Why are flights going West so much more expensive?

[MaeJoMTB]

Return from CNX to BKK to the UK (LHR) in May/June cheapest return 500gbp (without 10hs of stopovers in China)

But a return from the UK (LHR) to BKK to CNX is only 360gbp.

Edited March 12, 2016 by MaeJoMTB

[South]

... More westernerners doing return flights from the west or the extra hour east to west or just a rip off. Take your pick.

[taotoo]

Because they charge what people will pay, not per mile. Google airline pricing algorithm.

[TheCruncher]

I don't know the answer why it changed, but about 10 - 15 years ago it was just the other way around.

[kingalfred]

Technically it should be more expensive from Europe, especially in the UK with these so called bullshit carbon green taxes, introduced (falsely)to stop folk using air flights,but in effect just extorting more money as Governments are particularly good at in EU!

[i claudius]

I reckon its because so many ordinary people fly abroad in the west ,while only the well off fly on holiday from Thailand,so they charge more

[KhunBENQ]

I reckon its because so many ordinary people fly abroad in the west ,while only the well off fly on holiday from Thailand,so they charge more

One of the possible explanations.

The planes are filled with return travelers from outside Thailand.

The hubs/headquarters are in Europe/Gulf region/USA etc.

Thailand tourism to remote destinations is still very small and fills only a small part of these return flights.

Why compete for a small market?

Require what you can get.

But over the years I feel like the situation has improved.

Edited March 12, 2016 by KhunBENQ

[MaeJoMTB]

Oh well, bit the bullet and paid the 500gbp.

Return ticket,

94gbp for the airline, 406gbp in taxes

[TheCruncher]

Oh well, bit the bullet and paid the 500gbp.

Return ticket,

94gbp for the airline, 406gbp in taxes

Could you post a screenshot of that, because I think now you're exaggerating about the amount of taxes included in the price.

[BuaBS]

It's a terrible thing. Promotions from europe 450 euro . Never promotions from Bangkok, and a return starting at 800 euro.

And why should 2 one way ticket cost more than a return ticket? Airlines : the flying mafia.

[NeverSure]

Enter the pilot, LOL. It could be supply and demand BUT it could be due to the jet stream. Planes simply have to buck that wind. For instance it might take as much as 2 hours longer on a long flight going East to West than in the other direction. We measure time in ground speed but the plane is limited to its airspeed. If it's going 500 mph into a 500 mph headwind its ground speed will be zero. It's going nowhere. OTOH in the other direction it would have a tailwind and would be going 500 mph airspeed and 1,000 mph, ground speed. Winds exaggerated for example, of course.

There is also the rotation of the earth. If you are on a 24 hour flight the earth will rotate once. Depending on whether the plane is flying with or against the earth's rotation, its ground speed will be faster or slower.

I've never been involved in assessing ticket prices but I do know that the cost of operating a plane is always expressed as X $ per hour.

I really have no idea if any of the above is figured into prices. I just know the phenomena exist.

Fun to think about, anyway.

Cheers.

[MaeJoMTB]

Oh well, bit the bullet and paid the 500gbp.

Return ticket,

94gbp for the airline, 406gbp in taxes

Could you post a screenshot of that, because I think now you're exaggerating about the amount of taxes included in the price.

Here ya go ........

An extra 1.90 for SMS, 1.00 booking fee, 10.13 CC fee.

Edited March 13, 2016 by MaeJoMTB

[MaeJoMTB]

I've never been involved in assessing ticket prices but I do know that the cost of operating a plane is always expressed as X $ per hour.

As the total return flight is only charged at 94gbp for the airline, I would think the fuel costs wouldn't affect much.

Edited March 13, 2016 by MaeJoMTB

[CNXBKKMAN]

The airfare part of it is so low nowadays because about 10 years ago a lot of airlines decided to move the fuel cost out of the airfare part. On the above costing lets just say its 200gbp of that 409. If the fuel part was included in the airfare part that would have come to 294.

Now if you ticket was 50% non refundable if you cancelled, in the old days you may got 50% of 294. Today if you have the same cancellation conditions you only get 50% of 94. So you get 47 pounds back but there is a 30 pound cancellation admin charge so you get 17 pounds back on the original 503 pound ticket.

[MaeJoMTB]

^^

According to the fine print only fuel surcharges are included in the taxes and charges.

Which should be Zero at the moment.

[KittenKong]

Technically it should be more expensive from Europe, especially in the UK with these so called bullshit carbon green taxes, introduced (falsely)to stop folk using air flights,but in effect just extorting more money as Governments are particularly good at in EU!

