Tourist Ban

[sanook1]

Apologies to Cobra and Nam (above)

yes lets all give the whole thing bad press....i am a global perpetual tourist!

You are not a tourist, tourists don't earn money, they just spend it. You are a working nomad .... where do you pay tax on your income?

//edit/sshhh.... let's see how long it takes for the 183 day rule to be mentioned

most western countries have tax treaties with thailand to prevent double taxation. So if above poster is deriving income from properties etc then nothing to feel guilty about as he is accountable for local tax and thailand is not going to risk their favorable trading relationships with western countries to try to double tax people. Forget about it.

by Thai law you are liable to pay 15% of your gross rental income if you don't file income tax here. If you set up a company and do file income tax returns, you can deduct expences.

15% of gross, thats interesting, is there a band that you have to reach here before that becomes applicable? In Denmark I have to pay 60% so 15 would be excellent. Say for example someone owned a flat in jomtien and rented it out for 25000 per month and that was their only income derrived from thailand, would that be 21250? I suppose people with large units renting for 150000 per month could say that the rent is only 25000 and take the difference in cash.

[udon]

I can see the ads now:

Apartments to let ,

Phnom Penh, Seam Reap & Sihanoukville, 90 day rentals.

Timeshare, anyone?

[Maestro]

...i am a global perpetual tourist!

The concept of the perpetual tourist or perpetual traveller (PT) is based on the principle that the PT never stays in any one country long enough to become liable for tax payment in that country. Books have been written on this subject.

The countries of this planet are not ready for the PT. That’s where your “global” comes in. You can be a PT, but not in Thailand, or any other country, alone. A PT has to move from country to country, staying in every country no longer than the laws and regulations permit a tourist to stay.

The problem of a PT begins when he falls in love with a particular country, makes it his base, and wants to stay longer at a time than this country considers sufficient for the purpose of tourism.

The PT must not have a home in any country. He does not travel in order to return, but to move on, which is not to say that every once in while his travels may bring him to a country to which he travelled before. The true PT has no difficulty complying with Thailand’s immigration rules, which are in fact very accommodating to a PT. His problems only start when the true PT-spirit leaves him.

---------------

Maestro

[JR Texas]

...i am a global perpetual tourist!

The concept of the perpetual tourist or perpetual traveller (PT) is based on the principle that the PT never stays in any one country long enough to become liable for tax payment in that country. Books have been written on this subject.

The countries of this planet are not ready for the PT. That’s where your “global” comes in. You can be a PT, but not in Thailand, or any other country, alone. A PT has to move from country to country, staying in every country no longer than the laws and regulations permit a tourist to stay.

The problem of a PT begins when he falls in love with a particular country, makes it his base, and wants to stay longer at a time than this country considers sufficient for the purpose of tourism.

The PT must not have a home in any country. He does not travel in order to return, but to move on, which is not to say that every once in while his travels may bring him to a country to which he travelled before. The true PT has no difficulty complying with Thailand’s immigration rules, which are in fact very accommodating to a PT. His problems only start when the true PT-spirit leaves him.

---------------

Maestro

JR Texas (51, USA): Very clever.......interesting.......never thought of it that way Maetro. The globalization of the economy has created a global economy and the vast majority are not benefitting from it. In order to cope with the economic problems generated by the "system," a system that is rigged to benefit the top 1% in virtually every country, migration has skyrocketed. In Thailand's case, many migrate legally....getting Non-O's or Non-B's and try to work/start a business and/or support a Thai wife, etc. Others try to deal with it (legally) by getting Tourists visas (single, double) over and over again. Still other try to cope by doing (legal) border runs and getting visa exempt stamps. And finally, a growing number try to cope by crossing into Thailand illegally....this is a major problem in Thailand along the Lao PDR-Thailand border and the Cambodia-Thailand border. The illegal migrants are clearly a problem, but they do provide services in fishing and agriculture and construction and entertainment venues (especially girls along the border). Thais, of course, know this. Same as in USA where migrants from Mexico do all sorts of jobs American do not want to do. The PT (perpetual tourist) issue is not a problem in my view. But Thailand has decided to make it a problem, perhaps for the reasons you stated. The real problem now, it seems to me, is the gap between the PT and the Non-O/Bs. Many people do not want to be PTs, but they also are unable to meet the requirement sfor getting Non-O/Bs. In some cases they have the money to start a business and therefore meet the requirements for a long-term visa, but they simply do not want to deal with all of the red tape (it seems Thailand wants to do everything in its power to prevent expats from working legally in the Kingdom). What is needed, I think, is a shift in thinking and a shift in visa rules/regulations that will help these people live in Thailand legally. That means "lowering the bar." Of course, the exact opposite is happening and that is hurting many people at the moment. Another way of looking at this: If PTs are a problem, enact a set of visa/rules and regulations that make it easy for them to obtain long-term visa solutions. I hope my point is clear. Any idea what such changes would entail?

