Appeals Court drops alleged unlawful 2010 military crackdown case against Abhisit and Suthep

[louse1953]

This is the reason I thought the charges were ridiculous in the first place So why put everyone through this Circus. Just don't charge them in the beginning

What a waist of court costs and manpower AMAZING THAILAND

Your right,a waste of time and resources,but this is how Thailand operates.Sue,counter sue,and the lawyers always get paid.It was a bluff pulled by the man overseas and he has failed again.

[Eric Loh]

Shoot your own citizens in cold blood (N.B. not one piece of evidence, image or video, of an armed protester being shot) & get off scot-free. Give subsidies to poor farmers & be liable for billions.

What a complete farce!

Wow ! No evidence ?

How much do you need?

Ever heard of youtube?

I have seen many vdo's of guys being shot by a sniper just seconds before they threw a molotov cocktail, also one was being shot while wielding an axe, another one a spear, those snipers saved many lives, bro !!

Can you write Thai? If so, there is zillions more on thai news sites you can search for.

You think those under siege and fire will armed themselves with flowers too be thrown?

[louse1953]

Chokchai Angkaew, a lawyer representing the families, said he will collect more evidence and appeal the ruling. Being prime minister and deputy prime minister, he said, did not mean they could authorize murder.

exactly.

[/quot

When there is insurection on the streets and the people where told to move repeatedly,bus's provided and they refused,this is what happens.When the Army was fired upon they took appropriate action to defend themselves.If people don't want to die,move when you are told by the govt.Therefore they are not guilty.

[louse1953]

These filthy murderous scumbags need to be imprisoned for life.

Brave man with the libel laws in this country,even if it was remotely true.

[luckyman]

Shoot your own citizens in cold blood (N.B. not one piece of evidence, image or video, of an armed protester being shot) & get off scot-free. Give subsidies to poor farmers & be liable for billions.

What a complete farce!

Wow ! No evidence ?

How much do you need?

Ever heard of youtube?

I have seen many vdo's of guys being shot by a sniper just seconds before they threw a molotov cocktail, also one was being shot while wielding an axe, another one a spear, those snipers saved many lives, bro !!

Can you write Thai? If so, there is zillions more on thai news sites you can search for.

You think those under siege and fire will armed themselves with flowers too be thrown?

Your English is a bit off, Eric Loh, and I know that name, do you live in Phuket by the way, near the marina?

But eitherway, you are assuming something which is besides the point, the op claimed there was no evidence which I replied to, also it is not about what I think either, it is about what and how it happened.

My advice, check all the footage yourself first with your own eyes and then come back with a smart comment, okay?

[luckyman]

Chokchai Angkaew, a lawyer representing the families, said he will collect more evidence and appeal the ruling. Being prime minister and deputy prime minister, he said, did not mean they could authorize murder.

exactly.

[/quot

When there is insurection on the streets and the people where told to move repeatedly,bus's provided and they refused,this is what happens.When the Army was fired upon they took appropriate action to defend themselves.If people don't want to die,move when you are told by the govt.Therefore they are not guilty.

Exactly, well said!

And look at what happens everywhere in the world today, a prime minister has to authorize murder sometimes, part of the job I am afraid.

Or how would you call for example what Cameron did when he ordered air strikes over Syria quite recently?

[Eric Loh]

Chokchai Angkaew, a lawyer representing the families, said he will collect more evidence and appeal the ruling. Being prime minister and deputy prime minister, he said, did not mean they could authorize murder.

exactly.

[/quot

When there is insurection on the streets and the people where told to move repeatedly,bus's provided and they refused,this is what happens.When the Army was fired upon they took appropriate action to defend themselves.If people don't want to die,move when you are told by the govt.Therefore they are not guilty.

It's their constitutional right to demonstrate. The argument is whether the government has tried hard enough to negotiate and whether non lethal method should have been used. Apparently not in this case contrast with the amount of tolerance during the PDRC demonstration.

