PM tells farmers to plant crops which consume less water

[beerzy]

Somehow I don't think planting tomatoes and zucchini will be a great substitute for rice in the Thai diet.

Of course, it's too hard to admit that their water management systems aren't even on a par with 5th century Europe.

Of course it is equally hard for some people to accept and understand that the current government has inherited decades of inefficient water management from many previous governments, who over those decades did very little to improve the system.

The current government is damned by many for not fixing 20 or 30 years of problems in a couple of years, compounded of course by the prolonged El Nino drought which I am sure people want to blame them for also.

Whilst it is good for some people to blame the current government for all the ills and woes in much the same way that other posters blame Thaksin for all the corruption for the past 15 years or so.

Until ALL the Thai people are treated the same and work together for the benefit of ALL the Thai people, little will be achieved in the way of progress.

You can slag off the PM all you like but he is right in saying that many Thai farmers need to change their ways. Doing things the old way doesn't seem to work any more.

For example Vietnam produces far more rice than Thailand per rai so IMO Thailand should send farmers to Vietnam to see how they can produce more for less.

Changing crops for those which use less water is a good idea BUT simply saying so does not make it so.

The questions to ask are, what to change to, what is the market like, can farmers make a profit with a new crop, what help can the government give apart from money? Should farmers build and run their own co-operatives? If so who can manage it openly and honestly.

Instead of making sarcastic remarks, why not think it through and come up with your own ideas what where and how things can be changed.

Do recall that the current government is a military organization that has been in control of now twelve governments since 1933. It has alone established 20 constitutions and shuffled the government organization and passed hundreds of laws to reform the whole of Thai society. Together with the royalist Democrat party allied with the military in all that time, nonroyalist regimes have actually been in control of government a minority of the time.

So the current regime cannot be excused for inherited problems.

The RTM is itself an inherited problem.

Yes thats true inherited but this really isn't a real excuse in Thailand. ie if you have a problem you fix it and that way society moves forward. If you dont make improvements then nothing changes. if this situation happened in a democratically elected government then they would be sacked....and voted out.

[billd766]

Somehow I don't think planting tomatoes and zucchini will be a great substitute for rice in the Thai diet.

Of course, it's too hard to admit that their water management systems aren't even on a par with 5th century Europe.

Of course it is equally hard for some people to accept and understand that the current government has inherited decades of inefficient water management from many previous governments, who over those decades did very little to improve the system.

The current government is damned by many for not fixing 20 or 30 years of problems in a couple of years, compounded of course by the prolonged El Nino drought which I am sure people want to blame them for also.

Whilst it is good for some people to blame the current government for all the ills and woes in much the same way that other posters blame Thaksin for all the corruption for the past 15 years or so.

Until ALL the Thai people are treated the same and work together for the benefit of ALL the Thai people, little will be achieved in the way of progress.

You can slag off the PM all you like but he is right in saying that many Thai farmers need to change their ways. Doing things the old way doesn't seem to work any more.

For example Vietnam produces far more rice than Thailand per rai so IMO Thailand should send farmers to Vietnam to see how they can produce more for less.

Changing crops for those which use less water is a good idea BUT simply saying so does not make it so.

The questions to ask are, what to change to, what is the market like, can farmers make a profit with a new crop, what help can the government give apart from money? Should farmers build and run their own co-operatives? If so who can manage it openly and honestly.

Instead of making sarcastic remarks, why not think it through and come up with your own ideas what where and how things can be changed.

A great deal depends on particular circumstances for individual farmers or families.

My partner's family had only ever done subsistence farming until recently, growing only a small amount of rice for family consumption, with some fruits & vegies similarly, a small sugar crop for market, and surviving - like so many in the village - on subsidies from occasional jobs & offspring in BKK, then, from 2012, from falang boyfriend namely me. As El Nino started to threaten Australia early last year with promise for worse to come for SEAsia, I suggested to them that they needed to think thru their alternatives, noting that they live beside a large artificial lake which stole half the farm when the dam was built some 20 or more years ago. What can you do with plenty of water? Well, you can produce two things in constant local demand with no reducing prices such as with rice or sugar or rubber: namely, ducks & fish.

