Immigration police to tighten visa overstaying from March 20

[PT4]

​

(deleted by poster -- revised below)

Edited March 15, 2016 by PT4

[PT4]

Today Phrom Pong BKK. Same as a few weeks ago.

​

​Ikv - Would be useful to know the circumstances: Time of day or night? Inside BTS station or on the street? How were you dressed: English teacher, Khaosan backpacker, or Emporium shopper? Where you with Thai young lady or alone. Etc.

Reason for asking is I'm sure there are some "preventive measures" we can take to avoid their attention, but need to analyze the problem first.

[billd766]

AFAIR from a couple of months ago I went to the Immigration office in Nakhon Sawan with my passport and previous 90 day report. They put my passport into a scanner and that updated the computer which printed out the 90 report form. All I did was sign their copy and it was done.

Perhaps I could have done it by post or possibly by going online. By post I would need to send a copy of my passport and a copy of the last 90 report. On line I have no idea.

In any case either the original or a copy of the passport needs to be seen, so if you are on overstay and have no current visa in your passport then you cannot do a 90 day report either.

I had no visa only extension of stay in my passport and either they didn't check their own computer or did that after they gave me back the passport. Annoying that they didn't pick it up, but it did happen

How long ago was that?

At Nakhon Sawan the computer checks have been running for me than a year now.

2008/2009 Bangkok. I resigned from my job in September. My employer told me that I was good to stay until the extension ended in February. I believed them without knowing the laws. Did 90 day report in December with no problem, then only in February when I was applying to extend was I told that I was on overstay from October.

Unless something has changed and I doubt it, then 90 days reports are not cross checked against anything. In effect they are pointless.

A few years back life was a little easier. Nowadays however it is more difficult.

To get a visa extension I have to present my passport and they scan it so they should know if I have been in and out of Thailand so I may not have needed a 90 day report. When I get an extension I also get a 90 day report date and I am 90 odd % sure that the system will flag up my last report (or not). At that point the Immigration staff will do something like telling me that I haven't done a 90 day report for a while and I will most probably be fined.

I don't think (at this point in time anyway) the failure to make a 90 day report will get you onto somebodies sh1t list, however the more they integrate and computerise the system the harder it will become NOT to play the game according to their rules, and in time they maybe will introduce new laws to make it more difficult to stay illegally. Conversely greater integration and computer work "should" make life a bit easier IF you are legal all the the way.

2 things.

1 These are only my thoughts and opinions

2 YMMV

[lkv]

Today Phrom Pong BKK. Same as a few weeks ago.

​

​Ikv - Would be useful to know the circumstances: Time of day or night? Inside BTS station or on the street? How were you dressed: English teacher, Khaosan backpacker, or Emporium shopper? Where you with Thai young lady or alone. Etc.

Reason for asking is I'm sure there are some "preventive measures" we can take to avoid their attention, but need to analyze the problem first.

The problem will go away by itself at some point i hope.

Alone, 3PM, on the street, short pants tshirt backpack. Clothes bought at Emporium prices, not Singha singlets and flipflops.

But yeah, I'm not going to start to wear long jeans now because of them.

But it's not that, it's just both the areas I am talking about(Emporium and Asok to Nana) are covered by Thonglo police station, and they have a reputation of going as far as stopping people on the street in the past taking urine tests back in 2014.

I thought for a second I'm attracting them, but then again I have been in Bangkok for 5 years and I was never ever stopped up until about 2 years ago the first time.

I think it may also have to do with the age but I can't change that lol.

[PT4]

both the areas I am talking about(Emporium and Asok to Nana) are covered by Thonglo police station, and they have a reputation of going as far as stopping people on the street in the past taking urine tests back in 2014.

Thank you, Ikv, for further details.

Thonglo jurisdiction: very good point. I would not have thought of that.

[dageurreotype]

So if you overstay for one day and then you get your passport checked that day yoy will get banned for five years?