[louse1953]

This is the reason I thought the charges were ridiculous in the first place So why put everyone through this Circus. Just don't charge them in the beginning

What a waist of court costs and manpower AMAZING THAILAND

These charges were ridiculous and should never have been brought. They were simply doing their job of stopping the 'red' murders from escalating and were perfectly within their rights and powers to do so, so hard luck Thaksin - no charges against Abhisit and Suthep AND your ploy of getting a blanket amnesty was blown out of the water!! Loser!! .

The job of govt leaders is to quell protests using minimum force, hence the army warning to the PTP govt during the last upheaval. It isn't their job to order a mass killing.

They should be taken to The Hague and tried by a court that isn't made up of their drinking buddies.

When the Army is fired upon it is their duty to defend themselves and as Thailands Army to defend Thailand.

[yardrunner]

These filthy murderous scumbags need to be imprisoned for life.

do you mean Abhisit and Suthep

[Dumbastheycome]

Reasonable outcome which should come as no surprise when looking at justification was to "restore peace and order in the country" When one looks at what the UDD element did before a single bullet was fired by the military to squash the uprising one can understand that peace and order was already spiralling out of control and would have kept getting worse had the military not stepped in. Harsh words, tear gas and rubber bullets certainly didn't work and the lethargy of the govt in fact made the UDD element more brazen,

When looking at the violence perpetrated by the UDD before a single bullet was fired one could surmise that Ahbisit and Suthep should answer as to why they did not react sooner and harder to the violence instead of letting it spiral out of control to the point they did.

Anyway, a just and reasonable outcome in this instance. Well done to them both.

Long time no propaganda from you. Have you been sick recently during all the bad news about the current government?

There has been bad news? Or just propaganda against?

[baboon]

Has anyone noticed the ever so gradual revising of history going on among some of the pro junta faction? In due course I suspect they will have us believe that the Yingluck government came to power by force of arms and subsequently engaged in a historically unprecedented campaign of genocide against the country, costing millions upon millions of lives until the armed forces who are incapable of doing any wrong asked them nicely to stop, which they decided to do.

Just give it time...

[FredNL]

Thailand at it's best.

[tbthailand]

This appeal decision just reinforces a basic fault in the Thai judicial system and its laws.

People acting as public officials are not held to the same judicial process as people who act as individuals.

The disparity between the two judicial systems is further exacerbated by much weaker penalties for public officials than for individuals.

The standards of Justice should apply equally to all peoples, regardless of their employment.

No it shows that they just went to the wrong court, they should have gone to the same court that is now doing the YL case

The Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Holders of Political Positions

robblok, if you had been following this, then you would know that the path to the other court goes through the nacc and the nacc has already decided that these two clowns did nothing wrong... In other words, the other option to see justice done is a dead end.

See, first the NACC pretended that they would take this issue seriously... http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1420447520

But of course the NACC are junta lackeys, so they didn't really ever intend to do anything to these "good people"... http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/NACC-clears-Abhisit-Suthep-and-Anupong-30275895.html

NACC secretary general Sansern Polajiak said ... the graft agency found that the specific charges for failure to review the use of military force, dereliction of duty and intentionally ordering the killing of innocents, resulting in the loss of lives and assets, had no basis in fact.

This moron also goes on to say:

Sansern said authorities followed legal procedures and international-standard measures to disperse protesters by warning them to leave the area before security forces moved in.

which is a statement that ignores the fact that:

• the military used "live fire" zones which is not part of any international standard
• the military killed around 60 protesters during the 5 days leading up to the 19th of May and not one of them was (1) armed with more than a sling shot, or (2) wearing a "black" shirt.
• the DSI and the courts have already determined that at least 20 deaths of protestors, journalists, and aid workers were due to the military.

Sooooooo, to pretend that this is just a mistake in filing the case is ignorance at it's height and denial of a massive white-wash to clear the military and the politicians involved in this massacre.

In my humble opinion...

[GrahamAW]

Obviously home to a few blinkered anarchists on here! There is absolutely nowhere in the western world where a bunch of marauding thugs would have been permitted to barricade themselves into a central part of the city and run riot!! As someone else already pointed out, it should never have been allowed to get to that stage in the first place.

[kennw]

The decision reasoning is sound, we also know that the charges were originally brought to try and establish a bargaining basis for the fugitive's amnesty. Many believe as I do they should have cracked down much earlier as this may have avoided some of the bloodshed.

