BookMan Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Having dinner the other night with a Thai friend, she asked why I would be going to Kanchanaburi around ANZAC (day of remembrance for Australia and New Zealand) I started by explaining that many Australian (and English and Dutch) POWS had lost their lives while pressed into forced labour on the Thai Burma railway. I received a blank look in response, so simplified my explanation to be about Australians who had died in the area during World War 2. Still getting a similarly blank response led me to asking my friend is she knew what World War 2 was. No , She didn't know about World War 2. I attempted to explain World War 2, in differing ways, but I had no success, and it seemed references universally common and recognised in the Western world, did not register at all for her This is a 35 year old educated and intelligent IT professional It isn't the first time I have had this experience and it made me think of two things How to adequately explain about World War 2 to someone with no previous knowledge and In Western Countries, if the school systems stopped teaching WW2 history, will i be having the same conversation back home in 30 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manfredtillmann Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 just don't try. thais had their own bit of trouble with the vietnam incident. ww2 happened 80 years ago, time to let go and focus on stuff happening today. for you and me - involved or directly related to people involved, this might be different. but why would a 35 year old thai be interested in adolf, winston and josef? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eclipse Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Given Thailand's collusion with Japan during WW2 it is probably no surprise that the subject is not spoken about in Thai schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieH Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Didnt do WW2 in school, they focused "history" on ancient history and upto the time of HenryVIII. Everything I know and learned about WW2 I probably gained from TV documetaries and particularly movies. Like, Battle of Britain,Dam Busters, 633 Squadron, Great Escape, Reach for the sky, longest day, and so on. A regular Sunday afternoon movie feature on TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morakot Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 (edited) Bookie, I've got the perfect romantic read that you might like to present your date with! On a more serious note, I suspect you are not trying so much to explain WWII itself, but the value you attach to Anzac Day and the culture of Remembrance (Day) in general. This is much more difficult than explaining historic events. One way to do this might be by analogy or allegory to Thai culture, where "remembering" is very important. You might want to look at something like this for your own background reading: If, however, you merely want your date to come along, forget about this and highlight "Kanchanaburi" as a contemporary fun-event. Edited March 8, 2016 by Morakot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BookMan Posted March 8, 2016 Author Share Posted March 8, 2016 Bookie, I've got the perfect romantic read that you might like to present your date with! On a more serious note, I suspect you are not trying so much to explain WWII itself, but the value you attach to Anzac Day and the culture of Remembrance (Day) in general. This is much more difficult than explaining historic events. One way to do this might be by analogy or allegory to Thai culture, where "remembering" is very important. You might want to look at something like this for your own background reading: If, however, you merely want your date to come along, forget about this and highlight "Kanchanaburi" as a contemporary fun-event. Thanks Morakot,the bit about using the remembering is a good tip I thought that by explaining ww2 it would then be easier to explain the reason for my trip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyjim5 Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 'History', even Thai history, is a subject that does not appear to be well taught (if taught at all) in the Thai education system. I have met 'well educated' Thai people who have less knowledge of Thai history than me ! Accepting the events which led to the Kanchanaburi memorial/remembrance service(s) would be very difficult for many Thai people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 I used a timeline map I found on the internet it lasts about five minutes..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobotie Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Get the movie Bridge on the River Kwaai with Thai sub titles sorted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Gravy Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Take your friend to Kanchanaburi. let them see the marvelous museum and cemeteries. The Thais that go down there no what happened. I am against brushing the truth and history under the carpet. You are not shaming Thai people and Thailand, just letting them know what happened. Also letting your friend know why lots of western people come to a lovely part of Thailand for sad reasons, the loss of loved ones and family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaalle Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 I have met westerners who have no knowledge of current and past events. But Thais take the prize no argument there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thongkorn Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 There is no excuse for not knowing about World War One or two. Regardless of which country you live in . They died for our freedom of today. Ignorance is no excuse . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoiBiker Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 (edited) Take your friend to Kanchanaburi. let them see the marvelous museum and cemeteries. The Thais that go down there no what happened. I am against brushing the truth and history under the carpet. You are not shaming Thai people and Thailand, just letting them know what happened. Also letting your friend know why lots of western people come to a lovely part of Thailand for sad reasons, the loss of loved ones and family. I'm not so sure the Thais that go there understand. Last time I was up there I watched a group of Thai tourists do a 'jump in the air and scream' group selfie in front of the memorial at hellfire pass. Edited March 8, 2016 by SoiBiker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwdrwdrwd Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 My wife was similarly uninformed, we watched Schindlers List and that prompted a load of questions about who / what / why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyjim5 Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Take your friend to Kanchanaburi. let them see the marvelous museum and cemeteries. The Thais that go down there no what happened. I am against brushing the truth and history under the carpet. You are not shaming Thai people and Thailand, just letting them know what happened. Also letting your friend know why lots of western people come to a lovely part of Thailand for sad reasons, the loss of loved ones and family. I'm not so sure the Thais that go there understand. Last time I was up there I watched a group of Thai tourists do a 'jump in the air and scream' group selfie in front of the memorial at hellfire pass. Obviously the Thais were showing more understand and respect than the creature identified in the link http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/man-jailed-for-urinating-on-war-memorial/article18171552/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Just point out that it killed about 40,000 Australians and about 6 million people in S.E. Asian countries. They'll probably say "Oh THAT war!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 My wife was similarly uninformed, we watched Schindlers List and that prompted a load of questions about who / what / why. That was Europe - Did you inform her of the Franco Thai war? (1940s) did you explain the pre-war policies of Phibun? did you mention the Japanese -Thai alliance?...or the role of Pridi in the Thai resistance? or the role of USA in taking over after the war? