Is the E.U as we know it ,finished ?

[i claudius]

Now i know a lot of you will say no , And Britain if it leaves will make no difference ,well that may be so , But the mass migrations that we are seeing now is just the start , in the years to come its not only going to be wars and terrorism that country's are going to have to deal with ,there is a population explosion in underdeveloped country's , there is a lack of food ,water and all things that are essential ,as more people fight for them the stream of economic migrants will become a flood of biblical proportions , this if nothing else will doom the E.U as they all refuse to take more and more people , also the west as we knew it will be changed beyond all recognition , and as the money runs out ,will it effect out pensions? forget rises (they are not going to happen) what about their payment to us that we get now ?

[nong38]

The Euro budget is going from !60B Euros to 180 Billion, well thats what the commission are saying that they require. At a time like this you might they think that they might just wonder where the extra is coming from if the UK left. I would have thought they might just have wondered what happen to the EU if we left, what would be the effect on them, pros and cons. They clearly think it aint going to happen, we will vote to stay in and put up with them.

There are those who think that if we left we might not be the first to leave, there would be a domino effect and if we did leave I am sure they would come back with some extras and we have a 2nd chance to vote the right way, well I dont think there would be a 2nd vote on our vote, out is out.

There has also been a bit said about the effect on the £ if we were to leave but what would be the effect on the Euro when its number member leaves, hardly a vote of confidence in the group or its currency, which happily we never signed up to.

Leaving would be a huge body blow to the EU and we would have a chance to do what we do best trade freely and with whom we wanted on our terms, some see it as a leap into the dark/unknown I see it as a great opportunity for a new future that is in our hands.

The EU is a failing group, why would we want to be involved with a group that for the last 20+ years its own auditors have not been able to sign off the books. What have they done with the money why does nobody seem to care, any private company would be hauled over the coals.

Is it the end of the EU, not yet, but it is the begining of the end.

Edited February 26, 2016 by nong38

[daveAustin]

Yes. Doomed whether Britain leaves or not. It's overseen by pc liberal knobs. If Britain leaves, it'll have less standing in the world and so will Britain but at least those on the latter have a nice natural border. [emoji6]

[lungbing]

I voted to join the Common Market 40 odd years ago. Britain then was a manufacturing country that needed to trade. In fact a short-arsed Frenchman called Napoleon called us a nation of shopkeepers.

40 years ago the members of the Common Market all had roughly the same standard of living. But now you have just three or four countries paying in and 24 countries taking out. Britain's vote counts for nothing, or to be precise 1 out of 28.

Britain (or the component parts) have been sovereign nations for over a thousand years and I have no doubt we'd make a success of it again. It was a nice experiment, but it's failed. And the only ones in favour of it are those who get something out of it, or might do later on in their political lives. And that includes the BBC who get a lot of money to promote the EU.

I'm voting to leave and I urge other Brits to do the same.

[uksomchai]

Hungary and the Dutch are now hinting that they may hold a referendum on membership like the UK is doing. Once the EU gets a leave vote the panic will set in. Just as every other time people have been given a vote and have voted NO they will make the UK vote again or at least try to. Once the UK does go the EU is finished that is if there is anything left of the EIU to vote to leave come referendum date

[nong38]

Hungary and the Dutch are now hinting that they may hold a referendum on membership like the UK is doing. Once the EU gets a leave vote the panic will set in. Just as every other time people have been given a vote and have voted NO they will make the UK vote again or at least try to. Once the UK does go the EU is finished that is if there is anything left of the EIU to vote to leave come referendum date

The unemployment rate in Brussels will surge and those unaccountable EU commission folk will drown in the trough.

[SgtRock]

Yes.

Not because of the migrant crisis. History tells us so. Not once has an Empire survived the test of time. Call it what you will but the EU has been nothing other than Empire building, achieved through coercion, stealth and political dogma rather than violence.

The current migration crisis is only a small crisis, it will only become a crisis in the next 5 - 10 years. What it has done is show the EU for what it is. Disjointed, unorganised and unable to react to a crisis, regardless of how small. The strength of a Union does not show when things are going well, the strength of a Union shows in the face of adversity. The relatively small crisis of the migrants, highlights quite clearly the strength of the Union. There is no union, it is all a façade, that much is blatantly obvious.

Nong38

Quote

The Euro budget is going from !60B Euros to 180 Billion, well thats what the commission are saying that they require. At a time like this you might they think that they might just wonder where the extra is coming from if the UK left

They already know where the money is coming from. I suggest that you read this as a starting point. It also highlights the underhand tactics that the EU uses.

http://www.politico.eu/article/brussels-presses-brexit-hold-button-uk-referendum-campaign-eu-legislation/

This is merely one example. There are many others if you care to look.