On a return flight the APD and airport taxes are the same, regardless of where you start. Only the VAT/sales tax will change, depending on where you buy the ticket.

[KittenKong]

Oh well, bit the bullet and paid the 500gbp.

Return ticket,

94gbp for the airline, 406gbp in taxes

Something odd there.

I recently bought a business class ticket, on which the APD is higher. This is the breakdown:

1 adult(s) x 28,595.00 (flight) + 23,245.00 (taxes) =

51,840.00 THB

Adult traveller(s) Carrier imposed surcharge(YQAC) 12,770.00 THB Tax description unavailable (E7AD) 35.00 THB Tax description unavailable (E7AP) 35.00 THB PASSENGER SERVICE CHARGE (PSC-TS) (INTERNATIONAL) 700.00 THB APD AIR PASSENGER DUTY 7,550.00 THB PASSENGER SERVICE CHARGE FOR UNITED KINGDOM(DISEMB) 2,155.00 THB Total government taxes & fees and carrier imposed fees & surcharges 23,245.00 THB 23,245.00 THB x 1 adult(s) = 23,245.00 THB total taxes = 23,245.00 THB

[CNXBKKMAN]

Oh well, bit the bullet and paid the 500gbp.

Return ticket,

94gbp for the airline, 406gbp in taxes

Something odd there.

I recently bought a business class ticket, on which the APD is higher. This is the breakdown:

1 adult(s) x 28,595.00 (flight) + 23,245.00 (taxes) =

51,840.00 THB

Adult traveller(s) Carrier imposed surcharge(YQAC) 12,770.00 THB Tax description unavailable (E7AD) 35.00 THB Tax description unavailable (E7AP) 35.00 THB PASSENGER SERVICE CHARGE (PSC-TS) (INTERNATIONAL) 700.00 THB APD AIR PASSENGER DUTY 7,550.00 THB PASSENGER SERVICE CHARGE FOR UNITED KINGDOM(DISEMB) 2,155.00 THB Total government taxes & fees and carrier imposed fees & surcharges 23,245.00 THB 23,245.00 THB x 1 adult(s) = 23,245.00 THB total taxes = 23,245.00 THB

YQ 12770thb is the fuel part of the total. This bit goes up and down with price of oil but only after a significant change occurs and then there may be 2 week lag before its implemented. Business class UK APD is higher than the economy APD.

[KittenKong]

^^^ I'm aware of that. Indeed I mentioned it.

But there is still something not right about that original tax/flight breakdown quoted.

[chiang mai]

As discussed and agreed countless times previously on TVF, the price difference results from supply and demand factors. Greater demand and greater competition out of London for say LHR/BKK than out of BKK for BKK/LHR.

[KittenKong]

As discussed and agreed countless times previously on TVF, the price difference results from supply and demand factors. Greater demand and greater competition out of London for say LHR/BKK than out of BKK for BKK/LHR.

That may account for part of it, but not all.

After all, regardless of where you buy your ticket and start your journey the return flight is made up of exactly the same two legs, just in a different order. So this makes no difference to loading and the airline.

I suspect that part of the reason for higher prices here is that tickets here are paid for in THB which is a fairly useless currency for any non-Thai airline to hold. I also suspect that government sales taxes may play some part in it (there is no VAT on air tickets sold in the EU).

[chiang mai]

As discussed and agreed countless times previously on TVF, the price difference results from supply and demand factors. Greater demand and greater competition out of London for say LHR/BKK than out of BKK for BKK/LHR.

That may account for part of it, but not all.

After all, regardless of where you buy your ticket and start your journey the return flight is made up of exactly the same two legs, just in a different order. So this makes no difference to loading and the airline.

I suspect that part of the reason for higher prices here is that tickets here are paid for in THB which is a fairly useless currency for any non-Thai airline to hold. I also suspect that government sales taxes may play some part in it (there is no VAT on air tickets sold in the EU).

From previous discussions on this subject supply/demand and competition are the major reasons, payment currency is not a factor since many tickets are bought on line and overseas and paid for in currencies other than THB. Competition out of the UK comes first where there is substantial choice of carriers who must have the UK on their schedules, much more so than carriers needing to have Bangkok on them. Also, flight legs are not always the same, some airlines will fly London/BKK and onwards without an exact same return, it's not mirrored and doesn't have to be. Finally passenger loading or so I'm told is greater out of London than out of BKK, BKK being a stop over or intermediary point rather than a destination of similar scale, in it's own right, think transit to China, Australia etc.

