Living offgrid with small solar system(s)

[Naam]

19 aircons and 7 water pumps.

Aircons i can imagine if you have many rooms. But, 7 waterpumps??????

Do you have a guesthouse??

I shall look up a quotation from a solar company for a house of a fam member of mine in jakarta who has 9 bedrooms and 12 aircons. If ill find it i will post it here.

8 pumps:

-2 house water supply.

-1 deepwell,

-1 pool,

-1 irrigation,

-2 pond,

-forgot 1 pump which serves a watercooled aircon.

no guesthouse but a small staff house with 2 aircons.

[Naam]

forget about any quotation George. technically there is no feasible way to satisfy my power demand by PV. the aircons and the lack of roof and land space makes any attempt futile.

[TheCruncher]

Sounds as if the purpose of super capacitors goes way over your head, same as the purpose of a 50 Baht check valve went over your head for years.

quite right you are because the 50 Baht check valve is mounted approximately 8 meters above my head. not since years (plural) but only one year (singular).

no super capacitors anywhere over my head as rice is cooked in our kitchen the conventional way which is (i believe but i'm not sure) a ricecooker.

is there any other (not so) intelligent technical input or judgment that we can inspect from you? don't hesitate, we are all friends here. büllshit amuses us.

How about that super capacitor making it possible to use that conventional rice cooker to be powered by solar energy?

Be careful not to put your head too deep in the sand with your next reply.

[George Harmony]

Back to solar. There is a company in holland who make this kind of solar rooftiles and they are bussy. Here in indonesia is also such a factory but the quality is still not so good. If its the same quality as in NL i will sure order these and replace (part of) my roof. Very good idea.

[Naam]

solar rooftiles

at first glance a brilliant idea! it would be interesting to have more details.

[Naam]

http://www.theecoexperts.co.uk/solar-roof-tiles

[IMHO]

19 aircons and 7 water pumps.

Aircons i can imagine if you have many rooms. But, 7 waterpumps??????

Do you have a guesthouse??

I shall look up a quotation from a solar company for a house of a fam member of mine in jakarta who has 9 bedrooms and 12 aircons. If ill find it i will post it here.

I have 7 water pumps also:

1 Main house

1 Guest house

1 Auxiliary (for tank-tank filtration)

1 Ground pump

3 Pool pumps

I only have 9 aircons though

[IMHO]

Back to solar. There is a company in holland who make this kind of solar rooftiles and they are bussy. Here in indonesia is also such a factory but the quality is still not so good. If its the same quality as in NL i will sure order these and replace (part of) my roof. Very good idea.

There a few companies now marketing solar roadways too

http://www.solarroadways.com/Product/Features

[IMHO]

i do not detest solar power but i am a poor man who can't even afford a photovoltaic system that can supply power or starting amps to 10% of the electric gadgets in my home and garden.

You made me curieus @naam. What kind of electric gadgets? Is it possible to posts some picts.

For a swimmig pool is this a solution:

That is a DC pump with speed controller - which is one way I mentioned it could be possible earlier in this thread

The question is: does it have enough flow rate for your pool? Based on what I can see that pump is probably 0.5HP - as an educated guess, I'd say enough for maybe 10,000L pool (that's a very, very small pool) if running just 4 hours/day on PV.

Generally speaking for a relatively idle, domestic pool you want to turn over the whole pool volume at least once per day (ideally, twice). If you have 4 hours (+/-) of usable sunshine, that's a about double flow rate than what's normally specified, as most standard mains powered systems are designed for ~8 hours runtime.

At times when your pool sees high swimmer loads you'll want an even higher turnover rate to keep the water clean. My pool has an additional pump and filter I turn on at these times that then gives me a ~3 hour combined total turnover rate - and from time to time, I absolutely need that kind of flow rate to keep the water clean.

Note: Whatever flow rate your pump advertises, halve it to get reality - once pipes, and an already partially contaminated filter are factored in, that's about all you can rely on it doing.

Edited March 14, 2016 by IMHO

[Muhendis]

I feel so inadequate now I only have 4 aircons and 6 water pumps and one of those pumps is for pushing water to the other end of the farm.

I don't have a pool but I do go for a swim in my 1 Rai lake when the water's deep enough.