[tbthailand]

Chokchai Angkaew, a lawyer representing the families, said he will collect more evidence and appeal the ruling. Being prime minister and deputy prime minister, he said, did not mean they could authorize murder.

exactly.

[/quot

When there is insurection on the streets and the people where told to move repeatedly,bus's provided and they refused,this is what happens.When the Army was fired upon they took appropriate action to defend themselves.If people don't want to die,move when you are told by the govt.Therefore they are not guilty.

It's their constitutional right to demonstrate. The argument is whether the government has tried hard enough to negotiate and whether non lethal method should have been used. Apparently not in this case contrast with the amount of tolerance during the PDRC demonstration.

"Louse" is in lala land.

2010

2 months, multiple attacks by the army, nearly 100 known dead, most of them during the final 6 day assault where not one soldier was killed by a protester.

2013/14

6 months, 28 people die, (a number which includes the police killed by protesters), violent disruption of elections, BKK shutdown, government offices occupied, the only military action was to overthrow the elected government. Oh, and the courts found that the protests were "peaceful" and that the protesters had a constitutional right to protest...

Such is the history of Thailand when the rich and the generals get their way.

[waitforusalso]

Shoot your own citizens in cold blood (N.B. not one piece of evidence, image or video, of an armed protester being shot) & get off scot-free. Give subsidies to poor farmers & be liable for billions.

What a complete farce!

Wow ! No evidence ?

How much do you need?

Ever heard of youtube?

I have seen many vdo's of guys being shot by a sniper just seconds before they threw a molotov cocktail, also one was being shot while wielding an axe, another one a spear, those snipers saved many lives, bro !!

Can you write Thai? If so, there is zillions more on thai news sites you can search for.

Yes, I can write Thai. Why that is relevant, I don't know. Surely reading Thai would be more pertinent, for Thai news sites.

All I need is 1 photograph of an armed red (or black) shirt protester that has been shot dead. Post the image as a reply to this post.

[tbthailand]

Re Yingluk and the rice scam------------------will the ruling likely be the same... that she acted as an authorised official empowered by laws, and not as an individual?

"The Appeals Court reasoned that Mr Abhisit and Mr Suthep issued the crackdown order in their capacity as prime minister and deputy prime minister in charge of the Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES) in order to restore peace and order in the country.

Therefore they issued crackdown orders not as individuals but as authorised officials empowered by laws.

Therefore their orders were lawful and were not considered power abuses as they were charged"

A predictable and just outcome for them and a predictable argument from the UDD apologists:

The answer is this: It was reasonable for them to restore order under the circumstances. It was not reasonable for her to never attend one meeting of a body that she was chair of and instead try to "shoot the messenger" instead of investigate the corruption allegations when told of them. There are also irregularities of the budgeting in the face of the known failure of the scheme & her lack total of provision to pay the rice debtors on time. I guess we will have to see what else they have to show as evidence of avoidable (deliberate, known??) negligence.

I know the UDD/Redshirt/PTP apologists want to dress these two cases up to look the same but they are as different as chalk & cheese. I'm sorry boys! They are altogether different circumstances, similar only in your hopeful eyes.

you're right deerhunter. these cases are not at all the same.

yingluck should be tried for corruption/negligence and put in jail if found guilty.

abhisit and suthep should be put in jail for life for mass murder. A certain general should be in a cell next to them.

[waitforusalso]

Obviously home to a few blinkered anarchists on here! There is absolutely nowhere in the western world where a bunch of marauding thugs would have been permitted to barricade themselves into a central part of the city and run riot!! As someone else already pointed out, it should never have been allowed to get to that stage in the first place.

So why were Suthep's mob allowed to "barricade themselves into a central part of the city and run riot"?

As soon as the police made an effort to move them, they threw a grenade and started shooting from behind barricades.

The only difference in violence levels between the reds and yellows was that one had to defend itself against an aggressive heavily armed advancing army, and the other had explicit support from the same people.

[Baerboxer]

Re Yingluk and the rice scam------------------will the ruling likely be the same... that she acted as an authorised official empowered by laws, and not as an individual?

