London's Boris Johnson backs Britain leaving 28-nation EU

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

If UK leaves the EU within months Scotland will leave the union. England (maybe Wales) will then have to renegotiate 40 years of laws and treaties to maintain any semblance of trade with europe. People with property in Europe will have to renegotiate both the ownership and their rights of residence. Those with jobs in Europe will have to get new visas.....those who rely on Europe for food and wine will have to wait for taxes and duties to be re-allotted, those with foreign cars will find they all have import duties. the NHS will be completely dismantled all labour laws will be re-written to the advantage of employers and the UK diet will consist of boiled mutton and turnips.

Sorry, the £400Bn is the Scots share of the UK deficit, after oil money is deducted.

.

I would actually expect it to be around 123bn (based on 1.53 trillion divided by population).

You did the maths, I was quoting what was said a couple of weeks ago on BBC's This Week programme with Andrew Neil (A Scot himself), so it could be a misquote, I know it was a hell of a lot of money.

The ability to raise taxes in Scotland is in the hands of the Scottish parliament. Austerity in Scotland my friend is not just something that is the fault of Westminster. Ask the poisoned dwarf Sturgeon.

[RuamRudy]

If UK leaves the EU within months Scotland will leave the union. England (maybe Wales) will then have to renegotiate 40 years of laws and treaties to maintain any semblance of trade with europe. People with property in Europe will have to renegotiate both the ownership and their rights of residence. Those with jobs in Europe will have to get new visas.....those who rely on Europe for food and wine will have to wait for taxes and duties to be re-allotted, those with foreign cars will find they all have import duties. the NHS will be completely dismantled all labour laws will be re-written to the advantage of employers and the UK diet will consist of boiled mutton and turnips.

Sorry, the £400Bn is the Scots share of the UK deficit, after oil money is deducted.

.

I would actually expect it to be around 123bn (based on 1.53 trillion divided by population).

You did the maths, I was quoting what was said a couple of weeks ago on BBC's This Week programme with Andrew Neil (A Scot himself), so it could be a misquote, I know it was a hell of a lot of money.

The ability to raise taxes in Scotland is in the hands of the Scottish parliament. Austerity in Scotland my friend is not just something that is the fault of Westminster. Ask the poisoned dwarf Sturgeon.

I think when it comes to discussing matters of economic policy, facts are better than vague recollections.

Austerity is a George Osborne creation (devised during a rare moment when he wasn't coked out of his tree), a concept repeatedly rubbished by far brighter people than he could ever hope to be.

It's sole aim is to punish the poor for the excesses of the rich, while shoveling truckloads of taxpayers' money into the pockets of his friends and donors.

[Celer et Audax]

emilymat, on 22 Feb 2016 - 13:26, said:

SgtRock, on 22 Feb 2016 - 10:53, said:

cumgranosalum, on 22 Feb 2016 - 09:07, said:cumgranosalum, on 22 Feb 2016 - 09:07, said:

If UK leaves the EU within months Scotland will leave the union. England (maybe Wales) will then have to renegotiate 40 years of laws and treaties to maintain any semblance of trade with europe. People with property in Europe will have to renegotiate both the ownership and their rights of residence. Those with jobs in Europe will have to get new visas.....those who rely on Europe for food and wine will have to wait for taxes and duties to be re-allotted, those with foreign cars will find they all have import duties. the NHS will be completely dismantled all labour laws will be re-written to the advantage of employers and the UK diet will consist of boiled mutton and turnips.

Sturgeon made this claim yesterday.

You might want to check out the comments sections in the Scottish press. She has made a grave error in judgement.

The vast majority of commentators disagree with her claims that Scotland should be a part of the EU in the event of a Brexit.

I watched her interview on the Andrew Marr programme yesterday. She said she believes a Brexit by the UK as a whole, with Scotland voting to stay, would trigger a referendum. There's nothing new here as this is a mantra the SNP have been running since they lost the referendum. It raises some interesting issues though.

If you're Scottish and believe in independence then do you vote to exit the EU to 'trigger' the referendum ?

But.....If too many Scots did that then Scotland would vote to leave the EU, and the UK might vote to stay!.

How hard does Nicola S campaign for a 'remain' vote, given she says she is passionate about not leaving?.

Essentially, as with Boris, this forthcoming referendum is not about what's best for Britain, but what is best for internal political futures.

One thing I can agree with Nigel F about, is that we wouldn't be having this referendum if it were not for the percieved threat of UKIP in the couple of years run up to last years general election

Agreed.

The SNP want Independence from the rest of the UK. That has always been the case and it will not change. I cannot understand the SNP logic in being Independent from the rest of the UK but remain in the EU. Being a member of the EU in no way means being Independent, it means the exact opposite.

The comments sections in the Scottish Press clearly show that people do not agree with her assertion that the Public in Scotland wish to remain in the EU. It is not just one newspaper, it is all of the ones I read the article on.

Roughly 55% against 45% voted to remain in the UK. I believe that this figure would have been reversed if the SNP were also advocating being free of the EU.

For sure, it is always politics first and the public far behind. That is never going to change until the whole political system is scrapped and thought out again. Farage and UKIP certainly had their part to play in bringing about this referendum. I really think the real reason it was offered was because Cameron never thought for one second that he would have won the GE outright. He probably thought the best he would have got would have been another coalition and that was his get out of jail free card for calling it off.