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 The truth of the matter is that many of the expats and nearly ALL of the tourists I speak to have absolutely no idea of what happened in this region during the second world war.....it even includes those who fought here..........most Europeans see the WW2 as a European affair and conveniently forget it was even at the time at least by the end called a WORLD war. When it comes to the details of deaths and casualties most westerners have a lamentably lop-sided perspective - and that even includes US troops stationed out here....as for the "bridge over the River Kwai" - that was a movie based on a novel by a Frenchman with the name of the river changed by the local thai authorities and the bridge in the wrong location....... Yes, there were huge numbers who lost their lives there - mostly Asian forced labourers - whilst not denying the sacrifice of the allied troops lets also try to get the facts straight ourselves before criticising those who were, for one reason or another, on the "other" side for not having the same perspective as a westerner of the conflicts of the 1930s and 40s....and after.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 I dont think many people even in the West realise Russias losses in the war and the fact Europe was just a side show for the Germans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morakot Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 (edited) I dont think many people even in the West realise Russias losses in the war and the fact Europe was just a side show for the Germans The Fallen of World War II https://vimeo.com/128373915 An animated data-driven documentary about war and peace, The Fallen of World War II looks at the human cost of the second World War and sizes up the numbers to other wars in history, including trends in recent conflicts. Well-worth watching the entire 18 minutes! Edited March 8, 2016 by Morakot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 "History is written by the Victors" - unfortunately it isn't always that accurate....at leat to start with and then in the perception of the general populace. As a kid I was bombarded with WW2 movies which having American, German, Italian, Russian and French blood in the family left me puzzled as I'd never met these cartoon Germans in the films, but I was lucky enough to go to a school where for history I was able to study both "the Great War" and WW2. It put me in a position to see how little my fellow countrymen understood about the war......I remember well the controversy over AJP Taylor's "Origins of the Second World War" - and how it was largely fuelled by people's ignorance both of the events but also of the book. so to suggest that Thai people know nothing of WW2 is largely incorrect because they don't identify withy the same conflict in terms of dates, events, geography or Euro-centric history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHolmesJr Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Still doesn't explain why the Hitler memorabilia is such a hit in thailand….swastikas, SS outfits…maybe they thought WW2 was some sort of cosplay situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestburypark Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 There is no excuse for not knowing about World War One or two. Regardless of which country you live in . They died for our freedom of today. Ignorance is no excuse . True, but my country never said a word about it at school in the 50's/60's.......ENGLAND... I was at school in the 60's and early 70's in England and we had a comprehensive education regarding WW2. Did regular O and A level syllabus. Also covered WW1 . Then about 1000+ years of British history. I liked history, still do , great subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaeJoMTB Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 BBC World at War (WW2) series released on Youtube. http://youtu.be/m0mrOeJwXBI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 (edited) Still doesn't explain why the Hitler memorabilia is such a hit in thailand….swastikas, SS outfits…maybe they thought WW2 was some sort of cosplay situation. I think it does - the west sees it as symbols of a war in Europe whereas in Asia the connection is less obvious - especially as the governments in Thailand leading up to the war were particularly fond of fascism. In UK punk used Nazi paraphernalia as a protest or at least a provocative statement and there are many people in Thailand who may naively consider irt some kind of off-beat fashion statement too. However the war in Europe was and is a long way off - to them the war was a period for most of the time Japan was an ally - not even a colonial master as in China but an ally that allowed the government and armed forces to stay in place. For Europeans (not Americans) the dates for the start of WW2 centre around 1939...but in Asia Japn started to invade China in 1931 and all-out war by 1937.........yet so many Europeans are happy to use 1939 as a "start date"....even the end of the war is not really the end even in Europe, but this is never considered by most who really cling to the TV/Movie histories they have been fed by a biased media for the last 7 decades in the West we expect everyone to know about the war in Europe when it is the war in Asia that had some of the greatest casualties and the most long term detrimental effects. Really this perception is not the result of Thai ignorance so much as Euro-centric ignorance by expats. Edited March 8, 2016 by cumgranosalum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaeJoMTB Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 I was at school in the UK in the 50's and 60's...No mention of WW2... And Yet, It was our History subject in summer 1968. UK Secondary Modern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 I was at school in the UK in the 50's and 60's...No mention of WW2... And Yet, It was our History subject in summer 1968. UK Secondary Modern. Probably at the back of the class drawing pictures of cars and didn't notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 I was at school in the UK in the 50's and 60's...No mention of WW2... And Yet, It was our History subject in summer 1968. UK Secondary Modern. Probably at the back of the class drawing pictures of cars and didn't notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipperylobster Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Good that The Axis powers lost . Not the last war...stay tuned. However, Thailand is much older than Australia, or the USA, and has seen worse times in their history (and much more relevant). The gap between the haves and have nots is not getting smaller. Korea and China are making noises more often than not, the Middle East is a hornets nest of malcontent and the West, as we would want to remember it...is history. I would say....no relevancy for her.....other than beware of cruel dictators, and giving away all your power to one man...(i.e. Hitler). Economic stability, and security will become the prime motivators....not divide and conquer. No more empires....(I hope). Perhaps Trump Casinos everywhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWMcMurray Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Didnt do WW2 in school, they focused "history" on ancient history and upto the time of HenryVIII. Everything I know and learned about WW2 I probably gained from TV documetaries and particularly movies. Like, Battle of Britain,Dam Busters, 633 Squadron, Great Escape, Reach for the sky, longest day, and so on. A regular Sunday afternoon movie feature on TV. Took a Thai history class when going to University here in Thailand Also confirm no mention of world War 1 or WWII it went straight from ancient times into more recent past Only part that was included was the names of kings and PMs that were in charge in the early - mid 1900's but no discussion of the details of what was going on during that period Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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