What is also notable by its absence is the EU decision to allow Turkey access to the Schengen Zone as of October 2016. Info is freely available if you care to look.

That suggests to me 2 things, either:

1. The EU have came to this decision without Cameron's knowledge, in which case, it highlights just what an irrelevance the UK is within the EU, or
2. Cameron is fully in the picture with this and has not disclosed it to the UK public.

Yet more lies emanating from Cameron and No 10. It was also nice to see Gen Rose deliver a stinging rebuke:

http://news.sky.com/story/1647458/ex-generals-name-off-list-of-eu-supporters

Would the UK actually be better off outside the EU ? That is open to debate, but I do not see any reason why it would not be. One thing that is certain, the constant lying of those that wish to stay '' In '' in itself, would make me vote to leave, regardless of the consequences. I for one do not need the EU to hold my hand when I need to do something and I do not know anyone else who does either.

[nong38]

Its not just Turkey its Bosnia as well, The EU we think we know now will not be the one we are voting on shortly it will be a different animal again and to be sure it will be cries of " didnt you know?"

Edited February 27, 2016 by nong38

[SgtRock]

nong38, on 27 Feb 2016 - 18:37, said:

Its not just Turkey its Bosnia as well, The EU shortly will npt be the one we are voting on shortly it will be a different animal again and to be sure it will be cries of " didnt you know"

Without a doubt.

Which is why I said on another thread, the exit campaign do not need an exit strategy.

I think a daily bulletin of the lies, smoke and mirrors and obfuscation of the In group would probably be enough in itself, to ensure a Brexit.

After all the drama concerning Gove and the Legal standing of Cameron's deal, the AG now says.

Quote

The Attorney General has said he is only "reasonably confident" the UK's new EU deal will make it through the European Parliament to become legally binding.

http://news.sky.com/story/1647482/reasonably-confident-in-eu-deal-govt-lawyer

There were calls for Gove to be sacked and then the AG comes out with this little blinder.

As much as I think Gove is a clown, he got this spot on. Clearly, at this stage it is not legally binding.

[sirineou]

Once Britain negotiated a new deal by definition the EU as we knew it finished and a slightly different EU emerged, The EU , has and is a work in progress.

IMO the danger now is, that once a member nation get's special considerations by threatening to leave,other member nations will threaten to leave if they also did not also get special considerations, signaling the beginning of the end.

IMO a Brexit will be a good thing for the EU, I am also looking forward to a German Exit and perhaps a French exit, This will devalue the Euro to a realistic level for the rest of the member nations, allowing their economies to recover.This will be good for the EU , and good for Germany Britain and France, as their exports to a healthy EU will increase..

Once the rest of the economies in the EU have recovered and are on equal or comparable footing with Germany Britain and France, a re-integration would be sustainable.

[PattayaAl]

Let me put it for you this way , during Lebanese civil war, Australia took in from memory 30 000 Lebanese, now there are over 350 000 .

So if EU took in one million expect to have 10 million in the nearest future.

Most are poor and poorly educated, so expect crimes to go up, which means not only inflated budget for police but also jails and all the rest support services.

Yes, your pensions will dry up pretty soon, so will your insurance premiums rising at speeds of light.

EU is not in best financial shape at the moment,it's only going to get worse on a number of levels.

[Ricardo]

I think that, were the EU to collapse, the several original-members might well try to revive it again, but in an earlier version.

That made good economic sense, but the over-expansion of the original group is now running into trouble, and whatever sort of European union there is has to show benefits for its members.

[sirineou]

One question to those who know more about this than me,

Britain exits. will Scotland exit with them? or other UK members? What will this do to the UK?

[SgtRock]

sirineou, on 27 Feb 2016 - 19:03, said:

One question to those who know more about this than me,

Britain exits. will Scotland exit with them? or other UK members? What will this do to the UK?

The UK is the member of the EU, not separate Nations. 1 out all out.

I have said on a number of threads recently, that if Scotland had been voting to leave the rUK and the EU it would have been a landslide for out.

As much as it goes against what Sturgeon says she does not have anywhere near the support she is claiming for remaining in the EU.

The SNP have always canvassed for an Independent Scotland. Their Party their Policy.

I am still waiting for someone to give me an answer on who being part of the EU makes you Independent.

[sirineou]

sirineou, on 27 Feb 2016 - 19:03, said:

One question to those who know more about this than me,

Britain exits. will Scotland exit with them? or other UK members? What will this do to the UK?

