fake nominee case

[buythisdashcam]

How have you been caught ? Should tell to others to warn them !

[greenchair]

The lawyers council of Thailand are very good and will take care of you for free. Since they do not receive money you don't have to worry about some unscrupulous lawyer charging outlandish sums for a forgone conclusion. Over by the Koh San road.

[ozyjon]

Very interesting reading all the replies, i don't understand

business, when i'm in (not my country) i keep my nose

clean and respect all laws, i don't like trouble.

I watched the movie when it was released, scared me then,

i'm still scared now.

[namatjira]

Just pack a comfortable pair of shoes and a clean hankerchief, my mum says that's always a good idea

[doublephil]

_{I have some experience as my ex-wife tried to make a case claiming the Thai shareholders in my company were nominees. The case was against them - the Thai shareholders - not me because being a foreigner with minority shareholding, I was completely legitimate. She really wanted to get me in jail and/or deported but there was simply no case against me with regards to other people being nominee shareholders. Without the facts of the , I am really not sure what you have pleaded guilty to - and why. My lawyer at the time told me it was almost impossible to prove Thai shareholders were nominees - and indeed the case was dropped before ever going to court. You really need to get a lawyer who knows about business and commercial law as most ordinary lawyers haven't got a clue - and get him to sort it out}

[cyberfarang]

A fine of 1000000 baht and 3 years imprisonment including the nominees and Thai wife if she`s involved.

[Autonuaq]

What they can do, and probably will do, is say the company not exist due to the fake shareholders.

So all comes to the shareholders and the manager

Meaning tax declaration

Income tax

Comapny tax.

Fraud. No more no less.

Fraud to gain financial profit.

Depending on the laywer and how you act in cour as well howcthe case is

You go to jail and or pay a fine and or you are not allowed to enter Thailand

You know or could know the company is fake and the shareholders are fake.

Wish you all luck and wisdom.

[generealty]

Can you let the forum know exactly what business and how you have run it for the past few years, did you have an accountant and pay tax ?

[Krataiboy]

Not visa related. Moved to the business forum.

Surely we need a Crime forum. Or are business and crime two cheeks of the same arse?

[JCauto]

Seems to me that if business is slow, the less ethical lawyers who set up these nominee companies will surely see an alternative income generating scheme via cooperating with the police to set up their clients in return for arranging for the problem to go away or to simply get additional work representing the people they set up in the first place.

[ardokano]

Not visa related. Moved to the business forum.

Surely we need a Crime forum. Or are business and crime two cheeks of the same arse?

In Thailand its very near.

Can not be owner bussines in Thailand with out nominee. 49% it's not Owner. Shareholders who not have finance for they part capital in bussines on start it nominee.Find Who have money and go with farang make bussines as investor(not owner, partnerr) chance be near 0.

[Pattaya46]

All these "nominee companies" are more and more on scrutiny.

See by example this article from this week:

Phuket lawyers, accountants targeted for enabling Thai nominees

Officials will be investigating legal firms and accounting offices connected with businesses suspected of using Thai nominee shareholders to circumvent laws prohibiting foreigners from owning more than 49 per cent of a company within the Kingdom....

http://phuketgazette.net/phuket-news/Phuket-lawyers-accountants-targeted-enabling-Thai-nominees/63361

[kiwikeith]

Did you use a lawyer to set up the company? must have --- so who invented the nominees names??? maybe you dont want to mix with that lawyer again , maybe a guilty plea adding that you were unaware that the Nominees did not exist as your lawyer set up the company , but then sounds a bit far fetched,

Good luck.

[joshstiles]

help????

you'll get your help if you are guilty..

which sounds like you are...

pray for rain

[louse1953]

Sorry but you are obviously a devious person who tried to circumvent the law and therefore you deserve whatever the penalty is. Suck it up. No sympathy here.

Remember your words next time when you break the speed limit. jay walk, use a prostitute, DUI or break any "small" law, because then you are the same as him.

No words to remember,when i break small laws i pay the penalty,no problem there.I don't intentionally break the law as op has done.He has manned up,so that is good.

[Bobotie]

Sorry but you are obviously a devious person who tried to circumvent the law and therefore you deserve whatever the penalty is. Suck it up. No sympathy here.

Remember your words next time when you break the speed limit. jay walk, use a prostitute, DUI or break any "small" law, because then you are the same as him.

No words to remember,when i break small laws i pay the penalty,no problem there.I don't intentionally break the law as op has done.He has manned up,so that is good.

