Out in the cold: Refugees get no good news at Greek border

[webfact]

Out in the cold: Refugees get no good news at Greek border
By COSTAS KANTOURIS and GEORGE JAHN

IDOMENI, Greece (AP) — Hassan Rasheed's papers have been cleared but the Iraqi refugee has spent days freezing in a tent with no tarp on the ground and flaps that don't close, one of 10,000 migrants stuck at a muddy camp on the border of Greece and Macedonia.

They're hoping for a breakthrough in Europe's troubled negotiations on how to handle the deepening crisis. But there was little sign of that Tuesday.

Austria's chancellor insisted he would not to let his country become a "waiting room for Germany," while authorities from four ex-Yugoslav countries on the migrant route vowed closer cooperation to keep people out.

"I've been at Idomeni for 10 days and it's the fourth day I've been waiting to cross over," the 27-year-old Rasheed said. "Conditions are very bad. There are many ill children who are coughing, and we spent the night in this tent under heavy rain."

The heavily policed border, marked by a twin fence and coils of razor wire, remained closed a day after migrants attempted to push through the barriers and were forced back by Macedonian riot police using tear gas and stun grenades. Before that, sporadic closures since Feb. 19 had slowed the number allowed through to just dozens a day.

Overnight, rain soaked many families, who hung up clothing to dry Tuesday on the border fence.

More exhausted refugee families continued to reach the burgeoning tent city in this Greek border town on foot or by taxi. Many walked up to 30 kilometers (18 miles) along Greece's northern highways.

Ahmed Majid, a 26-year-old Iraqi, was traveling with his wife and two young children.

"We have been walking for three kilometers. Police stopped our taxi on the highway, which is why we are going through the fields," he said.

About 2,000 migrants are still reaching Greek islands from nearby Turkey every day, despite the recent deployment of NATO ships in the east Aegean Sea.

European Council President Donald Tusk was in Austria on Tuesday to try to persuade Chancellor Werner Faymann to change his mind about the country's decision to accept no more than 80 asylum requests a day at Austria's southern frontier with Slovenia.

But Faymann said Austria was determined not to accept the "policy of waving through" migrants to the rest of the EU.

"Austria is not a waiting room for Germany," he said. "This disorganized chaos must end. ... It's important to have clarity on the EU's external borders. (Otherwise) Austrians have to be active on their borders."

Meanwhile, Austria's interior minister, Johanna Mikl-Leitner, announced plans by her government to launch an advertising campaign in Afghanistan — including billboards, TV ads and public bus banners — to discourage Afghans from trying to reach Europe.

Tusk added a stop in Ankara to his schedule, ahead of next week's summit of leaders from the EU and Turkey on migration.

To prepare for the summit, German Chancellor Angela Merkel was to meet French President Francois Hollande in Paris on Friday, and she remained vocally opposed to the Austrian border closure.

"We must stand with Greece," a spokesman quoted the chancellor as saying on a Twitter post. "I am therefore in constant contact with (Greek Prime Minister Alexis) Tsipras."

In Athens, the government said it has requested 480 million euros ($520 million) in aid for the refugee crisis from the EU, under an emergency plan to cope with as many as 100,000 stranded refugees — roughly three times the number now stuck inside Greece.

Athens is pressing EU countries to honor pledges to accept asylum seekers directly and for Turkey to help speed up deportations. The government said 69 people from North Africa considered ineligible for asylum were deported to Turkey, with another 230 people due to be sent back by Wednesday.

The impasse in Greece drew strong criticism from the United Nations refugee agency, which warned that Europe "is on the cusp of a largely self-induced humanitarian crisis."

A UNHCR statement said inconsistent policies on the continent, which faces its worst immigration crisis since the end of World War II, "are causing unnecessary suffering and risk being at variance with EU and international law standards."

New York-based Human Rights Watch blamed "discriminatory border closures" and the cap imposed by Austria for the crisis.

"Trapping asylum seekers in Greece is an unconscionable and short-sighted non-solution that is causing suffering and violence," said the right's group's Greece specialist, Eva Cosse.