Seems a but harsh if that is true

But i suppose it's there rules (even if the Pepole making the rules are unelected)

I messed up once years ago its easy done, I just paid 500THB when I left

But if I made the same error now and I have my passport checked before I leave I could be banned for five years

Also if my memory is correct didn’t they change it to if you overstay for one day it was no charge, but if you overstay for 2 days it was a 1000THB and the 1500THB for 3 days and so on, is that not the case now?

Possible under the rules but unlikely. I'm sure immigration will have a certain amount of discretion and I would imagine that people caught on short overstays will be treated the same as they are now. However that is.

They don't charge for an overstay less than 24 hours at the airport but you do get charged at land borders.

The law currently allows for someone to be in prisoned for up to 2 years for a 1 day overstay, but that doesn't happen even for long overstays (that I know of). And immigration could charge any overstayer 20,000 baht, but they don't. So I doubt they are going to start getting heavy handed on people that overstay a few days. IMO if you get caught with over a week there's a good chance you'll get a ban.

Oh enough already. Anyone on 'overstay' UP TO 90 DAYS will still be able to go to the airport and hand over 20k, as per. Anyone OVER 90 DAYS will be banished from the country, as per scale, they say.

Why hasn't this been put to bed/nipped in the bud before now? Another forum with an actual credible link managed it. However, they appear to be not so concerned with 'hits'

[sunnyjim5]

So if you overstay for one day and then you get your passport checked that day yoy will get banned for five years?

Seems a but harsh if that is true

But i suppose it's there rules (even if the Pepole making the rules are unelected)

I messed up once years ago its easy done, I just paid 500THB when I left

But if I made the same error now and I have my passport checked before I leave I could be banned for five years

Also if my memory is correct didn’t they change it to if you overstay for one day it was no charge, but if you overstay for 2 days it was a 1000THB and the 1500THB for 3 days and so on, is that not the case now?

Possible under the rules but unlikely. I'm sure immigration will have a certain amount of discretion and I would imagine that people caught on short overstays will be treated the same as they are now. However that is.

They don't charge for an overstay less than 24 hours at the airport but you do get charged at land borders.

The law currently allows for someone to be in prisoned for up to 2 years for a 1 day overstay, but that doesn't happen even for long overstays (that I know of). And immigration could charge any overstayer 20,000 baht, but they don't. So I doubt they are going to start getting heavy handed on people that overstay a few days. IMO if you get caught with over a week there's a good chance you'll get a ban.

Oh enough already. Anyone on 'overstay' UP TO 90 DAYS will still be able to go to the airport and hand over 20k, as per. Anyone OVER 90 DAYS will be banished from the country, as per scale, they say.

Why hasn't this been put to bed/nipped in the bud before now? Another forum with an actual credible link managed it. However, they appear to be not so concerned with 'hits'

The "trick" is to get to the airport without being arrested !

[dageurreotype]

So if you overstay for one day and then you get your passport checked that day yoy will get banned for five years?

Seems a but harsh if that is true

But i suppose it's there rules (even if the Pepole making the rules are unelected)

I messed up once years ago its easy done, I just paid 500THB when I left

But if I made the same error now and I have my passport checked before I leave I could be banned for five years

Also if my memory is correct didn’t they change it to if you overstay for one day it was no charge, but if you overstay for 2 days it was a 1000THB and the 1500THB for 3 days and so on, is that not the case now?

Possible under the rules but unlikely. I'm sure immigration will have a certain amount of discretion and I would imagine that people caught on short overstays will be treated the same as they are now. However that is.

They don't charge for an overstay less than 24 hours at the airport but you do get charged at land borders.

The law currently allows for someone to be in prisoned for up to 2 years for a 1 day overstay, but that doesn't happen even for long overstays (that I know of). And immigration could charge any overstayer 20,000 baht, but they don't. So I doubt they are going to start getting heavy handed on people that overstay a few days. IMO if you get caught with over a week there's a good chance you'll get a ban.

