Bus crash kills three and injures 40 in Singburi

[khomlong1]

let me guess the Anti-collision software failed (his brain)

No. The brakes failed.

[smartpant]

good thing is driver won't kill more people.

rip

[Usual Suspect]

It's looking like the driver fell asleep before this tragic bus-smash (note I'm not using the word 'accident')..but so,so many times the driver does in fact blame the condition of the vehicle..(what brakes..??)

So then..whose maintaining these buses?

Worse still, who is responsible for testing these vehicles each year?..AND passing them..?

This is Thailand, a vehicle tester at each registered testing-station will no doubt be taking the same amount of envelopes as most other civil-servants here...hence no reduction in smoke-belching trucks with un-silenced exhausts, buses & trucks with each window plastered with stickers, & of course buses that annually get passed despite them having major faults..it's the state of the nation it seems, & regular loss of human lives

is accepted... rather than questioned & corrected.

[Paul Kernell]

So sad...But i can smell a crackdown on busdrivers coming.

Enforced for a whole day, if that.

That's always the problem, there is zero enforcement here unless it's about scooter helmets. Quick cash is the name of the game in the land of road carnage.

Trying to get the kids at my last school too wear crash helmets was a joke! 1/ Blessed with a 5mm cane (bamboo) on the head on arrival when riding a motorbike. Your hurting the students! if they were wearing a helmet it wouldn't hurt and it it hurt a lot less than a concrete road....... NO WAY.... 2/ Fine them 20 baht for not wearing a helmet (dinner money) It's the law and your King said so. After 5 fines you give them a hemet, paid for by the fines and if they still forget they are stupid and hungry! learn too think! YEA! A helmet costs 60 Baht in bulk, so you can make a bit of tea money also! YEA! No way can we have hungry kids at school! Let the carnage continue. Prey to Buddha and nothing bad will happen!

[Redline]

No oversight, drugs and overworking is rampant

[Norvid 1950]

It is too bad so many people die on Thai killing roads. Perhaps this time Thai officials - if they really care - do something about it? Speed limits, police checks, electronic speed limitation, black box, driver's proper training, etc?

[CarolJadzia]

Exactly---- it is not a matter of having a law it is ENFORCEMENT of it.Just one example of it---------- I pulled up behind 2 cars at a red light.While waiting for the green a copper in uniform pulled up alongside.Then came 2 m/bikes with 6 youngsters (3 on each) then 2 more with 2 on each.one thats 10 young people and nobody had a helmet!!!!! The copper had no interest whatsoever. I do not understand the mentality of either the people breaking the law or the Cops.All the 10 kids could see the cop but not worried about overtaking him so he could plainly see them ,If it's a question of money then he had in front of him 10 multiplied by 300bt(?)=3000bt----- for 5mins work!!!!! How much can they earn in a pack of say 6-8 of them setting up a barrier for a couple of hours????? The kids know when they are safe and that is the BIG problem.All police are on duty for the whole of their shift not just when they are manning a <deleted> roadblock!!!!!

ENFORCEMENT!

Yes Enforcement works - when and where it is enforced. But we are challenging the enforcement approach even where it is enforced as it does not make the roads 100% safe. Just reduces the chances of accidents happening, but it also creates issues. The biggest of which of course is the focus on speed limits, when in fact the majority of pedestrians (over 90%) killed on UK roads are by people driving within the speed limit. If you want to see evidence of this then I can recommend the 'distracted by speed' articles on Linkedin https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/distracted-speed-index-articles-andrew-mather

Thai Police officers are not paid a lot, more akin to a road sweepers wage. The often share the beliefs of the wider Thai population in reincarnation and spirits. There are also Thai cultural challenges such as the avoidance of confrontation and issues with 'caste'. To simply suggest that they cannot be bothered is incorrect. OK I am not naive enough to suggest there are not instances of idleness, but the issues are far deeper and it's easy to apply Correspondence bias. Maybe in the UK someone can be pulled over for not wearing a helmet because most people do. But when most people do not, one officer on his own suddenly trying to stop every un-helmeted rider would be impossible. Hence the more common road blocks.