"It demonstrates once again the EU's utter failure to respond collectively and compassionately to refugee flows."
___

Jahn reported from Vienna. Associated Press writers Konstantin Testorides in Skopje, Macedonia; Jovana Gec in Belgrade, Serbia and Derek Gatopoulos, Nicholas Paphitis, and Elena Becatoros in Athens contributed to this report.


-- (c) Associated Press 2016-03-02

[wabothai]

A regular day in Europe.

[Transporter]

They are not all peaceful people, send them all back with a message to the rest and stop the boats from leaving their shores for their own safety.

[hdkane]

The real question is...why don't Islamic countries open their borders to these deserving people?

[i claudius]

I feel really bad that they are freezing,they must turn around straight away and go back to a nice warm country

[sotsira]

The real question is...why don't Islamic countries open their borders to these deserving people?

They do, Turkey is an islamic country, but the refugees want to follow the gold trail in

to Europe and therefore leave Turkey as soon as they can afford to and head for Greece.

[landslide]

The real question is...why don't Islamic countries open their borders to these deserving people?

Islamic countries do not have the social benefits offered by many European countries. A great many of the migrants have been told that they would be given a house, medical care and monthly stipend once they arrive in a European country.

[arjunadawn]

"Out in the cold..." BS! The confirmed temperature is just now 65 degrees, ten degrees colder then Damascus, and 100% more than freezing temperature. In fact, "days freezing in a tent..." is hyperbole at best, deceit most likely. It has not been freezing in Idomeni in any recent stretch of time. Words have meaning. When meaning is compromised its called deceit.

Why nitpick? Because truth matters and the media now peddles an endless stream of emotional news feeds designed to socially manipulate rather than inform. The media is in gross collusion with the subversion of Europe by leaders working tirelessly and contrary to the vast voice of the EU. Under the cover of "for the children" and "out in the cold" the media conspire to redirect readers into not applying the same standards to these people as their readers apply to themselves and their neighbors- accountability for choices, culpability, or not embracing victimization to strong-arm/leverage gain. All these people are paraded through the media in a nonstop daily barrage of appeals to emotion and assignment of standards we would not impose on ourselves, our neighbors, our coworkers or others. Basically, the first interaction with the vast majority of these "arrivals" begins with a deceit. The first impressions of these vast hoards of people initially requires we collectively hold them all to a standard lower than we hold ourselves and each other.

[JHolmesJr]

I feel really bad that they are freezing,they must turn around straight away and go back to a nice warm country

Hard when they were promised an apartment with central heating, pocket money and the chance to appear sobbing on cnn.

[hdkane]

The real question is...why don't Islamic countries open their borders to these deserving people?

Islamic countries do not have the social benefits offered by many European countries. A great many of the migrants have been told that they would be given a house, medical care and monthly stipend once they arrive in a European country.

Really? Is this true? It seems almost like propaganda...too good to be true...I don't know what real benefits are offered by many of the EU members...but if that's true...I might be leaving Thailand soon...bound for the shores of Europe...

Many Mexicans who try to enter the USA illegally are under the impression that they will be automatically given a stipend and home too...all rumors of course, started by the coyotes who are paid to smuggle humans across the border...those arriving had a sad and harsh awakening...as they lost their money to the coyotes and were deported back to Mexico...

[arjunadawn]

The real question is...why don't Islamic countries open their borders to these deserving people?

Islamic countries do not have the social benefits offered by many European countries. A great many of the migrants have been told that they would be given a house, medical care and monthly stipend once they arrive in a European country.

Really? Is this true? It seems almost like propaganda...too good to be true...I don't know what real benefits are offered by many of the EU members...but if that's true...I might be leaving Thailand soon...bound for the shores of Europe...

Many Mexicans who try to enter the USA illegally are under the impression that they will be automatically given a stipend and home too...all rumors of course, started by the coyotes who are paid to smuggle humans across the border...those arriving had a sad and harsh awakening...as they lost their money to the coyotes and were deported back to Mexico...