The UK is the member of the EU, not separate Nations. 1 out all out.

I have said on a number of threads recently, that if Scotland had been voting to leave the rUK and the EU it would have been a landslide for out.

As much as it goes against what Sturgeon says she does not have anywhere near the support she is claiming for remaining in the EU.

The SNP have always canvassed for an Independent Scotland. Their Party their Policy.

I am still waiting for someone to give me an answer on who being part of the EU makes you Independent.

I am an American, and certainly dont know as much about this as you guys do,

In my office and car I have Bloomberg Financial news on the radio all the time. All experts say , if Brexit occurs it is certain for a Scottish Independence referendum to occur with in a year, If the results of the Brexit have a negative affect, as most experts expect it will, they say that such referendum has a much higher probability of being successful than the previous one.

A simple google search "brexit Scotland" will have plenty of returns most of which state that Scottish sentiment is to remain in the EU

My thinking is, if Scotland separates, and remains in the EU, and if such move proves to be beneficial to Scotland, would it foster a separatist movement in other UK members?

Just food for thought

Edited February 27, 2016 by sirineou

[NanLaew]

sirineou, on 27 Feb 2016 - 19:03, said:

One question to those who know more about this than me,

Britain exits. will Scotland exit with them? or other UK members? What will this do to the UK?

The UK is the member of the EU, not separate Nations. 1 out all out.

I have said on a number of threads recently, that if Scotland had been voting to leave the rUK and the EU it would have been a landslide for out.

As much as it goes against what Sturgeon says she does not have anywhere near the support she is claiming for remaining in the EU.

The SNP have always canvassed for an Independent Scotland. Their Party their Policy.

I am still waiting for someone to give me an answer on who being part of the EU makes you Independent.

I am an American, and certainly dont know as much about this as you guys do,

In my office and car I have Bloomberg Financial news on the radio all the time. All experts say , if Brexit occurs it is certain for a Scottish Independence referendum to occur with in a year, If the results of the Brexit have a negative affect, as most experts expect it will, they say that such referendum has a much higher probability of being successful than the previous one.

A simple google search "brexit Scotland" will have plenty of returns most of which state that Scottish sentiment is to remain in the EU

My thinking is, if Scotland separates, and remains in the EU, and if such move proves to be beneficial to Scotland, would it foster a separatist movement in other UK members?

Just food for thought

Of course an independent Scotland would want to stay in the EU. They wouldn't be able to survive without the huge handouts that the EU gives to other basket cases like Romania, Portugal and Estonia.

All through Cameron's 'negotiations', Donald Tusk was making much of a Brexit possibly meaning the end of the EU. I thought that as current President of the European Council he was the speaking for all the members. However, have a look at this chart from 2013 and observe what Poland stands to lose if the EU collapses. Maybe that's what's really got his ass puckering.

[SgtRock]

I am an American, and certainly dont know as much about this as you guys do,

In my office and car I have Bloomberg Financial news on the radio all the time. All experts say , if Brexit occurs it is certain for a Scottish Independence referendum to occur with in a year, If the results of the Brexit have a negative affect, as most experts expect it will, they say that such referendum has a much higher probability of being successful than the previous one.

A simple google search "brexit Scotland" will have plenty of returns most of which state that Scottish sentiment is to remain in the EU

My thinking is, if Scotland separates, and remains in the EU, and if such move proves to be beneficial to Scotland, would it foster a separatist movement in other UK members?

Just food for thought

Do not forget that there is elements of the US Establishment that have a vested interest in the UK staying in the EU.

A google search of UK press will probably also show that Trump has no chance of being POTUS either.

As it seems likely that he will win the Republican Primaries that gives him a 50 / 50 chance of becoming POTUS.

Others will throw in their own thoughts, I believe that Wales and N.Ireland could not stand on their own 2 feet, so that would be a non starter. Could Scotland go it alone, I have no idea but certainly a better chance than the 2 I just mentioned.

There is the small the small matter of the EU referendum before needing to worry about anything else.

[sirineou]

sirineou, on 27 Feb 2016 - 19:03, said:

One question to those who know more about this than me,

Britain exits. will Scotland exit with them? or other UK members? What will this do to the UK?

The UK is the member of the EU, not separate Nations. 1 out all out.

I have said on a number of threads recently, that if Scotland had been voting to leave the rUK and the EU it would have been a landslide for out.

As much as it goes against what Sturgeon says she does not have anywhere near the support she is claiming for remaining in the EU.

The SNP have always canvassed for an Independent Scotland. Their Party their Policy.

I am still waiting for someone to give me an answer on who being part of the EU makes you Independent.