Although those roof tile solar cells are an innovative idea, don't forget that here in the tropics the angle of the PV cells is closer to horizontal and so dust and other debris needs to be cleaned off occasionally. In Holland the roof slope makes this sort of maintenance negligible plus it probably rains more there. My panels are mounted on a flat carport roof where I can walk around them for the occasional dusting/washing.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Muhendis

[Naam]

Whatever flow rate your pump advertises, halve it to get reality - once pipes, and an already partially contaminated filter are factored in

[Muhendis]

Yep! Understand that flow rate and maximum head are specifications which are completely separate from each other but combined by marketing to look good. If the maximum head is 5 Metres then the flow rate will probably be a dribble and if the maximum flow rate is 200 Litres/minute then that is probably at zero head.

[George Harmony]

You know i am very very very happy with my 2 new mini usb fans, my 2.1amp dc pump and as reserve a (pump) tool to connect to a bormachine (electric drill). :)

Long live KIS.......

[George Harmony]

I remember i was on holiday in SPain and at that bungalow park was a swimming pool. Every day a worker filters the water with a portable thing which looks like vacuumcleaner. Looks not so powerful. There was no pump build in in the pool.

Is it possible to have a swimming pool which you only filter and no build in pipes/pump.

[Jing Joe]

I feel so inadequate now I only have 4 aircons and 6 water pumps and one of those pumps is for pushing water to the other end of the farm.

I don't have a pool but I do go for a swim in my 1 Rai lake when the water's deep enough.

Although those roof tile solar cells are an innovative idea, don't forget that here in the tropics the angle of the PV cells is closer to horizontal and so dust and other debris needs to be cleaned off occasionally. In Holland the roof slope makes this sort of maintenance negligible plus it probably rains more there. My panels are mounted on a flat carport roof where I can walk around them for the occasional dusting/washing.

M You feel inadequate ! I have one 240v portable evaporative cooler, 1 water pump that fills the 300 gallon header tank and 1 for the vegetable hydroponics.

But to catch up with you guys, I'm making an evaporative cooler on the roof to blow air downward using a 240v motor/squirrel blade fan and solar powered 12v water pump.

Also on the roof will be 150 m of coiled 19mm black poly pipe that will need a 24v solar powered TOPSFLO pump to circulate hot day-water through the floor slab pipes in winter, and circulate cool water at night in summer from a small 240v to 24v P/Supply.

Solar panel angles versus summer/winter are critical if you don't want the sun shining on their backs, outside the daylight hours of 9am to 3pm in summer. Its surprising how much rain is needed to really clean the dust off, and the flatter they are the worse it gets.

Re how many air-cons, pools etc, I think back about the movie "The gods must be crazy" where the people had "nothing", but in another sense they had "everything"; that could really matter to them. I guess we all have a compromise somewhere inbetween these extremes and live and let live.

Even as relatively basic my setup is, there's always something needing maintenance so the KISS principle is uppermost in when I'm designing.

The solar pipe heating/cooling project is next followed by;- roof evaporative cooler, solar charged electric farm tuk tuk, the solar roofed battery-electric vehicle, solar powered aquaculture, (with solar charged battery for UV, white, blue and green LEDS at night to attract insects to fall in the water. Tested this recently to catch mosquitoes using; fan, LEDS and net. Lots of insects but few mozzies)

BTW ladies and gentlemen is it feasible to have an appropriate bank of TOPSFLO small pumps to do any smaller swimming pool filtering? They are so cheap, probably very efficient because they are;- magnetically coupled, brushless, 24/7 capable and P.V friendly. All sorts of protection built-in but probably need to have the inlet flooded effectively below surface level. Can be made submersible too. It means not having all the eggs in one basket with just one filter pump. Some filter design considerations needed with all your clever minds.

How does 22litres per minute at 55w max sound? http://www.topsflo.com/dc-brushless-pump/tl-c01-centrifugal-dc-mini-pump.html

New automobile version with 37 Litres/minute at 60Watts max. http://www.topsflo.com/special-pumps/electric-auto-circulation-pump.html

Edited March 15, 2016 by Jing Joe

[Naam]

flow rate for your pool...

...drops indeed tremendously when pumping against resistance of piping and filter. i measured actual performance once when pumping out my pool.