Yes, really, it is true. A single person can cross the rio grande tomorrow and apply for food stamps and they will be granted. This person can apply for drivers license, HUD housing, welfare, etc., and it will be given. This varies little with Sweden, Germany, and other now hemorrhaging countries. One has to suspend years of news updates to reach a different conclusion; these facts are wholly what the unfair issue of illegal immigration is all about- those who have no investment in the social contract strong-arming benefits at "go" and the statistically evident fact of recent migrants, remain on these benefits always- see EU and US data on these points everywhere on the net.

The entire issue of EU soliciting the crisis by extending its generous handouts underlies most of the middle of the road indictments against progressive governments contributing to this problem. People like me take a different charge, alleging willful designs to reshape the EU. But the benefits? The benefits are the candy the "Merkel" in the car entices the refugees with to come over, and go for a ride.

[simple1]

"Out in the cold..." BS! The confirmed temperature is just now 65 degrees, ten degrees colder then Damascus, and 100% more than freezing temperature. In fact, "days freezing in a tent..." is hyperbole at best, deceit most likely. It has not been freezing in Idomeni in any recent stretch of time. Words have meaning. When meaning is compromised its called deceit.

As a matter of detail your claim is incorrect. Currently 15 day forecast for night time temperatures at Idomeni, is between 1C - 9C degrees. There were below freezing night time temperatures on a number of days in December. As well a number of people are sleeping in the open at night.

http://m.accuweather.com/en/gr/idomeni/184737/extended-weather-forecast/184737

You personally do not concede the winter night time temperatures are 'freezing', so what!

Edited March 3, 2016 by simple1

[Lukecan]

This topic proves how hypocrite and fascist western people are. Turkey is hosting 3m refugees already, and the west cant even handle measly 1 million. Does Turkey have the resources EU has? No, not even close.

Yet these hypocrites go to every single non western country and accuse them of violating human rights, like Thailand,Turkey,Vietnam, etc.

I respect you for not wanting immigrants or refugees in your country, thats perfectly fine, but you shouldnt be an hypocrite and meddle with the internal affairs of other countries. Your leaders were the ones that destabilized libya,Syria,Egypt. You are reaping the fruits now. The people that got displaced because of your messed up foreign policy have nowhere to go now, thats why they are looking for a stable country to settle in.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Lukecan

[wabothai]

The real question is...why don't Islamic countries open their borders to these deserving people?

Islamic countries do not have the social benefits offered by many European countries. A great many of the migrants have been told that they would be given a house, medical care and monthly stipend once they arrive in a European country.

Another real question is : told by whom...

[prestburypark]

This topic proves how hypocrite and fascist western people are. Turkey is hosting 3m refugees already, and the west cant even handle measly 1 million. Does Turkey have the resources EU has? No, not even close.

Yet these hypocrites go to every single non western country and accuse them of violating human rights, like Thailand,Turkey,Vietnam, etc.

I respect you for not wanting immigrants or refugees in your country, thats perfectly fine, but you shouldnt be an hypocrite and meddle with the internal affairs of other countries. Your leaders were the ones that destabilized libya,Syria,Egypt. You are reaping the fruits now. The people that got displaced because of your messed up foreign policy have nowhere to go now, thats why they are looking for a stable country to settle in.

Oh great, its all the fault of the bad western folks. The centuries old Shia=Sunni barbarities, Islamic expansionism and refusal to accept that the culture of Islam is not enlightened but stone age and ignorant.

Muslims started out with the massacres of Mahommed against everyone who was not servile to him and has not stopped its murderous rampage ever since..way before the Great satans of the US and the British Empire even existed.

So get the f££££ over your misplaced sense of grievance and entitlement and take some darned responsibility that the screwed up cultures slaughtering each other are just a continuation of 1400 years of local tribal disputes and hatreds and stay the hell in your messed up countries until you grow up and get educated.

The very fact that Islamic countries are not accepting their brothers in Islam is indictment enough. We have seen it all before and do not forget. You are not welcome in Europe, we owe you absolutely nothing, your cultures have contributed nothing useful, enlightened, artistic or intellectual to the world, rather just gruesome murder and torture and hate.