It is being reported in some of the press that his much vaunted benefits deal is going to be taken to the EU Courts, as it is possibly illegal.

You should also have a read at some of the analysis and observations in the EU Press over this '' Deal ''

I posted some of them in this thread.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/896734-camerons-eu-reform-deal-gets-mixed-reactions-from-britons/

Wanting to leave the UK but remain in Europe is entirely consistent.

Many Scots can not abide Westminster attitudes and the social injustice this inculcates.

I might just buy a place in Edinburgh if an independent Scotland is part of the EU and the Little Englanders are out

There you go the phrase "Little Englanders" sums you up perfectly I take it therefore you are a "Little Scotlander" then?

Just remember you not the only one to love your country

[JAG]

cumgranosalum, on 22 Feb 2016 - 09:07, said:

If UK leaves the EU within months Scotland will leave the union. England (maybe Wales) will then have to renegotiate 40 years of laws and treaties to maintain any semblance of trade with europe. People with property in Europe will have to renegotiate both the ownership and their rights of residence. Those with jobs in Europe will have to get new visas.....those who rely on Europe for food and wine will have to wait for taxes and duties to be re-allotted, those with foreign cars will find they all have import duties. the NHS will be completely dismantled all labour laws will be re-written to the advantage of employers and the UK diet will consist of boiled mutton and turnips.

Sure it will.

Just like the sky will fall in and the sun will never rise again.

How one person can write such unsubstantiated crap is unbelievable.

Sounds like an episode from "Blackadder".

[JAG]

Noticed that the security bogeyman has now been rolled out. UK military leaders state that leaving the EU will create a security problem, blah, blah, blah.

That didn't take long to get the fear campaign up and rolling.

There can be doubt that UK's security will be better within the EU. Why would military leaders lie?

What was the old saying?

Oh yes: "The difference between most European Armies and a slice of toast, is that you can make soldiers out of a slice of toast!"

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

emilymat, on 22 Feb 2016 - 13:26, said:

SgtRock, on 22 Feb 2016 - 10:53, said:

cumgranosalum, on 22 Feb 2016 - 09:07, said:cumgranosalum, on 22 Feb 2016 - 09:07, said:

If UK leaves the EU within months Scotland will leave the union. England (maybe Wales) will then have to renegotiate 40 years of laws and treaties to maintain any semblance of trade with europe. People with property in Europe will have to renegotiate both the ownership and their rights of residence. Those with jobs in Europe will have to get new visas.....those who rely on Europe for food and wine will have to wait for taxes and duties to be re-allotted, those with foreign cars will find they all have import duties. the NHS will be completely dismantled all labour laws will be re-written to the advantage of employers and the UK diet will consist of boiled mutton and turnips.

Sturgeon made this claim yesterday.

You might want to check out the comments sections in the Scottish press. She has made a grave error in judgement.

The vast majority of commentators disagree with her claims that Scotland should be a part of the EU in the event of a Brexit.

I watched her interview on the Andrew Marr programme yesterday. She said she believes a Brexit by the UK as a whole, with Scotland voting to stay, would trigger a referendum. There's nothing new here as this is a mantra the SNP have been running since they lost the referendum. It raises some interesting issues though.

If you're Scottish and believe in independence then do you vote to exit the EU to 'trigger' the referendum ?

But.....If too many Scots did that then Scotland would vote to leave the EU, and the UK might vote to stay!.

How hard does Nicola S campaign for a 'remain' vote, given she says she is passionate about not leaving?.

Essentially, as with Boris, this forthcoming referendum is not about what's best for Britain, but what is best for internal political futures.

One thing I can agree with Nigel F about, is that we wouldn't be having this referendum if it were not for the percieved threat of UKIP in the couple of years run up to last years general election

Agreed.

The SNP want Independence from the rest of the UK. That has always been the case and it will not change. I cannot understand the SNP logic in being Independent from the rest of the UK but remain in the EU. Being a member of the EU in no way means being Independent, it means the exact opposite.

The comments sections in the Scottish Press clearly show that people do not agree with her assertion that the Public in Scotland wish to remain in the EU. It is not just one newspaper, it is all of the ones I read the article on.

Roughly 55% against 45% voted to remain in the UK. I believe that this figure would have been reversed if the SNP were also advocating being free of the EU.

For sure, it is always politics first and the public far behind. That is never going to change until the whole political system is scrapped and thought out again. Farage and UKIP certainly had their part to play in bringing about this referendum. I really think the real reason it was offered was because Cameron never thought for one second that he would have won the GE outright. He probably thought the best he would have got would have been another coalition and that was his get out of jail free card for calling it off.

It is being reported in some of the press that his much vaunted benefits deal is going to be taken to the EU Courts, as it is possibly illegal.

You should also have a read at some of the analysis and observations in the EU Press over this '' Deal ''

I posted some of them in this thread.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/896734-camerons-eu-reform-deal-gets-mixed-reactions-from-britons/

Wanting to leave the UK but remain in Europe is entirely consistent.

Many Scots can not abide Westminster attitudes and the social injustice this inculcates.