"The Appeals Court reasoned that Mr Abhisit and Mr Suthep issued the crackdown order in their capacity as prime minister and deputy prime minister in charge of the Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES) in order to restore peace and order in the country.

Therefore they issued crackdown orders not as individuals but as authorised officials empowered by laws.

Therefore their orders were lawful and were not considered power abuses as they were charged"

I think Abhisit and Suthep actually turned up to manage CRES.

Yingluck never bothered turning up, that's why she's charged with negligence. If she had have turned up she could have acted as an empowered official. But easier not to bother, deny everything and simply lie.

[baboon]

Obviously home to a few blinkered anarchists on here! There is absolutely nowhere in the western world where a bunch of marauding thugs would have been permitted to barricade themselves into a central part of the city and run riot!! As someone else already pointed out, it should never have been allowed to get to that stage in the first place.

An absolute refusal to concede that there may have been some with legitimate political grievances. No, each and every one was a thug who deserve anything they get, end of.

What hope can there ever be of any kind of reconciliation if attitudes like this prevail in wider society? It really is hugely troubling.

[Thunder26]

What a shocker!!!

Why is it a shocker? The red shirts literally were burning Bangkok down. Unlawful behaviour should be punished!

[Baerboxer]

Obviously home to a few blinkered anarchists on here! There is absolutely nowhere in the western world where a bunch of marauding thugs would have been permitted to barricade themselves into a central part of the city and run riot!! As someone else already pointed out, it should never have been allowed to get to that stage in the first place.

So why were Suthep's mob allowed to "barricade themselves into a central part of the city and run riot"?

As soon as the police made an effort to move them, they threw a grenade and started shooting from behind barricades.

The only difference in violence levels between the reds and yellows was that one had to defend itself against an aggressive heavily armed advancing army, and the other had explicit support from the same people.

The police are consistent. No attempts to remove the red shirt insurgents (surprise surprise) and back off quickly against the anti Shin protesters.

The difference was one was a manipulated hired mob, with armed mercenaries mixed in, supporting the Shins whilst the other was a manipulated mob opposing the Shins.

Edited February 18, 2016 by metisdead

[Baerboxer]

Re Yingluk and the rice scam------------------will the ruling likely be the same... that she acted as an authorised official empowered by laws, and not as an individual?

"The Appeals Court reasoned that Mr Abhisit and Mr Suthep issued the crackdown order in their capacity as prime minister and deputy prime minister in charge of the Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES) in order to restore peace and order in the country.

Therefore they issued crackdown orders not as individuals but as authorised officials empowered by laws.

Therefore their orders were lawful and were not considered power abuses as they were charged"

A predictable and just outcome for them and a predictable argument from the UDD apologists:

The answer is this: It was reasonable for them to restore order under the circumstances. It was not reasonable for her to never attend one meeting of a body that she was chair of and instead try to "shoot the messenger" instead of investigate the corruption allegations when told of them. There are also irregularities of the budgeting in the face of the known failure of the scheme & her lack total of provision to pay the rice debtors on time. I guess we will have to see what else they have to show as evidence of avoidable (deliberate, known??) negligence.

I know the UDD/Redshirt/PTP apologists want to dress these two cases up to look the same but they are as different as chalk & cheese. I'm sorry boys! They are altogether different circumstances, similar only in your hopeful eyes.

you're right deerhunter. these cases are not at all the same.

yingluck should be tried for corruption/negligence and put in jail if found guilty.

abhisit and suthep should be put in jail for life for mass murder. A certain general should be in a cell next to them.

And what about those who led the 2010 insurgency? The ones who called for Bangkok to be burnt down, the ones who stirred things up with rhetoric whether in person or by video? The ones who financed and organized the protesters and the armed elements within? The ones who promised they would be held responsible but never were? The one who promised to be on the front line if shots were fired, but went to Paris shopping instead?

Should they be tried for treason and put in jail for life if found guilty. An agreement was made, which would have avoided bloodshed and deaths. But someone didn't want that and broke the agreement. Should that person be identified, should he/she be tried too?

