Thais warned not to act as nominees of alien businessmen

[impulse]

I've always felt the laws in Thailand should be reciprocated when Thais go abroad.

If I can't own land here, Thais should not be permitted to own land in my country. But dont stop there. They must also have constant check-in with immigration (or border runs), and ever changing visa rules, and so on.

If this were the case, you can bet the laws here would change real quick.

Chances are, if they did have true reciprocity- most of the middle class expats here would have never qualified for a visa to even visit Thailand.

Average Thai, making an average Thai worker's wage? They'll never be allowed to set foot on the shores of the USA, Europe, or Oz.

I'd much rather hold my passport and have to deal (or not) with Thailand regulations, than to hold a Thai passport and have to deal with the Nanny State regulations. (unless, of course, I'm one of the 1% of the 1% from Thailand, but who are we kidding?).

Edited February 23, 2016 by impulse

[tomacht8]

It's interesting to point out, that in fact, there is NO law forbidding nominees, therefore, NO laws are broken.. So I fail to understand just what you would be charged with. Perhaps someone, in the media, could ask Ms Pongphan Jianviriyaphan, and enlighten us.

The problem is that many foreigners who have acquired (talk into taking) such business structures, not even aware of their nominees and also many nominees not have the capital.

So in the worst case the proud owner of a 30 Million Beach Villa can then make a 51% capital donation to his nominees.

Insane who buys land or opens a business in Thailand with such structures.

The foreigner give 100% capital, creates jobs and pays taxes.

In fact, his investment is only 49% worth of the capital he invest.

Stupidity needs punishment.

[Nemesis7]

moto: Just give all that you have you foreigners and just shut up.

[stickylies]

western countries should reciprocate Thailand rules on Thais doing business , see how they like being Alienated.

Western countries lack that special Thai gene. It takes generations of eating bpla raa to get that. 555

Edited February 23, 2016 by stickylies

[seancbk]

It's interesting to point out, that in fact, there is NO law forbidding nominees, therefore, NO laws are broken.. So I fail to understand just what you would be charged with. Perhaps someone, in the media, could ask Ms Pongphan Jianviriyaphan, and enlighten us.

Neither is there any problem with preferred shares.

You can own 49% of the company but have more than 50% of the actual voting shares.

[lkv]

It's interesting to point out, that in fact, there is NO law forbidding nominees, therefore, NO laws are broken.. So I fail to understand just what you would be charged with. Perhaps someone, in the media, could ask Ms Pongphan Jianviriyaphan, and enlighten us.

Neither is there any problem with preferred shares.

You can own 49% of the company but have more than 50% of the actual voting shares.

I think you no understand.

You Alien, here Thailand.

You have 121 cards in your house, you break the law. For a "small" fee, you don't.

You have 90 cards in the house? Believe me, i tell you you have 121. You don't believe. Never mind, we'll see what the judge says.

Was having a quick look over the Penal Code. Now I'm not an expert, but my first impression was that so many loopholes were left in it that it can be twisted in any way shape or form.

I mean look, you have an accident, it was your fault. Had you not been in Thailand, it would not have happened.

Go figure.

But hey, I understand China is a good investment at the moment (lol), I mean if they say overseas is a good investment we should follow their advice. They must know what they are talking about. Surely if it's good enough for Thai people, it should be good enough for us.

Edited February 23, 2016 by lkv

[Sydebolle]

Most "local" wrong-doers, literally all politicians and most oligarch business empires are ethnic Chinese from the (today's) Red North. The ethnic Thai buffalo-plows the Northeast on his debt-ridden land almost unable to service the loan sharks de facto highway robbery business practices and gets furthermore screwed by all those dodgy middlemen - the real problem here is not the "alien" load but rather their latest avalanche of migrants some +/- 60 years ago.

More interesting will be the effect in 15-20 years when the 50/50's - European" Thai kids (with Thai citizenship) with a better education, worldliness and varying levels of exposure to the feeling of resentment foreigners get when living here; albeit, they are married to a Thai and have invested their life and savings here.

Teach you children well!

I have three, international-school-educated grown half European/half Thai "kids". One lives in the US for good (I am European), the two elder ones live here. Daily frustrations working here with the complete absence of common sense, mostly complete absence of skills and - the worst of all - completely disinterested. Their educational background elevated them to upper middle management positions very fast and their "network" from school/university works serious wonders.

Basically the same as what I referred to with the Chinese immigration wave of post WWII - the difference is that they are European in professional, social and character values with individuality, multi-language skills and hence more flexible as no old China man is breathing down their neck nor prohibits to follow their own dreams (a privilege I could enjoy already)

[ruirui]

western countries should reciprocate Thailand rules on Thais doing business , see how they like being Alienated.