I might just buy a place in Edinburgh if an independent Scotland is part of the EU and the Little Englanders are out

There you go the phrase "Little Englanders" sums you up perfectly I take it therefore you are a "Little Scotlander" then?

Just remember you not the only one to love your country

I hope the Scots press are correct, and Sturgeon is wrong as you say, but I don't believe this long awaited referendum is about political futures, more about the future of Britain.

[RuamRudy]

emilymat, on 22 Feb 2016 - 13:26, said:

SgtRock, on 22 Feb 2016 - 10:53, said:

cumgranosalum, on 22 Feb 2016 - 09:07, said:cumgranosalum, on 22 Feb 2016 - 09:07, said:

If UK leaves the EU within months Scotland will leave the union. England (maybe Wales) will then have to renegotiate 40 years of laws and treaties to maintain any semblance of trade with europe. People with property in Europe will have to renegotiate both the ownership and their rights of residence. Those with jobs in Europe will have to get new visas.....those who rely on Europe for food and wine will have to wait for taxes and duties to be re-allotted, those with foreign cars will find they all have import duties. the NHS will be completely dismantled all labour laws will be re-written to the advantage of employers and the UK diet will consist of boiled mutton and turnips.

Sturgeon made this claim yesterday.

You might want to check out the comments sections in the Scottish press. She has made a grave error in judgement.

The vast majority of commentators disagree with her claims that Scotland should be a part of the EU in the event of a Brexit.

I watched her interview on the Andrew Marr programme yesterday. She said she believes a Brexit by the UK as a whole, with Scotland voting to stay, would trigger a referendum. There's nothing new here as this is a mantra the SNP have been running since they lost the referendum. It raises some interesting issues though.

If you're Scottish and believe in independence then do you vote to exit the EU to 'trigger' the referendum ?

But.....If too many Scots did that then Scotland would vote to leave the EU, and the UK might vote to stay!.

How hard does Nicola S campaign for a 'remain' vote, given she says she is passionate about not leaving?.

Essentially, as with Boris, this forthcoming referendum is not about what's best for Britain, but what is best for internal political futures.

One thing I can agree with Nigel F about, is that we wouldn't be having this referendum if it were not for the percieved threat of UKIP in the couple of years run up to last years general election

Agreed.

The SNP want Independence from the rest of the UK. That has always been the case and it will not change. I cannot understand the SNP logic in being Independent from the rest of the UK but remain in the EU. Being a member of the EU in no way means being Independent, it means the exact opposite.

The comments sections in the Scottish Press clearly show that people do not agree with her assertion that the Public in Scotland wish to remain in the EU. It is not just one newspaper, it is all of the ones I read the article on.

Roughly 55% against 45% voted to remain in the UK. I believe that this figure would have been reversed if the SNP were also advocating being free of the EU.

For sure, it is always politics first and the public far behind. That is never going to change until the whole political system is scrapped and thought out again. Farage and UKIP certainly had their part to play in bringing about this referendum. I really think the real reason it was offered was because Cameron never thought for one second that he would have won the GE outright. He probably thought the best he would have got would have been another coalition and that was his get out of jail free card for calling it off.

It is being reported in some of the press that his much vaunted benefits deal is going to be taken to the EU Courts, as it is possibly illegal.

You should also have a read at some of the analysis and observations in the EU Press over this '' Deal ''

I posted some of them in this thread.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/896734-camerons-eu-reform-deal-gets-mixed-reactions-from-britons/

Wanting to leave the UK but remain in Europe is entirely consistent.

Many Scots can not abide Westminster attitudes and the social injustice this inculcates.

I might just buy a place in Edinburgh if an independent Scotland is part of the EU and the Little Englanders are out

There you go the phrase "Little Englanders" sums you up perfectly I take it therefore you are a "Little Scotlander" then?

Just remember you not the only one to love your country

I hope the Scots press are correct, and Sturgeon is wrong as you say, but I don't believe this long awaited referendum is about political futures, more about the future of Britain.

I am not sure which are the good Sarge's preferred Scottish press but I am delighted to report that it is he who appears to have made an error of judgment. Survation reports that Scotland is 77% in favour of remaining in the EU.

https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/701346171961348100?s=03

Edited February 23, 2016 by RuamRudy

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

emilymat, on 22 Feb 2016 - 13:26, said:

SgtRock, on 22 Feb 2016 - 10:53, said:

cumgranosalum, on 22 Feb 2016 - 09:07, said:cumgranosalum, on 22 Feb 2016 - 09:07, said:

If UK leaves the EU within months Scotland will leave the union. England (maybe Wales) will then have to renegotiate 40 years of laws and treaties to maintain any semblance of trade with europe. People with property in Europe will have to renegotiate both the ownership and their rights of residence. Those with jobs in Europe will have to get new visas.....those who rely on Europe for food and wine will have to wait for taxes and duties to be re-allotted, those with foreign cars will find they all have import duties. the NHS will be completely dismantled all labour laws will be re-written to the advantage of employers and the UK diet will consist of boiled mutton and turnips.

Sturgeon made this claim yesterday.

You might want to check out the comments sections in the Scottish press. She has made a grave error in judgement.