Steal a penny or steal 1 million GBP its still theft, the only variance is the consequence...small law, big law, still broken law...same same

[ardokano]

Sorry but you are obviously a devious person who tried to circumvent the law and therefore you deserve whatever the penalty is. Suck it up. No sympathy here.

Remember your words next time when you break the speed limit. jay walk, use a prostitute, DUI or break any "small" law, because then you are the same as him.

No words to remember,when i break small laws i pay the penalty,no problem there.I don't intentionally break the law as op has done.He has manned up,so that is good.

You hypocrite. Your not so dirty than someone else? And that why why you think you are clean?

But it only seems that way to you. It still stinks

[Naam]

Sorry but you are obviously a devious person who tried to circumvent the law and therefore you deserve whatever the penalty is. Suck it up. No sympathy here.

Remember your words next time when you break the speed limit. jay walk, use a prostitute, DUI or break any "small" law, because then you are the same as him.

No words to remember,when i break small laws i pay the penalty,no problem there.I don't intentionally break the law as op has done.He has manned up,so that is good.

You hypocrite. Your not so dirty than someone else? And that why why you think you are clean?

But it only seems that way to you. It still stinks

[TheCruncher]

Sorry but you are obviously a devious person who tried to circumvent the law and therefore you deserve whatever the penalty is. Suck it up. No sympathy here.

Remember your words next time when you break the speed limit. jay walk, use a prostitute, DUI or break any "small" law, because then you are the same as him.

No words to remember,when i break small laws i pay the penalty,no problem there.I don't intentionally break the law as op has done.He has manned up,so that is good.

I guesstimate that another 100.000 foreigners are in the exact same situation as the OP, because they bought a house in company name and have fake nominees. Lets waitg and see how this turns out.

It would be of interest if the OP returned to the thread and confirmed if this is about a company to own a property or not.

[Naam]

Did you use a lawyer to set up the company? must have --- so who invented the nominees names??? maybe you dont want to mix with that lawyer again , maybe a guilty plea adding that you were unaware that the Nominees did not exist as your lawyer set up the company , but then sounds a bit far fetched,

Good luck.

Dude... you got it all totally wrong!

nominee shareholders are not invented. these Thai citizens are not fake because they do exist... what they did not do is invest own money in the company as Thai authorities are made to believe.

[Robert24]

Sorry but you are obviously a devious person who tried to circumvent the law and therefore you deserve whatever the penalty is. Suck it up. No sympathy here.

Remember your words next time when you break the speed limit. jay walk, use a prostitute, DUI or break any "small" law, because then you are the same as him.

No words to remember,when i break small laws i pay the penalty,no problem there.I don't intentionally break the law as op has done.He has manned up,so that is good.

I guesstimate that another 100.000 foreigners are in the exact same situation as the OP, because they bought a house in company name and have fake nominees. Lets waitg and see how this turns out.

It would be of interest if the OP returned to the thread and confirmed if this is about a company to own a property or not.

I think you mean a real nominee company and not a fake one. I don't think there are many fake nominee companies...

[PomRakBKK]

The company who set up your company and came up with the shareholders should sort this out.

I know someone in a similar position who's employees only exist on paper (they are real people), but when (I think) the labour department comes to check the office and sees no employees a 'transaction' is made and it's all fine and dandy. That's been common practice for years - at least in BKK.

Like others have mentioned I am not sure what you're pleading guilty to. You probably set up the company to get yourself a work-permit and work 'legally' without having 4 thai employees, correct?

As long as you paid tax and social security for your 'employees' then I don't see the trouble you are really in. After all this is Thailand not a westernised country, so even you are circumventing the law by having 4 fake employees doesn't automatically put you in jail or anything close to that.

Theres 1000's of companies out there with fake employees. As long as SS is paid and an envelope exchanges hands if you get a visit to your office, then it's business as usual.

In your case, I am quite sure someone is trying to rat you out or try to stick something on you. It usually doesn't happen out of nowhere.

Don't go with one of those small hua hin law firms, they will just fleece you in my opinion. Chose someone who has been around for a longtime.

Edited March 13, 2016 by PomRakBKK

[TheCruncher]

Remember your words next time when you break the speed limit. jay walk, use a prostitute, DUI or break any "small" law, because then you are the same as him.

No words to remember,when i break small laws i pay the penalty,no problem there.I don't intentionally break the law as op has done.He has manned up,so that is good.

I guesstimate that another 100.000 foreigners are in the exact same situation as the OP, because they bought a house in company name and have fake nominees. Lets waitg and see how this turns out.

It would be of interest if the OP returned to the thread and confirmed if this is about a company to own a property or not.