The younger ones were receptive to this way of thinking, and their old dad was too. 18 months later, and with continuing but reducing subsidies from me, we can't keep up with the demand for our fat juicy ducks (Army arrives 2 or 3 times a week to buy 2 or 5 or more, neighbours every day too). And we put in a large fishpond reclaimed from the lake [expensive earthworks] to supplement the small ponds they already have: several thousand fish are now nearing marketable size.

The lesson from this is that people are not against learning new tricks, even people with low or zero levels of education. They just need a practical way forward and that is simply not available to most poor farmers everywhere in Thailand: first they need the concepts, then they need some investment monies and practical resources (and not just water), then growing self-confidence and willingness to try new things will flow. Which is where government & collective efforts can make all the difference. But it requires leadership & persistence. At the local level, that means village headpersons assisted & advised by proactive government agencies ... I don't think this has to be a pipe dream. It can be done, and there are probably better and more generally appiicable examples than mine already out there. The government's job is one of leadership but to expect governments to do everything is silly - it's not desirable even if they had the capacity. It's local leadership, courage and concepts that's required more than centralized command & control.

Thank you for your post which proves that not everyone is lazy or stupid. Many times poor people lack the skills but both want and need to be taught them. Having acquired new skills they can build a new future on them.

Quote "The government's job is one of leadership but to expect governments to do everything is silly - it's not desirable even if they had the capacity. It's local leadership, courage and concepts that's required more than centralized command & control."

I especially agree with this.

[billd766]

Somehow I don't think planting tomatoes and zucchini will be a great substitute for rice in the Thai diet.

Of course, it's too hard to admit that their water management systems aren't even on a par with 5th century Europe.

Of course it is equally hard for some people to accept and understand that the current government has inherited decades of inefficient water management from many previous governments, who over those decades did very little to improve the system.

The current government is damned by many for not fixing 20 or 30 years of problems in a couple of years, compounded of course by the prolonged El Nino drought which I am sure people want to blame them for also.

Whilst it is good for some people to blame the current government for all the ills and woes in much the same way that other posters blame Thaksin for all the corruption for the past 15 years or so.

Until ALL the Thai people are treated the same and work together for the benefit of ALL the Thai people, little will be achieved in the way of progress.

You can slag off the PM all you like but he is right in saying that many Thai farmers need to change their ways. Doing things the old way doesn't seem to work any more.

For example Vietnam produces far more rice than Thailand per rai so IMO Thailand should send farmers to Vietnam to see how they can produce more for less.

Changing crops for those which use less water is a good idea BUT simply saying so does not make it so.

The questions to ask are, what to change to, what is the market like, can farmers make a profit with a new crop, what help can the government give apart from money? Should farmers build and run their own co-operatives? If so who can manage it openly and honestly.

Instead of making sarcastic remarks, why not think it through and come up with your own ideas what where and how things can be changed.

Do recall that the current government is a military organization that has been in control of now twelve governments since 1933. It has alone established 20 constitutions and shuffled the government organization and passed hundreds of laws to reform the whole of Thai society. Together with the royalist Democrat party allied with the military in all that time, nonroyalist regimes have actually been in control of government a minority of the time.

So the current regime cannot be excused for inherited problems.

The RTM is itself an inherited problem.

Yes thats true inherited but this really isn't a real excuse in Thailand. ie if you have a problem you fix it and that way society moves forward. If you dont make improvements then nothing changes. if this situation happened in a democratically elected government then they would be sacked....and voted out.

It did happen during the tenure of the governments of all colours, civil and military over the past 20 or 30 years and nothing happened or changed. Some governments were elected, some were coups and still nothing changed.

[Gsxrnz]

Somehow I don't think planting tomatoes and zucchini will be a great substitute for rice in the Thai diet.

Of course, it's too hard to admit that their water management systems aren't even on a par with 5th century Europe.

Of course it is equally hard for some people to accept and understand that the current government has inherited decades of inefficient water management from many previous governments, who over those decades did very little to improve the system.

The current government is damned by many for not fixing 20 or 30 years of problems in a couple of years, compounded of course by the prolonged El Nino drought which I am sure people want to blame them for also.

