Dane closes business in Thailand over visa issue

[Ulic]

Best of luck in the future. I am sure the ex-pat business community will miss you and thanks

you for shining the spotlight.

[fey]

guess i wont open that noodle cart i was planning on doing. i was going to call it 'failang noodle"

[bkkcanuck8]

So he was having issues renewing his permission to stay extension. Why not leave the country and get a new visa instead ?..... closing the business is a bit extreme.

After 16 years of operation he only has the same capital as when he arrived (1 million). Business seems to be whatever he can scrape together, and even if he had "4 employees" on paper - he has no competent Thai staff to run it.... in other words - it is basically a one man operation but maybe with some decoration for immigration. If he is making a profit he is diverting that profit into another account not on the business books (which is not uncommon - but not quite legal either).

I just get the feeling that the business is not quite fulfilling the minimum requirements - especially now without his wife. The authorities are likely correct in not automatically continuing to grant him the paperwork - maybe because they see an opportunity to make a little on the side to look the other way.... but the business owner does not seem to be lily-white in regards to him just being a victim.

You don't know what you are talking about. Before renewal is filed one must show receipts from the the social security office with the minimal 4 staff paid tax from the past 3 months or the application is refused acceptance. If they are suspicious they are paid only on paper they (imm. or SS) will come by and check. The whole point of registering a LTd here is having protection as the 49% share holder with preferred voting rights so the wife or any other share holder cannot make decisions for the company.

If the company is not maintaining the minimum profits, Imm. can inform the revenue dept they are suspicious. This is an extreme thing to due even for them as that can sink the boat in for most cases which is not their intention. The statement they made to scanasia for him to bring his passport in for renewal now is a sigh they pushed things too far and they know it. Running a LTD here is not a cheap thing to do here without an acceptable bare minimum of profit.

You are right, I don't know running a business in Thailand.... but I have in the past and at 4 employees over a lengthy period of time - at least 1 and potentially 2 employees would be sufficiently competent in the business to be able to run it if I stepped back from day-to-day operations. (i.e. he would not have to sell).

Over 16 years of operation it would take maybe 5% annual growth (likely below Thailand's average growth rate) assuming he was retaining earnings on his companies books to get to a point where he would not have to raise more capital if the requirement doubled. (i.e. $30K over 16 years).

[hgma]

Why is this story appearing in TV?

And Why so much publicity?

A coin has 2 sides...........highlighting one in such a dramatic fashion wouldn't be my choice .

That would be A,Drummond

Anyway....good luck mr Preben

Edited March 15, 2016 by hgma

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

From the net.

http://www.udonrealestate.com/

http://www.htspweb.co.uk/cia/2009/cc/5304fb.htm

PREBENPRETZMANN2-400x300.jpg

So let me translate to the farangs what this poor Farang Dane went through. He started a business 16 years ago, somewhere along the line the real estate business was not doing too well or as the name suggest he planned to do PI work from the start. When immigration or someone caught him out (running 2 businesses under one company and 1 WP) he was asked to change his logo to reflect his true business. His first attempt at this was rejected by government officials. After further investigation (because of his fraud) they found that he only had B 1 mil paid up equity instead of B 2 mil. Due to the fact that he committed fraud they are now sticky to approve his WP and visa extension. Being here now for 16 years Farang Dane now have learned about saving face. Does this not sound more logical than the news story ? Ask yourself what would happen to any foreigner that tries this in your home country ?

Edited March 15, 2016 by SOUTHERNSTAR

[TacoHell]

since his business is closed, Im sure there's no reason he can't post his financial audits for the past 2 years and make a good case for Thailand screwing him.

Oh, and also show he has 4 legit Thai employees. (he has no wife in the company anymore)

He can really make a case here.

We should all take this matter seriously

Complaining to scandasia? Does he not have an accountant and a lawyer?

A request to change your sign is a polite way of telling someone to F%$k off in Thailand, especially when your business name is FBI.

poor fella

Are you having trouble answering my direct question to you? I replied to your post.

