Dane closes business in Thailand over visa issue

[stickylies]

There will be no more foriegn investment. And no more retirees and the retirees here will leave. Because of assnine immagration laws anb the harassment of foreigners in the kingdom..

While Thailand has an active "sex industry" and ladys who are not that choosy, the retirees will keep coming, will build their mac mansions and buy trucks for their "teeraks"

Your comments may become valid the day Thailand decides to crack down on the "sex industry"

55,elephants will fly before that happens.

or more realistically: elephants will be extinct when that happens...

pussy is more popular than trunk....................

[mesterm]

What does the FBI stand for in this Udon real estate business? It's a strange choice for the name of a business. I am not American but I know FBI means the police. It's well known throughout the world. Going around with FBI on your shirt and no mention of Real Estate or other similar words may make people think you are impersonating the FBI to some degree. Orange is a colour associated with monks and Buddhism. Is there a cultural faux pas going on when you roll into Immigration Police office with FBI written plain orange shirt. You might be starting off on the wrong foot before you even open your mouth or hand over the documents. They may actually take an instant dislike to you?

Everyone's a comedian.

[Roomuck]

Thailand is for Thai people. Getting a visa is easy, there are many to choose from. Doing business as a non citizen is also easy as long as you follow the rules.

The Thais give us all heaps of opportunities, we should be grateful.

I will use the example of Australia verses Thai.

Today I had lunch with a Thai mate Anan.

Anan is 34, works for himself with computers, slow month 60,000 baht with some a lot bigger.

If I am in Oz and I want to go to Thailand tomorrow for a week, I just jump on the plane, no visa required for 30days or less.

If he decides tomorrow he wants to go to Oz for a week, he won't be able to. The Oz embassy will make him fill out a whole lot of forms and charge him just for applying. He will have to be intervened. Then, if he isn't traveling with a Aussie citizen or for any reason

the embassy doesn't think is good enough, he will be rejected.

His case they would likely reject him. So he cannot even go on a one week holiday to Australia. Ever.

The amount of different visas available to us for Thailand is too long for me to get into.

I think for most people it would be a trip to Thai immigration every few months, fill in some forms, and you are right to go again.

Anan can not buy an established house in Australia. He can buy off the plan. But since they won't give him a holiday visa, that ain't gonna happen.

He can't decide that tomorrow that he will go to Australia and open a real estate agent. Or a beer bar, or get around the system by just offering a bribe to an official or through his lawyers just to smooth things through. It is impossible for anan to do.

But many, often very dodgy, Australians have that choice in Thailand. And it the same for the English etc etc as well.

When Anan is fifty he can't get a retirement visa in oz with the onlyrequirement that he has $30,000.

He could get an education visa to go to Australia, but would actually have to go to class. And because it is full time, it costs plenty, not the supposed eight hours per week for peanuts like here.

He can't effectively live in Australia and do visa runs There is just no way for him to spend a week, a year, or ten in Oz.

But we can here.

[elliss]

What does the FBI stand for in this Udon real estate business? It's a strange choice for the name of a business. I am not American but I know FBI means the police. It's well known throughout the world. Going around with FBI on your shirt and no mention of Real Estate or other similar words may make people think you are impersonating the FBI to some degree. Orange is a colour associated with monks and Buddhism. Is there a cultural faux pas going on when you roll into Immigration Police office with FBI written plain orange shirt. You might be starting off on the wrong foot before you even open your mouth or hand over the documents. They may actually take an instant dislike to you?

Everyone's a comedian.

FYI ,

[Confuscious]

95% of people extend their permission to stay in the country without hassles or intimidation.

Where did you got that figure?

Can you show me the link to that figure?

You seem to be a "Future reader", so you will have absolutely NO PROBLEMS to publish the link to your "95%".

I am not allowed to publish links to other websites in ThaiVisa.

But if you do a simple Google search you will find enough webforums where people had problems with their Visa extension last year.

[cvs04]

I have to say in defense of Preben I also have a real estate business in Isaan but in a different province, only a couple of years old and had similar problems getting my 1 year non B.

Edited March 15, 2016 by cvs04

[Gutenberg]

Thailand is for Thai people. Getting a visa is easy, there are many to choose from. Doing business as a non citizen is also easy as long as you follow the rules.