The vast majority of commentators disagree with her claims that Scotland should be a part of the EU in the event of a Brexit.

I watched her interview on the Andrew Marr programme yesterday. She said she believes a Brexit by the UK as a whole, with Scotland voting to stay, would trigger a referendum. There's nothing new here as this is a mantra the SNP have been running since they lost the referendum. It raises some interesting issues though.

If you're Scottish and believe in independence then do you vote to exit the EU to 'trigger' the referendum ?

But.....If too many Scots did that then Scotland would vote to leave the EU, and the UK might vote to stay!.

How hard does Nicola S campaign for a 'remain' vote, given she says she is passionate about not leaving?.

Essentially, as with Boris, this forthcoming referendum is not about what's best for Britain, but what is best for internal political futures.

One thing I can agree with Nigel F about, is that we wouldn't be having this referendum if it were not for the percieved threat of UKIP in the couple of years run up to last years general election

Agreed.

The SNP want Independence from the rest of the UK. That has always been the case and it will not change. I cannot understand the SNP logic in being Independent from the rest of the UK but remain in the EU. Being a member of the EU in no way means being Independent, it means the exact opposite.

The comments sections in the Scottish Press clearly show that people do not agree with her assertion that the Public in Scotland wish to remain in the EU. It is not just one newspaper, it is all of the ones I read the article on.

Roughly 55% against 45% voted to remain in the UK. I believe that this figure would have been reversed if the SNP were also advocating being free of the EU.

For sure, it is always politics first and the public far behind. That is never going to change until the whole political system is scrapped and thought out again. Farage and UKIP certainly had their part to play in bringing about this referendum. I really think the real reason it was offered was because Cameron never thought for one second that he would have won the GE outright. He probably thought the best he would have got would have been another coalition and that was his get out of jail free card for calling it off.

It is being reported in some of the press that his much vaunted benefits deal is going to be taken to the EU Courts, as it is possibly illegal.

You should also have a read at some of the analysis and observations in the EU Press over this '' Deal ''

I posted some of them in this thread.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/896734-camerons-eu-reform-deal-gets-mixed-reactions-from-britons/

Wanting to leave the UK but remain in Europe is entirely consistent.

Many Scots can not abide Westminster attitudes and the social injustice this inculcates.

I might just buy a place in Edinburgh if an independent Scotland is part of the EU and the Little Englanders are out

There you go the phrase "Little Englanders" sums you up perfectly I take it therefore you are a "Little Scotlander" then?

Just remember you not the only one to love your country

I hope the Scots press are correct, and Sturgeon is wrong as you say, but I don't believe this long awaited referendum is about political futures, more about the future of Britain.

I am not sure which are the good Sarge's preferred Scottish press but I am delighted to report that it is he who appears to have made an error of judgment. Survation reports that Scotland is 77% in favour of remaining in the EU.

https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/701346171961348100?s=03

Oh well, I go back to what I said in the 1st place.

They can go and pay back their part of the UK deficit and apply to join the EU.

Walls are being built all over Europe at the moment.

England already has an old wall we can improve, or build a new one and bail out the NHS with the money they owe.

Sturgeon's fiefdom?

[Mojomor]

The way Boris walked his bike out of no 10 was classic, and the media loved it. He could have left it against the railings and asked the bobby, to mind it for him.

But no! Our Boris has to, absolutely has to, wheel it into No 10. Then, when he comes out, the media circus goes bananas.

What a plonker, but the simple folk like the buffoon. Ref Trump

[brewsterbudgen]

The way Boris walked his bike out of no 10 was classic, and the media loved it. He could have left it against the railings and asked the bobby, to mind it for him.

But no! Our Boris has to, absolutely has to, wheel it into No 10. Then, when he comes out, the media circus goes bananas.

What a plonker, but the simple folk like the buffoon. Ref Trump

Thanks for getting this thread back on topic! Boris' naked ambition is obvious but I think he's miscalculated and may have blown his leadership chances.

[NongKhaiKid]

Yesterday Sky News ran headlines on several polls they conducted and said 3 out of 10 interviewed said they would vote to leave the EU based on Boris' decision to go with the Out camp.

As it was only a headline on the news crawler there was no information on where the poll was conducted and how many people were interviewed.

[RuamRudy]

The way Boris walked his bike out of no 10 was classic, and the media loved it. He could have left it against the railings and asked the bobby, to mind it for him.

But no! Our Boris has to, absolutely has to, wheel it into No 10. Then, when he comes out, the media circus goes bananas.

What a plonker, but the simple folk like the buffoon. Ref Trump

Thanks for getting this thread back on topic! Boris' naked ambition is obvious but I think he's miscalculated and may have blown his leadership chances.

I am not so sure. Take a look at his Wikipedia page and marvel that such a racist bigot, a man who has cheated and lied all his life, someone who agreed to help arrange for journalists to be beaten up, cheated on his wife multiple times and fathered illegitimate children about whom he had initially lied, is still held in affection by the nation.

He isn't some lovable buffoon, but a very dangerous, narcissistic manipulator.