You sound angry for some reason.

I would reply when you have a basic understanding of registered Thai capital and how that's achieved, employee requirements, tax requirements, business licenses, VAT registration, and all the responsibilities that come along with having a work permit and a legitimate business in Thailand But as you said, you don't.

[Thian]

Is the color orange for monks only? If so i would have changed it if i were him. I see every color for constructionshirts except orange in BKK, in fact i don't see that color used at all.

[elliss]

While Thailand has an active "sex industry" and ladys who are not that choosy, the retirees will keep coming, will build their mac mansions and buy trucks for their "teeraks"

Your comments may become valid the day Thailand decides to crack down on the "sex industry"

Next month is what I hear. [ quote ]

That Will be the day , the 33 day , of the thirteenth mounth.

FBI. has a well earned reputation , a trusted and well respected company , in Udon .

Edited March 15, 2016 by elliss

[SussexExpat]

Is the color orange for monks only? If so i would have changed it if i were him. I see every color for constructionshirts except orange in BKK, in fact i don't see that color used at all.

I repeat. Orange is the official colour of Udon Thani. It's very common in Udon.

[Eric Loh]

Don't do business here even if you are an ASEAN member.....

Just the other week, round the corner from where I stay a Burmese man set up a food stall in a large market area. He was physically assaulted by the locals and told to get out and go back to Burma ...

Even the Singaporeans won't bother to come here coz of the corruption, scams, local mafia and B.S. that goes with visas/WP etc. etc.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/903084-thai-police-general-is-among-the-list-of-mafia-bosses-handed-over-to-police-by-army/

Up until a few weeks ago there were a fair few Filipinos here but I dont seem to run into or hear them around....have they got the "hint" and gone home also ?

I like to know how you come up with such assumption about Singaporeans. I have been doing business here for a long time and I have been guiding many of my country men to do business here and many of them are successful. If you do your business legit, follow the laws and regulations, pay your taxes promptly and submit your yearly audit, you really have not much problem.

[menzies233]

The lower end price for a villa in Chiang Mai is about 2-3 m baht rising to 30 m for a luxury villa, with commision at 5% this gives a figure of anything between 100,000B and 1.5 m baht for 1 sale.......... I feel so sorry for these poor estate agents

It would be no loss to see estate agents disappear from all countries, they create nothing that you couldn't do for yourself with a few well placed advertisements.

[Varangkul]

CNXBKKMAN - so, if I wear an orange or (God forbid) scarlet frock, name my business, home, car or dog with an English language abbreviation which, somewhere on the planet, may possibly suggest police, army, etc, etc, I should accept running the risk of being subjected to all kinds of immigration et all hassle?? Even after being here perfectly legally for 10 years?

I dread to think how many wars across the millennia all over this darn great rock floating in space have been started by a ' cultural faux pas'

About time I cranked up option 2 - Kompat here I come!

Oh, come on. You've lived here for ten years - and learnt nothing about Thai culture? There are certain - many - colours in Thailand that it is wise to consider when and where to wear them, for fear of hurting someone's feelings. Red and yellow have political connotations, purple has religious connotations, and so it goes on. No matter how "legal" you may have been for ten years, it doesn't show on the colour of your shirt - or dress!

[monspencer]

The lower end price for a villa in Chiang Mai is about 2-3 m baht rising to 30 m for a luxury villa, with commision at 5% this gives a figure of anything between 100,000B and 1.5 m baht for 1 sale.......... I feel so sorry for these poor estate agents

Here in Pattaya the money must be rolling in to these guys..

I have had my 3 bedroom house on the market with 5 Estate Agents for well over 6 months and not one of them has sent me a single potential buyer, not one of them has bothered to contact me to suggest that maybe I should reduce the price I am looking for, not one of them has bothered to contact me to see if it is still on the market.

So I think it's about time I sacked the lot of them and started again, as they obviously don't need the 5% commission for selling my property.

And indeed, as menzies233 has just said, do it myself with a few well placed advertisements.