[Pimay1]

This topic proves how hypocrite and fascist western people are. Turkey is hosting 3m refugees already, and the west cant even handle measly 1 million. Does Turkey have the resources EU has? No, not even close.

Yet these hypocrites go to every single non western country and accuse them of violating human rights, like Thailand,Turkey,Vietnam, etc.

I respect you for not wanting immigrants or refugees in your country, thats perfectly fine, but you shouldnt be an hypocrite and meddle with the internal affairs of other countries. Your leaders were the ones that destabilized libya,Syria,Egypt. You are reaping the fruits now. The people that got displaced because of your messed up foreign policy have nowhere to go now, thats why they are looking for a stable country to settle in.

Oh great, its all the fault of the bad western folks. The centuries old Shia=Sunni barbarities, Islamic expansionism and refusal to accept that the culture of Islam is not enlightened but stone age and ignorant.

Muslims started out with the massacres of Mahommed against everyone who was not servile to him and has not stopped its murderous rampage ever since..way before the Great satans of the US and the British Empire even existed.

So get the f££££ over your misplaced sense of grievance and entitlement and take some darned responsibility that the screwed up cultures slaughtering each other are just a continuation of 1400 years of local tribal disputes and hatreds and stay the hell in your messed up countries until you grow up and get educated.

The very fact that Islamic countries are not accepting their brothers in Islam is indictment enough. We have seen it all before and do not forget. You are not welcome in Europe, we owe you absolutely nothing, your cultures have contributed nothing useful, enlightened, artistic or intellectual to the world, rather just gruesome murder and torture and hate.

Excellent post. Absolutely spot on.

[manarak]

This topic proves how hypocrite and fascist western people are. Turkey is hosting 3m refugees already, and the west cant even handle measly 1 million. Does Turkey have the resources EU has? No, not even close.

Yet these hypocrites go to every single non western country and accuse them of violating human rights, like Thailand,Turkey,Vietnam, etc.

I respect you for not wanting immigrants or refugees in your country, thats perfectly fine, but you shouldnt be an hypocrite and meddle with the internal affairs of other countries. Your leaders were the ones that destabilized libya,Syria,Egypt. You are reaping the fruits now. The people that got displaced because of your messed up foreign policy have nowhere to go now, thats why they are looking for a stable country to settle in.

The one little detail that disturbs everything is that in the EU, it is illegal to treat refugees the same way they are treated in Turkey.

About destabilizing Iraq and Syria, you are totally right.

But the politicians did it, and the people have to pay.

Same old same old

[Lukecan]

This topic proves how hypocrite and fascist western people are. Turkey is hosting 3m refugees already, and the west cant even handle measly 1 million. Does Turkey have the resources EU has? No, not even close.

Yet these hypocrites go to every single non western country and accuse them of violating human rights, like Thailand,Turkey,Vietnam, etc.

I respect you for not wanting immigrants or refugees in your country, thats perfectly fine, but you shouldnt be an hypocrite and meddle with the internal affairs of other countries. Your leaders were the ones that destabilized libya,Syria,Egypt. You are reaping the fruits now. The people that got displaced because of your messed up foreign policy have nowhere to go now, thats why they are looking for a stable country to settle in.

The one little detail that disturbs everything is that in the EU, it is illegal to treat refugees the same way they are treated in Turkey.

About destabilizing Iraq and Syria, you are totally right.

But the politicians did it, and the people have to pay.

Same old same old

Turkey hosts some of the best refugee camps in the planet, this was confirmed by UN Refugee head Alex gutierrez.

[Lukecan]

This topic proves how hypocrite and fascist western people are. Turkey is hosting 3m refugees already, and the west cant even handle measly 1 million. Does Turkey have the resources EU has? No, not even close.

Yet these hypocrites go to every single non western country and accuse them of violating human rights, like Thailand,Turkey,Vietnam, etc.

I respect you for not wanting immigrants or refugees in your country, thats perfectly fine, but you shouldnt be an hypocrite and meddle with the internal affairs of other countries. Your leaders were the ones that destabilized libya,Syria,Egypt. You are reaping the fruits now. The people that got displaced because of your messed up foreign policy have nowhere to go now, thats why they are looking for a stable country to settle in.