Oh enough already. Anyone on 'overstay' UP TO 90 DAYS will still be able to go to the airport and hand over 20k, as per. Anyone OVER 90 DAYS will be banished from the country, as per scale, they say.

Why hasn't this been put to bed/nipped in the bud before now? Another forum with an actual credible link managed it. However, they appear to be not so concerned with 'hits'

The "trick" is to get to the airport without being arrested !

Oh don't be so bloody stupid. How many times you been stopped on the way to an airport? Paranoid much?

[elviajero]

So if you overstay for one day and then you get your passport checked that day yoy will get banned for five years?

Seems a but harsh if that is true

But i suppose it's there rules (even if the Pepole making the rules are unelected)

I messed up once years ago its easy done, I just paid 500THB when I left

But if I made the same error now and I have my passport checked before I leave I could be banned for five years

Also if my memory is correct didn’t they change it to if you overstay for one day it was no charge, but if you overstay for 2 days it was a 1000THB and the 1500THB for 3 days and so on, is that not the case now?

Possible under the rules but unlikely. I'm sure immigration will have a certain amount of discretion and I would imagine that people caught on short overstays will be treated the same as they are now. However that is.

They don't charge for an overstay less than 24 hours at the airport but you do get charged at land borders.

The law currently allows for someone to be in prisoned for up to 2 years for a 1 day overstay, but that doesn't happen even for long overstays (that I know of). And immigration could charge any overstayer 20,000 baht, but they don't. So I doubt they are going to start getting heavy handed on people that overstay a few days. IMO if you get caught with over a week there's a good chance you'll get a ban.

Oh enough already. Anyone on 'overstay' UP TO 90 DAYS will still be able to go to the airport and hand over 20k, as per. Anyone OVER 90 DAYS will be banished from the country, as per scale, they say.

Why hasn't this been put to bed/nipped in the bud before now? Another forum with an actual credible link managed it. However, they appear to be not so concerned with 'hits'

Thats not what the rules say.

You seem confident in your assertion. No one knows yet how things will play out for people arrested/prosecuted with less than 90 days, including you!

[chrisinth]

So if you overstay for one day and then you get your passport checked that day yoy will get banned for five years?

Seems a but harsh if that is true

But i suppose it's there rules (even if the Pepole making the rules are unelected)

I messed up once years ago its easy done, I just paid 500THB when I left

But if I made the same error now and I have my passport checked before I leave I could be banned for five years

Also if my memory is correct didn’t they change it to if you overstay for one day it was no charge, but if you overstay for 2 days it was a 1000THB and the 1500THB for 3 days and so on, is that not the case now?

Possible under the rules but unlikely. I'm sure immigration will have a certain amount of discretion and I would imagine that people caught on short overstays will be treated the same as they are now. However that is.

They don't charge for an overstay less than 24 hours at the airport but you do get charged at land borders.

The law currently allows for someone to be in prisoned for up to 2 years for a 1 day overstay, but that doesn't happen even for long overstays (that I know of). And immigration could charge any overstayer 20,000 baht, but they don't. So I doubt they are going to start getting heavy handed on people that overstay a few days. IMO if you get caught with over a week there's a good chance you'll get a ban.

Oh enough already. Anyone on 'overstay' UP TO 90 DAYS will still be able to go to the airport and hand over 20k, as per. Anyone OVER 90 DAYS will be banished from the country, as per scale, they say.

Why hasn't this been put to bed/nipped in the bud before now? Another forum with an actual credible link managed it. However, they appear to be not so concerned with 'hits'

Happy for you that you are so optimistically convinced on this issue...............................

However, AFIK this has not been officially confirmed anywhere by the powers that be. Why 90 days?

For sure there will be a leeway period, it would be unworkable without one.

If i was in the position of having an overstay situation, i would be very, very uneasy after 40 days, with 40 days being the limit for 500 baht daily fines reaching the 20,000.

Never have believed in random numbers......................................