Edited March 15, 2016 by monspencer

[TacoHell]

A retirement extension or non-b extension has no risk if you're above board

Lawyer up. Save yourself the hassle if you're legit. Sit back and have a Chang and a let a power of attorney letter deal with it. 10k per year, yet some of you would rather get tossed around for days on end at immigrations amusement.

Rule #1 about extensions of stay: In Thailand, never go to immigration, ever.

Rule #2 See #1

I have not set foot at an immigration office for 8 years. It is totally legal. Just sign a power of attorney allowing your lawyer or accountant to act on your behalf only for certain things.

Amazing the things people will go through here to save a few baht.

I dunno, being retired means I have plenty of time on my hands. Ripping up 10k just to stay at home watching TV seems a bit silly

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

Taco,

I fear you've been out of the loop for some years now. There is no power of attorney required for a proxy at immigration. Perhaps you are deep in the "village"?

ThaiVisa may help to keep you up to date.

yep way out of the loop, you know preferring to give certain legal obligations to be performed on my behalf to a competent individual and documented on paper with clear specifics. Im so far out dude. I can't believe I am so stupid, before I signed blank A4 paper to my local vegetable reseller.

Edited March 15, 2016 by TacoHell

[donsonny]

I known Preben for years and he is the most honest man you will ever find. Always there to help farang if in problems. Always taken care of farang when they bought houses so the Thai wife shouldn't cheat them. A great guy and a even better father. Shame it had to end like this.

Regarding this link. http://www.htspweb.c...9/cc/5304fb.htm then I think it is either some Nigerian <deleted> or someone in some way got pissed by Preben and the way he did business. ( the honest way) His good name is being used to something bad here.

[Don Mega]

A retirement extension or non-b extension has no risk if you're above board

Lawyer up. Save yourself the hassle if you're legit. Sit back and have a Chang and a let a power of attorney letter deal with it. 10k per year, yet some of you would rather get tossed around for days on end at immigrations amusement.

Rule #1 about extensions of stay: In Thailand, never go to immigration, ever.

Rule #2 See #1

I have not set foot at an immigration office for 8 years. It is totally legal. Just sign a power of attorney allowing your lawyer or accountant to act on your behalf only for certain things.

Amazing the things people will go through here to save a few baht.

I dunno, being retired means I have plenty of time on my hands. Ripping up 10k just to stay at home watching TV seems a bit silly

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

Taco,

I fear you've been out of the loop for some years now. There is no power of attorney required for a proxy at immigration. Perhaps you are deep in the "village"?

ThaiVisa may help to keep you up to date.

yep way out of the loop, you know preferring to give certain legal obligations to be performed on my behalf to a competent individual and documented on paper with clear specifics. Im so far out dude. I can't believe I am so stupid, before I signed blank A4 paper to my local vegetable reseller.

so if you used an agent to handle your extensions and stuff how did you sign the documents ?

My extension and work permit are handled by an agent (My employer pays this) yet every 2 years I have to front at one stop for the final part of the renewal process to sign on the dotted line... it is no bother at all and Iam in and out in under an hour but Iam curious as to how you manage to avoid this altogether.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Don Mega

[ggt]

My first instinct is that his business was unwanted competition...someone wanted it eliminated...and all the harassment was the Thai way of encouraging a foreigner to close up shop and move on...no need for your kind here...a successful foreign business attracts resentment by Thai competitors...

Remember...this is Thailand...all the visa and other innocuous hassles are intentional...

[phantomfiddler]

Very easy to do business here. I would bet this gentleman has shown no or little profit for the past 16 years and got away with it. Guy sounds like a giant pussy.

A foreign owned business in Thailand with no profit after 2 years will not get their work permit and extension of stay renewed for 1 year. 1st it's 6 months, then 3.

Big cry baby.

I can't disagree with you about the ease of doing business in Thailand as I've not had a business here. I can only wonder about how you make this claim while in the post following yours by NickJ we read the diametrically opposite from a person who states he has a business.