[RuamRudy]

emilymat, on 22 Feb 2016 - 13:26, said:

SgtRock, on 22 Feb 2016 - 10:53, said:

cumgranosalum, on 22 Feb 2016 - 09:07, said:cumgranosalum, on 22 Feb 2016 - 09:07, said:

If UK leaves the EU within months Scotland will leave the union. England (maybe Wales) will then have to renegotiate 40 years of laws and treaties to maintain any semblance of trade with europe. People with property in Europe will have to renegotiate both the ownership and their rights of residence. Those with jobs in Europe will have to get new visas.....those who rely on Europe for food and wine will have to wait for taxes and duties to be re-allotted, those with foreign cars will find they all have import duties. the NHS will be completely dismantled all labour laws will be re-written to the advantage of employers and the UK diet will consist of boiled mutton and turnips.

Sturgeon made this claim yesterday.

You might want to check out the comments sections in the Scottish press. She has made a grave error in judgement.

The vast majority of commentators disagree with her claims that Scotland should be a part of the EU in the event of a Brexit.

I watched her interview on the Andrew Marr programme yesterday. She said she believes a Brexit by the UK as a whole, with Scotland voting to stay, would trigger a referendum. There's nothing new here as this is a mantra the SNP have been running since they lost the referendum. It raises some interesting issues though.

If you're Scottish and believe in independence then do you vote to exit the EU to 'trigger' the referendum ?
But.....If too many Scots did that then Scotland would vote to leave the EU, and the UK might vote to stay!.
How hard does Nicola S campaign for a 'remain' vote, given she says she is passionate about not leaving?.

Essentially, as with Boris, this forthcoming referendum is not about what's best for Britain, but what is best for internal political futures.

One thing I can agree with Nigel F about, is that we wouldn't be having this referendum if it were not for the percieved threat of UKIP in the couple of years run up to last years general election

Agreed.

The SNP want Independence from the rest of the UK. That has always been the case and it will not change. I cannot understand the SNP logic in being Independent from the rest of the UK but remain in the EU. Being a member of the EU in no way means being Independent, it means the exact opposite.

The comments sections in the Scottish Press clearly show that people do not agree with her assertion that the Public in Scotland wish to remain in the EU. It is not just one newspaper, it is all of the ones I read the article on.

Roughly 55% against 45% voted to remain in the UK. I believe that this figure would have been reversed if the SNP were also advocating being free of the EU.

For sure, it is always politics first and the public far behind. That is never going to change until the whole political system is scrapped and thought out again. Farage and UKIP certainly had their part to play in bringing about this referendum. I really think the real reason it was offered was because Cameron never thought for one second that he would have won the GE outright. He probably thought the best he would have got would have been another coalition and that was his get out of jail free card for calling it off.

It is being reported in some of the press that his much vaunted benefits deal is going to be taken to the EU Courts, as it is possibly illegal.

You should also have a read at some of the analysis and observations in the EU Press over this '' Deal ''

I posted some of them in this thread.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/896734-camerons-eu-reform-deal-gets-mixed-reactions-from-britons/

Wanting to leave the UK but remain in Europe is entirely consistent.

Many Scots can not abide Westminster attitudes and the social injustice this inculcates.

I might just buy a place in Edinburgh if an independent Scotland is part of the EU and the Little Englanders are out

There you go the phrase "Little Englanders" sums you up perfectly I take it therefore you are a "Little Scotlander" then?
Just remember you not the only one to love your country

I hope the Scots press are correct, and Sturgeon is wrong as you say, but I don't believe this long awaited referendum is about political futures, more about the future of Britain.

I am not sure which are the good Sarge's preferred Scottish press but I am delighted to report that it is he who appears to have made an error of judgment. Survation reports that Scotland is 77% in favour of remaining in the EU.

https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/701346171961348100?s=03

Oh well, I go back to what I said in the 1st place.
They can go and pay back their part of the UK deficit and apply to join the EU.
Walls are being built all over Europe at the moment.
England already has an old wall we can improve, or build a new one and bail out the NHS with the money they owe.
Sturgeon's fiefdom?

I think I can understand the constant attacks on Sturgeon - the temerity of a chippy Jock, a woman at that, to dare to suggest that the UK isn't the best country in the world, and that we think we are better off out of it, is clearly beyond the pale for some of our southern neighbours. However surely you must realise that attacks without substance are the stuff of playgrounds.

As for what we owe (I think we can agree that your £400 billion is somewhat inaccurate?), that will be part of our separation negotiations. As for funding the NHS with it, if you keep electing the tories into power, there will be no NHS in which to invest it, however their friends and donors in Blue Cross will gratefully the money - their accountants are probably already booking it for 2018.

[Galactus]

EU is in the brink of a collapse. Look how this migrant crisis is handled and EU countries started to close their borders and constant disagreements even for small issues.

right move from UK if they leave EU. I am sure they do better without the shackles of EU.

Rats started to abandon the sinking ship!

Edited February 24, 2016 by Galactus

[lungmi]

England copies Singapour, with a Brexit an economic developpement in this way is not excluded.

[SgtRock]

RuamRudy, on 22 Feb 2016 - 15:37, said:

SgtRock, on 22 Feb 2016 - 15:15, said:

I would suggest that you familiarise yourself with these:

http://ec.europa.eu/enlargement/policy/conditions-membership/chapters-of-the-acquis/index_en.htm

Then come back and tell me that it is supposition on my part.