I am an American, and certainly dont know as much about this as you guys do,

In my office and car I have Bloomberg Financial news on the radio all the time. All experts say , if Brexit occurs it is certain for a Scottish Independence referendum to occur with in a year, If the results of the Brexit have a negative affect, as most experts expect it will, they say that such referendum has a much higher probability of being successful than the previous one.

A simple google search "brexit Scotland" will have plenty of returns most of which state that Scottish sentiment is to remain in the EU

My thinking is, if Scotland separates, and remains in the EU, and if such move proves to be beneficial to Scotland, would it foster a separatist movement in other UK members?

Just food for thought

Of course an independent Scotland would want to stay in the EU. They wouldn't be able to survive without the huge handouts that the EU gives to other basket cases like Romania, Portugal and Estonia.

All through Cameron's 'negotiations', Donald Tusk was making much of a Brexit possibly meaning the end of the EU. I thought that as current President of the European Council he was the speaking for all the members. However, have a look at this chart from 2013 and observe what Poland stands to lose if the EU collapses. Maybe that's what's really got his ass puckering.

eu_pot.jpg

Benefits derived from the operating budget ("Pot") and benefited derived from membership are two different things

One could successfully argue that Germany as a net exporter benefits far more than other importing countries from membership in the EU

[Naam]

Hungary and the Dutch are now hinting that they may hold a referendum on membership like the UK is doing. Once the EU gets a leave vote the panic will set in. Just as every other time people have been given a vote and have voted NO they will make the UK vote again or at least try to. Once the UK does go the EU is finished that is if there is anything left of the EIU to vote to leave come referendum date

[Naam]

Let me put it for you this way , during Lebanese civil war, Australia took in from memory 30 000 Lebanese, now there are over 350 000 .

So if EU took in one million expect to have 10 million in the nearest future.

Most are poor and poorly educated, so expect crimes to go up, which means not only inflated budget for police but also jails and all the rest support services.

Yes, your pensions will dry up pretty soon, so will your insurance premiums rising at speeds of light.

EU is not in best financial shape at the moment,it's only going to get worse on a number of levels.

So if EU took in one million expect to have 10 million in the nearest future.

that's because the migrants lay eggs which hatch already after 6 weeks

note: Arab population in Austria (from various Arab countries) total 17.900

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs_in_Austria

next comment (drawn out of thin air) please.

[sirineou]

I am an American, and certainly dont know as much about this as you guys do,

In my office and car I have Bloomberg Financial news on the radio all the time. All experts say , if Brexit occurs it is certain for a Scottish Independence referendum to occur with in a year, If the results of the Brexit have a negative affect, as most experts expect it will, they say that such referendum has a much higher probability of being successful than the previous one.

A simple google search "brexit Scotland" will have plenty of returns most of which state that Scottish sentiment is to remain in the EU

My thinking is, if Scotland separates, and remains in the EU, and if such move proves to be beneficial to Scotland, would it foster a separatist movement in other UK members?

Just food for thought

Do not forget that there is elements of the US Establishment that have a vested interest in the UK staying in the EU.

A google search of UK press will probably also show that Trump has no chance of being POTUS either.

As it seems likely that he will win the Republican Primaries that gives him a 50 / 50 chance of becoming POTUS.

Others will throw in their own thoughts, I believe that Wales and N.Ireland could not stand on their own 2 feet, so that would be a non starter. Could Scotland go it alone, I have no idea but certainly a better chance than the 2 I just mentioned.

There is the small the small matter of the EU referendum before needing to worry about anything else.

One would hope that Europeans have a better understanding of European politics that they do of American politics.

It is not entirely clear that Trump will get the Republican nomination, But even if he did , it does not necessarily translates to a 50% chance of winning, His chances would greatly depend on who his opponent is, and damage he endure during the nominating process . He might be able to kill Rubio, but it might be a murder suicide case.

As far as the bias of the European press, I dont know, I defer judgement on that to the Europeans, I simply dont know enough to have an opinion, But I am afraid comment concerning Brexit an Scottish independence are reporter in sources out side Europe.

I mean it does not take a genius to figure out that the separatist movement in Scotland would use brexit a leverage to revitalize their movement and that if Brexit becomes negative to Scotland's economy, it would strengthen that movement.

Anyway, I think it is a moot argument , because the UK will not exit the EU, and my reasoning is, if it ddi all these politicians would have to learn to spell big words such as Europe, England ans Scotland instead of EU and UK .

[sirineou]

Let me put it for you this way , during Lebanese civil war, Australia took in from memory 30 000 Lebanese, now there are over 350 000 .

So if EU took in one million expect to have 10 million in the nearest future.