Whilst it is good for some people to blame the current government for all the ills and woes in much the same way that other posters blame Thaksin for all the corruption for the past 15 years or so.

Until ALL the Thai people are treated the same and work together for the benefit of ALL the Thai people, little will be achieved in the way of progress.

You can slag off the PM all you like but he is right in saying that many Thai farmers need to change their ways. Doing things the old way doesn't seem to work any more.

For example Vietnam produces far more rice than Thailand per rai so IMO Thailand should send farmers to Vietnam to see how they can produce more for less.

Changing crops for those which use less water is a good idea BUT simply saying so does not make it so.

The questions to ask are, what to change to, what is the market like, can farmers make a profit with a new crop, what help can the government give apart from money? Should farmers build and run their own co-operatives? If so who can manage it openly and honestly.

Instead of making sarcastic remarks, why not think it through and come up with your own ideas what where and how things can be changed.

Mate, point out where I accused the current PM or government of any specific blame. The country has been run by dolts for several hundred years, and they are all to blame equally for the poor water management (and I use the word management very generously), your friend Mr Thakisin included.

So I'll make flip remarks about a comical situation till the buffalo come home if I want to.

And I'm sure if I commissioned a multi million dollar analysis by world experts on how to manage Thailand's water problem and presented it with a pink ribbon to any Thai government (from now or in living memory), it would be consigned to the big round filing cabinet under the nearest desk.

[Ulic]

Don't plant................plant crops that require less water................all crops need some water

and when there is almost none...........Still waiting for the government to cancel Songkran

full stop. Give the public an inch and it will be full on. Only if the government cancels

early will the people understand the extent of the drought. If rain comes they can reverse

the cancelation. After the water is wasted, they can do nothing. (Songkran, ba humbug, )

[Thaidream]

I would really like to see the General limit the throwing of water during Songkran to one day maximum. Thailand cannot afford to throw water away like this during a drought.

[stickylies]

Like camels and cactusses (cactei...cac...you get my point!)???

peyote (mescaline) tourism could boost the economy. count me in!

[stickylies]

I would really like to see the General limit the throwing of water during Songkran to one day maximum. Thailand cannot afford to throw water away like this during a drought.

he will never do that as it's sanouk which is holy in thailand and necessary to keep 95% of the people satisfied

[billd766]

Somehow I don't think planting tomatoes and zucchini will be a great substitute for rice in the Thai diet.

Of course, it's too hard to admit that their water management systems aren't even on a par with 5th century Europe.

Of course it is equally hard for some people to accept and understand that the current government has inherited decades of inefficient water management from many previous governments, who over those decades did very little to improve the system.

The current government is damned by many for not fixing 20 or 30 years of problems in a couple of years, compounded of course by the prolonged El Nino drought which I am sure people want to blame them for also.

Whilst it is good for some people to blame the current government for all the ills and woes in much the same way that other posters blame Thaksin for all the corruption for the past 15 years or so.

Until ALL the Thai people are treated the same and work together for the benefit of ALL the Thai people, little will be achieved in the way of progress.

You can slag off the PM all you like but he is right in saying that many Thai farmers need to change their ways. Doing things the old way doesn't seem to work any more.

For example Vietnam produces far more rice than Thailand per rai so IMO Thailand should send farmers to Vietnam to see how they can produce more for less.

Changing crops for those which use less water is a good idea BUT simply saying so does not make it so.

The questions to ask are, what to change to, what is the market like, can farmers make a profit with a new crop, what help can the government give apart from money? Should farmers build and run their own co-operatives? If so who can manage it openly and honestly.

Instead of making sarcastic remarks, why not think it through and come up with your own ideas what where and how things can be changed.

Mate, point out where I accused the current PM or government of any specific blame. The country has been run by dolts for several hundred years, and they are all to blame equally for the poor water management (and I use the word management very generously), your friend Mr Thakisin included.

So I'll make flip remarks about a comical situation till the buffalo come home if I want to.

And I'm sure if I commissioned a multi million dollar analysis by world experts on how to manage Thailand's water problem and presented it with a pink ribbon to any Thai government (from now or in living memory), it would be consigned to the big round filing cabinet under the nearest desk.

