From 'welcome' to 'enough' - Europe's migrant view shifts

[Steely Dan]

EU has finally realised what a mess they have created.

Let me rephrase that for you.

The people of the EU, at this point in time, specifically the people of Germany, have spoken about the mess that the EU / Merkel have created.

The beaurocrats of the EU have learned nothing, that is why Merkel has just thrown another euro 3 Billion at Turkey.

There is nothing for them to learn, save for they can't get away with mass immigration at current levels without facing mass civil insurrection. You can be sure the EU will try again after passing draconian laws to prevent opposition to their plans, after all no amount of evidence that a plan is insane will dissuade an ideologue.

[connda]

What is wrong anyway with Muslims in our countries as long they are willing to be integrated and follow our laws?

sorry ... most don't want to intergrate, they will relocate and say they like their new home and agree to follow the local customs and laws but in reality this is only said to ensure they can stay. Then the cousin will be told to come and the brothers family and so on ....

most hate Christians, they will join together and dispel and christian values, they can't be trusted and as the koran states that we are infadels and non believers.

That's what's wrong with them in any other country but a Muslim country .....

Have you ever read the Koran?? And where does it say that?

You should stay on topic but if you are going to suggest something it should be true:

2:191/193

2:216

2:244

9:5

al Baqara, 218, al Imran 195, al Nisa 89, al Nisa 100, al Anfal 72, al Anfal 74, al Tawba 20, al Nahl 41, 110, al Hajj 58, al Ankabut 26, al Ahzahb 50, al Hashr 9, al Mumtahana 10

The underlying beliefs of those arriving in Europe are alien to Europeans but not understanding something does not make it untrue. The religion of the majority of arrivals is decidedly supremacist, making clear allowances for the preferred- those who believe- and clear admonishment and punishment for the other- all others. The entire culture and religion of the majority of these people is based on the migration narrative of their origin. It was only through migration that they survived, grew strong, and were then able to conquer. The migration/hirj is the second core tenet behind there is only one god and one messenger and that is... migration is the core vessel that its eschatology is exercised. Its everywhere.

"Have you ever read" this book? Above are a few places it says "that."

The reason that Europe is having trouble now is the same reason that every other culture in the history of the world has had trouble until they either repulsed this underlying ideology or succumbed in conversion or subjugation (conversion and subjugation also being two scriptural injunctions for the underlying ideology). I am unsure it is hate for these people as much as it is disconnect from what their books teach them. The scriptures teach quite clearly about possessing women with your "right hand" and booty and bounty and slaves and dhimmis and taxes and... and in reality much of the muslim population looks around at the reality of the modern world and they do not see slaves and booty and sex slaves and dhimmis and they do not get paid the tax by non muslims.

The disconnect is quite loud for young, testosterone driven men from these regions who are inculcated every single day, at least 5 times/day, that they are special above all others, that non believers have especially transgressed against their god, and the very real, very physical, very now and here fruits of this world are theirs for the taking. Their books state such things on nearly every... page! But it is no where to be found in reality; so they take it. This difference is reconciled by the acting out across the EU in the predictable manner we see it. Is anyone really surprised letting millions of angry muslim men into EU or giving unrestricted visa to 75 million Turks is a good idea?

No one should be surprised. DEASH is not surprised. al Qawdari is not surprised. Qaddafi would not be surprised. Erdogan is not surprised. The only people who are surprised are those who think they live in an alternate reality and all cultural mores are equal.

Very nice reply. Kudos.

It's so simple for the uninformed to toss a supposively paternalistic question into the mix, looking for an equally uninformed and clueless answer. But that is working less often nowadays as many Westerns are educating themselves. Presupposing that a non-Muslim would never actually wade into the Sira, Hadith, and Koran might have held water, even up to a few years ago, but one thing the mass immigration and subsequent social problems that have surface have been a catalyst for, and that is to motivate non-Muslims to learn exactly what Islam is and is not, and prepare/act accordingly. The ignorant¹ will either continue to plead that we must just "all get along", which is simply not what the political nature of Islam is about. The political nature of Islam is total domination of the non-Islamic world; 'Submission' is the only acceptable outcome. So the Muslim immigrants, unless they are secular Muslims (about 30% of Syrian Muslims are), will continue to isolate themselves from the cultures and societal norms of their host countries, and will continue to act in ways totally unacceptable to Western Judo-Christian culture. Arjunadawn understands why, I understand why, but for those in the EU who simply have had enough 'lawlessness²', these people are now simply calling for a return to a sane immigration policy.

¹I'm not using the word 'ignorant' in a negative or demeaning sense, I simply mean 'unknowledgeable'.