[dageurreotype]

So if you overstay for one day and then you get your passport checked that day yoy will get banned for five years?

Seems a but harsh if that is true

But i suppose it's there rules (even if the Pepole making the rules are unelected)

I messed up once years ago its easy done, I just paid 500THB when I left

But if I made the same error now and I have my passport checked before I leave I could be banned for five years

Also if my memory is correct didn’t they change it to if you overstay for one day it was no charge, but if you overstay for 2 days it was a 1000THB and the 1500THB for 3 days and so on, is that not the case now?

Possible under the rules but unlikely. I'm sure immigration will have a certain amount of discretion and I would imagine that people caught on short overstays will be treated the same as they are now. However that is.

They don't charge for an overstay less than 24 hours at the airport but you do get charged at land borders.

The law currently allows for someone to be in prisoned for up to 2 years for a 1 day overstay, but that doesn't happen even for long overstays (that I know of). And immigration could charge any overstayer 20,000 baht, but they don't. So I doubt they are going to start getting heavy handed on people that overstay a few days. IMO if you get caught with over a week there's a good chance you'll get a ban.

Oh enough already. Anyone on 'overstay' UP TO 90 DAYS will still be able to go to the airport and hand over 20k, as per. Anyone OVER 90 DAYS will be banished from the country, as per scale, they say.

Why hasn't this been put to bed/nipped in the bud before now? Another forum with an actual credible link managed it. However, they appear to be not so concerned with 'hits'

Happy for you that you are so optimistically convinced on this issue...............................

However, AFIK this has not been officially confirmed anywhere by the powers that be. Why 90 days?

For sure there will be a leeway period, it would be unworkable without one.

If i was in the position of having an overstay situation, i would be very, very uneasy after 40 days, with 40 days being the limit for 500 baht daily fines reaching the 20,000.

Never have believed in random numbers......................................

Here is a link to the official announcement. Read.it.wery.wery.carefully. Duh. http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/news/immigration-gets-stricter-good-guys-in-bad-guys-out/

BTW, interesting that on that f o rum it's buried 3 pages down with just one positive response. Unlike the usual disinformation, condemnation and panicking nellies on here

[baneko]

I did a 94 day overstay in 2013....my passport was in Luanda awaiting a visa....will never do that again...now always above board with the correct visa....its not worth it.

[elviajero]

Possible under the rules but unlikely. I'm sure immigration will have a certain amount of discretion and I would imagine that people caught on short overstays will be treated the same as they are now. However that is.

They don't charge for an overstay less than 24 hours at the airport but you do get charged at land borders.

The law currently allows for someone to be in prisoned for up to 2 years for a 1 day overstay, but that doesn't happen even for long overstays (that I know of). And immigration could charge any overstayer 20,000 baht, but they don't. So I doubt they are going to start getting heavy handed on people that overstay a few days. IMO if you get caught with over a week there's a good chance you'll get a ban.

Oh enough already. Anyone on 'overstay' UP TO 90 DAYS will still be able to go to the airport and hand over 20k, as per. Anyone OVER 90 DAYS will be banished from the country, as per scale, they say.

Why hasn't this been put to bed/nipped in the bud before now? Another forum with an actual credible link managed it. However, they appear to be not so concerned with 'hits'

Happy for you that you are so optimistically convinced on this issue...............................

However, AFIK this has not been officially confirmed anywhere by the powers that be. Why 90 days?

For sure there will be a leeway period, it would be unworkable without one.

If i was in the position of having an overstay situation, i would be very, very uneasy after 40 days, with 40 days being the limit for 500 baht daily fines reaching the 20,000.

Never have believed in random numbers......................................

Here is a link to the official announcement. Read.it.wery.wery.carefully. Duh. http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/news/immigration-gets-stricter-good-guys-in-bad-guys-out/

BTW, interesting that on that f o rum it's buried 3 pages down with just one positive response. Unlike the usual disinformation, condemnation and panicking nellies on here

I read it carefully and it says the same as the actual official announcement. It says that anyone arrested and prosecuted with an overstay of less than 1 year will be banned for 5 years.

