Living offgrid with small solar system(s)

[Muhendis]

All these olde worlde ideas being resurrected is great because although the amount of electricity they produce might be somewhat minimal we are in an age of minimising power consumption with LED lights and inverter fridges/air con. There is no reason why old, discarded technology should not be revisited. It may be quite relevant today on a small scale.

[Naam]

Can anyone explain me why they don't invent a battery which you only have to refresh with saltwater but then with a much bigger capacity, for example 12 volt 50ah.

If you live near the sea its then completely free.

i always thought hallucinogen drugs are illegal in Indonesia. little did i know

Chin up George. Don't let Naam get you down.

what is there to chin up when the wannabe offgrid guru doesn't even know that seawater has only a fraction of the required salt content?

there's no meaningful exchange of knowledge, experience and opinions possible when you deal with people who are not only ignorant and advice resistant but also arrogant and insulting (hehehe hahaha).

[George Harmony]

Can anyone explain me why they don't invent a battery which you only have to refresh with saltwater but then with a much bigger capacity, for example 12 volt 50ah.

If you live near the sea its then completely free.

i always thought hallucinogen drugs are illegal in Indonesia. little did i know

Chin up George. Don't let Naam get you down.

what is there to chin up when the wannabe offgrid guru doesn't even know that seawater has only a fraction of the required salt content?

there's no meaningful exchange of knowledge, experience and opinions possible when you deal with people who are not only ignorant and advice resistant but also arrogant and insulting (hehehe hahaha).

Never mind. If you take magnesium graphite salt water battery it works longer with SEAWATER than water+salt. This for you info, mr chief eng. Sure you know why or maybe not???

About salt water rechargeable deep cycle batteries which can be deep charge 90% is already an existing efficient battery type. Thats why im wondering why they dont invent a battery with bigger capacity than few volts with refreshing salt or sea water rather than solar dc or grid ac charging.

Edited May 29, 2016 by George Harmony

[George Harmony]

Here is another example of a "salt water" lamp charger.

A single EnergyCell PowerRod provides run times of over 250 hours, the equivalent of 85 conventional AA batteries.

PL-500 Personal Lantern features:

Battery-free technology. Just add salt-water to activate

Efficient LED personal portable lantern

Standard USB port & 2.5mm jack for charging external

devices and powering AL-100 Accessory Light

16 bright, long-life LEDs

Folding handle

PL-500 Specs

Power Source - Proprietary salt water EnergyCell

Light Source - 16 long-life LEDs

Charging Ports - standard USB & 2.5mm DC

Dimensions - approximately 11.7" high, 3.8" diameter

Runtime - 250+ hours per PowerRod

Attachments - AL-100 Accessory Light

Recyclable materials - yes

http://www.hydra-light.com/#!pl-500/c13ay

[Muhendis]

Can anyone explain me why they dont invent a battery which you only have to refresh with saltwater but then with a much bigger capacity, for example 12 volt 50ah.

If you live near the sea its then completely free.

George....You have been studying salt water batteries so you are probably asking a rhetorical question. The salt water battery is being marketed by Aquion (I think) as a stationary battery for use in off grid solar applications. It is an old technology which has been receiving much attention of late. The capabilities of Sodium batteries look better than others inasmuch as they are safe, have high power capability and are robust. I will find out more............

[Muhendis]

Further information on sodium batteries can be found here http://www.faradion.co.uk/technology/sodium-ion-technology/

There is no need for adding sea water or any other maintenance for that matter although I find that a bit difficult to believe. I do note the presence of some electronics in the picture of the battery pack so I suspect, as with LiFePO4 batteries, some balancing is required for best results.

[George Harmony]

Further information on sodium batteries can be found here http://www.faradion.co.uk/technology/sodium-ion-technology/

There is no need for adding sea water or any other maintenance for that matter although I find that a bit difficult to believe. I do note the presence of some electronics in the picture of the battery pack so I suspect, as with LiFePO4 batteries, some balancing is required for best results.

Interesting indeed.

Rechargeable batteries will be better and better.

Im looking now for more info for lighting with battaries that dont need to be charge with solar or other chargers, like the Salt lamp and the lantern made by an indonesian. Just put saltwater in and the lamp is burning. How can one make a more powerfull saltwater battery by just cleaning and then adding saltwater?? And how can one make such a setup themself with (waste) materials you use in your own home or easy and cheap to buy in stores.

Is there a way to achieve for for example "the bagdad battery" more volts and amp hours???

It must be easy to refresh the saltwater automaticly after for example 8 hours by mechanical rotation and refresh from a tube with stored saltwater or newly mixed water with salt

I dont mind to fill tubes or buckets with water + salt every few weeks for burning some lamps and/or running some fans .........