Oh great, its all the fault of the bad western folks. The centuries old Shia=Sunni barbarities, Islamic expansionism and refusal to accept that the culture of Islam is not enlightened but stone age and ignorant.

Muslims started out with the massacres of Mahommed against everyone who was not servile to him and has not stopped its murderous rampage ever since..way before the Great satans of the US and the British Empire even existed.

So get the f££££ over your misplaced sense of grievance and entitlement and take some darned responsibility that the screwed up cultures slaughtering each other are just a continuation of 1400 years of local tribal disputes and hatreds and stay the hell in your messed up countries until you grow up and get educated.

The very fact that Islamic countries are not accepting their brothers in Islam is indictment enough. We have seen it all before and do not forget. You are not welcome in Europe, we owe you absolutely nothing, your cultures have contributed nothing useful, enlightened, artistic or intellectual to the world, rather just gruesome murder and torture and hate.

I have no intention of ever relocating to Europe even though I am well off and hold a British passport. I love my british passport because it allows me to travel freely around the world and get treated like a first class citizen.

I really have no clue why those muslims are flocking to EU, It is a socialist shethole, they will realize sooner that they made a huge mistake.

Regarding your say about muslims contributing nothing to Europe, its utter BS. houses that were built prior to 1960 in Europe did not even have private bathrooms, they used public toilets. Europeans did not have a proper sense of hygeine. I witnessed this first hand in Denmark. when the turks arrived to Denmark in the 60s, they wanted homes with private bathrooms, after that it became the norm in denmark.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Lukecan

[manarak]

This topic proves how hypocrite and fascist western people are. Turkey is hosting 3m refugees already, and the west cant even handle measly 1 million. Does Turkey have the resources EU has? No, not even close.

Yet these hypocrites go to every single non western country and accuse them of violating human rights, like Thailand,Turkey,Vietnam, etc.

I respect you for not wanting immigrants or refugees in your country, thats perfectly fine, but you shouldnt be an hypocrite and meddle with the internal affairs of other countries. Your leaders were the ones that destabilized libya,Syria,Egypt. You are reaping the fruits now. The people that got displaced because of your messed up foreign policy have nowhere to go now, thats why they are looking for a stable country to settle in.

The one little detail that disturbs everything is that in the EU, it is illegal to treat refugees the same way they are treated in Turkey.

About destabilizing Iraq and Syria, you are totally right.

But the politicians did it, and the people have to pay.

Same old same old

Turkey hosts some of the best refugee camps in the planet, this was confirmed by UN Refugee head Alex gutierrez.

there are no official camps in the EU.

this also got me thinking:

http://time.com/4063674/zaatari-camps-empty-syria/

"Refugee Camps Empty as Syrians Head for Europe"

Edited March 3, 2016 by manarak

[simple1]

This topic proves how hypocrite and fascist western people are. Turkey is hosting 3m refugees already, and the west cant even handle measly 1 million. Does Turkey have the resources EU has? No, not even close.

Yet these hypocrites go to every single non western country and accuse them of violating human rights, like Thailand,Turkey,Vietnam, etc.

I respect you for not wanting immigrants or refugees in your country, thats perfectly fine, but you shouldnt be an hypocrite and meddle with the internal affairs of other countries. Your leaders were the ones that destabilized libya,Syria,Egypt. You are reaping the fruits now. The people that got displaced because of your messed up foreign policy have nowhere to go now, thats why they are looking for a stable country to settle in.

The one little detail that disturbs everything is that in the EU, it is illegal to treat refugees the same way they are treated in Turkey.

About destabilizing Iraq and Syria, you are totally right.

But the politicians did it, and the people have to pay.

