โฉนดที่ดิน - No Title?

[RobAussie]

Hi there, my wife is looking to buy land in Thailand for her parents to farm and eventually we will build there a semi retirement / holiday house and also somewhere for her parents to live (and house sit while we are in Australia).

The land she has said cannot be "put in the bank" or borrow money against it, no mortgage. I wanted to do some research and asked her to write what she meant it Thai which is โฉนดที่ดิน - so I assume it doesn't have a title.

Is this common and how does it effect things, will this stop us from perhaps opening a shop / restaurant on the land or use it for other commercial use. Can the land be taken off us if the government chooses? I will of course seek some proper legal advise if this becomes a more likely reality but I thought starting somewhere like here could arm me with some more information before I go asking more questions and looking over paperwork etc.

Thanks a lot of advance for any help or if you can help point me in the right direction!

[trogers]

What is written in Thai above simply means title deed to the land - chanote ti din.

It does not explain anything more. Could be there isn't any to begin with, meaning illegal squatting, or the title deed is held by a creditor.

[RobAussie]

Not a problem, I've had a read of the below which was quite informative;

http://usa.siam-legal.com/property-thailand/title-deeds.php

I guess I need to now simply find out what title deed is being sold with the property to asses the safety of the purchase?

[uthaithanirules]

I assume you are working back in Australia, thus main income comes from there

I wouldnt bother with farming, for much of a profit anyway, in Thailand, or as the "plan" for retirement

Calculate the percentage your super is going to compound at versus even just renting a place for her family

In Aus, your super will probably compound at on average 10% a year after tax and all costs, whereas farming land especially in Thailand....well

Or put it another way, you have half a mill in super, thats AUD$50,000 at 10% a year it earns,,,,,100,000 baht a month compared to lucky if the parents would make more than 10% of that in profit from the farming.

Really, why bother?

[RobAussie]

I assume you are working back in Australia, thus main income comes from there

I wouldnt bother with farming, for much of a profit anyway, in Thailand, or as the "plan" for retirement

Calculate the percentage your super is going to compound at versus even just renting a place for her family

In Aus, your super will probably compound at on average 10% a year after tax and all costs, whereas farming land especially in Thailand....well

Or put it another way, you have half a mill in super, thats AUD$50,000 at 10% a year it earns,,,,,100,000 baht a month compared to lucky if the parents would make more than 10% of that in profit from the farming.

Really, why bother?

Yep, except by Semi-retire I mean that I will still be working from Thailand on businesses in Australia and returning to visit Australia and grow those businesses. This will be our source of income, I'll have access to my super in about another 30 - 35 years, but I agree, I am doing a SMSF and certainly getting good growth there for the future.

The reason for the farming is for something to do, I grew up on a farm and have a small garden here and I enjoy growing and eating my own vegetables and herbs and all those fun things. Plus some chickens, a cow or whatever... room for the kids to ride around safely on bikes and get dirty. All that fun stuff, thinking of maybe 10 rai in total, nothing too crazy and certainly not as a money making machine!

I am sure my wife's parents though would love to grow their own corn and sell it on the side of the road and feel like they are helping. But yep, in reality any money to make this happen and to support it will come from life in Australia. I fully understand this and I appreciate the comments as it does reiterate and strengthen those thoughts in my mind.

Currently we have a small house in Thailand on some land, it was a small investment which my wife paid for most of from her job here in Australia, savings and the like. I helped as well and was involved in picking out some colors and the like. We've stayed there on our last holiday and it was nice but becomes a little crowded as it's not a big house by any stretch (3 bed / 2 bath). The land diagonally across the road and still right next to the water spot we love has recently become available for sale as their family is sick, we've been keeping our ears out for some more land to come up. It is only 55,000 baht per rai though and the way my wife described the sale of it sounded a little odd, but I am new to all this so thought I'd see if anyone had some answers with my small amount of information.

I'll get some more though and hopefully someone can help shed some light on things a little

[uthaithanirules]

Land isnt usually advertised in some parts as either the local mafia wil scoop it up, or they just dont want non locals living next door

55000 baht a rai, sounds a little suspicious though unless its i issan.

Also try and find out how much the parents owe on the land they supposedly cant use, most likely reason is the bank owns it and they owe too much.

I was like you a couple years back, but then looked into everything and was like <deleted> it, the returns on farming land in Thailand, non existant compared to other investments.

Plus when your 60 is when you really want to flash the cash, so that one of her brothers doesnt hit you over the head so that she gets the inheritance becuase there hasnt been much money coming from you otherwise

[RobAussie]

Thanks for the info! The land is about 30 mins south of Buriram in Prakhon Chai (getting close to the border of Cambodia). It is not built up, will need filling in when we want to build on it and is currently a rice farm. There is a dirt road currently but it has current plan to be sealed.

Also try and find out how much the parents owe on the land they supposedly cant use, most likely reason is the bank owns it and they owe too much.

The land my wife owns there currently, she owns 100% of the land, but we only have about 1 rai at the moment. Growing some Tomato's, Sweet Potatos, Long Beans... its certainly being used and nothing owing to the bank.

The land we are looking into purchasing is a rice farm and is certainly being used, but the people who own it (we don't know them) want to sell it as they are (supposedly) getting old and sick and want to cash out. I'll try and find out what title is being sold with the land as that'll no doubt help clear things up.

[uthaithanirules]

Yeah, forgot about the drought.

Probably is a decent time to buy.

550000 for 10 rai its only what, $22k AUD.

Great for a nice little hobby farm

But again, dont go counting much in the way of profit

[joy16]

I doubt that it has chanote if they sell at this price. I guess it is nor sor 3 or sor por kor land.

[kamalabob2]

Water and electricity should never be taken for granted. Growing any sort of crop without access to cheap or free government water is a challenge. You need electricity in the meter size of 15/45 to live a modern lifestyle with more than one bedroom. I sure would go in person and check with the local PEA about exactly what costs would be for electrical service of the sort you need. Same deal with the PWA for water options and costs. Checking the land title is crucial in my opinion.