Edited May 30, 2016 by George Harmony

[George Harmony]

Example of diy bagdag battery

[Muhendis]

George. You might like to build your own battery by following these instructions....http://www.instructables.com/id/Building-a-quotBaghdad-Batteryquot/

[George Harmony]

George. You might like to build your own battery by following these instructions....http://www.instructables.com/id/Building-a-quotBaghdad-Batteryquot/

Wow...a very informative and usefull link. Thank you very much.

[George Harmony]

@muhendis,

Aluminium air batteries are easy to make. Ive seen some diy home made batteries. This is an easy setup and gives enough voltage for a (led) lamp if you make a few in series.

Example: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q_yIhiKboE

According to someone who reacted it will last 8 hours. I will try it this week.

[George Harmony]

I think im getting "high" and wondering if im hallucinating after i found this:

The MetalCell could be extremely useful for home use in areas where a sudden cut of power is likely. The battery can be stored away safely for years, as the internal workings will not degrade with age. Due to its compact size, a number of batteries can be stored away in even small storage cupboards. As soon as you add saltwater or urine to the battery, its ready for use. In theory, the battery can run a laptop for around 4 hours. The battery will require refills of saltwater or urine to keep charge going, though eventually the magnesium plates would also require replacement.

Run a laptop for 4 hours = perhaps approx at least 200wh. More than my current need of wh for my lighting. If i can order this i certainly will

https://reducereuserelate.wordpress.com/tag/technology/

Just put saltwater in or PISS in it

Edited May 31, 2016 by George Harmony

[George Harmony]

AND, the technology from a close circuit of saltwater and normal water to generate electricity is re-invented by a Dutch company which already made a prototype for residential use. Next year they will market a product for solar (panel charging) with capacity of 10 Kwh.

A bigger working prototype was installed with a ceremony where the King of The Netherlands was present. at the Afsluitdijk.

in Dutch: http://www.rtlz.nl/tech/het-kan-echt-batterij-met-alleen-maar-water-en-zout

Im getting more "high" of saltwater drugs ...........

[George Harmony]

This is more "cool" cause you need only water

If you remember some of your science lessons, photosynthesis is the process to which sunlight is used to transform water and CO2 into oxygen and organic compounds. The bacteria in the pot breaks up the compounds releasing electrons that travel along nanowires. The resulting electricity powers a USB port where you can plug in your tablet or smartphone.

To start using the Bioo Lite Recharging Station you will have to remove the USB inside the pot, add some water inside and shake it properly so that it flows properly. Put your preferred plant inside and fill with soil and make sure the USB is visible. Plug in your device and watch it power up.

The pot comes with all the necessary hardware, including the USB plug.

The Barcelona-based company also claims that the technology allows for three charges per day and that the plant generates the power all through the day so users can use it any time of day or night. How long it takes to charge a smartphone or tablet all depends on your devices battery capacity. You also need to keep in mind that not all plants produce the same amount of electricity, so you may want to do some research before selecting your plant of choice. It is also important that you keep your plant healthy and alive for this to work.

http://smallbiztrends.com/2016/05/bioo-lite-recharging-station.html

[George Harmony]

Can anyone explain me why they dont invent a battery which you only have to refresh with saltwater but then with a much bigger capacity, for example 12 volt 50ah.

If you live near the sea its then completely free.

i always thought hallucinogen drugs are illegal in Indonesia. little did i know

I think you must research first before making such remarks. Little did you know indeed.

Ladies & gentlemen, ive got it:

Fuji Pigment Co. Ltd., has developed a new type of aluminium-air battery which is rechargeable by refilling salty or normal water. The battery has a modified structure which ensures longer battery lifetime.

Dr. Ryohei Mori at Fuji Pigment Co. Ltd. has invented the new type of aluminium-air battery which uses a modified the aluminium-air battery structure by placing ceramic and carbonaceous materials between aqueous electrolyte and electrodes as an internal layer. Owing to the battery's modified structure, anode corrosion and byproduct accumulation were suppressed, which has resulted in longer battery lifetime.

The 0.7-0.8 V aluminum-air battery, which provides 400-800 mA/cell, claims to have a theoretical specific energy level of 8,100 Wh/kg and has the second largest capacity among various types of potential secondary batteries. Theoretical specific energy of a commercialized lithium-ion battery is 120-200 Wh/kg which means that the aluminium-air battery possesses theoretical capacity more than 40 times as large as that of a lithium-ion battery.

http://www.electronics-eetimes.com/news/long-life-aluminium-air-battery-resolves-rechargeable-challenges

Theoretically, the aluminium-air battery has the second largest capacity compared with a lithium-air battery which is the strongest secondary battery. For example a lithium-ion battery has a specific energy level of 120-200 Wh/kg which compares with aluminium-air battery which has 8,100Wh/kg and lithium-air battery which has 11,400 Wh/kg).

The battery is capable of working for minimum 14 days by refilling with salty water or normal water occasionally.