²Unlnowledgeable individuals would not be able to understand the political side of Islam and the concept of 'submission' outside of a religious sense that they may have read in a newspaper or periodical; but they do understand behavior that falls outside the norm of their societal/cultural values, e.g., rape is an act of lawlessness. In Islam, the rape of Kafir (non-Muslim) women is a cultural norm. So Western culture and Islamic culture can not coexist. For those who disagree with this, I suggest they dedicate themselves to the reading of the Sira, Hadith, and Koran, and their commentaries, along with studying the history of the spread of Islam over the centuries, and why is was pushed back into it's present day boundaries, well, up until recently.

Edited March 14, 2016 by connda

[arjunadawn]

Very nice reply. Kudos.

It's so simple for the uninformed to toss a supposively paternalistic question into the mix, looking for an equally uninformed and clueless answer. But that is working less often nowadays as many Westerns are educating themselves. Presupposing that a non-Muslim would never actually wade into the Sira, Hadith, and Koran might have held water, even up to a few years ago, but one thing the mass immigration and subsequent social problems that have surface have been a catalyst for, and that is to motivate non-Muslims to learn exactly what Islam is and is not, and prepare/act accordingly. The ignorant¹ will either continue to plead that we must just "all get along", which is simply not what the political nature of Islam is about. The political nature of Islam is total domination of the non-Islamic world; 'Submission' is the only acceptable outcome. So the Muslim immigrants, unless they are secular Muslims (about 30% of Syrian Muslims are), will continue to isolate themselves from the cultures and societal norms of their host countries, and will continue to act in ways totally unacceptable to Western Judo-Christian culture. Arjunadawn understands why, I understand why, but for those in the EU who simply have had enough 'lawlessness²', these people are now simply calling for a return to a sane immigration policy.

¹I'm not using the word 'ignorant' in a negative or demeaning sense, I simply mean 'unknowledgeable'.

²Unlnowledgeable individuals would not be able to understand the political side of Islam and the concept of 'submission' outside of a religious sense that they may have read in a newspaper or periodical; but they do understand behavior that falls outside the norm of their societal/cultural values, e.g., rape is an act of lawlessness. In Islam, the rape of Kafir (non-Muslim) women is a cultural norm. So Western culture and Islamic culture can not coexist. For those who disagree with this, I suggest they dedicate themselves to the reading of the Sira, Hadith, and Koran, and their commentaries, along with studying the history of the spread of Islam over the centuries, and why is was pushed back into it's present day boundaries, well, up until recently.

I think this is a great post, and not Pollyannaism because you referenced me. In this post above you sum up the problem exactly. It is a current staple of the West (US/EU) that protesting your own rape is a greater crime than the first injury. Without question this narrative is being acted out in EU exactly the way posters on TV said it would:

1. Innocent people would be raped, abused, misused, alienated, and financially leveraged to accommodate those who have zero investment in their social contract.

2. When they begin to protest this abuse State will manage numbers (Crime), media, and the narrative to isolate the politically incorrect- those injured- and make the issue about them, rather then the cultural suicide.

3. When the horrific numbers began to gather instead of conceding the error of such an insurgent agenda as replacing an entire host culture, those in power will double down.

4. The only intermediate to end results of such policies will be violence/conflict.

a. The only early results of these polices will be injuries, rapes, financial loss, debt to posterity, plunging market values.

b. The intermediate results will be vigilante acts, defensive acts, even hate acts. Further intermediate acts will be the gathering of groups for and against the agenda.

c. Finally, the end result of such policies requires violence to survive as a host or to exist as guest. Conflict is spelled over every aspect of these choices. Its so palpable as to be predictable.

There is no way on earth that a migrating muslim male population will behave any differently than it has in over 1,000 years. It is not possible that islamic migrants will genuflect to a host christian nation. These new arrivals will not... they positively will not subordinate their imported values to accommodate their host. Conflict is absolutely the only end of this civilization betrayal... this, Civilization Jihad. The OP is nevertheless misleading in that no one in authority is announcing "enough." This is fraudulent. Its the people who declare this. State is doubling down on this madness.

[Steely Dan]

I have been banging on about the danger the west faces for several years now. During that time I've come up against censorship, obfuscation, ad hominem attacks, the thought terminating cliche Islamophobia. What else? Unwarranted equivalence arguments, downplaying of the size of the problem (tiny minority), supposed misunderstanding of scripture, when thousands seem to misunderstand it in exactly the same way. Pious clueless western leaders sermonizing as to what Islam is and describing what it isn't.