Mr Thaksin is certainly not my friend nor is he a friend to the majority of Thai people.

If you want to keep making flip remarks then do so by all means. They don't contribute to the discussion but if it keeps you happy then go ahead.

[LawrenceN]

Looking at other areas i have been in the world growing millet in the drought areas, could be a small part in helping the farmers woes of no rain, millets have more nutrition than rice and wheat and are more friendly to the environment, there are many varieties,

If the government want to change the mind set of the farmers then (show them) buy buying the millet,to make a start,

poor old Pa he does not know, do this, don't do this , be proactive and LEAD.

While it's true that Thailand (and even China) consumed millet before their adoption of rice cultivation, I doubt they would go back, for several reasons. They changed to rice for its ability to produce more calories in the same space for the same amount of work. Granted you said "a small part", but who do you think is going to buy or eat all of this birdseed? Where's the market? Where's the marketing infrastructure?

They might be able to convince the public to try millet in some trendy cafes, but the public is not going to switch to a birdseed diet. Corn is much more viable, with a much larger market worldwide. There's huge demand for animal feed and high fructose corn syrup, not just corn on the cob. Grain sorghum (aka milo) is another viable option. It's made into molasses used in processed foods and animal feed. Remember that Thailand is a net exporter of rice, and will remain so for some time, even if output is reduced by drought. Thai people will still eat rice at most meals, even if they eventually become an importing country (which is a long way off).

[lvr181]

Looking at other areas i have been in the world growing millet in the drought areas, could be a small part in helping the farmers woes of no rain, millets have more nutrition than rice and wheat and are more friendly to the environment, there are many varieties,

If the government want to change the mind set of the farmers then (show them) buy buying the millet,to make a start,

poor old Pa he does not know, do this, don't do this , be proactive and LEAD.

OMG! You silly silly western (?) farang. "He" is a General and PM. They give orders and expect others to immediately obey!

Nothing to do with being proactive and leading by example and providing proper advice to help solve the problem. This is Thailand (TIT)

"The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who don't have it."

[attrayant]

So general what crops should they plant?????

Potatoes require only one-fourth the water that rice does. It's a staple carbohydrate, so it's a natural substitute for rice. It's more nutrient-dense than rice. I don't see a huge learning curve for farmers since cassava is already grown here and the technique for growing potatoes is similar.

The only disadvantage I can think of is that Thais may not know the many different ways to prepare them. Most Thai houses don't have ovens, so that eliminates some of the tastiest and healthiest ways to prepare potatoes. They'll probably just end up deep-frying them and suffering from a whole new set of consequences.

Any kind of change is going to his some speed bumps along the way.

[beerzy]

Somehow I don't think planting tomatoes and zucchini will be a great substitute for rice in the Thai diet.

Of course, it's too hard to admit that their water management systems aren't even on a par with 5th century Europe.

Of course it is equally hard for some people to accept and understand that the current government has inherited decades of inefficient water management from many previous governments, who over those decades did very little to improve the system.

The current government is damned by many for not fixing 20 or 30 years of problems in a couple of years, compounded of course by the prolonged El Nino drought which I am sure people want to blame them for also.

Whilst it is good for some people to blame the current government for all the ills and woes in much the same way that other posters blame Thaksin for all the corruption for the past 15 years or so.

Until ALL the Thai people are treated the same and work together for the benefit of ALL the Thai people, little will be achieved in the way of progress.

You can slag off the PM all you like but he is right in saying that many Thai farmers need to change their ways. Doing things the old way doesn't seem to work any more.

For example Vietnam produces far more rice than Thailand per rai so IMO Thailand should send farmers to Vietnam to see how they can produce more for less.

Changing crops for those which use less water is a good idea BUT simply saying so does not make it so.

The questions to ask are, what to change to, what is the market like, can farmers make a profit with a new crop, what help can the government give apart from money? Should farmers build and run their own co-operatives? If so who can manage it openly and honestly.

Instead of making sarcastic remarks, why not think it through and come up with your own ideas what where and how things can be changed.