Maybe the reciprocation should also be extended to land ownership, ninety day reporting, access to passports etc etc

Should be 100% reciprocal. Thai restaurants should require a national of the country owning 51%. No property can be bought by a Thai. Just the same as we have in Thailand. If it is good for us then it must be good for Thai's in our countries.

[ruirui]

western countries should reciprocate Thailand rules on Thais doing business , see how they like being Alienated.

Maybe the reciprocation should also be extended to land ownership, ninety day reporting, access to passports etc etc

Imagine the Asian tantrum, if we started not allowing Asians to have special jobs. And what about if we made a new law that says,

1.if you are Asian you will get paid less than the locals.

2.an Asian person cannot own a business fully.

3.an Asian person cannot buy a house for their family.

4.an Asian person cannot work in a supermarket, as a tour guide, as a taxi driver as a. ..... even if they are married to a national and have a family.

5.an Asian person cannot be a hooked, lest they take business away from the local girls or boys as the case may be.

It's time we changed our laws.

[dageurreotype]

They really know how to kill things off. Just look at Pattaya so many businesses set up and operated by Farang, just sold off to Thais, Mostly because the Thai Landlord put rents up to an untradeable level, No head whatsoever for economics.

They are just not aware that the money that was around 7-8 years ago is just not there anymore, so instead of generating business, they just sit and twiddle their thumbs until it's time to pack up and go.

Who are these people at the top, running the country? Do they honestly believe that an Issan can serve and operate a business for Westerners better than a farang and that, that is better for Thailand.

The Old man that robed the country so much and inflicted atrocities really knew how to progress business and develop tourism. Now it is just sick

Yes, have to admit that Pattaya wouldn't be what it is today without all those farang pimps

[xylophone]

My post from another thread........... this basically dealing with the Thai nominee situation, irrespective of voting rights etc, because if the Thai nominees have not invested in the company and are purely there as a "paperwork exercise" then the business set up is a sham, more so, if this "business" is purely for the purposes of buying land and house,

And the losers will be......?

"Thai nationals have been warned not to act as nominees of alien businessmen operating in tourism and real estate businesses or they may face a maximum three-year imprisonment and a fine of between 100,000 and one million baht, said Ms Pongphan Jianviriyaphan, director-general of Business Development Department, on Monday".

AND

"She warned Thais not to act as alien businessmen’s nominees in setting up businesses in Thailand or they may face heavy fines and imprisonment".

Whilst I suspect that this is primarily aimed at Thai nominees in respect of businesses that are actually operating, it surely follows that any registered business is up for scrutiny including those that don't actually do anything other than own land/houses. In fact a couple of years ago it was stated that Thai "shareholders" of companies with an alien shareholding would have to show proof of their investment in that company, otherwise face large fines.

Writing on the wall or simply to be ignored by farangs...........??

[dageurreotype]

My post from another thread........... this basically dealing with the Thai nominee situation, irrespective of voting rights etc, because if the Thai nominees have not invested in the company and are purely there as a "paperwork exercise" then the business set up is a sham, more so, if this "business" is purely for the purposes of buying land and house,

And the losers will be......?

"Thai nationals have been warned not to act as nominees of alien businessmen operating in tourism and real estate businesses or they may face a maximum three-year imprisonment and a fine of between 100,000 and one million baht, said Ms Pongphan Jianviriyaphan, director-general of Business Development Department, on Monday".

AND

"She warned Thais not to act as alien businessmen’s nominees in setting up businesses in Thailand or they may face heavy fines and imprisonment".

Whilst I suspect that this is primarily aimed at Thai nominees in respect of businesses that are actually operating, it surely follows that any registered business is up for scrutiny including those that don't actually do anything other than own land/houses. In fact a couple of years ago it was stated that Thai "shareholders" of companies with an alien shareholding would have to show proof of their investment in that company, otherwise face large fines.

Writing on the wall or simply to be ignored by farangs...........??

The latter

[HenryB]

The next crack down will be single family houses. Many Farangs will lose million of Baht

I hope it is not me

Edited February 24, 2016 by HenryB

[Jack Garbo]

The new law requires the planet of origin of alien entrepreners. Nothing about language skills but telepathy permit required.

[SoFarAndNear]

Just to make it clear. If I want to found a company to open a Restaurant in Thailand together with my Thai wife which I have child with, I will also need to find another Thai citizen with who will found the company? And all of them have to proof that their initial invest is their own money and not mine?