The Thais give us all heaps of opportunities, we should be grateful.

I will use the example of Australia verses Thai.

Today I had lunch with a Thai mate Anan.

Anan is 34, works for himself with computers, slow month 60,000 baht with some a lot bigger.

If I am in Oz and I want to go to Thailand tomorrow for a week, I just jump on the plane, no visa required for 30days or less.

If he decides tomorrow he wants to go to Oz for a week, he won't be able to. The Oz embassy will make him fill out a whole lot of forms and charge him just for applying. He will have to be intervened. Then, if he isn't traveling with a Aussie citizen or for any reason

the embassy doesn't think is good enough, he will be rejected.

His case they would likely reject him. So he cannot even go on a one week holiday to Australia. Ever.

The amount of different visas available to us for Thailand is too long for me to get into.

I think for most people it would be a trip to Thai immigration every few months, fill in some forms, and you are right to go again.

Anan can not buy an established house in Australia. He can buy off the plan. But since they won't give him a holiday visa, that ain't gonna happen.

He can't decide that tomorrow that he will go to Australia and open a real estate agent. Or a beer bar, or get around the system by just offering a bribe to an official or through his lawyers just to smooth things through. It is impossible for anan to do.

But many, often very dodgy, Australians have that choice in Thailand. And it the same for the English etc etc as well.

When Anan is fifty he can't get a retirement visa in oz with the onlyrequirement that he has $30,000.

He could get an education visa to go to Australia, but would actually have to go to class. And because it is full time, it costs plenty, not the supposed eight hours per week for peanuts like here.

He can't effectively live in Australia and do visa runs There is just no way for him to spend a week, a year, or ten in Oz.

But we can here.

Yeah right, we westerners are known for our cheap black labor in other countries.

And then he just marries a European woman and/or gets a child with her, gets unlimited visa without any reporting, without requirements whatsoever, can work in every branch without limits, gets bigger pay than he ever dreamt of, child support in the amount of minimum wage of Thailand, nearly free health insurance, access to a welfare system which is called average wage in Thailand, corruption free civil servants, free and good education for his kids, after 5 years citizenship and in a case court, he will be treated more equally because of anti discrimination laws.

Then, while you think about these great achievements the western world has to offer nearly anyone, you need to stand up in a Thai cinema and listen to the national anthem which says, Thailand for the Thais.

[timendres]

Very easy to do business here. I would bet this gentleman has shown no or little profit for the past 16 years and got away with it. Guy sounds like a giant pussy.

A foreign owned business in Thailand with no profit after 2 years will not get their work permit and extension of stay renewed for 1 year. 1st it's 6 months, then 3.

Big cry baby.

I can't disagree with you about the ease of doing business in Thailand as I've not had a business here. I can only wonder about how you make this claim while in the post following yours by NickJ we read the diametrically opposite from a person who states he has a business.

I read the article with the link and saw this "“Most companies start up with 2 million baht or so, so suddenly I had to do the same. Which meant I had to raise 1 million extra really quick, which I did,” Preben Pretzmann recalls.

Where did you read about the profit this man made? He states he raised the extra one million THB quickly but I'm not clear as to what he needed to do with it.

I personally hate to see any honest business close as it, by definition, reduces competition. I see no reason to harbor any ill thoughts or feelings about this man based on what I read on the OP or in the linked article.

I do own a business here. It is both easy and difficult. There are extra requirements, documentation, and expenses for the foreign business owner. So he is at a natural disadvantage relative to Thais. Thus, he must work a little harder and a little smarter. Certain businesses are naturally better options for foreigners.

In my experience, most business owners run into trouble trying to save money doing all of the legal / immigration stuff by themselves. They inevitably make mistakes, get frustrated, become confrontational, and end up screwing themselves. We work with an accounting and legal firm that, for a reasonable fee, handles all of the accounting / legal / immigration matters for us.

I never speak to the government. The accountant handles everything. The few times I have needed to attend a filing, I kept my mouth shut, smiled, and let the accountant's representative handle everything and do all the talking.