I read the article with the link and saw this "“Most companies start up with 2 million baht or so, so suddenly I had to do the same. Which meant I had to raise 1 million extra really quick, which I did,” Preben Pretzmann recalls.

Where did you read about the profit this man made? He states he raised the extra one million THB quickly but I'm not clear as to what he needed to do with it.

I personally hate to see any honest business close as it, by definition, reduces competition. I see no reason to harbor any ill thoughts or feelings about this man based on what I read on the OP or in the linked article.

I don,t see what the "profit" has to do with anything here. When you apply for a work permit you have to sign a document stating that you are making 80,000 Bht per month, even if in reality you have many months when you make zilch. Every month you get taxed on this 80,000 Bht, all done by your accountant, and if you are lucky and business minded you should sail along with no problems. In this case it sounds to me that the unfortunate guy was just being shaken down by the immigration official in order to extract cash, in which case the only alternatives are to pay or shut down

[natway09]

There are some more requirements to obtaining a visa extension for a Company owner after 3 years of operating a business here.

basically they expect to see tax returns showing realistic figures, VAT returns promptly before 15th of the month blah blah.

I am in no way suggesting you have not complied but ask them what is bothering them.

As to signage I have 3 & they can be a problem & an annual fee must be paid the fee depending on the sign size.

You get a discount if also name in Thai lettering at least 100mm in height & the local council has the allowed sizes & fees for each size

They are looking for 2 things, using the business as an excuse to stay here & (or laundering)

Incidently who are your Thai shareholders with 51% ownership, & why can they not help

Good Luck & if not following the rules, get in line quickly.

Sorry, but FBI was a silly name to choose. (Think about it)

[docshock13]

Only met the fellow in the OP once or twice. And while I am obviously not privy to his private or business affairs, my impression was that he is an honest businessman with ties to (and respected by) the local community and sufficiently capitalized. So if I had to pick sides, I would put money on Mr. Pretzmann's side of the story. Note: Never have done business with the gentleman. Nor do I work for him. Hell, I am not even in Thailand!

[docshock13]

P.s. my feeling is the closure of his business is out of a matter of principle not money (or lack thereof).

[kingdratsab]

The lower end price for a villa in Chiang Mai is about 2-3 m baht rising to 30 m for a luxury villa, with commision at 5% this gives a figure of anything between 100,000B and 1.5 m baht for 1 sale.......... I feel so sorry for these poor estate agents

please get your facts correct before making a statement, he charges 3%....... a huge difference

[marinediscoking]

I known Preben for years and he is the most honest man you will ever find. Always there to help farang if in problems. Always taken care of farang when they bought houses so the Thai wife shouldn't cheat them. A great guy and a even better father. Shame it had to end like this.

Regarding this link. http://www.htspweb.c...9/cc/5304fb.htm then I think it is either some Nigerian <deleted> or someone in some way got pissed by Preben and the way he did business. ( the honest way) His good name is being used to something bad here.

Well you should know people here on TV are experts in matters like this. They know many things from thier time in the bar and being informed by their under educated girlfriends and wifes. This topic is proof positive from most of the posts.

I am always amazed when when forgineers here ask me if "this is your wife's" business. After telling them no to have a wife or girlfriend they cannot fathom how its possible to do here from what they have been told. As others have posted if you start an Ltd one can do most businesses, but if you don't pay the Thai way you could have visa problems.

I salute your friend Preben for standing up to them and exposing them, so much of my time and money wasted because of having to deal with corruption.

[carlyai]

It is strange. I went to renew my retirement visa extension up country on tuesday.

Thought there would be no problems but id previously only done it in pattaya.

I have an investment account that matures either 3, or 7 or 12 months, depending on the rates, and when it is due i roll it over into the next investment going at bangkok bank.

I took the investment account bankbooks from 2014 showing that i have had sufficent funds in a thai bank. When one term deposit comes due, that bank book is cancelled, another bankbook created with the new term deposit.

The immigration person would not accept it as he said the bankbook numbers were different, even though when one book ended the next showed the transfered amount.