This is also applicable to a seat belt law. Trying to enforce such a law is virtually impossible. Just look to the issues around the world with people using phones while driving. Illegal in most countries, but impossible to enforce. So to suddenly expect everyone to start using safety belts just will not happen.

It is suggested the driver of the coach fell asleep. That is what needs addressing. How long had he been driving? Had he had a proper rest period? If Thai vehicles where fitted with Tachographs and there where similar rules to Europe on driver records and hours then at least we could be sure he had. But TiT!

But another question that we already know the probable answer to and that is 'was he trained? Did he know the warning signals of fatigue and know to take a break?

Driver fatigue causes thousands of road accidents each year. Research shows that driver fatigue may be a contributory factor in up to 20% of road accidents 1, and up to one quarter of fatal and serious accidents

http://www.rospa.com/road-safety/advice/drivers/fatigue/

The combined results indicate that a large percentage of the drivers demonstrate behaviours recognised as causal factors of stress & fatigue, it is also clear that a significant proportion have identified those behaviours as being causal factors. 41% of drivers reveal that they daydream on long journeys with 51% of drivers indicating that they recognise this as a causal factor of fatigue. This pattern continues, 71% of drivers recognise that sleep patterns and 73% that irregular hours of work are causal factors of stress & fatigue, however 36% state that they don’t get enough sleep and 60% testify to working long hours. Furthermore 34% of respondents affirm that they lose their tempers when other drivers do silly things, whilst 49% identified this as a causal factor.

'The extent to which heavy goods vehicle driver training is focused on reducing the casual factors of driver stress and fatigue'-PDF

This is from Europe. It is not a problem unique to Thailand. Just as the matter is not addressed the situation is far worse.

But the fix will take more than enforcement.

thairoadcraft.wordpress.com

[lvr181]

Exactly---- it is not a matter of having a law it is ENFORCEMENT of it.Just one example of it---------- I pulled up behind 2 cars at a red light.While waiting for the green a copper in uniform pulled up alongside.Then came 2 m/bikes with 6 youngsters (3 on each) then 2 more with 2 on each.one thats 10 young people and nobody had a helmet!!!!! The copper had no interest whatsoever. I do not understand the mentality of either the people breaking the law or the Cops.All the 10 kids could see the cop but not worried about overtaking him so he could plainly see them ,If it's a question of money then he had in front of him 10 multiplied by 300bt(?)=3000bt----- for 5mins work!!!!! How much can they earn in a pack of say 6-8 of them setting up a barrier for a couple of hours????? The kids know when they are safe and that is the BIG problem.All police are on duty for the whole of their shift not just when they are manning a <deleted> roadblock!!!!!

ENFORCEMENT!

Yes Enforcement works - when and where it is enforced. But we are challenging the enforcement approach even where it is enforced as it does not make the roads 100% safe. Just reduces the chances of accidents happening, but it also creates issues. The biggest of which of course is the focus on speed limits, when in fact the majority of pedestrians (over 90%) killed on UK roads are by people driving within the speed limit. If you want to see evidence of this then I can recommend the 'distracted by speed' articles on Linkedin https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/distracted-speed-index-articles-andrew-mather

Thai Police officers are not paid a lot, more akin to a road sweepers wage. The often share the beliefs of the wider Thai population in reincarnation and spirits. There are also Thai cultural challenges such as the avoidance of confrontation and issues with 'caste'. To simply suggest that they cannot be bothered is incorrect. OK I am not naive enough to suggest there are not instances of idleness, but the issues are far deeper and it's easy to apply Correspondence bias. Maybe in the UK someone can be pulled over for not wearing a helmet because most people do. But when most people do not, one officer on his own suddenly trying to stop every un-helmeted rider would be impossible. Hence the more common road blocks.

This is also applicable to a seat belt law. Trying to enforce such a law is virtually impossible. Just look to the issues around the world with people using phones while driving. Illegal in most countries, but impossible to enforce. So to suddenly expect everyone to start using safety belts just will not happen.