Having read over this story, clearly something is going on between this business owner and the official. Some suggest he did not fork over an expected bribe. Possibly he has somehow offended the official in another way (who knows, maybe he accidentally insulted a family member by selling the house they wanted to another party). Maybe he offended a close friend talking too loud in a pub. Public officials taking advantage of their power in this way is not unique to Thailand, and every official I have dealt with has been honest and professional.

The bottom line is simply that foreign business owners in Thailand must be prepared to exert more effort, pay more expenses, and deal with additional regulations to operate in Thailand. They need to understand this up front and prepare for it and include it in their business plan. If properly planned for, and properly handled, they have every chance to succeed.

Edited March 15, 2016 by timendres

[hawkeye76]

For all the naysayers who proclaim Thailand is nothing but downhill from here; when are you leaving?

Its very easy to say the comment "when are you leaving?"..

The problem is that while many of us, myself included, are sick and tired of the bullshit in this country, but we have families (or other obligations), and can sadly not pick up and leave in 2 minutes, even if we wanted to.

Personally i used to own 2 companies here in Thailand, and both have been shut down by immigration, due to immigration officers request of high amounts of "tea money" on regular basis.

I have been through the various options in regards of how to make the best out of the current political clime vs my longterm stay here, and came to the conclusion (together with my wife), that its best to leave Thailand early next year, and in 5 year she will follow me, when she retire from her job. In the meantime i will fly back and forth as a tourist as often as possible.

We will mosty likely retire in Burgas/Bulgaria. Buy some land, build a house, and enjoy our otium together without all this drama..

Great place, nice people, and not so much visa problem as here, if Thai, or farang..

[arrowsdawdle]

Strange ...... there are always two sides to every story, I would like to know the other sides reason word for word before I believe this.

Not strange, merely logical. Just look for the Thai-owned real estate competitor.

Why do Thais do these things? Because they can.

[Yahooka]

Is the color orange for monks only? If so i would have changed it if i were him. I see every color for constructionshirts except orange in BKK, in fact i don't see that color used at all.

I repeat. Orange is the official colour of Udon Thani. It's very common in Udon.

It's the official colour of Thursday too in Thailand. Does any other country give the days of the week colours?

Sure....................In the West we have Blue monday .

[pedro01]

it is painfully clear only Chinese are welcome here..and until all you with rose tints wake up YOU too will loose it all..... after decades here I liquidated all my assets , I dont even own a house or car anymore (I rent by the month)...In 24 hours a I can be gone

Get a little closer to the ground Terryp , my Chinese wife, has run her own business in Bangkok for nearly nine years supplying railway wheels and axles to the SRT, she is fully legit and meets all the requirements, however, as she spends half the year operating our China business, whenever she needs to renew her Thai work permit, she is forever running into problems in obtaining a Non B visa. Three odd years ago this was not an issue with multi entry all but guaranteed. It's a different ball game now, in January she was required to renew her work permit and managed after a battle to get a single entry Non B, but then when the work permit was issued it was only for six months, so it's back again very soon to renew again, but once more she is fighting to obtain the Non B.

Contrary to your remarks, the Thai consulates in China are very difficult to deal with, likewise Hong Kong.

So it's definitely not a bed of roses for the Chinese, in fact my wife's situation appears to be very similar to the OP

Out of interest, how many Thai staff does she employ?

[pedro01]

"“Most companies start up with 2 million baht or so, so suddenly I had to do the same. Which meant I had to raise 1 million extra really quick, which I did,” Preben Pretzmann recalls"

This is bullshite, the value of a company is on paper only, whether it be 1,2 or ten million baht. You do not have to actually have the cash. As an example, if you wanted to setup a 1 million Baht company with a lawyer, it would cost approximately 32,000 Baht and for every million after that you add 10,000 baht, so a 2 million baht company would cost 42,000 Baht and so on. I think that a few porky pies might be flying around in this story.

Not strictly true.

There is registered capital (value on paper) and 'paid up capital' - amount actually invested.

Thing is - once you pay in capital, you can use it as working capital and spend it anyway - it's not as if it has to sit there.

But they do expect you to invest and of course, you pay stamp duty on the whole registered amount.

[pedro01]

Very easy to do business here. I would bet this gentleman has shown no or little profit for the past 16 years and got away with it. Guy sounds like a giant pussy.