Mate, point out where I accused the current PM or government of any specific blame. The country has been run by dolts for several hundred years, and they are all to blame equally for the poor water management (and I use the word management very generously), your friend Mr Thakisin included.

So I'll make flip remarks about a comical situation till the buffalo come home if I want to.

And I'm sure if I commissioned a multi million dollar analysis by world experts on how to manage Thailand's water problem and presented it with a pink ribbon to any Thai government (from now or in living memory), it would be consigned to the big round filing cabinet under the nearest desk.

Mr Thaksin is certainly not my friend nor is he a friend to the majority of Thai people.

If you want to keep making flip remarks then do so by all means. They don't contribute to the discussion but if it keeps you happy then go ahead.

Hi you have the proof for this statement as i think exactly the opposite- please provide your proof. He has many red shirt friends out there, mainly the farmers in thailand.

[billd766]

Mate, point out where I accused the current PM or government of any specific blame. The country has been run by dolts for several hundred years, and they are all to blame equally for the poor water management (and I use the word management very generously), your friend Mr Thakisin included.

So I'll make flip remarks about a comical situation till the buffalo come home if I want to.

And I'm sure if I commissioned a multi million dollar analysis by world experts on how to manage Thailand's water problem and presented it with a pink ribbon to any Thai government (from now or in living memory), it would be consigned to the big round filing cabinet under the nearest desk.

Mr Thaksin is certainly not my friend nor is he a friend to the majority of Thai people.

If you want to keep making flip remarks then do so by all means. They don't contribute to the discussion but if it keeps you happy then go ahead.

Hi you have the proof for this statement as i think exactly the opposite- please provide your proof. He has many red shirt friends out there, mainly the farmers in thailand.

No I don't have the proof but from what I recall quite a few million Thai people are not farmers, the farmers in the south of Thailand never were his friends either which left the Issan and central farmers and quite a few of them got disenchanted especially when they didn't get paid.

OTOH do you have any proof that he still has the majority of farmers as his friends.

It is difficult to prove either way.

[berybert]

Plastic carrots are very tasty and need no water at all.

Its ok PM, I'll let you have that one

[xylophone]

Somehow I don't think planting tomatoes and zucchini will be a great substitute for rice in the Thai diet.

Of course, it's too hard to admit that their water management systems aren't even on a par with 5th century Europe.

Of course it is equally hard for some people to accept and understand that the current government has inherited decades of inefficient water management from many previous governments, who over those decades did very little to improve the system.

The current government is damned by many for not fixing 20 or 30 years of problems in a couple of years, compounded of course by the prolonged El Nino drought which I am sure people want to blame them for also.

Whilst it is good for some people to blame the current government for all the ills and woes in much the same way that other posters blame Thaksin for all the corruption for the past 15 years or so.

Until ALL the Thai people are treated the same and work together for the benefit of ALL the Thai people, little will be achieved in the way of progress.

You can slag off the PM all you like but he is right in saying that many Thai farmers need to change their ways. Doing things the old way doesn't seem to work any more.

For example Vietnam produces far more rice than Thailand per rai so IMO Thailand should send farmers to Vietnam to see how they can produce more for less.

Changing crops for those which use less water is a good idea BUT simply saying so does not make it so.

The questions to ask are, what to change to, what is the market like, can farmers make a profit with a new crop, what help can the government give apart from money? Should farmers build and run their own co-operatives? If so who can manage it openly and honestly.

Instead of making sarcastic remarks, why not think it through and come up with your own ideas what where and how things can be changed.

A great deal depends on particular circumstances for individual farmers or families.

My partner's family had only ever done subsistence farming until recently, growing only a small amount of rice for family consumption, with some fruits & vegies similarly, a small sugar crop for market, and surviving - like so many in the village - on subsidies from occasional jobs & offspring in BKK, then, from 2012, from falang boyfriend namely me. As El Nino started to threaten Australia early last year with promise for worse to come for SEAsia, I suggested to them that they needed to think thru their alternatives, noting that they live beside a large artificial lake which stole half the farm when the dam was built some 20 or more years ago. What can you do with plenty of water? Well, you can produce two things in constant local demand with no reducing prices such as with rice or sugar or rubber: namely, ducks & fish.