Same old same old

Turkey hosts some of the best refugee camps in the planet, this was confirmed by UN Refugee head Alex gutierrez.

there are no official camps in the EU.

this also got me thinking:

http://time.com/4063674/zaatari-camps-empty-syria/

"Refugee Camps Empty as Syrians Head for Europe"

It's been claimed by UNHCR on a number of occasions that as the war in Syria drags on refugee saving start to run out in order to supplement the basic support they get in the camps, although the majority are forced to obtain rental accommodation, no future, little education for the children etc, accordingly many give up & try to enter the EU. To complicate matters UNHCR is saying some donor countries have not complied to the pledges made so often refugees seeking shelter / support are insufficiently funded / resourced.

Overall the refugee numbers in countries bordering Syria are increasing. In the case of Jordan , some 630,000 Syrians have registered with the UNHCR since 2011, though Amman says the actual number of Syrian refugees in Jordan is around 1.4 million.

[billd766]

This topic proves how hypocrite and fascist western people are. Turkey is hosting 3m refugees already, and the west cant even handle measly 1 million. Does Turkey have the resources EU has? No, not even close.

Yet these hypocrites go to every single non western country and accuse them of violating human rights, like Thailand,Turkey,Vietnam, etc.

I respect you for not wanting immigrants or refugees in your country, thats perfectly fine, but you shouldnt be an hypocrite and meddle with the internal affairs of other countries. Your leaders were the ones that destabilized libya,Syria,Egypt. You are reaping the fruits now. The people that got displaced because of your messed up foreign policy have nowhere to go now, thats why they are looking for a stable country to settle in.

Oh great, its all the fault of the bad western folks. The centuries old Shia=Sunni barbarities, Islamic expansionism and refusal to accept that the culture of Islam is not enlightened but stone age and ignorant.

Muslims started out with the massacres of Mahommed against everyone who was not servile to him and has not stopped its murderous rampage ever since..way before the Great satans of the US and the British Empire even existed.

So get the f££££ over your misplaced sense of grievance and entitlement and take some darned responsibility that the screwed up cultures slaughtering each other are just a continuation of 1400 years of local tribal disputes and hatreds and stay the hell in your messed up countries until you grow up and get educated.

The very fact that Islamic countries are not accepting their brothers in Islam is indictment enough. We have seen it all before and do not forget. You are not welcome in Europe, we owe you absolutely nothing, your cultures have contributed nothing useful, enlightened, artistic or intellectual to the world, rather just gruesome murder and torture and hate.

I have no intention of ever relocating to Europe even though I am well off and hold a British passport. I love my british passport because it allows me to travel freely around the world and get treated like a first class citizen.

I really have no clue why those muslims are flocking to EU, It is a socialist shethole, they will realize sooner that they made a huge mistake.

Regarding your say about muslims contributing nothing to Europe, its utter BS. houses that were built prior to 1960 in Europe did not even have private bathrooms, they used public toilets. Europeans did not have a proper sense of hygeine. I witnessed this first hand in Denmark. when the turks arrived to Denmark in the 60s, they wanted homes with private bathrooms, after that it became the norm in denmark.

If I can accept what you have said as the truth, then why did the modern enlightened arab people want to go and live in a backward civilisation like Denmark or Europe?

How strange. The bungalow that I grew up in in England was built around the mid 1930s and that had an inside bathroom and toilet. Another strange Muslim habit used to be that you used your right hand for eating and taking food from a communal bowl and your left hand for wiping your arse after you had a crap.

Perhaps that quaint old tradition has died out in countries of the middle where, according to you every house had an inside toilet and private bathrooms and has done for decades.

[donnybay]

Islam is making a much more successful job of invading Europe than Hitler ever did.

[prestburypark]

This topic proves how hypocrite and fascist western people are. Turkey is hosting 3m refugees already, and the west cant even handle measly 1 million. Does Turkey have the resources EU has? No, not even close.

Yet these hypocrites go to every single non western country and accuse them of violating human rights, like Thailand,Turkey,Vietnam, etc.

I respect you for not wanting immigrants or refugees in your country, thats perfectly fine, but you shouldnt be an hypocrite and meddle with the internal affairs of other countries. Your leaders were the ones that destabilized libya,Syria,Egypt. You are reaping the fruits now. The people that got displaced because of your messed up foreign policy have nowhere to go now, thats why they are looking for a stable country to settle in.