A foreign owned business in Thailand with no profit after 2 years will not get their work permit and extension of stay renewed for 1 year. 1st it's 6 months, then 3.

Big cry baby.

I can't disagree with you about the ease of doing business in Thailand as I've not had a business here. I can only wonder about how you make this claim while in the post following yours by NickJ we read the diametrically opposite from a person who states he has a business.

I read the article with the link and saw this "“Most companies start up with 2 million baht or so, so suddenly I had to do the same. Which meant I had to raise 1 million extra really quick, which I did,” Preben Pretzmann recalls.

Where did you read about the profit this man made? He states he raised the extra one million THB quickly but I'm not clear as to what he needed to do with it.

I personally hate to see any honest business close as it, by definition, reduces competition. I see no reason to harbor any ill thoughts or feelings about this man based on what I read on the OP or in the linked article.

I do own a business here. It is both easy and difficult. There are extra requirements, documentation, and expenses for the foreign business owner. So he is at a natural disadvantage relative to Thais. Thus, he must work a little harder and a little smarter. Certain businesses are naturally better options for foreigners.

In my experience, most business owners run into trouble trying to save money doing all of the legal / immigration stuff by themselves. They inevitably make mistakes, get frustrated, become confrontational, and end up screwing themselves. We work with an accounting and legal firm that, for a reasonable fee, handles all of the accounting / legal / immigration matters for us.

I never speak to the government. The accountant handles everything. The few times I have needed to attend a filing, I kept my mouth shut, smiled, and let the accountant's representative handle everything and do all the talking.

Having read over this story, clearly something is going on between this business owner and the official. Some suggest he did not fork over an expected bribe. Possibly he has somehow offended the official in another way (who knows, maybe he accidentally insulted a family member by selling the house they wanted to another party). Maybe he offended a close friend talking too loud in a pub. Public officials taking advantage of their power in this way is not unique to Thailand, and every official I have dealt with has been honest and professional.

The bottom line is simply that foreign business owners in Thailand must be prepared to exert more effort, pay more expenses, and deal with additional regulations to operate in Thailand. They need to understand this up front and prepare for it and include it in their business plan. If properly planned for, and properly handled, they have every chance to succeed.

Same here pretty much - although I have been interviewed by BIO and had them pay visits but I was always told what to say in advance.

In a bureaucracy like Thailand - it's all about checking the right boxes on the forms they give you. And lawyers/accountants know which boxes to check and what to say, even if it is somewhat far from reality.

[gk10002000]

There will be no more foriegn investment. And no more retirees and the retirees here will leave. Because of assnine immagration laws anb the harassment of foreigners in the kingdom..

There certainly won't be any from me, and just a few years ago I thought it would be a no-brainer to move and retire there, but a modest condo, let some friends from the states stay there while I was traveling elsewhere, etc. Now I see way too many risks and down sides to making any financial investment in the country. I don't want a massive bureaucracy and the associated red tape, but the rules, laws and policies are just too hard to plan for and deal with. A military coup stunts local civil officials and agencies.

[chrisinth]

There are some more requirements to obtaining a visa extension for a Company owner after 3 years of operating a business here.

basically they expect to see tax returns showing realistic figures, VAT returns promptly before 15th of the month blah blah.

I am in no way suggesting you have not complied but ask them what is bothering them.

As to signage I have 3 & they can be a problem & an annual fee must be paid the fee depending on the sign size.

You get a discount if also name in Thai lettering at least 100mm in height & the local council has the allowed sizes & fees for each size

They are looking for 2 things, using the business as an excuse to stay here & (or laundering)

Incidently who are your Thai shareholders with 51% ownership, & why can they not help

Good Luck & if not following the rules, get in line quickly.

Sorry, but FBI was a silly name to choose. (Think about it)

As you have mentioned signage, I'd just like to use your post as a springboard.

I don't understand what the reference in the OP was directed at from the Dane, that immigration insisted he change his business logo. What business is that of immigration?

I'm not sure if people realize how difficult it is to change a registered business logo here, and the knock-on effects of doing so towards said business.

Extremely confused about this part, unless as was mentioned by Southernstar earlier in the thread he was running two separate businesses under the one W/P, one as a PI and the other as an estate agent. Even then, this should be a matter for the labour office to sort out as well.