I think you mean a real nominee company and not a fake one. I don't think there are many fake nominee companies...

I think you mean, you just want to be pedantic, because all but a select few pedants that are reading this thread know what is meant with " Fake nominee". And I can assure you that from all the companies formed to own a property only, 99% is registered with fake nominees.

[Robert24]

Remember your words next time when you break the speed limit. jay walk, use a prostitute, DUI or break any "small" law, because then you are the same as him.

No words to remember,when i break small laws i pay the penalty,no problem there.I don't intentionally break the law as op has done.He has manned up,so that is good.

I guesstimate that another 100.000 foreigners are in the exact same situation as the OP, because they bought a house in company name and have fake nominees. Lets waitg and see how this turns out.

It would be of interest if the OP returned to the thread and confirmed if this is about a company to own a property or not.

I think you mean a real nominee company and not a fake one. I don't think there are many fake nominee companies...

I think you mean, you just want to be pedantic, because all but a select few pedants that are reading this thread know what is meant with " Fake nominee". And I can assure you that from all the companies formed to own a property only, 99% is registered with fake nominees.

I know that it meant to say real nominees and not fake nominees. Maybe pedantic on my part, sorry if you feel that way but I guess one wants to be precise in describing an issue.

[TheCruncher]

Remember your words next time when you break the speed limit. jay walk, use a prostitute, DUI or break any "small" law, because then you are the same as him.

No words to remember,when i break small laws i pay the penalty,no problem there.I don't intentionally break the law as op has done.He has manned up,so that is good.

I guesstimate that another 100.000 foreigners are in the exact same situation as the OP, because they bought a house in company name and have fake nominees. Lets waitg and see how this turns out.

It would be of interest if the OP returned to the thread and confirmed if this is about a company to own a property or not.

I think you mean a real nominee company and not a fake one. I don't think there are many fake nominee companies...

I think you mean, you just want to be pedantic, because all but a select few pedants that are reading this thread know what is meant with " Fake nominee". And I can assure you that from all the companies formed to own a property only, 99% is registered with fake nominees.

I know that it meant to say real nominees and not fake nominees. Maybe pedantic on my part, sorry if you feel that way but I guess one wants to be precise in describing an issue.

No it didn't want to say real nominees, it wanted to say real humans acting as fake nominees.

[Naam]

--"fake" nominees exist neither in Thailand nor are the hundreds of thousands offshore corporations and their godzillion nominees fake or illegal!

-per definition a nominee shareholder holds a percentage of share "in name" only without actually participating financially except a fee for the service to act which does not pertain to profit and loss of the company he/she serves.

-the latter is illegal in Thailand because it circumvents the policy that Thai nationals must own the majority of a company's shares. exceptions (Amity Treatment) prove the rule.

-insinuations, such as "lawyer invented names", in this thread demonstrate utmost ignorance and it's not pedantic to add a relevant explanation.

[TheCruncher]

--"fake" nominees exist neither in Thailand nor are the hundreds of thousands offshore corporations and their godzillion nominees fake or illegal!

-per definition a nominee shareholder holds a percentage of share "in name" only without actually participating financially except a fee for the service to act which does not pertain to profit and loss of the company he/she serves.

-the latter is illegal in Thailand because it circumvents the policy that Thai nationals must own the majority of a company's shares. exceptions (Amity Treatment) prove the rule.

-insinuations, such as "lawyer invented names", in this thread demonstrate utmost ignorance and it's not pedantic to add a relevant explanation.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/fake?

fake¹

an object, person, or act that is not genuine; sham, counterfeit, or forgery.

In the case of the Thai company registrations, the so called nominees usually sign off their shares to an unknown person even before the company papers have reached the registration office.

Therefor those so called nominees on the company records are not genuine, since they have signed off their shares already, or also called fake as per dictionary.

[maisodni]

To the OP - if the prosecution is for operating a business as a foreigner in violation of the FBA, it would be a violation of Section 8, and the penalties would be as shown in Section 37 at http://www.thailawforum.com/database1/foreign3.html.

But - I am astounded to hear of a case being prosecuted - and actually reaching court. To my knowledge, there have only been two prosecutions - EVER:

1. Against Shin Corporation

2. Against DTAC

Both of these prosecutions were because of threats to National Security - in that both controlled mobile phone networks, and Shin Corporation controlled Thailand's only two satellites in space.

To put in frankly, I find it hard to believe that any such case involving a small business could possibly be prosecuted without such a prosecution making the front page of every newspaper in Thailand - and probably Asia - and causing every foreign chamber of commerce in Thailand to go absolutely ballistic.