When you have done that, then in your own words, you could try explaining why you think being an EU member can possibly be considered as being Independent.

I was referring to your assertion that Scotland would be blocked by Spain from applying for membership - that is assuming it is ever considered to have left the EU. That was another question that was never resolved.

However it may become clearer soon - recent polls (this week) have Scots between 66% and 77% in favour of staying in the EU. Sorry, on my mobile so I cannot link to them, but Google will show you the way.

As for your final point, I thought that would be obvious, but I will try to clarify.

The UK is in the driving seat when it comes to EU membership. It can decide to leave should it choose to do so. Scotland, despite looking overwhelmingly pro-EU, will quite possibly be dragged out against its will.

Scotland, however, does not hold the same amount of power within the UK. We are afforded powers from Westminster which can be arbitrarily withdrawn at any time.

Our position within the UK is weaker than the UK's position within the EU.

You might want to have a little read of this. I already said that if the Referendum was for an Independent Scotland outside the EU, it would already be on the road to Independence, just dotting the I's and crossing the T's.

Quote

Euroscepticism in Scotland is at a record high, according to research that challenges claims that the country is significantly more pro-European than the rest of the UK.

The authoritative study for NatCen Social Research uncovers widespread Euroscepticism throughout the UK, but with a majority unlikely to vote to leave the EU unless they are persuaded of the economic case for Brexit.

In an apparent contradiction of SNP claims that the forthcoming referendum could take Scotland out of the EU against its will, the study also found that 60% of Scots can be classed as Eurosceptic, with only one-fifth happy to “leave things as they are”.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/24/euroscepticism-scotland-record-high

[RuamRudy]

RuamRudy, on 22 Feb 2016 - 15:37, said:

SgtRock, on 22 Feb 2016 - 15:15, said:

I would suggest that you familiarise yourself with these:

http://ec.europa.eu/enlargement/policy/conditions-membership/chapters-of-the-acquis/index_en.htm

Then come back and tell me that it is supposition on my part.

When you have done that, then in your own words, you could try explaining why you think being an EU member can possibly be considered as being Independent.

I was referring to your assertion that Scotland would be blocked by Spain from applying for membership - that is assuming it is ever considered to have left the EU. That was another question that was never resolved.

However it may become clearer soon - recent polls (this week) have Scots between 66% and 77% in favour of staying in the EU. Sorry, on my mobile so I cannot link to them, but Google will show you the way.

As for your final point, I thought that would be obvious, but I will try to clarify.

The UK is in the driving seat when it comes to EU membership. It can decide to leave should it choose to do so. Scotland, despite looking overwhelmingly pro-EU, will quite possibly be dragged out against its will.

Scotland, however, does not hold the same amount of power within the UK. We are afforded powers from Westminster which can be arbitrarily withdrawn at any time.

Our position within the UK is weaker than the UK's position within the EU.

You might want to have a little read of this. I already said that if the Referendum was for an Independent Scotland outside the EU, it would already be on the road to Independence, just dotting the I's and crossing the T's.

Quote

Euroscepticism in Scotland is at a record high, according to research that challenges claims that the country is significantly more pro-European than the rest of the UK.

The authoritative study for NatCen Social Research uncovers widespread Euroscepticism throughout the UK, but with a majority unlikely to vote to leave the EU unless they are persuaded of the economic case for Brexit.

In an apparent contradiction of SNP claims that the forthcoming referendum could take Scotland out of the EU against its will, the study also found that 60% of Scots can be classed as Eurosceptic, with only one-fifth happy to “leave things as they are”.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/24/euroscepticism-scotland-record-high

That was somewhat selective quoting there, Sgt. A grand total of 17% of Scots want to leave the EU. The rest are either satisfied with the EU as it stands or want to remain but with structural change.

[SgtRock]

RuamRudy, on 25 Feb 2016 - 09:24, said:

SgtRock, on 25 Feb 2016 - 09:08, said:

You might want to have a little read of this. I already said that if the Referendum was for an Independent Scotland outside the EU, it would already be on the road to Independence, just dotting the I's and crossing the T's.

QuoteQuote

Euroscepticism in Scotland is at a record high, according to research that challenges claims that the country is significantly more pro-European than the rest of the UK.

The authoritative study for NatCen Social Research uncovers widespread Euroscepticism throughout the UK, but with a majority unlikely to vote to leave the EU unless they are persuaded of the economic case for Brexit.

In an apparent contradiction of SNP claims that the forthcoming referendum could take Scotland out of the EU against its will, the study also found that 60% of Scots can be classed as Eurosceptic, with only one-fifth happy to “leave things as they are”.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/24/euroscepticism-scotland-record-high

That was somewhat selective quoting there, Sgt. A grand total of 17% of Scots want to leave the EU. The rest are either satisfied with the EU as it stands or want to remain but with structural change.

Perhaps I never made myself abundantly clear.

In an apparent contradiction of SNP claims that the forthcoming referendum could take Scotland out of the EU against its will

Lying Politicians.

[RuamRudy]

RuamRudy, on 25 Feb 2016 - 09:24, said:

SgtRock, on 25 Feb 2016 - 09:08, said:

You might want to have a little read of this. I already said that if the Referendum was for an Independent Scotland outside the EU, it would already be on the road to Independence, just dotting the I's and crossing the T's.