[simon43]

I have to say in defense of Preben I also have a real estate business in Isaan but in a different province, only a couple of years old and had similar problems getting my 1 year non B.

I'm curious as to how you can have a real estate business, when that is a profession restricted to Thai citizens only.

[Happy Grumpy]

There will be no more foriegn investment. And no more retirees and the retirees here will leave. Because of assnine immagration laws anb the harassment of foreigners in the kingdom..

Nonsense.

Plain.

and

Simple.

[abitmiffed]

There will be no more foriegn investment. And no more retirees and the retirees here will leave. Because of assnine immagration laws anb the harassment of foreigners in the kingdom..

That's exactly how they want it, spend ur money, don't complain, and bugger off, next victim plz...... This will I hope put the last nail in the coffin of Thailand.

[Farang99]

There will be no more foriegn investment. And no more retirees and the retirees here will leave. Because of assnine immagration laws anb the harassment of foreigners in the kingdom..

While Thailand has an active "sex industry" and ladys who are not that choosy, the retirees will keep coming, will build their mac mansions and buy trucks for their "teeraks"

Your comments may become valid the day Thailand decides to crack down on the "sex industry"

The sex industry is NOT the only reason retirees come to Thailand. Many of us enjoy a peaceful domestic and contented life here - as long as we keep up to date with immigration.

[Confuscious]

There are always 2 sides to a a case like this and as Immigration "refuse to give details on a particular case" I guess we will never know the truth.

As such, I will not comment to this particular case.

But I know Thailand, live already 16 years LEGALLY in Thailand, and never had a problem with Immigration before.

Until last year.

Since last year, getting an extension of my Retirement Visa has become a hell.

And I am not the only one, judging the many posts in other forums.

Thai Immigration has no real written specifications on how to obtain a Visa.

Thai Immigration Officers have the right to ask "additional documents" or deny a Visa without the need to give any explanation.

Add to this the corruption which has increased with this government, and you have everything you need to know why so many people have troubles with Immigration.

It's time for Thailand to specify the rules to get a Visa and STICK to these rules.

No personal interpretation of the law allowed.

Just got my extension today.No difference than last year except for,under consideration for a month and a house visit.No biggy.Piece of piss.No corruption.Saw a couple of old boys there who had no idea about re entry permit.The officer explained correctly about how it works and that you can get it at the airport.As i received mine i showed them in blue and white.Satang dropped,i think.I said you can get it know if you want,valid for a year.On bloke kept wanting to get it again and again in Germany.The officer explained how easy it was.Some blokes just tie themselves up in knots.Most officers out my way will help you.

5.4 Foreigner who wishes to extend his or her stay shall submit a request for extension of stay at the Office of the Immigration Bureau with documented evidence of money transfer or a deposit account in Thailand or an income certificate showing an amount of not less than 800,000 Baht or an income certificate plus a deposit account showing a total amount of not less than 800,000 Baht. A one-year extension of stay shall be granted at the discretion of the immigration officer to the foreigner as long as he or she meets the above requirements.

http://www.thaiembassy.org/bsb/en/services/4636/50950-Types-of-Visa.html

EVERY IMMIGRATION OFFICER can decide if you will be granted a Visa extension or not.

Officer "A" can give you a Visa extension without hassle and Officer "B" can make your life a hell.

The text "shall be granted at the discretion of the immigration officer" should be left out.

If the applicant meets the above requirements, he/she should be given a Visa extension.

[Bobotie]

There will be no more foriegn investment. And no more retirees and the retirees here will leave. Because of assnine immagration laws anb the harassment of foreigners in the kingdom..

While Thailand has an active "sex industry" and ladys who are not that choosy, the retirees will keep coming, will build their mac mansions and buy trucks for their "teeraks"

Your comments may become valid the day Thailand decides to crack down on the "sex industry"

The sex industry is NOT the only reason retirees come to Thailand. Many of us enjoy a peaceful domestic and contented life here - as long as we keep up to date with immigration.

Yes i know where did i say "all" and please read my response in context as a response to the post i quoted...of course the purpose of your post was to infer your "better" than those who choose to indulge in the sex industry, a typical holier than thou response...i was making a statement of fact not a moral judgement

[cgphuket]

Sounds like competition paid immigration to force out a foreign owned company thahat was being too successful.

