Foreign tenants told to go to court for property dispute

[webfact]

Foreign tenants told to go to court for property dispute
Phuket Gazette


Phuket Vice Governor Prajiad Aksornthammakul talks with the press. Two Aspasia tenants stand behind him Photo: Kongleaphy Keam

PHUKET: -- A group of tenants living at The Aspasia Phuket, who were hoping to have issues about the property’s management ironed out by the governor, have been told to go to court to settle their disputes.

The group of ten expat tenants led by Dutch national Jan Cornelis van Zuilekom were told by Vice Governor Prajiad Aksornthammakul yesterday that they would have to go through standard legal channels to address their complaints over conditions related to their leasehold contracts.

The contingent had met with Phuket Govenor Chamroen Tipayapongtida on Friday, asking him to mediate their dispute, which resulted in two of the tenants in the group having the water and electricity shut off at their rooms.

Full story: http://www.phuketgazette.net/phuket-news/Foreign-tenants-told-go-court-property-dispute/63360?desktopversion

-- Phuket Gazette 2016-03-08

[LivinginKata]

What did they expect ? As usual the governor just passed the problem to the courts. The tenants will be stuck there for at least 10 years ....

[trogers]

A very common problem faced by lessees of apartments and properties owned by a person or company - inflated utility charges.

Owners of condominium units would not allow this.

[terryp]

these people are Tenants?? why put yourself tho all this stress etc.....walk away or loose a fortune and then end up with nothing ...this is thailand YOU WILL NEVER WIN ANYTHING

[elgordo38]

these people are Tenants?? why put yourself tho all this stress etc.....walk away or loose a fortune and then end up with nothing ...this is thailand YOU WILL NEVER WIN ANYTHING

Are these guys newbies? Somebody should step in and explain to them how things work here. Basically your on your own especially if your a foreigner. I often wonder what governors do here? Who do they represent besides themselves? Ah yes the moneyed gentry slipped my mind.

[trogers]

these people are Tenants?? why put yourself tho all this stress etc.....walk away or loose a fortune and then end up with nothing ...this is thailand YOU WILL NEVER WIN ANYTHING

You can't just walk away from 30-year leases...

[asean]

If it was a 30 year lease then it was badly written.

[hdkane]

What is the name of the management company? I would like to know because after a couple of years of blatant theft, my condo committee finally replaced the management company...with no penalty whatsoever...the Thai owners merely offered that "this is Thailand"...in my opinion, a country of cowards...

[atyclb]

wonder what the tanant contract terms actually state? usually the condo owner pays a % of monthly rental income to management company in return for dealing with routine issues. one wonders if the management company perhaps decided to enrich themselves more by inflating the actual cost of electricity-water ?? is that a condo building? if so there should be a transparent financials statement(s) readily available even if there is a management company involved.

in my 99% thai condo our prior accountant was a lovely woman who was skimming a lot of the common fee cash she received each month. when shit hit the fan she was offered 2 options # return the money or # go to jail. she returned the money

[Monkeyrobot]

I had a look at the place on there website it looks pretty nice , If any of the tenants in dispute are on TV can you post what you are unhappy with ? As I read it's the management company that won't produce expenditure documents? Can you advise what you think you are being overcharged for ?

[harleyclarkey]

He couldn't care a toss.......he just dumped the owners.

I can just see the corrupt Phuket lawyers lining up to offer their services over the next ten years.

[SOTIRIOS]

.....come here with goodwill....have very few options.....take it or leave it......

...if the governor's office is turning its head....good luck.....

....court......fees......and living in hell .........money money money......and that's what you get....

...sounds about right....not........

[springheeled jack]

frankly I don't think these people have any chance of getting a result from these people this is a typical situation where the management can literally please themselves what they do with the money .

[stevenl]

This is an ordinary property dispute, or dissatisfaction with services rendered. I don't see why the governor would get involved, this belongs in the courts

[sunnyjim5]

If these people have a problem with "the management" that cannot be resolved amicably it is right for the matter to be taken to court.

For the cynics a close friend of mine has just won a 1.5 million settlement courtesy of the Court. He, however, had a sound, well document case and did not need to seek 'help' from the Governor and did not need publicity.

[useronthenet]

If it was a 30 year lease then it was badly written.

Why was it badly written ? You can only get a 30 year lease at any given time. Any contract that states that a foreigner is entitled to an extention invalidates the contract under Thai law. 30 x 30 x 30 year leases are not worth the paper they are written on.

[Ulic]

In other words PFO (Please ------ Off)

[DeanAndrewC64]

There is hope, I took one of the largest developers to court here, I fronted up, gave evidence, won the case, they appealed, I won the appeal. Dont assume you can not win if you have a strong case. But make it a reasonable claim.

[tomacht8]

If it was a 30 year lease then it was badly written.

Why was it badly written ? You can only get a 30 year lease at any given time. Any contract that states that a foreigner is entitled to an extention invalidates the contract under Thai law. 30 x 30 x 30 year leases are not worth the paper they are written on.

“We bought the place for 90 years – there is a lot of money involved,” said Mr Zuilekom. “We just want to live there in peace and have transparent management.

90 years?

What's that for a lease / purchase agreement?

Sounds pretty strange.

Are the contracts even legal?

[sunnyjim5]

If it was a 30 year lease then it was badly written.

Why was it badly written ? You can only get a 30 year lease at any given time. Any contract that states that a foreigner is entitled to an extention invalidates the contract under Thai law. 30 x 30 x 30 year leases are not worth the paper they are written on.