"Alien Being Arrested and Prosecuted:

3.5 An alien who is caught overstaying less than 1 year beyond his/her permitted date will be banned from re-entering the country for 5 years, starting from the departure date."

Less than 1 year includes 1 day, 1 week, 1 month etc. People get arrested, prosecuted and deported with overstays less than 90 days so why is that going to change. The only question at the moment is how the court/immigration will deal with a short overstay in relation to the ban. Other than that it's business as usual.

Edited March 15, 2016 by elviajero

[chrisinth]

@ dageurreotype (can't trim down your post #101 to reply direct)

Apologies, I hadn't seen, or if I had, hadn't noticed the wording on the poster below.

I would read that as saying 90 days grace, unless you are stopped for something and your passport is checked.

Humble me.........................

[Maestro]

I read it carefully and it says the same as the actual official announcement. It says that anyone arrested and prosecuted with an overstay of less than 1 year will be banned for 5 years.

"Alien Being Arrested and Prosecuted:[/size]

3.5 An alien who is caught overstaying less than 1 year beyond his/her permitted date will be banned from re-entering the country for 5 years, starting from the departure date."

Less than 1 year includes 1 day, 1 week, 1 month etc. People get arrested, prosecuted and deported with overstays less than 90 days so why is that going to change. The only question at the moment is how the court/immigration will deal with a short overstay in relation to the ban. Other than that it's business as usual.

I see the Order of the Minister of Interior No. 1/2558 with the title "Classes of Aliens Inadmissible for Admission to the Kingdom of Thailand" to be the officially published document on this matter. Publication was made in the Government Gazette dated 21 December 2015, page 42.

Everything looking official that came before that were announcements based on internal government documents that led to this Ministerial Order. Everything that came after it are announcements to spread the knowledge of the Ministerial Order. The Government Gazette is in Thai, of course, and if you wish to read it follow the link Ministerial Order 1/2558 overstay ban - th. For an English translation of it, go here: Ministerial Order 1/2558 overstay ban - en

After reading it, we can all lean back and wait to see how this Ministerial Order is going to be implemented in real life. How long, after midnight tomorrow, will the first case of a foreigner leaving Thailand with an overstay deserving a ban under the new Orfer be posted on Thaivisa?

[Maestro]

The wording of neither the English translation nor the original Thai text of the Ministerial Order 1/2558 seems to give immigration officials any discretion not to impose the period of blacklisting specified in the Order, yet Immigration Bureau commissioner Pol Lt Natthorn Prohsunthorn has been quoted as saying that "the tougher law enforcement was intended to tackle foreigners entering the country illegally, working without work permits, and transnational criminals, while those entering legally and work legally won’t be affected."

As stated in the Order, it was issued "under section 16 of Immigration Act, B.E, 2522", so let us look at that section:

Section 16 : In the instance where for reason of national welfare or safeguarding the public peace ,

culture , morality , or welfare , or when the Minister considers it improper to allow any alien or any group

of alien to enter into the Kingdom , the Minister shall have power to exclude said alien or group aliens

from entering into the Kingdom.

It seems logical that when blacklisting a foreigner, immigration has to enter a reason for it in the database and from the above they will have the choice of the following:

1. national welfare
2. safeguarding the public peace
3. safeguarding culture
4. safeguarding morality
5. safeguarding welfare
6. the Minister considers it improper to allow any alien or any group of aliens to enter into the Kingdom

That's where the authority to exercise discretion in issuing a blacklist can be derived from. If immigration concludes that none of the above reasons apply to the overstaying foreigner, they can or must refrain from blacklisting him.

[Maestro]

The big day has come and the discussion is continuing in this new topic:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?/topic/904348-Major-new-crackdown-on-visa-overstay-in-Thailand-starts-today