[johnno2]

I known Preben for years and he is the most honest man you will ever find. Always there to help farang if in problems. Always taken care of farang when they bought houses so the Thai wife shouldn't cheat them. A great guy and a even better father. Shame it had to end like this.

Regarding this link. http://www.htspweb.c...9/cc/5304fb.htm then I think it is either some Nigerian <deleted> or someone in some way got pissed by Preben and the way he did business. ( the honest way) His good name is being used to something bad here.

yeah, you don't have to be a brain surgeon to work that out. bank mentioned is chase manhattan bank in NY and e-mail address for the bank is a hong kong email. definately a hoax. regarding FBI Investigations Ubon, there is nothing about it online

[Denim]

A long time ago I had dealings with Udon Immigration. After a lot of messing around it was eventually made clear ( by very circuitous suggestion ) to me that money in an envelope under the table would be a big help in sorting things out . Not corruption just a show of appreciation for the extra work involved.

I stopped going there and just got what I wanted in aBangkok without the run around and graft.

[NongKhaiKid]

Sounds like competition paid immigration to force out a foreign owned company thahat was being too successful.

For a long time FBI was the only real estate company in Udon and very successful.

In recent years other companies opened, all Thai owned I believe, but FBI continued to be successful.

I'll leave everyone to their thoughts until the full story comes out, if ever.

Edited March 16, 2016 by NongKhaiKid

[grumpyoldman]

I known Preben for years and he is the most honest man you will ever find. Always there to help farang if in problems. Always taken care of farang when they bought houses so the Thai wife shouldn't cheat them. A great guy and a even better father. Shame it had to end like this.

Regarding this link. http://www.htspweb.c...9/cc/5304fb.htm then I think it is either some Nigerian <deleted> or someone in some way got pissed by Preben and the way he did business. ( the honest way) His good name is being used to something bad here.

I encountered him also and I found him rude and chavvy. If he had been like this as they tried to get him to pay some tea money, I understand the result.

Well, at least we get some posts where people actually know the person as opposed to some TacoHell who doesn't calling the guy a crybaby.

[Don Mega]

A long time ago I had dealings with Udon Immigration. After a lot of messing around it was eventually made clear ( by very circuitous suggestion ) to me that money in an envelope under the table would be a big help in sorting things out . Not corruption just a show of appreciation for the extra work involved.

I stopped going there and just got what I wanted in aBangkok without the run around and graft.

must have been a sizeable donation request if the cost and effort to travel to BKK was more favourable.

[CNXBKKMAN]

There will be no more foriegn investment. And no more retirees and the retirees here will leave. Because of assnine immagration laws anb the harassment of foreigners in the kingdom..

There certainly won't be any from me, and just a few years ago I thought it would be a no-brainer to move and retire there, but a modest condo, let some friends from the states stay there while I was traveling elsewhere, etc. Now I see way too many risks and down sides to making any financial investment in the country. I don't want a massive bureaucracy and the associated red tape, but the rules, laws and policies are just too hard to plan for and deal with. A military coup stunts local civil officials and agencies.

Retirement visa is considered one of the easiest ways to stay in Thailand. Rents are cheap and plenty of choice. The cost of living can be low if you want it to be. The coup has made the country more stable and safe but it was bad news if you were involved in politics but who on this forum is involved in Thai politics?

[Denim]

A long time ago I had dealings with Udon Immigration. After a lot of messing around it was eventually made clear ( by very circuitous suggestion ) to me that money in an envelope under the table would be a big help in sorting things out . Not corruption just a show of appreciation for the extra work involved.

I stopped going there and just got what I wanted in aBangkok without the run around and graft.

must have been a sizeable donation request if the cost and effort to travel to BKK was more favourable.

The amount was not specified by them but an old Chinese woman told us she usually gave them a 1000 baht to sort her issue out. Coming from China it was second nature to her I guess.

As for traveling to Bangkok I was actually living in Khon Kaen at the time and there was no immigration office there back then.

Anyways .....a couple of nights in the city alone and un chaperoned was something to be savored for a young handsome bloke such as I was way back then.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Denim