It is suggested the driver of the coach fell asleep. That is what needs addressing. How long had he been driving? Had he had a proper rest period? If Thai vehicles where fitted with Tachographs and there where similar rules to Europe on driver records and hours then at least we could be sure he had. But TiT!

But another question that we already know the probable answer to and that is 'was he trained? Did he know the warning signals of fatigue and know to take a break?

Driver fatigue causes thousands of road accidents each year. Research shows that driver fatigue may be a contributory factor in up to 20% of road accidents 1, and up to one quarter of fatal and serious accidents

http://www.rospa.com/road-safety/advice/drivers/fatigue/

The combined results indicate that a large percentage of the drivers demonstrate behaviours recognised as causal factors of stress & fatigue, it is also clear that a significant proportion have identified those behaviours as being causal factors. 41% of drivers reveal that they daydream on long journeys with 51% of drivers indicating that they recognise this as a causal factor of fatigue. This pattern continues, 71% of drivers recognise that sleep patterns and 73% that irregular hours of work are causal factors of stress & fatigue, however 36% state that they don’t get enough sleep and 60% testify to working long hours. Furthermore 34% of respondents affirm that they lose their tempers when other drivers do silly things, whilst 49% identified this as a causal factor.

'The extent to which heavy goods vehicle driver training is focused on reducing the casual factors of driver stress and fatigue'-PDF

This is from Europe. It is not a problem unique to Thailand. Just as the matter is not addressed the situation is far worse.

But the fix will take more than enforcement.

thairoadcraft.wordpress.com

And who will enforce the enforcers? Leadership starts from the top!

But, in the meantime Government, just keep talking about it. The world awaits with bated breath for something really useful to happen. Meanwhile the "average" Thai citizen has no freeking idea of what's going on!. They go about their everyday living and DYING (unnecessarily all too often).

[chrissables]

When is Thai Gov't going to get serious about taking action to reduce the horrendous road toll??

As a first step, the installation & wearing of seat belts should compulsory in all vehicles, failure to wear a seat belt should incur heavy fine.

Unrestrained travel in utes,van buses, SUV etc should be banned.

Police to strictly enforce the laws.

I have heard that wearing seat belts and indeed helmets when riding bikes, prevents accidents from happening.

I have an idea! PREVENT to cause of accidents, or is that too much for you to consider?

What?? "...PREVENT to cause of accidents" Presume you mean, "prevent the cause....". Cause not officially determined or reported.

Perhaps, in stead of a stupid question, give some positive suggestions!!

Oh dear, i am sorry i thought it was obvious, and was talking in general terms.

A few things that would help prevent accidents would be.

Fully trained and qualified drivers.

Speed limiters on public transport.

Proper vehicle checks yearly, not pay cash and ignore the issues.

The drivers who cause and accidents being given a hard enough punishment to make them start driving in a more careful way.

The owners of vehicles not meeting road standards being fined large enough sums of money to make the keep the vehicles legal.

Or we could be forced the wear all sorts of so called safety gear and hope for the best, which for some unknown reason is better than try to prevent accidents from happening.

[ttthailand]

Again !!!

The biggest problem is that drivers are in a hurry and pass on curves, double yellow lines and even when they see other cars coming head on. The thought process is that the driver in the correct coming lane will move over to the side and give room for the moron to pass.

The only way to stop this is to have tens of thousands of police cars on the road watching and giving tickets for this.

[dirtycash]

Techographs and 2nd drivers should be compulsory, 8 hours maximum each then rest. drug and alcohol tests introduced .

when will they ever learn

[dcnx]

When is Thai Gov't going to get serious about taking action to reduce the horrendous road toll??

As a first step, the installation & wearing of seat belts should compulsory in all vehicles, failure to wear a seat belt should incur heavy fine.

Unrestrained travel in utes,van buses, SUV etc should be banned.

Police to strictly enforce the laws.

Thankfully you have no influence within the Thai government.