[Baerboxer]

Obviously home to a few blinkered anarchists on here! There is absolutely nowhere in the western world where a bunch of marauding thugs would have been permitted to barricade themselves into a central part of the city and run riot!! As someone else already pointed out, it should never have been allowed to get to that stage in the first place.

An absolute refusal to concede that there may have been some with legitimate political grievances. No, each and every one was a thug who deserve anything they get, end of.

What hope can there ever be of any kind of reconciliation if attitudes like this prevail in wider society? It really is hugely troubling.

I'm sure there were some protesting in 2010 who were driven by legitimate political grievances. And there were many protesting against an unjust Amnesty who also had legitimate political grievances.

But both get hi-jacked by either the Shins and their cronies or the established elite "old guard". Those two elements form the hardcore left when the genuine protesters have dispersed, and will never reconcile with one another. Each side wants dominance and will do anything to get it. Whilst that continues, there will be little if any political and social development; which is very troubling indeed.

[lucky11]

Re Yingluk and the rice scam------------------will the ruling likely be the same... that she acted as an authorised official empowered by laws, and not as an individual?

"The Appeals Court reasoned that Mr Abhisit and Mr Suthep issued the crackdown order in their capacity as prime minister and deputy prime minister in charge of the Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES) in order to restore peace and order in the country.

Therefore they issued crackdown orders not as individuals but as authorised officials empowered by laws.

Therefore their orders were lawful and were not considered power abuses as they were charged"

A predictable and just outcome for them and a predictable argument from the UDD apologists:

The answer is this: It was reasonable for them to restore order under the circumstances. It was not reasonable for her to never attend one meeting of a body that she was chair of and instead try to "shoot the messenger" instead of investigate the corruption allegations when told of them. There are also irregularities of the budgeting in the face of the known failure of the scheme & her lack total of provision to pay the rice debtors on time. I guess we will have to see what else they have to show as evidence of avoidable (deliberate, known??) negligence.

I know the UDD/Redshirt/PTP apologists want to dress these two cases up to look the same but they are as different as chalk & cheese. I'm sorry boys! They are altogether different circumstances, similar only in your hopeful eyes.

you're right deerhunter. these cases are not at all the same.

yingluck should be tried for corruption/negligence and put in jail if found guilty.

abhisit and suthep should be put in jail for life for mass murder. A certain general should be in a cell next to them.

And what about those who led the 2010 insurgency? The ones who called for Bangkok to be burnt down, the ones who stirred things up with rhetoric whether in person or by video? The ones who financed and organized the protesters and the armed elements within? The ones who promised they would be held responsible but never were? The one who promised to be on the front line if shots were fired, but went to Paris shopping instead?

Should they be tried for treason and put in jail for life if found guilty. An agreement was made, which would have avoided bloodshed and deaths. But someone didn't want that and broke the agreement. Should that person be identified, should he/she be tried too?

Ouch!!

[baboon]

Obviously home to a few blinkered anarchists on here! There is absolutely nowhere in the western world where a bunch of marauding thugs would have been permitted to barricade themselves into a central part of the city and run riot!! As someone else already pointed out, it should never have been allowed to get to that stage in the first place.

An absolute refusal to concede that there may have been some with legitimate political grievances. No, each and every one was a thug who deserve anything they get, end of.

What hope can there ever be of any kind of reconciliation if attitudes like this prevail in wider society? It really is hugely troubling.

I'm sure there were some protesting in 2010 who were driven by legitimate political grievances. And there were many protesting against an unjust Amnesty who also had legitimate political grievances.

But both get hi-jacked by either the Shins and their cronies or the established elite "old guard". Those two elements form the hardcore left when the genuine protesters have dispersed, and will never reconcile with one another. Each side wants dominance and will do anything to get it. Whilst that continues, there will be little if any political and social development; which is very troubling indeed.

Fair dinkum response. Far more helpful than the 'Look, we're entirely right and you're entirely wrong. Subject closed.' flapdoodle so depressingly prevalent among some on here. At least it offers a glimmer of hope...

[sweatalot]

What a shocker!!!

But the reasoning is sound, they were not private persons they were government employees. Just a fail by whoever filed the charge.