Are you SURE that there is actually a court summons, with charge sheet attached? If so - have you contacted your home country's embassy in Thailand?

Or - are you possibly being prosecuted for violation of the Land Act - for purchasing land USING a company whose Thai shareholders did actually pay for their shares? In that case, you are not being prosecuted under the FBA - you are being prosecuted under the Land Act - and to get out of prosecution, you just need to arrange to have a Thai citizen of Thai company own the land - and you can own the structure on the land, and use the land under a usafruct agreement - see details under Section 1417 of the Civil and Commercial Code of Thailand at https://www.samuiforsale.com/law-texts/thailand-civil-code-part-3.html.

It is my understanding that the lowest Thai official who can approve a prosecution under the FBA is the Prime Minister of Thailand himself. And - that is never going to happen, except in cases involving national security, or billions of baht in profit.

Also, in order to prosecute you, every Thai involved in the process - the Thai shareholders, any Thai directors, the lawyer who helped you set up the company - would simultaneously be prosecuted under Section 36 - and that would make HUGE news.

This report fails my "sniff test" for credibility. It is virtually impossible. OP - are you sure this is actually in the Thai justice system? Or is this just about somebody threatening you, taking advantage of your ignorance? I've been dealing with the FBA continually for 14 years - including being involved with criminal cases involving theft of shares, and criminal misconduct by directors - and I cannot imagine an FBA prosecution being initiated without my legal network hearing about it.

Finally - except when national security is involved - prosecution under the FBA will never be initiated by the government - it will always be initiated by a complaint by an injured party. Who is the party who initiated a complaint against you? In each and every criminal case related to business law in which I have been involved, none of them - ZERO - ever reached a courtroom. In every case, a settlement was reached, and the injured party dropped the charges.

MS

Edited March 13, 2016 by maisodni

[Naam]

--"fake" nominees exist neither in Thailand nor are the hundreds of thousands offshore corporations and their godzillion nominees fake or illegal!

-per definition a nominee shareholder holds a percentage of share "in name" only without actually participating financially except a fee for the service to act which does not pertain to profit and loss of the company he/she serves.

-the latter is illegal in Thailand because it circumvents the policy that Thai nationals must own the majority of a company's shares. exceptions (Amity Treatment) prove the rule.

-insinuations, such as "lawyer invented names", in this thread demonstrate utmost ignorance and it's not pedantic to add a relevant explanation.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/fake?

fake¹

an object, person, or act that is not genuine; sham, counterfeit, or forgery.

In the case of the Thai company registrations, the so called nominees usually sign off their shares to an unknown person even before the company papers have reached the registration office.

Therefor those so called nominees on the company records are not genuine, since they have signed off their shares already, or also called fake as per dictionary.

you are mixing up fake shareholders with nominees. nominees acting as shareholders are not allowed in Thailand (as opposed to the rest of the world). they don't exist. something that does not exist can't be fake. period!

case closed.

witnesses are dismissed.

bailiff next case...

preferably the redhead with the big knockers.

[TheCruncher]

--"fake" nominees exist neither in Thailand nor are the hundreds of thousands offshore corporations and their godzillion nominees fake or illegal!

-per definition a nominee shareholder holds a percentage of share "in name" only without actually participating financially except a fee for the service to act which does not pertain to profit and loss of the company he/she serves.

-the latter is illegal in Thailand because it circumvents the policy that Thai nationals must own the majority of a company's shares. exceptions (Amity Treatment) prove the rule.

-insinuations, such as "lawyer invented names", in this thread demonstrate utmost ignorance and it's not pedantic to add a relevant explanation.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/fake?

fake¹

an object, person, or act that is not genuine; sham, counterfeit, or forgery.

In the case of the Thai company registrations, the so called nominees usually sign off their shares to an unknown person even before the company papers have reached the registration office.

Therefor those so called nominees on the company records are not genuine, since they have signed off their shares already, or also called fake as per dictionary.

you are mixing up fake shareholders with nominees. nominees acting as shareholders are not allowed in Thailand (as opposed to the rest of the world). they don't exist. something that does not exist can't be fake. period!

case closed.

witnesses are dismissed.

bailiff next case...

preferably the redhead with the big knockers.

Indeed I'm talking about shareholders, so just replace the word "nominee" with "shareholder" and we are right there, with fake shareholders.

I used the word " Nominee" because the OP started to use it and everyone thereafter, including member Naam , continued to use the word.

So what was that again about pedantic?

company with fake thai nominees( shareholders)