Hayward 2hp, rated capacity 380l/h, filter bypassed net flow rate ~240l/h = -37%

note: my pool is rather small, volume 43m³, average filtering time only 3½ hours/day because no external contamination.

[Naam]

How does 22litres per minute at 55w max sound?

sounds very efficient!

[Jing Joe]

I remember i was on holiday in Spain and at that bungalow park was a swimming pool. Every day a worker filters the water with a portable thing which looks like vacuum cleaner. Looks not so powerful. There was no pump build in in the pool.

Is it possible to have a swimming pool which you only filter and no build in pipes/pump.

George. basics dictate that movement of the water needs energy. Any external "vacuum cleaner" device you saw needed power. Would you touch a 240v device near a pool? Not this little black duck. Pardon the aquatic pun.

You guys have quoted figures for best practice for filtering turnover, and surely the Spain pool device was bordering on cosmetic for customer appeal and a possible swimming pool authority if there is such there?

Avoiding built-in plumbing just needs more suitable design than you witnessed?

Edited March 15, 2016 by Jing Joe

[Naam]

Some filter design considerations needed with all your clever minds.

easiest solution would be washable filter bags

[Jing Joe]

Some filter design considerations needed with all your clever minds.

easiest solution would be washable filter bags

Do filters operate under pressure Naam? if not; could all the pumps feed into one manifold then into just one washable gravity-fed filter bag you suggest?

Individual pump outputs should be able to be visibly monitored, given appropriate manifold design.

I have no idea of volumes of water turnover but is 67 litres/ minute multiplied by say 10 feasibly enough for what size pool?

Naam some answers have come thanks by my looking carefully at your recent posts and has given me fresh hope that we will have a solar powered smaller pool after all. (with these modern pumps available that is).

Edited March 15, 2016 by Jing Joe

[George Harmony]

But to catch up with you guys, I'm making an evaporative cooler on the roof to blow air downward using a 240v motor/squirrel blade fan and solar powered 12v water pump.

Also on the roof will be 150 m of coiled 19mm black poly pipe that will need a 24v solar powered TOPSFLO pump to circulate hot day-water through the floor slab pipes in winter, and circulate cool water at night in summer from a small 240v to 24v P/Supply.

Solar panel angles versus summer/winter are critical if you don't want the sun shining on their backs, outside the daylight hours of 9am to 3pm in summer. Its surprising how much rain is needed to really clean the dust off, and the flatter they are the worse it gets.

Re how many air-cons, pools etc, I think back about the movie "The gods must be crazy" where the people had "nothing", but in another sense they had "everything"; that could really matter to them. I guess we all have a compromise somewhere inbetween these extremes and live and let live.

Even as relatively basic my setup is, there's always something needing maintenance so the KISS principle is uppermost in when I'm designing.

Bravo .....a great initiative.

You blow coolair downwards. How about if hot air rising??

[IMHO]

Some filter design considerations needed with all your clever minds.

easiest solution would be washable filter bags

Do filters operate under pressure Naam? if not; could all the pumps feed into one manifold then into just one washable gravity-fed filter bag you suggest?

Individual pump outputs should be able to be visibly monitored, given appropriate manifold design.

I have no idea of volumes of water turnover but is 67 litres/ minute multiplied by say 10 feasibly enough for what size pool?

Naam some answers have come thanks by my looking carefully at your recent posts and has given me fresh hope that we will have a solar powered smaller pool after all. (with these modern pumps available that is).

Are we talking about pool filters still?

As sand filters get bigger, they actually get harder to push water through - as cartridges get bigger, they are easier to push water through. I have both types - when fully cleaned the sand filter has a static pressure of 5 PSI, the cartridge filter <1 PSI.

[IMHO]

How does 22litres per minute at 55w max sound?

sounds very efficient!

A typical 550W AC induction pump (0.75HP) does around 230L/min label rating - actual in service is more around 100-120L/min.

So, 22L/min @ 55W sounds about right.

But at an actual ~10L/min once it has plumbing and filter on it, and powered with just 4 hours of PV it's only circulating a 2,400L pool water tank ... 1,200L if you want to turn over the water twice every 24 hours (as is highly recommended for an outdoor pool).

i.e. not suitable for an actual pool. Not even one of those inflatable kids pools.