QuoteQuote

Euroscepticism in Scotland is at a record high, according to research that challenges claims that the country is significantly more pro-European than the rest of the UK.

The authoritative study for NatCen Social Research uncovers widespread Euroscepticism throughout the UK, but with a majority unlikely to vote to leave the EU unless they are persuaded of the economic case for Brexit.

In an apparent contradiction of SNP claims that the forthcoming referendum could take Scotland out of the EU against its will, the study also found that 60% of Scots can be classed as Eurosceptic, with only one-fifth happy to “leave things as they are”.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/24/euroscepticism-scotland-record-high

That was somewhat selective quoting there, Sgt. A grand total of 17% of Scots want to leave the EU. The rest are either satisfied with the EU as it stands or want to remain but with structural change.

Perhaps I never made myself abundantly clear.

In an apparent contradiction of SNP claims that the forthcoming referendum could take Scotland out of the EU against its will

Lying Politicians.

So the will of the 17% should trump the desires of the remainder? I think that both you and the Guardian are grasping at straws here, and work very weak, feeble grasps too.

Lying politicians? More like desperate outers.

[SgtRock]

So the will of the 17% should trump the desires of the remainder? I think that both you and the Guardian are grasping at straws here, and work very weak, feeble grasps too.

Lying politicians? More like desperate outers.

I am neither in the UK or the EU. I do not need to grasp at any straws.

The article merely highlights the lies that are being peddled by the SNP in general and by Sturgeon in particular.

[RuamRudy]

So the will of the 17% should trump the desires of the remainder? I think that both you and the Guardian are grasping at straws here, and work very weak, feeble grasps too.

Lying politicians? More like desperate outers.

I am neither in the UK or the EU. I do not need to grasp at any straws.

The article merely highlights the lies that are being peddled by the SNP in general and by Sturgeon in particular.

But they highlight nothing of the sort. 17% of Scots want to withdraw from Europe. That means 100-17=83% are accepting of Scottish membership of the EU, and are content to stay in, some with conditions, some as is.

In what parallel universe does 83% acceptance not equal a generally pro-European stance?

Your desire to create something out of nothing is a cringe-worthy as the Grauniad article.

[SgtRock]

RuamRudy, on 25 Feb 2016 - 12:54, said:

SgtRock, on 25 Feb 2016 - 12:48, said:

I am neither in the UK or the EU. I do not need to grasp at any straws.

The article merely highlights the lies that are being peddled by the SNP in general and by Sturgeon in particular.

But they highlight nothing of the sort. 17% of Scots want to withdraw from Europe. That means 100-17=83% are accepting of Scottish membership of the EU, and are content to stay in, some with conditions, some as is.

In what parallel universe does 83% acceptance not equal a generally pro-European stance?

Your desire to create something out of nothing is a cringe-worthy as the Grauniad article.

Did you miss the main part of the article.

In an apparent contradiction of SNP claims that the forthcoming referendum could take Scotland out of the EU against its will, the study also found that 60% of Scots can be classed as Eurosceptic, with only one-fifth happy to “leave things as they are”.

60% classed as Eurosceptic and contrary to SNP claims.

That looks pretty damning to me.

[RuamRudy]

RuamRudy, on 25 Feb 2016 - 12:54, said:

SgtRock, on 25 Feb 2016 - 12:48, said:

I am neither in the UK or the EU. I do not need to grasp at any straws.

The article merely highlights the lies that are being peddled by the SNP in general and by Sturgeon in particular.

But they highlight nothing of the sort. 17% of Scots want to withdraw from Europe. That means 100-17=83% are accepting of Scottish membership of the EU, and are content to stay in, some with conditions, some as is.

In what parallel universe does 83% acceptance not equal a generally pro-European stance?

Your desire to create something out of nothing is a cringe-worthy as the Grauniad article.

Did you miss the main part of the article.

In an apparent contradiction of SNP claims that the forthcoming referendum could take Scotland out of the EU against its will, the study also found that 60% of Scots can be classed as Eurosceptic, with only one-fifth happy to “leave things as they are”.

60% classed as Eurosceptic and contrary to SNP claims.

That looks pretty damning to me.

What do you think is meant by eurosceptic in this very poorly written article? Hell, Nicola Sturgeon is a eurosceptic by this definition because while she wants to remain in the EU, she wants to see reform.

In fact, Donald Tusk, Jean-Claude Junker & David Cameron all must be eurosceptic because they want to see reform.

But go on, amuse me further. Look for another way to suggest that the SNP is lying.

[samran]

This is a win-win for Boris, very strategically setting himself as the next Tory leader.

He knows this referendum stands no chance of getting up. I don't even beleive genuinly he supports the 'no' case. But with this support, he has just garnered a huge block of tory party room and member votes from the Eurosceptics.

Should the referendum be anything but a thumping win for the 'stay' crowd, Cameron's leadership will be further white-anted. Boris will be installed one day, and he can then happily say 'the people have spoken - sorry fella's no more of this non-EU stuff. Kick the can down the road far enough so that is is only an issue for the next Tory leader, but not him.

