienced and qualified teachers it will be minimally effective, however.

[Ijustwannateach]

No one has yet explained to me what is going to happen when new teachers (i.e., those who are not on some sort of "grace period") are needed. 5 years from now, say- a teacher quits, is fired, or dies- School X needs a new teacher.

WHERE will they find one who has the required "culture course" already? At another school- oh, I see... and when the teacher leaves THAT school... ???????

Harebrained.

"S"

[Ijustwannateach]

I'm all for self improvement and for teachers to be qualified as a) educators and subject matter experts but these plans IMO will be an unmitigated disaster and I think they will have to abandon this scheme as there will be hardly any teachers left if they do enforce it! There are so many issues that stem from this, but as time is limited, I will just address the main ones that initially spring to mind.

The first issue is salaries which are low in any case. Simply put, they don't pay enough to attract enough qualified staff. People don't care if salaries are high in relation to what Thai staff get as teachers, salaries are still low in relation to western standards and the cost of living for a westerner living in Thailand. Teaching is a slave of market forces, the best or best qualified teachers will aspire to the best paying jobs/best conditions etc. Although some people might have an overriding desire to be in Thailand for a variety of reasons, making it so hard/inconvenient/expensive to stay and work here will mean people go elsewhere.

The second issue is that we know that the training they give on this course will probably be <deleted>, badly conceived, ill thought out, and tested in a very questionanable and probably subjective way.

The effects (if implemented) will act as a deterent for any new teachers who are thinking of coming to work here while at the same time encourage any people who are already working here to depart rather than face the never ending stream of requirements that change often, are retroactive in nature, and are unpredictable. Will they be willing to lose face and admit that this whole situation is a fiasco albeit with highly laudable intentions? Don't bet on it.

Where's that applause smiley?

Good to see you around again, Haltes!