The younger ones were receptive to this way of thinking, and their old dad was too. 18 months later, and with continuing but reducing subsidies from me, we can't keep up with the demand for our fat juicy ducks (Army arrives 2 or 3 times a week to buy 2 or 5 or more, neighbours every day too). And we put in a large fishpond reclaimed from the lake [expensive earthworks] to supplement the small ponds they already have: several thousand fish are now nearing marketable size.

The lesson from this is that people are not against learning new tricks, even people with low or zero levels of education. They just need a practical way forward and that is simply not available to most poor farmers everywhere in Thailand: first they need the concepts, then they need some investment monies and practical resources (and not just water), then growing self-confidence and willingness to try new things will flow. Which is where government & collective efforts can make all the difference. But it requires leadership & persistence. At the local level, that means village headpersons assisted & advised by proactive government agencies ... I don't think this has to be a pipe dream. It can be done, and there are probably better and more generally appiicable examples than mine already out there. The government's job is one of leadership but to expect governments to do everything is silly - it's not desirable even if they had the capacity. It's local leadership, courage and concepts that's required more than centralized command & control.

IMO, The two best quotes on here with regards to the subject in question.

The simple thing is that changing ingrained habits is not merely a case of "telling" someone to do something and expecting them to do it, because human nature simply isn't like that and to prove that point one only has to look at the model that works for "coaching" people in either sports or their job.

The coaching model suggests that the situation is explained, the benefits are laid out, people are shown how to do something and then they are allowed to do it themselves whilst being overseen by the coach. This model is repeated until those being overseen (coached) have a full understanding of what is needed and have practised how it can be done. That instils new habits, creates new skills and produces results.

Now overlay that on what the government could do in order to lead........... they could investigate other crops, not only from this country, but from around the world which survive on very little water. They could come back with a plan/process to be able to implement the introduction and growth of these crops and they would hold training/coaching sessions in the villages until the process was fully understood and taken over by the farmers themselves, this in conjunction with some local leaders who can always provide feedback to the Government teams and ask for more help if it is needed.

Yes, some financial assistance will be needed in the early days to assist the farmers to get started, and of course the government teams would need to understand how the new crops could be marketed, and to whom, and possibly use an advertising campaign to inform the general population of the benefits of these particular crops/how to cook them/how to store them etc. It is an educational program from start to finish and the sooner the government realises this, the sooner something will happen

The point is that just telling somebody to do something gets you absolutely nowhere, especially where old habits are ingrained, and this reminds me of the old saying from a coach of mine, "if you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always gotten".

[LannaGuy]

*sigh*

[cloghead]

HEMP! The PM really needs to get with the (Queen Sirikit) program...

http://www.qsbg.org/NewWeb2554/indexEng_Research_8.asp

Just imagine...hectare after hectare of 3-meter-tall sativa plants swaying majestically in the gentle breeze...

Overgrow Thailand!!!

[jerojero]

Just do it! You don't need relevant education, support, or incentives. Why farmers no understand I tell them good?

[billd766]

Just do it! You don't need relevant education, support, or incentives. Why farmers no understand I tell them good?

Do what?

With what?

To grow anything you need water which is in short supply at the moment. If you are a Thai farmer and not up to your eyeballs in debt it is possible to change your crops but of course you would need to know what crops will sell best to maximise what profit you may get.

You need to know how to grow your chosen crop and market it.

You also need not necessarily education but certainly some training and support or you will go deeper in debt and possibly lose your land and possibly everything else.

[gp2002]

"PM tells farmers to plant crops which consume less water"

Because more water is needed to waste during Songkran.

[kannot]

So general what crops should they plant?????

By me is the driest part of Thailand yet some local idiot farmers repeatedly grow rice, soon as one crops done the next goes in.........MOST people here grow pineapples, doesnt require watering, I grow pineapples.

They dont learn, wont learn ,and dont care

[Gonsalviz]

Send people to Israel to learn and study how an arid waterless and parched country for many years

has turned to be a country with surpluses water by using water recycling methods and building

desalinations plants... problems solved, for ever.....

Zionist. How dare you promote Israel in times like these. lol