[DrDave]

Enter the pilot, LOL. It could be supply and demand BUT it could be due to the jet stream. Planes simply have to buck that wind. For instance it might take as much as 2 hours longer on a long flight going East to West than in the other direction. We measure time in ground speed but the plane is limited to its airspeed. If it's going 500 mph into a 500 mph headwind its ground speed will be zero. It's going nowhere. OTOH in the other direction it would have a tailwind and would be going 500 mph airspeed and 1,000 mph, ground speed. Winds exaggerated for example, of course.

There is also the rotation of the earth. If you are on a 24 hour flight the earth will rotate once. Depending on whether the plane is flying with or against the earth's rotation, its ground speed will be faster or slower.

I've never been involved in assessing ticket prices but I do know that the cost of operating a plane is always expressed as X $ per hour.

I really have no idea if any of the above is figured into prices. I just know the phenomena exist.

Fun to think about, anyway.

Cheers.

This makes sense for a one-way booking, except that the price difference quoted was for "return" bookings, which in American speak is "round trip". So, regardless of whether the round trip starts in Bangkok or London, one leg will generally have a headwind, while the other has a tailwind.

I think the real answer as to why the airline charges a higher fare if the round trip originates in BKK as opposed to LHR is simply "because they can".

[RabC]

Enter the pilot, LOL. It could be supply and demand BUT it could be due to the jet stream. Planes simply have to buck that wind. For instance it might take as much as 2 hours longer on a long flight going East to West than in the other direction. We measure time in ground speed but the plane is limited to its airspeed. If it's going 500 mph into a 500 mph headwind its ground speed will be zero. It's going nowhere. OTOH in the other direction it would have a tailwind and would be going 500 mph airspeed and 1,000 mph, ground speed. Winds exaggerated for example, of course.

There is also the rotation of the earth. If you are on a 24 hour flight the earth will rotate once. Depending on whether the plane is flying with or against the earth's rotation, its ground speed will be faster or slower.

I've never been involved in assessing ticket prices but I do know that the cost of operating a plane is always expressed as X $ per hour.

I really have no idea if any of the above is figured into prices. I just know the phenomena exist.

Fun to think about, anyway.

Cheers.

This makes sense for a one-way booking, except that the price difference quoted was for "return" bookings, which in American speak is "round trip". So, regardless of whether the round trip starts in Bangkok or London, one leg will generally have a headwind, while the other has a tailwind.

I think the real answer as to why the airline charges a higher fare if the round trip originates in BKK as opposed to LHR is simply "because they can".

Most sensible answer to date.

[gandalf12]

Partly to do with landing, taxiing fees. In the West they are considerably higher than at most airports in South East Asia

[DrDave]

Partly to do with landing, taxiing fees. In the West they are considerably higher than at most airports in South East Asia

Again, with a round-trip, the plane will be taking off and landing at the same airports regardless of where the trip originates, so the total landing fees will be the same. Only the sequence is different.

[chiang mai]

Partly to do with landing, taxiing fees. In the West they are considerably higher than at most airports in South East Asia

Um, er, the plane that takes off from London, lands in Bangkok, takes off again and lands back in London performs the same number of take offs and landing in the two locations as the flight flying the reverse route.

[Canuk23]

It's a terrible thing. Promotions from europe 450 euro . Never promotions from Bangkok, and a return starting at 800 euro.

And why should 2 one way ticket cost more than a return ticket? Airlines : the flying mafia.

Because in the case of one way tickets they are not sure you will return with them, return tickets guaranty's your return with them.

[fxe1200]

..........."

There is also the rotation of the earth. If you are on a 24 hour flight the earth will rotate once. Depending on whether the plane is flying with or against the earth's rotation, its ground speed will be faster or slower."

I love that one!!!!

[Kabula]

The tax in many cases make the difference or it used to. Always look at the tax when making a decision. I got so disgusted with the tax years ago; I retired here and have not been on an airplane in 4 years. In the news all you see now is engine fires, out of control passengers that belong in mental institutions/rehab, young, incompetent pilots on crash investigation sites, angry flight attendants with attitude, long lines, landing gear failures, tarmac collisions, a missing plane they can't even find, hours locked in a plane on a tarmac with no water or food after flying half a day. Not to mention the insane, airport security inspections in some countries. I would rather be at the beach walking around enjoying the sun and sites with beautiful women everywhere!