Oh great, its all the fault of the bad western folks. The centuries old Shia=Sunni barbarities, Islamic expansionism and refusal to accept that the culture of Islam is not enlightened but stone age and ignorant.

Muslims started out with the massacres of Mahommed against everyone who was not servile to him and has not stopped its murderous rampage ever since..way before the Great satans of the US and the British Empire even existed.

So get the f££££ over your misplaced sense of grievance and entitlement and take some darned responsibility that the screwed up cultures slaughtering each other are just a continuation of 1400 years of local tribal disputes and hatreds and stay the hell in your messed up countries until you grow up and get educated.

The very fact that Islamic countries are not accepting their brothers in Islam is indictment enough. We have seen it all before and do not forget. You are not welcome in Europe, we owe you absolutely nothing, your cultures have contributed nothing useful, enlightened, artistic or intellectual to the world, rather just gruesome murder and torture and hate.

I have no intention of ever relocating to Europe even though I am well off and hold a British passport. I love my british passport because it allows me to travel freely around the world and get treated like a first class citizen.

I really have no clue why those muslims are flocking to EU, It is a socialist shethole, they will realize sooner that they made a huge mistake.

Regarding your say about muslims contributing nothing to Europe, its utter BS. houses that were built prior to 1960 in Europe did not even have private bathrooms, they used public toilets. Europeans did not have a proper sense of hygeine. I witnessed this first hand in Denmark. when the turks arrived to Denmark in the 60s, they wanted homes with private bathrooms, after that it became the norm in denmark.

Ignorance of the highest order...the Muslims brought bathrooms and toilets to the west? We invented plumbing, flushing toilets, showers, saunas a wee

(hundredf years) bit before the 60's, we did not need Turks turning up and saying: "hey guys, ever thought of having your own toilets and bathrooms? Wouldn't that be novel?"

And even if Denmark was replacing old housing stock from pre war times, when people were poorer..what has that got to do with contributions to culture and enlightenment?

The fact is Europe gave some Turkish people a chance to better their lives, what we get back is Allih Akbar we want Sharia to be visited upon you. Well we aint having it pal.

[arjunadawn]

"Out in the cold..." BS! The confirmed temperature is just now 65 degrees, ten degrees colder then Damascus, and 100% more than freezing temperature. In fact, "days freezing in a tent..." is hyperbole at best, deceit most likely. It has not been freezing in Idomeni in any recent stretch of time. Words have meaning. When meaning is compromised its called deceit.

As a matter of detail your claim is incorrect. Currently 15 day forecast for night time temperatures at Idomeni, is between 1C - 9C degrees. There were below freezing night time temperatures on a number of days in December. As well a number of people are sleeping in the open at night.

http://m.accuweather.com/en/gr/idomeni/184737/extended-weather-forecast/184737

You personally do not concede the winter night time temperatures are 'freezing', so what!

This OP hardly references December. That one has to race back months to support a manipulative narrative is as suggestive as the OP is dishonest. The OP is pretty clear by the choice in persons it reflects that its pertaining to current time- now! And current time does not support a freezing narrative. In any event, they are there by choice. If my personally noting something or not is a "so what" you injure your own post by replying. How about not replying next time?

This forum is not remotely interested in you personalizing this OP into an exchange with me. What I "personally do" is irrelevant.

[osiboy]

Think you'll find the romans invented sanitation and a Brit named John Crapper invented the first flushing toilet,hence "the john" and "havin a crap" soon India and the muslim world are also expected to have a use for toilets .

[osiboy]

Think you'll find the romans invented sanitation and a Brit named John Crapper invented the first flushing toilet,hence "the john" and "havin a crap" soon India and the muslim world are also expected to have a use for toilets .

[osiboy]

Think you'll find the romans invented sanitation and a Brit named John Crapper invented the first flushing toilet,hence "the john" and "havin a crap" soon India and the muslim world are also expected to have a use for toilets .

[osiboy]

Think you'll find the romans invented sanitation and a Brit named John Crapper invented the first flushing toilet,hence "the john" and "havin a crap" soon India and the muslim world are also expected to have a use for toilets .