Blind fredy could see the money had been in thailand for many years, but he maintained that because the passbook numbers were different and the latest rollover was less than 3 months that i didnt have the funds in the bank to qualify for my retirement visa extendion.

So now ive goto fly from roiet to bangkok to get a thai translation of our marriage certificate(married at the aus embassy bangkok 27 years ago). Then back up country to get a marriage to thai visa and wait till the time is up for this numbered bankbook so i can get my retirement visa.

Noooorrrrr

[samran]

If he has been here that long he could have easily gotten PR or citizensenship if his businesses were halfway legit and making money.

[kingdratsab]

What does the FBI stand for in this Udon real estate business? It's a strange choice for the name of a business. I am not American but I know FBI means the police. It's well known throughout the world. Going around with FBI on your shirt and no mention of Real Estate or other similar words may make people think you are impersonating the FBI to some degree. Orange is a colour associated with monks and Buddhism. Is there a cultural faux pas going on when you roll into Immigration Police office with FBI written plain orange shirt. You might be starting off on the wrong foot before you even open your mouth or hand over the documents. They may actually take an instant dislike to you?

FBI=......First and Best IN udon thani according to the previous link

[marinediscoking]

So he was having issues renewing his permission to stay extension. Why not leave the country and get a new visa instead ?..... closing the business is a bit extreme.

After 16 years of operation he only has the same capital as when he arrived (1 million). Business seems to be whatever he can scrape together, and even if he had "4 employees" on paper - he has no competent Thai staff to run it.... in other words - it is basically a one man operation but maybe with some decoration for immigration. If he is making a profit he is diverting that profit into another account not on the business books (which is not uncommon - but not quite legal either).

I just get the feeling that the business is not quite fulfilling the minimum requirements - especially now without his wife. The authorities are likely correct in not automatically continuing to grant him the paperwork - maybe because they see an opportunity to make a little on the side to look the other way.... but the business owner does not seem to be lily-white in regards to him just being a victim.

You don't know what you are talking about. Before renewal is filed one must show receipts from the the social security office with the minimal 4 staff paid tax from the past 3 months or the application is refused acceptance. If they are suspicious they are paid only on paper they (imm. or SS) will come by and check. The whole point of registering a LTd here is having protection as the 49% share holder with preferred voting rights so the wife or any other share holder cannot make decisions for the company.

If the company is not maintaining the minimum profits, Imm. can inform the revenue dept they are suspicious. This is an extreme thing to due even for them as that can sink the boat in for most cases which is not their intention. The statement they made to scanasia for him to bring his passport in for renewal now is a sigh they pushed things too far and they know it. Running a LTD here is not a cheap thing to do here without an acceptable bare minimum of profit.

You are right, I don't know running a business in Thailand.... but I have in the past and at 4 employees over a lengthy period of time - at least 1 and potentially 2 employees would be sufficiently competent in the business to be able to run it if I stepped back from day-to-day operations. (i.e. he would not have to sell).

Over 16 years of operation it would take maybe 5% annual growth (likely below Thailand's average growth rate) assuming he was retaining earnings on his companies books to get to a point where he would not have to raise more capital if the requirement doubled. (i.e. $30K over 16 years).

Here in Thailand you must have 4 staff to apply or renew a work permit. If he wanted to step away and let a couple of staff run it I don't think it would last. I am guessing most of his clients are expats and in that part on thailand i would think he was the only expat real estate agent. Potential Buyers would trust an established expat agent to explain in clear English the proper way to buy land or a house as opposed to a thai agent.

[tuanku]

Strange ...... there are always two sides to every story, I would like to know the other sides reason word for word before I believe this.

Reason? you are making some large assumptions here.

[Robbie Dye]

First of many shutting soon as nobody buying property whilst junta in charge.

[kingdratsab]

If he has been here that long he could have easily gotten PR or citizensenship if his businesses were halfway legit and making money.

Why slag off someone who you know nothing about??? As the previous poster stated he's an honest and helpful business man.