We also know why the chargers were filed.. to make the amnesty for Thaksin possible.. he thought to blackmail them into supporting the amnesty.

But the reasoning is sound,

what a bunch of nonsense. The reasoning is contrived to fit the circumstances.

These creeps will never face the music, nor will the military leaders who controlled the troops.

face the music ....

for what?

restoring peace and order?

[robblok]

This appeal decision just reinforces a basic fault in the Thai judicial system and its laws.

People acting as public officials are not held to the same judicial process as people who act as individuals.

The disparity between the two judicial systems is further exacerbated by much weaker penalties for public officials than for individuals.

The standards of Justice should apply equally to all peoples, regardless of their employment.

No it shows that they just went to the wrong court, they should have gone to the same court that is now doing the YL case

The Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Holders of Political Positions

robblok, if you had been following this, then you would know that the path to the other court goes through the nacc and the nacc has already decided that these two clowns did nothing wrong... In other words, the other option to see justice done is a dead end.

See, first the NACC pretended that they would take this issue seriously... http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1420447520

But of course the NACC are junta lackeys, so they didn't really ever intend to do anything to these "good people"... http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/NACC-clears-Abhisit-Suthep-and-Anupong-30275895.html

NACC secretary general Sansern Polajiak said ... the graft agency found that the specific charges for failure to review the use of military force, dereliction of duty and intentionally ordering the killing of innocents, resulting in the loss of lives and assets, had no basis in fact.

This moron also goes on to say:

Sansern said authorities followed legal procedures and international-standard measures to disperse protesters by warning them to leave the area before security forces moved in.

which is a statement that ignores the fact that:

• the military used "live fire" zones which is not part of any international standard
• the military killed around 60 protesters during the 5 days leading up to the 19th of May and not one of them was (1) armed with more than a sling shot, or (2) wearing a "black" shirt.
• the DSI and the courts have already determined that at least 20 deaths of protestors, journalists, and aid workers were due to the military.

Sooooooo, to pretend that this is just a mistake in filing the case is ignorance at it's height and denial of a massive white-wash to clear the military and the politicians involved in this massacre.

In my humble opinion...

Tough luck.. its still the wrong court.. so the court is right to throw it out.. you did not even read your own article. The court said it was the wrong place for this case.. (Khaosod article). Now they are just reconfirming it (still the same court).

Indeed the NACC should have brought it to the court i mentioned earlier but obviously there was no case according to them. Seems about right as it was only after armed blackshirts came that the army started to fire. Sure the army made mistakes but Abisith never told them to use live rounds. Go after the army not Abisith who was right clearing out the armed terrorist that held the city hostage with their bombings and who indeed burned part of BKK and had people on stage urging them to burn BKK.

I agree that there were mistakes made.. by both sides.. but that was the army and blackshirts.. maybe Thaksin should be responsible for his hiring of the blackshirts ? Or do you feel that only Abisith is responsible for the army. I bet your not that consistent or you see the blackshirts just like the army as a separate entitiy or you say Thaksin is as guilty as Abisith.

[Baerboxer]

Obviously home to a few blinkered anarchists on here! There is absolutely nowhere in the western world where a bunch of marauding thugs would have been permitted to barricade themselves into a central part of the city and run riot!! As someone else already pointed out, it should never have been allowed to get to that stage in the first place.

So why were Suthep's mob allowed to "barricade themselves into a central part of the city and run riot"?

As soon as the police made an effort to move them, they threw a grenade and started shooting from behind barricades.

The only difference in violence levels between the reds and yellows was that one had to defend itself against an aggressive heavily armed advancing army, and the other had explicit support from the same people.

The police are consistent. No attempts to remove the red shirt insurgents (surprise surprise) and back off quickly against the anti Shin protesters.

The difference was one was a manipulated hired mob, with armed mercenaries mixed in, supporting the Shins whilst the other was a manipulated mob opposing the Shins.

I guess you would back off quickly too if confronted with grenades and gunfire

468855358.jpg

"with armed mercenaries mixed in"...which group was that???

download.jpg

Did they back off for the same reasons in 2010? Oh, that's right, they never even tried in 2010.