I have to put up with all that crap whenever I go home.

What happened to personal choice.

So you are against all safety regulations and believe children have a personal choice when their parents put them on one of these deadly vehicles. Brilliant.

[eggers]

When is Thai Gov't going to get serious about taking action to reduce the horrendous road toll??

As a first step, the installation & wearing of seat belts should compulsory in all vehicles, failure to wear a seat belt should incur heavy fine.

Unrestrained travel in utes,van buses, SUV etc should be banned.

Police to strictly enforce the laws.

Wearing a seat belt is not compulsory in all vehicles in the UK, USA, EU, Australia, Canada etc etc.

Apart from an excuse for a bit of good old Thai bashing your premise is preposterous

http://www.childcarseats.org.uk/the-law/other-vehicles-buses-coaches-and-minibuses/

Seat belts are compulsory in passenger vehicles in all of countries, you've mentioned;not in public transport vehicles, but has recently been introduced into long distance buses some countries.

Thai bashing, as you put it, wasn't the basis for my comments. Your contribution is to criticise positive suggestions to improve road safety in Thailand; so what do you suggest???

[eggers]

When is Thai Gov't going to get serious about taking action to reduce the horrendous road toll??

As a first step, the installation & wearing of seat belts should compulsory in all vehicles, failure to wear a seat belt should incur heavy fine.

Unrestrained travel in utes,van buses, SUV etc should be banned.

Police to strictly enforce the laws.

I have heard that wearing seat belts and indeed helmets when riding bikes, prevents accidents from happening.

I have an idea! PREVENT to cause of accidents, or is that too much for you to consider?

What?? "...PREVENT to cause of accidents" Presume you mean, "prevent the cause....". Cause not officially determined or reported.

Perhaps, in stead of a stupid question, give some positive suggestions!!

Oh dear, i am sorry i thought it was obvious, and was talking in general terms.

A few things that would help prevent accidents would be.

Fully trained and qualified drivers.

Speed limiters on public transport.

Proper vehicle checks yearly, not pay cash and ignore the issues.

The drivers who cause and accidents being given a hard enough punishment to make them start driving in a more careful way.

The owners of vehicles not meeting road standards being fined large enough sums of money to make the keep the vehicles legal.

Or we could be forced the wear all sorts of so called safety gear and hope for the best, which for some unknown reason is better than try to prevent accidents from happening.

As said, seat belts are part or first step, agree with your other points, plus need to have educational programs for schools & advertising to public on need for road toll reduction.

Other countries have successfully reduced road tolls thru a comprehensive program over decades it's almost a generational change.

[chrissables]

Eggers wrote;

As said, seat belts are part or first step, agree with your other points, plus need to have educational programs for schools & advertising to public on need for road toll reduction.

Other countries have successfully reduced road tolls thru a comprehensive program over decades it's almost a generational change.

I found this on google. I am unable to open the link in blue to clarify.

In November, child safety on school buses was discussed again by the Department of Transportation at a meeting of the National Association of Pupil Transportation. The association is responsible for the 500,000 school buses that ferry our children to and from school 240 days a year, including summer school. The issue of seat belts on buses has been debated for 40 years. Like a lot of issues, on the surface the answer seems not just obvious but morally justified. Seat belts save lives, so why wouldn't we put them on school buses?

But before relying on moral arguments to drive public health policies, we owe it to the people we're trying to protect to study whether or not the proposed policy will actually work. As it turns out, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has done just that.

In 2011, the traffic safety administration considered whether seat belts should be required for every school bus. Administration economists and engineers did their homework and reported that in addition to school buses being very safe, regulation requiring seat belts on school buses would very likely lead to more child fatalities each year than the current average of five. Certainly any child fatality is a tragedy. Unfortunately, adding seat belts wouldn't help much – and may even exacerbate – the typical school bus crash.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Today must be Groundhog Day (the Bill Murray movie)...

I woke up, read the OP news report in this thread, and I'm sure I've read the same exact news only about 1 million times before.