Most are poor and poorly educated, so expect crimes to go up, which means not only inflated budget for police but also jails and all the rest support services.

Yes, your pensions will dry up pretty soon, so will your insurance premiums rising at speeds of light.

EU is not in best financial shape at the moment,it's only going to get worse on a number of levels.

So if EU took in one million expect to have 10 million in the nearest future.

that's because the migrants lay eggs which hatch already after 6 weeks

note: Arab population in Austria (from various Arab countries) total 17.900

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs_in_Austria

next comment (drawn out of thin air) please.

Still chucking over the egg laying comment

[NanLaew]

Let me put it for you this way , during Lebanese civil war, Australia took in from memory 30 000 Lebanese, now there are over 350 000 .

So if EU took in one million expect to have 10 million in the nearest future.

Most are poor and poorly educated, so expect crimes to go up, which means not only inflated budget for police but also jails and all the rest support services.

Yes, your pensions will dry up pretty soon, so will your insurance premiums rising at speeds of light.

EU is not in best financial shape at the moment,it's only going to get worse on a number of levels.

So if EU took in one million expect to have 10 million in the nearest future.

that's because the migrants lay eggs which hatch already after 6 weeks

note: Arab population in Austria (from various Arab countries) total 17.900

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs_in_Austria

next comment (drawn out of thin air) please.

Still chucking over the egg laying comment

Scouse eggs are no laughing matter!

[ThaiKneeTim]

One question to those who know more about this than me,

Britain exits. will Scotland exit with them? or other UK members? What will this do to the UK?

I think you're confusing England with Britain. Great Britain is comprised of England, Wales and Scotland.

[sirineou]

One question to those who know more about this than me,

Britain exits. will Scotland exit with them? or other UK members? What will this do to the UK?

I think you're confusing England with Britain. Great Britain is comprised of England, Wales and Scotland.

I understand the difference between Britain and England, But this referendum is for Britain, and if Britain votes to exit, would Scotland's wish to remain in the EU be greater than their desire to remain in the UK? After all they have already expressed a desire to separate , if I remember correctly it failed by only 9 percentage points, Could a Breixit close the gap?

[Ricardo]

One question to those who know more about this than me,

Britain exits. will Scotland exit with them? or other UK members? What will this do to the UK?

I think you're confusing England with Britain. Great Britain is comprised of England, Wales and Scotland.

erm ... not to forget our Northern Irish friends ?

[PattayaAl]

Let me put it for you this way , during Lebanese civil war, Australia took in from memory 30 000 Lebanese, now there are over 350 000 .

So if EU took in one million expect to have 10 million in the nearest future.

Most are poor and poorly educated, so expect crimes to go up, which means not only inflated budget for police but also jails and all the rest support services.

Yes, your pensions will dry up pretty soon, so will your insurance premiums rising at speeds of light.

EU is not in best financial shape at the moment,it's only going to get worse on a number of levels.

So if EU took in one million expect to have 10 million in the nearest future.

that's because the migrants lay eggs which hatch already after 6 weeks

note: Arab population in Austria (from various Arab countries) total 17.900

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs_in_Austria

next comment (drawn out of thin air) please.

No that's because not only natural growth but also more family comes over and with 10 brothers and 50 cousins plus all their wife and kids one migrant turns into 50 and all happy to do as little as possible .

[BaldPlumber]

One question to those who know more about this than me,

Britain exits. will Scotland exit with them? or other UK members? What will this do to the UK?

I think you're confusing England with Britain. Great Britain is comprised of England, Wales and Scotland.

Also confusing terms, Great Britain and the United Kingdom.

[NanLaew]

One question to those who know more about this than me,

Britain exits. will Scotland exit with them? or other UK members? What will this do to the UK?

I think you're confusing England with Britain. Great Britain is comprised of England, Wales and Scotland.

Also confusing terms, Great Britain and the United Kingdom.

As it says on the British Passport, the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"

Right now, Scotland is part of Great Britain and thus the United Kingdom. It is the UK that is having a referendum on EU membership or Brexit as it has been popularly(?) labeled. Thus the Scots will have to take their lumps with whatever the whole of the UK decides. If they feel sufficiently emboldened to start their independence dance again, then carry on.

BTW, why doesn't the media call it Brin instead of Brexit? There was great debate over a year leading up to the Scotland out referendum to ensure that the question being posed was as neutral and unbiased as possible. Unfortunately, the media seems overwhelmingly anti-EU so the subliminal messages of the herd seem well in hand.

[BaldPlumber]

The "herd" would probably rather remain where they are as they wouldn't dare risk a change to the status quo.