:)

Edited May 31, 2016 by George Harmony

[Muhendis]

"Ladies & gentlemen, ive got it:"

Oh my God! I hope it's not something we can catch on this forum.

You're doing well George. Keep up the good work

[George Harmony]

For above dutch invention of saltwater and (sweet)water i have quoted wrong. You dont need solar panels. It generates electricity from (salt)water. And if i understand well for the fuji invention i can also throw away my solar panels if its indeed working as they claim.

[George Harmony]

Coming back on the topic of ramp pump and generating electricity or pumping water for my roof. Here is someone who uses a ramp pump for a water wheel but he runs his boat-toy with it just for fun.

Since my pond have no head perhaps its possible to run a waterwheel with a "PULSER" pump.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CG0laNqJWY0

[George Harmony]

Pasted above a wrong youtube link. Sorry. Here it is:

Edited May 31, 2016 by George Harmony

[Crossy]

Ponds have no flow, so no kinetic energy, your pond has no head, so no potential energy.

A RAM pump (or waterwheel, pelton or any other similar device) needs a source of energy be it head or flow.

You have neither!

Which part of "you cannot get more out than you put in" is unclear?

[George Harmony]

I wait till i get one of those saltwater fuell battery. If i can get one or two to run my house and extra tiny pumps of mine i wont try to make a pulser pump.

It was just an idea like attached pict.

[Crossy]

The pulser uses water flow, note the exhaust water outlet (just off the right of the screen) is lower than the lake.

[George Harmony]

Yes i know. I saw some examples with buckets as testing. In my case if i really want to make it i can make one pond a little bit higher. In fact i have already one higher but with overflow pipes so its all at the same level. Easy to close these pipes.

About these small saltwater lamps i think also important is the "joule thief". With low voltages its hard to burn a bright led. Here is one example of someone who made a diy joule thief

Seen also examples with a fluorescent lightbulb connected to two aa batteries......wow .. Amazing ?

[Crossy]

The Joule-thief works

Takes low voltage supply (AA cell, salt water battery) and converts to higher voltage to run an LED.

But it still does not output more energy than is put in.

Power Out (V x A) is ALWAYS less than Power In (V x A).

[Crossy]

George.

Have you thought of using human energy?

For example, haul 10kg to a height of 10m (quickly) then use it falling back down (slowly) to generate electricity?

10kg @ 10m will run a 200mW LED for 75 minutes (two high-brightness white LEDs).

Then you pull the weight to the top again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trevor_Baylis

Or this http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-tech/sustainable/gravity-powered-lamp1.htm

[George Harmony]

Yeah good idea. I have seen examples of such a setup but for a well pump.

Id rather wait till i can buy one of these above "saltwater" batteries and am feeling lucky and happy that im still on my 7ah batteries. ???

Here is a very interesting website with ooooh so many info. Really amazing site and all about energy.

http://www.energy-without-carbon.org/Lighting

Edited June 1, 2016 by George Harmony

[George Harmony]

And, besides of using capacitors to make rice or baking bradwurst you can use these also for (super)lighting in combination with "super joule ringer"

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M3YWB-noPNo

[Crossy]

And, besides of using capacitors to make rice or baking bradwurst you can use these also for (super)lighting in combination with "super joule ringer"

Ah, another Joule-thief (blocking oscillator) design. This one a really poor design not least because the entire load current is passing through the base-emitter junction of that poor 2N3055 (I never thought I'd feel sorry for a bipolar transistor). It only survives because it's an incredibly robust device (I_b max = 7A)

http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/2N3055-D.PDF

As noted earlier, Joule-thieves do work, but they cannot output more than they take in.

[Muhendis]

Ponds have no flow, so no kinetic energy, your pond has no head, so no potential energy.

A RAM pump (or waterwheel, pelton or any other similar device) needs a source of energy be it head or flow.

You have neither!

Which part of "you cannot get more out than you put in" is unclear?

Crossy. Try pouring a few buckets full of salt into the pond. If George then puts an anode and cathode into the mix he has plenty of "potential" energy. Of course the fish would need to be salt water fish so after some time he would also be able to enjoy some mackerel for his dinner......

[Muhendis]

And, besides of using capacitors to make rice or baking bradwurst you can use these also for (super)lighting in combination with "super joule ringer"

Ah, another Joule-thief (blocking oscillator) design. This one a really poor design not least because the entire load current is passing through the base-emitter junction of that poor 2N3055 (I never thought I'd feel sorry for a bipolar transistor). It only survives because it's an incredibly robust device (I_b max = 7A)

http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/2N3055-D.PDF

As noted earlier, Joule-thieves do work, but they cannot output more than they take in.

I moved on as soon as I read the words "free energy" not noticing the circuit at all. Looking at your comments now I couldn't agree more. It's a really crap design.