[halloween]

Just to make it clear. If I want to found a company to open a Restaurant in Thailand together with my Thai wife which I have child with, I will also need to find another Thai citizen with who will found the company? And all of them have to proof that their initial invest is their own money and not mine?

AFAIK, yes. I also believe that if a farang buys house/land in his wife's name, there is a need to prove the finance comes from HER income and not from her husband as a gift.

[seancbk]

Just to make it clear. If I want to found a company to open a Restaurant in Thailand together with my Thai wife which I have child with, I will also need to find another Thai citizen with who will found the company? And all of them have to proof that their initial invest is their own money and not mine?

Your wife as a Thai can simply start the business as a sole proprietorship. You could then (if you wanted, and if there were enough Thai staff) be employed by your wife to provide managerial skills.

If you want to have a Limited company then you need a minimum of 3 Promoters. You, your wife and a third party. A promoter of a Private Limited company must be 12 years old or older.

If your child is 12+ then your wife and child can be 2 of three and you the third.

Once the company is formed the Promoters hand it over to the Directors. These can be the same people. You need a minimum of 3 shareholders at all times.

Both common and preferred shares of stock may be issued, but all shares must have voting rights. <--- this means you (the foreigner) may only own 49% (actually you can own more - see below) of the business, but by owning preferred shares you can control the Board of Directors, which effectively means you 'own' and 'control' the company. Only owning 49% of the business refers to 49% of the profits. It does not mean someone can get hold of the other 51% and kick you out.

These are important points and *most* people on this forum don't understand how this works.... read carefully.

A minimum of three shareholders is required at all times. Under certain conditions, a private limited company may be wholly owned by foreigners. However, in those activities reserved for Thai nationals under the Foreign Business Act, foreigner participation is generally allowed up to a maximum of 49% capital shares. The registration fee for the MOA and establishing the company is 5,500 baht per million baht of registered capital.

The 49% capital shares limited in certain reserved businesses can be exceeded or exempted if a Foreign Business License is granted. If the desired business is unique, does not compete with Thai businesses, or involves dealings among members of an affiliated company, the chance of approval is more probable. Conditions, such as minimum capital, transfer of technology and reporting requirements, may be attached to Foreign Business Licenses.

This page provides much more information. http://www.boi.go.th/index.php?page=setting_up_a_business

My post is not LEGAL advice, merely information I have gathered ahead of investing significant money into a large scale private limited company.

I believe strongly that Thailand offers massive opportunities, although I'm not talking about one restaurant with a few staff, I'm talking opening 50 restaurants across Bangkok and then expanding across the country.

Best of Luck!

Edited February 24, 2016 by seancbk

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

How about foreigners who send 50,000 dollars to thai women wanting them to buy property for them? Doesn't that make her a nominee?

[lkv]

For 50K i think foreigners would be better off buying land on the moon, I think it's a safer investment. Plus, as Aliens, they can have 100% ownership.

[Peter Strand]

Foreigners who send 50K to a Thai woman to buy a house are nutcases and need to receive treatment for mental illness

[jmccarty]

It is not much different in any developing nation. They want to get their own people in their feet first. But with limited money, the masses end up selling noodles out of street carts and the local high flyers own 98% of what the foreign juggernauts don't negotiate a way in. The nominees are generally lawyers with firms that make all of their money servicing these foreign owned and financed companies regardless of the actual function. The alternative is no property market anywhere near what is there now. And no Thai developers though mixed with Falang and Lao and Burmese workers would move money and development through the country. Or at least a substantial reduction.

Here is a good idea from Trump, build walls at your borders like East Germany did. See how that works out.

[DavisH]

And very soon it Will be about houses and real estate bought in thaï names . Wife or not , it is illegal here . Land department want to crack down on foreigner who give money to buy houses

I guess you know that the foreigner signs the form at the Land Department to state that the money comes from the wife and the foreign husband thus has no claim over it. Whether that is legal or now, I don't know. But that is the common practice, at least when we got our my wife's house

Thais should really remove their rose tinted glasses. Not every one of those 25M tourists who visit actually want to stay and buy up loads of land / run businesses / live here. Most of them are of the ilk "nice place to visit, wouldn't wanna live there'. I think they worry too much. Anyone who has lived and worked here 10 years and has a Thai family should be able to buy a small block of land to have a house.

[DavisH]

How about foreigners who send 50,000 dollars to thai women wanting them to buy property for them? Doesn't that make her a nominee?

The government couldn't care less because he booty ends up in Thai hands....always. If the farang is very lucky, he might get to sleep in her house on occasion lol