If there were any doubt whatsoever that Europe's leaders aren't up to the job here is Merkel from 2010.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/oct/17/angela-merkel-german-multiculturalism-failed

So what do you do if multiculturalism (Muslim assimilation) has 'utterly failed'? Well the answer turned out to be massively increase it, or in other words strike up the band and head full tilt at the iceberg. The only surprise for me is the speed at which events have proven the right right and the left wrong.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Steely Dan

[arjunadawn]

I have been banging on about the danger the west faces for several years now. During that time I've come up against censorship, obfuscation, ad hominem attacks, the thought terminating cliche Islamophobia. What else? Unwarranted equivalence arguments, downplaying of the size of the problem (tiny minority), supposed misunderstanding of scripture, when thousands seem to misunderstand it in exactly the same way. Pious clueless western leaders sermonizing as to what Islam is and describing what it isn't.

If there were any doubt whatsoever that Europe's leaders aren't up to the job here is Merkel from 2010.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/oct/17/angela-merkel-german-multiculturalism-failed

So what do you do if multiculturalism (Muslim assimilation) has 'utterly failed'? Well the answer turned out to be massively increase it, or in other words strike up the band and head full tilt at the iceberg. The only surprise for me is the speed at which events have proven the right right and the left wrong.

The entire response to those like you (above) reminds me of the unique way certain viruses behave. No, I am not saying anyone/thing is like a virus, though that argument can be made. I am saying that where there are valid concerns or even the assertion of issues, risks, and concerns the host population (EU citizens under existing social contract) are not even permitted to ring the bell, sound the alarm, and invite others into the public forum of debate. It seems linked to the [issue] itself (uncontrolled migrant invasion) is the mechanism that no one is permitted to debate the underlying issue. It is as if the T Cells have been silenced and they cannot even race out and query the guest/antigen. T cells are helper cells. They race into the mix and determine threat/non-threat, and response.

Without the ability to sound an alarm and have a hearing on the merits of the fears/concerns, it is like a link in the host defenses is removed- the voice of the citizens. This democratic link (the voice of citizens) is the foundation of Western Plural Democracies; the ability to seek redress of grievances from representatives. In the EU (and increasingly the US) one cannot even assert the obvious abuses of illegal/migrant polices without being indicted for the very same thing one alleges of another- hate, non assimilation, anti social behavior, ulterior motive. Offering the observation that you are hated is itself an indictment of hating another. Thus, in Germany, Switzerland, Denmark and increasingly EU in general raising the assertion that "this is all wrong" is tantamount to hate speech.

The underlying issue remains unresolved; or is it? Can multiculturalism work? Can it work if it requires A, B, C? Or, does it not work with or without caveats?

First, the definition: Regardless of the approach to these questions it must be stipulated that multiculturalism is social engineering. Like it? Don't like it? MC is mixed humans in a broth, stirring, and producing a previously not existing product. It is engineering. It is social, and it requires as a premise cultural relativity. Perhaps the words of Merkel best answer the question definitively. Video from years ago:

Edit: Sorry. I did not see attached link above until I posted this. But this is good. It shows how multiple people see her confession as pivotal to current events. You cannot say such things, and do such things now, and have any place to hide in reason or excuse. Having said such things, as the then French President did also, you the define today's actions as no less then treasonous.

Edited March 14, 2016 by arjunadawn

[Steely Dan]

^^

Treason indeed, it becomes crystal clear when the likely accession of Turkey into the EU would give free passage to 70 million Sunni Muslims, how do you assimilate that many when their leader goes so far as to tell them not to assimilate.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/erdogan-urges-turks-not-to-assimilate-you-are-part-of-germany-but-also-part-of-our-great-turkey-a-748070.html

It makes it tempting to conclude that the failure to police Europe's external borders was part of a plan to precipitate the migrant crisis then propose Turkish accession as a solution.

[sawadee1947]

Blablabla you talk like a baby. Only repeating the B.S. others are stating. I guess you did not met any Muslim personally

[sawadee1947]

The Muslims did not change over the last 1000years?????

Are you sure YOU did? What a rubbish of prejudices.

S

[Saradoc1972]

The Muslims did not change over the last 1000years?????

Are you sure YOU did? What a rubbish of prejudices.

S

Ah, just what you get in Germany when you so much as open your mouth against certain forms of immigration, not even against foreigners. If you are not with refugee advocates you must be against them and incredibly stupid for that, and a racist on top even when Muslim is not a race.

They say that straight to your face and have a bright aura of righteousness when they do. But not to worry, Germans just don't talk to the press anymore while that sentiment lasts, don't enter into arguments that will only result in being insulted and shouted at, and have their say in the privacy of polling stations.