On a different matter: Is the new system going to make "those in the loop" more or less money than the old system? I think it will cause them to lose a lot of money. Since people are self interested, I think this will eventually cause a shift back to the old system. Financially, it makes no sense to me. It also makes no sense to me if the reason for the changes is to thwart crime.

Best wishes,

JR

[Hublet]

With regards to your friend Sanook1 #post 20 she is in some serious trouble if that is her response to the new laws. Two points on this:

1/ For everyday that she overstays she is liable for 500Baht per day with no cap. There used to be a cap of 20,000Baht but bot any more. This is why there are so many foreigners inside Thailand who can no longer leave even if they wanted to

and

2/ If she is running an internet cafe then she is paying money under the table because this is a licence required acticvity which belongs to the Realm of the Thais.

This is precisely the type of person the true Government want gone. They are taking the jobs of Thais (this is illegal) and staying in a country (not her own) illegally.

The saddest thing I have ever seen is a white farang man sitting on the steps of a vry large building in Bangkok with his obviously expensive and professional camera set up next to him with a for sale sign on it. When things get so bad and you stuff up so badly that you have to sell the very thing that earn you money to live on I just hope that if it sells the money will be used to go home. I know a few farangs inside Thailand who are now beyond the point of no return and they do not like it but they have no choice but to remain in the underworld and there they will probably die. I think its great that Thailand is finally cramping down and at least trying to do something about the freeloaders. Unfortunately others (who are trying to do the right thing) get caught up in it as well and lose everything, myself included. I at least managed to get out.

Go for it Thailand. You want tourist dollars but not free loaders and criminals.

[PREM-R]

For everyday that she overstays she is liable for 500Baht per day with no cap. There used to be a cap of 20,000Baht but bot any more. This is why there are so many foreigners inside Thailand who can no longer leave even if they wanted to

Not true, the daily rate was raised to 500 baht but the 20,000 baht 'cap' is still in place. Problems arrise for 'massive' overstayers as they cannot pay their fine at a land border, if they attempt to do so, I am infomed by a Nong Khai immigration officer, that the police are to be called and the offender to be arrested. The only way to clear a 'big' overstay is at the airport in BKK and then leave the country

[Firefan]

1. cap is still 20k

2. foreigner can manage an internet cafe

Cheers!

[sanook1]

...i am a global perpetual tourist!

The concept of the perpetual tourist or perpetual traveller (PT) is based on the principle that the PT never stays in any one country long enough to become liable for tax payment in that country. Books have been written on this subject.

The countries of this planet are not ready for the PT. That’s where your “global” comes in. You can be a PT, but not in Thailand, or any other country, alone. A PT has to move from country to country, staying in every country no longer than the laws and regulations permit a tourist to stay.

The problem of a PT begins when he falls in love with a particular country, makes it his base, and wants to stay longer at a time than this country considers sufficient for the purpose of tourism.

The PT must not have a home in any country. He does not travel in order to return, but to move on, which is not to say that every once in while his travels may bring him to a country to which he travelled before. The true PT has no difficulty complying with Thailand’s immigration rules, which are in fact very accommodating to a PT. His problems only start when the true PT-spirit leaves him.