Edited March 15, 2016 by IMHO

[George Harmony]

I read here that houses have many waterpumps while im now looking at a rather big office with also 2 staff-houses in that complex behind/Adjacent to my fishpond operating with only 1 strong pump and a water tower. From far the water tank looks small but i think its a big one.

I myself use a small tank 450ltr 3m high and when i open all cranes and shower it works perfect. Before in my rented house was a sanyo well pump directly connected to the cranes. You open two cranes, one did not flow (no jetpump).

[IMHO]

Some filter design considerations needed with all your clever minds.

easiest solution would be washable filter bags

Do filters operate under pressure Naam? if not; could all the pumps feed into one manifold then into just one washable gravity-fed filter bag you suggest?

Individual pump outputs should be able to be visibly monitored, given appropriate manifold design.

I have no idea of volumes of water turnover but is 67 litres/ minute multiplied by say 10 feasibly enough for what size pool?

Naam some answers have come thanks by my looking carefully at your recent posts and has given me fresh hope that we will have a solar powered smaller pool after all. (with these modern pumps available that is).

67L/min = 4,020L/hr

If this was an outdoor pool (2 turnovers/day), powered by PV only (4 reliable harvesting hours/day) the pool could only be up to 8,000L small. e.g. even if just only 1M deep, it could be no bigger than 2M x 4M

In short, there's just no way you're doing even a modest sized pool without big wattage pumps.

Edited March 15, 2016 by IMHO

[George Harmony]

According to this guy he runs his pool pump during the day with his 4 x pv panels.

What i dont understand is why he needs some inverters????

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=REJSPQDJibc

[Naam]

Some filter design considerations needed with all your clever minds.

easiest solution would be washable filter bags

Do filters operate under pressure Naam? if not; could all the pumps feed into one manifold then into just one washable gravity-fed filter bag you suggest?

Individual pump outputs should be able to be visibly monitored, given appropriate manifold design.

I have no idea of volumes of water turnover but is 67 litres/ minute multiplied by say 10 feasibly enough for what size pool?

Naam some answers have come thanks by my looking carefully at your recent posts and has given me fresh hope that we will have a solar powered smaller pool after all. (with these modern pumps available that is).

67L/min = 4,020L/hr

If this was an outdoor pool (2 turnovers/day), powered by PV only (4 reliable harvesting hours/day) the pool could only be up to 8,000L small. e.g. even if just only 1M deep, it could be no bigger than 2M x 4M

In short, there's just no way you're doing even a modest sized pool without big wattage pumps.

you overlooked Joe's "multiplied by say 10" because he plans an array of small pumps.

[IMHO]

you overlooked Joe's "multiplied by say 10" because he plans an array of small pumps.

He can do the math I'm sure - I've even given him some pool dimensions to multiply

[IMHO]

According to this guy he runs his pool pump during the day with his 4 x pv panels.

What i dont understand is why he needs some inverters????

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=REJSPQDJibc

Because he's running a 110V AC pump

I'd like to see a demo of startup - running is easy

The biggest problems with PV powered pool pumps are:

1. How to start the pump

2. How to pump enough water while the sun shines for normal usage

3. How to pump when you have a night time pool party

4. How to pump it 24/7 when overcoming sanitation problems

Edited March 15, 2016 by IMHO

[Naam]

I read here that houses have many waterpumps while im now looking at a rather big office with also 2 staff-houses in that complex behind/Adjacent to my fishpond operating with only 1 strong pump and a water tower. From far the water tank looks small but i think its a big one.

I myself use a small tank 450ltr 3m high and when i open all cranes and shower it works perfect. Before in my rented house was a sanyo well pump directly connected to the cranes. You open two cranes, one did not flow (no jetpump).

yep, there are indeed crazy people who have more than one house-supply pump installed. but they have valid reasons (take my case) such as

-if one pump fails the people in my home can with the remaining pump flush many stinky-stinkies down the drain, have showers, wash dishes and cars.

I myself use a small tank 450ltr 3m high and when i open all cranes and shower it works perfect.

"perfect" is a matter of perspective because i consider 0.3 bar pressure to be