[i claudius]

What is wrong anyway with Muslims in our countries as long they are willing to be integrated and follow our laws?

But they are not willing on the whole , and they never will be .

[connda]

Very nice reply. Kudos.

It's so simple for the uninformed to toss a supposively paternalistic question into the mix, looking for an equally uninformed and clueless answer. But that is working less often nowadays as many Westerns are educating themselves. Presupposing that a non-Muslim would never actually wade into the Sira, Hadith, and Koran might have held water, even up to a few years ago, but one thing the mass immigration and subsequent social problems that have surface have been a catalyst for, and that is to motivate non-Muslims to learn exactly what Islam is and is not, and prepare/act accordingly. The ignorant¹ will either continue to plead that we must just "all get along", which is simply not what the political nature of Islam is about. The political nature of Islam is total domination of the non-Islamic world; 'Submission' is the only acceptable outcome. So the Muslim immigrants, unless they are secular Muslims (about 30% of Syrian Muslims are), will continue to isolate themselves from the cultures and societal norms of their host countries, and will continue to act in ways totally unacceptable to Western Judo-Christian culture. Arjunadawn understands why, I understand why, but for those in the EU who simply have had enough 'lawlessness²', these people are now simply calling for a return to a sane immigration policy.

¹I'm not using the word 'ignorant' in a negative or demeaning sense, I simply mean 'unknowledgeable'.

²Unlnowledgeable individuals would not be able to understand the political side of Islam and the concept of 'submission' outside of a religious sense that they may have read in a newspaper or periodical; but they do understand behavior that falls outside the norm of their societal/cultural values, e.g., rape is an act of lawlessness. In Islam, the rape of Kafir (non-Muslim) women is a cultural norm. So Western culture and Islamic culture can not coexist. For those who disagree with this, I suggest they dedicate themselves to the reading of the Sira, Hadith, and Koran, and their commentaries, along with studying the history of the spread of Islam over the centuries, and why is was pushed back into it's present day boundaries, well, up until recently.

I think this is a great post, and not Pollyannaism because you referenced me. In this post above you sum up the problem exactly. It is a current staple of the West (US/EU) that protesting your own rape is a greater crime than the first injury. Without question this narrative is being acted out in EU exactly the way posters on TV said it would:

1. Innocent people would be raped, abused, misused, alienated, and financially leveraged to accommodate those who have zero investment in their social contract.

2. When they begin to protest this abuse State will manage numbers (Crime), media, and the narrative to isolate the politically incorrect- those injured- and make the issue about them, rather then the cultural suicide.

3. When the horrific numbers began to gather instead of conceding the error of such an insurgent agenda as replacing an entire host culture, those in power will double down.

4. The only intermediate to end results of such policies will be violence/conflict.

a. The only early results of these polices will be injuries, rapes, financial loss, debt to posterity, plunging market values.

b. The intermediate results will be vigilante acts, defensive acts, even hate acts. Further intermediate acts will be the gathering of groups for and against the agenda.

c. Finally, the end result of such policies requires violence to survive as a host or to exist as guest. Conflict is spelled over every aspect of these choices. Its so palpable as to be predictable.

There is no way on earth that a migrating muslim male population will behave any differently than it has in over 1,000 years. It is not possible that islamic migrants will genuflect to a host christian nation. These new arrivals will not... they positively will not subordinate their imported values to accommodate their host. Conflict is absolutely the only end of this civilization betrayal... this, Civilization Jihad. The OP is nevertheless misleading in that no one in authority is announcing "enough." This is fraudulent. Its the people who declare this. State is doubling down on this madness.

Therein lays the 'politically correct' mindset of nations who embrace progressive socialism, Sweden being one of the worst offenders. Case in point:

Swedish police has kept several thousand incidents at asylum centers secret. It includes violence, bomb threats and rapes, all classified under code 291.

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20160129/1033947164/swedish-police-refugee-crimes.html

Victimize the aggressor; demonize the victim.

The Swede's I truly expect to be instrumental in the downfall their own country, and the destruction of their own rich culture. I personally believe that the Swedish government is a fairly true representation of the will of the Swedish people. Sad to see them destroy themselves, but once a person has soaked themselves in gasoline, I wouldn't plan to be the one to attempt to take the zippo lighter out of their hand.

Germany, on the other hand. I don't think so. Germans aren't Swedes. And if last Sunday's elections are any indication, the Merkel-led status quo isn't going to stand through another election cycle. Although this may fracture the country, Germany, historically, has a way of finding it's way though adversity.