---------------

Maestro

JR Texas (51, USA): Very clever.......interesting.......never thought of it that way Maetro. The globalization of the economy has created a global economy and the vast majority are not benefitting from it. In order to cope with the economic problems generated by the "system," a system that is rigged to benefit the top 1% in virtually every country, migration has skyrocketed. In Thailand's case, many migrate legally....getting Non-O's or Non-B's and try to work/start a business and/or support a Thai wife, etc. Others try to deal with it (legally) by getting Tourists visas (single, double) over and over again. Still other try to cope by doing (legal) border runs and getting visa exempt stamps. And finally, a growing number try to cope by crossing into Thailand illegally....this is a major problem in Thailand along the Lao PDR-Thailand border and the Cambodia-Thailand border. The illegal migrants are clearly a problem, but they do provide services in fishing and agriculture and construction and entertainment venues (especially girls along the border). Thais, of course, know this. Same as in USA where migrants from Mexico do all sorts of jobs American do not want to do. The PT (perpetual tourist) issue is not a problem in my view. But Thailand has decided to make it a problem, perhaps for the reasons you stated. The real problem now, it seems to me, is the gap between the PT and the Non-O/Bs. Many people do not want to be PTs, but they also are unable to meet the requirement sfor getting Non-O/Bs. In some cases they have the money to start a business and therefore meet the requirements for a long-term visa, but they simply do not want to deal with all of the red tape (it seems Thailand wants to do everything in its power to prevent expats from working legally in the Kingdom). What is needed, I think, is a shift in thinking and a shift in visa rules/regulations that will help these people live in Thailand legally. That means "lowering the bar." Of course, the exact opposite is happening and that is hurting many people at the moment. Another way of looking at this: If PTs are a problem, enact a set of visa/rules and regulations that make it easy for them to obtain long-term visa solutions. I hope my point is clear. Any idea what such changes would entail?

On a different matter: Is the new system going to make "those in the loop" more or less money than the old system? I think it will cause them to lose a lot of money. Since people are self interested, I think this will eventually cause a shift back to the old system. Financially, it makes no sense to me. It also makes no sense to me if the reason for the changes is to thwart crime.

Best wishes,

JR

maybe you should re-read the post about her

[sting01]

With regards to your friend Sanook1 #post 20 she is in some serious trouble if that is her response to the new laws. Two points on this:

1/ For everyday that she overstays she is liable for 500Baht per day with no cap. There used to be a cap of 20,000Baht but bot any more. This is why there are so many foreigners inside Thailand who can no longer leave even if they wanted to

and

2/ If she is running an internet cafe then she is paying money under the table because this is a licence required acticvity which belongs to the Realm of the Thais.

This is precisely the type of person the true Government want gone. They are taking the jobs of Thais (this is illegal) and staying in a country (not her own) illegally.

The saddest thing I have ever seen is a white farang man sitting on the steps of a vry large building in Bangkok with his obviously expensive and professional camera set up next to him with a for sale sign on it. When things get so bad and you stuff up so badly that you have to sell the very thing that earn you money to live on I just hope that if it sells the money will be used to go home. I know a few farangs inside Thailand who are now beyond the point of no return and they do not like it but they have no choice but to remain in the underworld and there they will probably die. I think its great that Thailand is finally cramping down and at least trying to do something about the freeloaders. Unfortunately others (who are trying to do the right thing) get caught up in it as well and lose everything, myself included. I at least managed to get out.

Go for it Thailand. You want tourist dollars but not free loaders and criminals.

Another one.

You are thai, and you simply want the farang to go. Racism? Nationalism? Facism maybe?

On the very same time, you are certaily complaining about the visa regulation in EU or USA. do you?

For about 30 % of the thai people, the words WORK, WORKING and WORKER are considered as insult. Have to work is related to poor people, or to low class people. Complaining about a farang who take work from a thai? That is impossible, or of you really think so, read my comment above about how those words/concepts are understood by a part of the thai population.

Even if she owne a cyber, she will provide work for the thai staffs (what farang will accept to work for 5k bht? lol, only thai staffs will do it, anyway staff in a cyber mostly play games, chat online, or watchthe tv (if not eating some insects)). Deregatory? No sir, take a look at the cybers in Suk, or those in Pracha Songkro/Inthamara. In more if she is overstaying, she would have certainly secure her back (providing some tea money to the right people, by so improve the shopping power of those persons or their wife/mia noi/gigs and eventually iimprove the thai economy).

On the other hand, I repeat overstaying is NOT a valid option, too much risky.