Should for some reason the 'no' vote gets up, Cameron would probably have to resign, and up jumps Boris with the support of the Eurosceptics of the party.

[Ghostnigel]

If UK leaves the EU within months Scotland will leave the union. England (maybe Wales) will then have to renegotiate 40 years of laws and treaties to maintain any semblance of trade with europe. People with property in Europe will have to renegotiate both the ownership and their rights of residence. Those with jobs in Europe will have to get new visas.....those who rely on Europe for food and wine will have to wait for taxes and duties to be re-allotted, those with foreign cars will find they all have import duties. the NHS will be completely dismantled all labour laws will be re-written to the advantage of employers and the UK diet will consist of boiled mutton and turnips.

Don't sit on the fence mate, are you in or out....?

If the eu want to impose tariffs, levies and taxes on New England (minus the Jocks), all we have to do is double the tariffs on european products coming to New England, We can make OUR own rules, because it will be OUR country.

and also, as to the home owners, and workers abroad, since when has the government given a shit about them? A certain pension cap abroad would put them in-line with people who's pensions have been capped outside the EU, its not England's fault they bought abroad to better their lives. Same as if Thailand decided to make it worse for us here, you just have to suck it, and see.

[Ghostnigel]

I like Boris Johnson, prefer him anyday to Cameron. When the truth comes out that he didn't gain us anything from the eu, Boris will look like a good choice.

Now there is this thing about Turkey getting visa free travel accross the EU.....75,000,000 Turks, plus all the Afghanistan interlopers sneaking in with them? Read again, 75,000,000, they thought that all the other lot wouldn't come....hahaha, how wrong were they then?

WE ARE DOOMED!! Doomed, i tell yer.....

[Ghostnigel]

I wrote on facebook about leaving the eu, about staying in, and getting out. My friends son, who's 19, posted back saying "what does it matter to you, you don't live here anymore?"

My reply was this:

Ethan,

Still my country mate, bought and paid for. I am a British citizen, i won't say 'with a British passport', because any <deleted> can get hold of one these days, need i say more? I still pay my taxes there, so i have the same right to say what i think same as you, and anyone else.

You, and your generation, had better start taking an interest in it too. Because the way things are going, you will be speaking arabic in 15 years....and marrying a bird you have never met, or seen, with a burkha on....its getting serious mate, they will start slipping a few sharia laws into english law, and BAM! you are Islam...up too you if u want to accept that, i sure as hell don't.

Your Dad's knees are not good enough to kneel down and praying to Allah...hahaha.

Seriously though, you young'uns better start looking at what the future holds for you....that's the only advice i can give mate....

There is no hope if things don't change, sorry to say....

Edited March 3, 2016 by Ghostnigel

[Pdaz]

Tusk and Junker's idea of reform is a payrise and a bigger pension.. All the greasy "remain" camp are only in it for themselves. Half the big business types who reccomend remaining also recommended joining the Euro.We know how that panned out.. Clowns, the rest are either subsidised by the EU (The CBI and the BBC ) or expect a well paid retirement job in Brussels.. <deleted> UK citizens grow some balls and vote out.. The EU is a deadweight that we don't need.

[osiboy]

If UK leaves the EU within months Scotland will leave the union. England (maybe Wales) will then have to renegotiate 40 years of laws and treaties to maintain any semblance of trade with europe. People with property in Europe will have to renegotiate both the ownership and their rights of residence. Those with jobs in Europe will have to get new visas.....those who rely on Europe for food and wine will have to wait for taxes and duties to be re-allotted, those with foreign cars will find they all have import duties. the NHS will be completely dismantled all labour laws will be re-written to the advantage of employers and the UK diet will consist of boiled mutton and turnips.

I would'nt count on Wales staying with England either tho , if the UK votes to leave i think Wales will follow Scotland and remain as part of the EU, i know i would vote to leave England if that were the case and most of the Welsh ppl i talk to say the same ,Imagine,... we could all take our thai brides home without having to earn a london wage to enable us to live in a village in the valleys where a house cost 60-80k !, Its simple prejudice againt low earners pure and simple ,....the little ppl that make the economy tick are always the first fall guys

[MJP]

If UK leaves the EU within months Scotland will leave the union. England (maybe Wales) will then have to renegotiate 40 years of laws and treaties to maintain any semblance of trade with europe. People with property in Europe will have to renegotiate both the ownership and their rights of residence. Those with jobs in Europe will have to get new visas.....those who rely on Europe for food and wine will have to wait for taxes and duties to be re-allotted, those with foreign cars will find they all have import duties. the NHS will be completely dismantled all labour laws will be re-written to the advantage of employers and the UK diet will consist of boiled mutton and turnips.

I would'nt count on Wales staying with England either tho , if the UK votes to leave i think Wales will follow Scotland and remain as part of the EU, i know i would vote to leave England if that were the case and most of the Welsh ppl i talk to say the same ,Imagine,... we could all take our thai brides home without having to earn a london wage to enable us to live in a village in the valleys where a house cost 60-80k !, Its simple prejudice againt low earners pure and simple ,....the little ppl that make the economy tick are always the first fall guys

Around 50% of the Welsh economy is government spending. The other 50% are on the dole. Good luck.