CAN THEY DO THAT? Trump favors torture that's illegal

[up2u2]

DELETED

Does Trump's hate speech and invocation of war crimes resonate with like minded Right Wing nutters? Absolutely it does. They hear their internal hatreds, prejudices and valueless principles mirrored back to them and they get all excited that finally their disgusting views have merit. Unfortunately the real world, outside the GOP bubble, still shuns them and finds their views repugnant.

You gotta feel sorry for the poor sods.

Edited March 2, 2016 by seedy
derogatory

[kblaze]

I'm not a Trump fan, but his common sense solutions -that PC politicians reject - are why so much of the population are embracing him. That law against waterboarding should never have been passed. Torturing Islamic terrorists should be avoided until absolutely necessary, but it should be tolerated if warranted by circumstances. It is a lie that torture does not work. Bin Ladin would still be alive without it.

I had already asked about it - are there statistics anywhere on how effective torture is for extracting information ?

I don't think it possible to provide accurate statistics and there are plenty of people willing to lie to prevent their use. The CIA thought they worked and there have been numerous reports that Bin Ladin was caught because of them.

Wrong. Read below.

Killing of Osama bin Laden

THE CASE

No counterterrorism mission was more successful or higher profile than the secret raid that killed Osama bin Laden in 2011. Almost immediately, C.I.A. officials began telling Congress that its interrogation program led them to a secretive courier, Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti, who in turn led the C.I.A. to the doorstep of the world’s most-wanted terrorist.

COMMITTEE’S CONCLUSION

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/12/08/world/does-torture-work-the-cias-claims-and-what-the-committee-found.html?_r=0

Edited March 2, 2016 by CharlieH
"Fair use" item edited

[boomerangutang]

There isn't much difference between Right Wing GOP supporters and ISIS terrorists is there. Pretty much one and the same. They both seem to have the same shameful values and lack of respect for peoples most basic of human rights.

Does Trump's hate speech and invocation of war crimes resonate with like minded Right Wing nutters? Absolutely it does. They hear their internal hatreds, prejudices and valueless principles mirrored back to them and they get all excited that finally their disgusting views have merit. Unfortunately the real world, outside the GOP bubble, still shuns them and finds their views repugnant.

You gotta feel sorry for the poor sods.

I wouldn't take it that far. When Trump talks about 'Make America Great Again' it's about a time when he was younger. First off, when a person is younger, things are generally rosier. It's the time for first kiss, first rock concert, early dating, great music, and so on. Just one proof of many: Talk to any old-timer and ask him what his favorite music is: 100% of the time he will refer to some earlier songs / earlier styles. That's human nature. All through American history, at every stage, there have been great things happened and ugly things happened. I like to joke about Trump's 'Make America Great....' and would ask him, What stage would you like to revert America to? When Mcarthy was ruining peoples' live by calling them Commies? When America was replacing leaders of small countries? When America was illegally fighting wars? I'm sure Trump would respond with something like, "Oh no, America used to have strong industries" (everything for Trump relates to big money), or "American used to be respected and feared worldwide." WWII, and all that.

Message to Trump: Americans have always been a mixed bag of all sorts of people, all sorts of businesses. If you want to bring out the best of Americans, you should campaign for Hillary or Bernie. Those are candidates of inclusion, not like Republicans who carry messages of divisiveness, and building walls.

The best thing about America is its National Parks. The best part of America is not its people or its industries, but its natural environments. Trump probably never saw a forest he didn't want to clearcut. Wow, look at all those big trees. I could buy that forest for a pittance, and then cut and mill those trees and make another billion dollars! Ha ha ha, I'm so clever!

[up2u2]

Boomer you just have to read some of the comments on the topic 'Torturing people' as if there should be a discussion. DELETED .Absolutely no doubt in my mind. If you have no moral compass and can find bogus reasons to underpin inhumanity to man there is no end point. Just uneducated, ill informed savages.

Trump personifies the worst side of our nature and there are a very small minority that identify with evil deeds.

As you say people are many and varied and what will be Trumps undoing is those that adulate his hatreds are a very small minority. The vast majority of Americans are good people with strong ethical values and will utterly reject Trumps lunacy. Polling shows that once you put Trump against the entire electorate he quickly becomes unelectable.

Edited March 2, 2016 by seedy
derogatory

[manarak]

I'm not a Trump fan, but his common sense solutions -that PC politicians reject - are why so much of the population are embracing him. That law against waterboarding should never have been passed. Torturing Islamic terrorists should be avoided until absolutely necessary, but it should be tolerated if warranted by circumstances. It is a lie that torture does not work. Bin Ladin would still be alive without it.

I had already asked about it - are there statistics anywhere on how effective torture is for extracting information ?

I don't think it possible to provide accurate statistics and there are plenty of people willing to lie to prevent their use. The CIA thought they worked and there have been numerous reports that Bin Ladin was caught because of them.

Wrong. Read below.