[JR Texas]

JR Texas (51, USA): Very clever.......interesting.......never thought of it that way Maetro. The globalization of the economy has created a global economy and the vast majority are not benefitting from it. In order to cope with the economic problems generated by the "system," a system that is rigged to benefit the top 1% in virtually every country, migration has skyrocketed. In Thailand's case, many migrate legally....getting Non-O's or Non-B's and try to work/start a business and/or support a Thai wife, etc. Others try to deal with it (legally) by getting Tourists visas (single, double) over and over again. Still other try to cope by doing (legal) border runs and getting visa exempt stamps. And finally, a growing number try to cope by crossing into Thailand illegally....this is a major problem in Thailand along the Lao PDR-Thailand border and the Cambodia-Thailand border. The illegal migrants are clearly a problem, but they do provide services in fishing and agriculture and construction and entertainment venues (especially girls along the border). Thais, of course, know this. Same as in USA where migrants from Mexico do all sorts of jobs American do not want to do. The PT (perpetual tourist) issue is not a problem in my view. But Thailand has decided to make it a problem, perhaps for the reasons you stated. The real problem now, it seems to me, is the gap between the PT and the Non-O/Bs. Many people do not want to be PTs, but they also are unable to meet the requirement sfor getting Non-O/Bs. In some cases they have the money to start a business and therefore meet the requirements for a long-term visa, but they simply do not want to deal with all of the red tape (it seems Thailand wants to do everything in its power to prevent expats from working legally in the Kingdom). What is needed, I think, is a shift in thinking and a shift in visa rules/regulations that will help these people live in Thailand legally. That means "lowering the bar." Of course, the exact opposite is happening and that is hurting many people at the moment. Another way of looking at this: If PTs are a problem, enact a set of visa/rules and regulations that make it easy for them to obtain long-term visa solutions. I hope my point is clear. Any idea what such changes would entail?

On a different matter: Is the new system going to make "those in the loop" more or less money than the old system? I think it will cause them to lose a lot of money. Since people are self interested, I think this will eventually cause a shift back to the old system. Financially, it makes no sense to me. It also makes no sense to me if the reason for the changes is to thwart crime.

Best wishes,

JR

maybe you should re-read the post about her

JR Texas (51, USA): Sanook 1, I am assuming that message above is for me. If so, why? I am responding to your original post on this thread. The other stuff is not really interesting to me. I think there are much better ways of "dealing with crime" and the so-called "PT problem." The solutions are, in fact, simple. It is not that hard to create a win-win situation where Thailand improves its economy, creates much needed jobs, addresses crime, and foreigners are once again welcome in the Kingdom. The new rules and regulations are (on balance) not conducive to this. In fact, they are the type of rules I would implement if I wanted to harm the economy, reduce job creation, cause crime to increas and cause massive anger among foreigners towards the Thai government (not the people). What I am most curious about now is who will benefit financially from the changes. The old system resulted in huge profits for many people "in the loop." The new system will, in my view, generate only a fraction of the profits that the old system generated. People are going to lose money. Maybe if we could figure out who is actually going to benefit from the new changes, we can figure out WHY the changes took place and why they may not change even in the face of disaster. I do not think this is primarily about crime. And I have pointed out several changes that seem to have nothing to do with crime. Another is the change to business regulations, particularly small business regulations (see the other thread on this subject). How does thwarting small-scale entrepreneurship solve any crime problem? If you can't produce jobs, that might in fact lead to an increase in crime among the unemployed. Small-scaled businesses are the heart and soul of most economies worldwide. They generate the bulk of the jobs (over 90 percent in the USA). Thailand has yet to learn this.

Best wishes,

JR

[Thaddeus]

Small-scaled businesses are the heart and soul of most economies worldwide. They generate the bulk of the jobs (over 90 percent in the USA). Thailand has yet to learn this.

Best wishes,

JR

Unfortunately that could take a long time, so long that by the time someone realises that they may need to lose a little face to save the economy, it will be too late.

This is something I have never understood. There are shining examples in Asia (not even in the west) of places that have dragged themselves out of the doldrums and have a good working model for doing it.

But Thailand continues to try and re-invent the wheel from scratch and they end up with a Pool table with square balls...... I can't believe that everyone in authority in this Kingdom has the arrogance to think that they can 'do better themselves' than the likes of Singapore.

[englishoak]

But Thailand continues to try and re-invent the wheel from scratch and they end up with a Pool table with square balls...... I can't believe that everyone in authority in this Kingdom has the arrogance to think that they can 'do better themselves' than the likes of Singapore.

Realy ?I can

[drummer]

I agree JR Texas. This couldn't possible have anything to do with stopping criminal elements.