“We bought the place for 90 years – there is a lot of money involved,” said Mr Zuilekom. “We just want to live there in peace and have transparent management.

90 years?

What's that for a lease / purchase agreement?

Sounds pretty strange.

Are the contracts even legal?

Who knows ?

They will have to make their case in court.

[zaZa9]

I dont get this.

The plaintiffs buy a 30 year lease , plus agree to pay a variable ( read ,'unpredictable' ) fee for the buildings and grounds maintenance each year.

Their investment gets worth less every year ( as the 30 years diminish ) , and the Management Team , so the staff , whose wages they pay , get the right to fight the lease holders ( aka their 'bosses' ) in court ?

Why the hell would anyone want to make this sort of deal ????

[sunnyjim5]

I dont get this.

The plaintiffs buy a 30 year lease , plus agree to pay a variable ( read ,'unpredictable' ) fee for the buildings and grounds maintenance each year.

Their investment gets worth less every year ( as the 30 years diminish ) , and the Management Team , so the staff , whose wages they pay , get the right to fight the lease holders ( aka their 'bosses' ) in court ?

Why the hell would anyone want to make this sort of deal ????

I am sure the 'lease holders' will be pleased to have you, with your vast legal knowledge and experience, represent them in court.

As you say "who the hell would want a deal like this"?

The judge will be impressed, for certain, with the profound depth of understanding, insight and knowledge that statement displays.

[NeverSure]

I dont get this.

The plaintiffs buy a 30 year lease , plus agree to pay a variable ( read ,'unpredictable' ) fee for the buildings and grounds maintenance each year.

Their investment gets worth less every year ( as the 30 years diminish ) , and the Management Team , so the staff , whose wages they pay , get the right to fight the lease holders ( aka their 'bosses' ) in court ?

Why the hell would anyone want to make this sort of deal ????

I am sure the 'lease holders' will be pleased to have you, with your vast legal knowledge and experience, represent them in court.

As you say "who the hell would want a deal like this"?

The judge will be impressed, for certain, with the profound depth of understanding, insight and knowledge that statement displays.

What's wrong with that? Why would anyone lease something for that long when in the end he owns nothing? How about a 1 year lease you could walk away from if things go sideways? You can't lose more than one years rent.

Rent is too cheap in Thailand to get embroiled in things like this. We also have no clue as to what if any visa and extensions of stay changes there might be in - wait for it - 30 years???

[Acharn]

these people are Tenants?? why put yourself tho all this stress etc.....walk away or loose a fortune and then end up with nothing ...this is thailand YOU WILL NEVER WIN ANYTHING

Are these guys newbies? Somebody should step in and explain to them how things work here. Basically your on your own especially if your a foreigner. I often wonder what governors do here? Who do they represent besides themselves? Ah yes the moneyed gentry slipped my mind.

Who do governors represent? What a strange question. They represent the government, of course. They are appointed by the government (presumably some committee of high-ranking kharachakans in the Department of the Interior). Although they often will help well-placed citizens of their province, their main duties are to keep an eye on tax revenues and try to keep corruption within limits acceptable to Thais. Their interests do not include representing citizens in disputes, especially foreigners who have failed to seek out and follow good advice. By the way, there have been suggestions with every new Constitution that perhaps governors would be more interested in helping the local citizens if they were elected. Of course, the idea is laughed out of town by all right-thinking people until the next coup.

[simon43]

We bought the place for 90 years...

Er no, you did not. You will be lucky to get the 30 year lease legalised, considering that you have attempted to evade Thai property law

[luckyman]

There is hope, I took one of the largest developers to court here, I fronted up, gave evidence, won the case, they appealed, I won the appeal. Dont assume you can not win if you have a strong case. But make it a reasonable claim.

Nice one !

And congratulations to you for winning the case, probably thanks to being so resilient, how long did it all take ?

[KarenBravo]

Unfortunately, a 30+30+30 year lease is invalid. The +30+30 makes the original 30 years null and void.

[AJBangkok]

Unfortunately, a 30+30+30 year lease is invalid. The +30+30 makes the original 30 years null and void.

I'm not sure if that's the case. I think it may depend if there is a separate contract for the initial 30 year lease which their should be if it is endorsed by the land department.

In any event think that the last thing that local real estate agents want is a high profile court case about foreigners getting ripped off on leased property.

[mikebell]

There is hope, I took one of the largest developers to court here, I fronted up, gave evidence, won the case, they appealed, I won the appeal. Dont assume you can not win if you have a strong case. But make it a reasonable claim.

Nice one !

And congratulations to you for winning the case, probably thanks to being so resilient, how long did it all take ?

Our Moo-baan is a Juristic Entity. A Thai Naval officer decided he was too important to pay annual maintenance fees. Eventually we took him to court and won back 150K fees/interest/some legal costs. It took us 4 years & cost 50K in legal fees. We won the case and have not had any other offenders in three years. We publish our accounts every month; every item has a bill/receipt. Every year our accounts are audited. We have 1.5 million in the bank. We have 24/7 security and not had a break-in for nearly six years. We have three vacant houses for sale out of 62 in total.

The average house is 100 talang-wah with fees of 17,000 annually. We have a part-time office manager to handle day-to-day matters + a committee of 4 farangs & 2 Thais. This management service must be worth thousands a year to owners but is provided free by the volunteer committee.

[Scouse Twoccer]

What did they expect ? As usual the governor just passed the problem to the courts. The tenants will be stuck there for at least 10 years ....

As the Vice Governor would have no authority on this case what would you expect him to do? The court is the only place to sort these issues when they get this serious.

Aren't these 'tenants' actually owners?