Killing of Osama bin Laden

THE CASE

No counterterrorism mission was more successful or higher profile than the secret raid that killed Osama bin Laden in 2011. Almost immediately, C.I.A. officials began telling Congress that its interrogation program led them to a secretive courier, Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti, who in turn led the C.I.A. to the doorstep of the world’s most-wanted terrorist.

COMMITTEE’S CONCLUSION

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/12/08/world/does-torture-work-the-cias-claims-and-what-the-committee-found.html?_r=0

that's not statistics, that's one case.

[kblaze]

that's not statistics, that's one case.

Statistics? I was responding the statement that torture helped in the Bin Ladin case.

and, FYI there's multiple cases referenced in that article.

[manarak]

that's not statistics, that's one case.

Statistics? I was responding the statement that torture helped in the Bin Ladin case.

and, FYI there's multiple cases referenced in that article.

recent cases are a useless discussion because the data is not reliable / is secret / has been manipulated.

[Ulysses G.]

that's not statistics, that's one case.

Statistics? I was responding the statement that torture helped in the Bin Ladin case.

and, FYI there's multiple cases referenced in that article.

recent cases are a useless discussion because the data is not reliable / is secret / has been manipulated.

Leon Panetta admitted that Bin Ladin was caught because of enhanced interrogation and he should know.

"Enhanced interrogation techniques" were used to extract information that led to the mission's success, Panetta said during an interview with anchor Brian Williams. Those techniques included waterboarding, he acknowledged.

http://www.today.com/id/42880435/ns/today-today_news/t/cia-chief-waterboarding-aided-bin-laden-raid/#.Vta824-cGxQ

Edited March 2, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[manarak]

Leon Panetta admitted that Bin Ladin was caught because of enhanced interrogation and he should know.

he may very well have been instructed to say that so as to not compromise another source than the torturee - this is the woirld of intelligence and there is no way to know anything for sure

Edited March 2, 2016 by manarak

[kblaze]

Leon Panetta admitted that Bin Ladin was caught because of enhanced interrogation and he should know.

"Enhanced interrogation techniques" were used to extract information that led to the mission's success, Panetta said during an interview with anchor Brian Williams. Those techniques included waterboarding, he acknowledged.

http://www.today.com/id/42880435/ns/today-today_news/t/cia-chief-waterboarding-aided-bin-laden-raid/#.Vta824-cGxQ

Yes...of course he did...he was Director of the CIA. You are repeating what was already in my post - the CIA said it worked. But then when the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence actually investigated the cases....they found it was NOT as presented by the CIA.

Again, have a look at the link

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/12/08/world/does-torture-work-the-cias-claims-and-what-the-committee-found.html?_r=0

[kblaze]

Go ahead and display your naivety by believing that the CIA Director would never bend the truth to protect the very agency he has run.....

as for me...I'll believe the committee which actually looked into the details.

[seedy]

Two Posts Edited. Comparing a Political party to ISIS Terrorists is going beyond the Pale.

[Grouse]

why are all these things dragged out into the open?

let the CIA and DHS do their work in secret using any effective methods sanctioned by hierarchy.

Exactly right. Torture is an important weapon against Islamic terrorism and other violent criminals, but it should be hush hush.

I don't care about your inhumanity, you're an American after all.

However, it's the idiocy I can't stand

Don't you think that torture is one of the best recruiting sergeants? It is

Did we torture prisoners during the second world war. No. We were way smarter than that...

No, I'm not going to tell you.

I doubt Grant would have tortured people either

Sometimes, brute force is inadequate (how many examples do you want) you need to be more intelligent than that......

[manarak]

why are all these things dragged out into the open?

let the CIA and DHS do their work in secret using any effective methods sanctioned by hierarchy.

Exactly right. Torture is an important weapon against Islamic terrorism and other violent criminals, but it should be hush hush.

I don't care about your inhumanity, you're an American after all.

However, it's the idiocy I can't stand

Don't you think that torture is one of the best recruiting sergeants? It is

Did we torture prisoners during the second world war. No. We were way smarter than that...

No, I'm not going to tell you.

I doubt Grant would have tortured people either

Sometimes, brute force is inadequate (how many examples do you want) you need to be more intelligent than that......

yes, torture was used by allies and by the US during WW2:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_war_crimes_during_World_War_II

please stop plonking.

[willyumiii]

Trump hasn't a clue as to what the President of the United States has the authority to do, or what the office entails.

He is constantly promsing to do things no president can do.

He has no experience in government or any idea of how it functions.

He is only a showman, playing to the huge crowd that knows as little as he does...

and they love the way he makes them feel like the know something....

but they don't and neither does he.

Good luck America!

[Ulysses G.]

yes, torture was used by allies and by the US during WW2:

https://en.wikipedia...ng_World_War_II

Of course and in pretty much every other war as well. It would be VERY ignorant to claim otherwise.

[Boon Mee]

yes, torture was used by allies and by the US during WW2:

https://en.wikipedia...ng_World_War_II

Of course and in pretty much every other war as well. It would be VERY ignorant to claim otherwise.

SJW's are apt to deny the benifits of torture which can be defined in many forms.

Blasting Madonna's music at 110db would definitely constitute extreem torture!