Thailand has land boundries totaling 4863km, bordering on 4 countries and coastline of 3219km. Thailand would be a breeze for criminal elements to slip in and out of without detection.

If you are from the West that makes sense, but Thailand's social system is very very different. Your current status in this life is affected by the merit you colected in your last life. If you don't have the money to afford the expensive visas, have the work permits, etc etc etc then you are obviously unlucky and poor, and therefore you were a criminal in your past life. If you were a criminal in your past life, theres a good chance you are a criminal in this one.

Therefore ... Get rid of poor people, and you get rid of the criminals.

This is why Thaksin could get away with what he did for so long - people just believed him ebcause his status indicates he was a real mensch in his last life. He only really ran himself into trouble when he was seen as not 'taking care' of the lower classes ... not paying his taxes, selling his company to a non-Thai, etc. (In exchange for the respect and trust higher classes have to take care of the lower classes. )

Of course, as Westerners, this makes no logical sense whatsoever to us - but it is perfectly logical to Thais. As westerners, we tend to think of everyopne as equal and having a roughly equal propensity toward good or bad, regardless of economic status - (however qualified by opportunity and intelligence).

[JR Texas]

I agree JR Texas. This couldn't possible have anything to do with stopping criminal elements.

Thailand has land boundries totaling 4863km, bordering on 4 countries and coastline of 3219km. Thailand would be a breeze for criminal elements to slip in and out of without detection.

If you are from the West that makes sense, but Thailand's social system is very very different. Your current status in this life is affected by the merit you colected in your last life. If you don't have the <a href="http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/search/money">money</a> to afford the expensive visas, have the <a href="http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/?=work">work</a> permits, etc etc etc then you are obviously unlucky and poor, and therefore you were a criminal in your past life. If you were a criminal in your past life, theres a good chance you are a criminal in this one.

Therefore ... Get rid of poor people, and you get rid of the criminals.

This is why Thaksin could get away with what he did for so long - people just believed him ebcause his status indicates he was a real mensch in his last life. He only really ran himself into trouble when he was seen as not 'taking care' of the lower classes ... not paying his <a href="http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/?=taxes">taxes</a>, selling his company to a non-Thai, etc. (In exchange for the respect and trust higher classes have to take care of the lower classes. )

Of course, as Westerners, this makes no logical sense whatsoever to us - but it is perfectly logical to Thais. As westerners, we tend to think of everyopne as equal and having a roughly equal propensity toward good or bad, regardless of economic status - (however qualified by opportunity and intelligence).

JR Texas (51, USA): "Get rid of poor people, and you get rid of the criminals." Interesting comment Drummer. I think much of what you just said is correct. Buddhism seems to embrace the concept that rich people are rich because they are have been good in this life or the previous one. And poor people are poor because they have been bad in this life or the previous one. OK, using Thai logic (oh the horror!!!!!), we must conclude that the poor (obviously bad) Buddhist Monks must now leave Thailand. In fact, rumour has it that in order to solve the crime problem the Immigration Dept. is currently drafting an amendment that will soon order all of them to leave the country. More seriously, we all know that, next to Christians in the USA, the biggest religious hypocrites on the planet are Thais. I am not an expert on Buddhism, but the moral foundation of it seems to be fading in Thailand. I see a lot of Thais "going through the motions" of Buddhism. I see very few of them "living it," especially with regard to their attitude towards foreigners and the poor. Thais have become extremely self-interested (like Americans).

Best wishes,

JR

[drummer]

Well, Thai Buddhism, anyway. But that is another discussion. There are more Buddhists than Christians, and there are just as many or more varieties (sects).

I do know other secs believe that what you are in this life is a result of a mistake in the last... if you are poor in this life, maybe you were rich and snobby in the last - if you are very good looking, maybe you were very jealous in a previous life.

Still others take other animals into consideration.... a axe murderer doesn't just get sent to Issan for the nex life, maybe they become a cockroach.

OK, using Thai logic (oh the horror!!!!!), we must conclude that the poor (obviously bad) Buddhist Monks must now leave Thailand.

Actually, that would be a misapplication of Western logic, not Thai logic at all. The monks are earning merit ... something that anyone - regardless od status - can and should do - and, moreover, is very honorable to do so.

I am not an expert on Buddhism, but the moral foundation of it seems to be fading in Thailand. I see a lot of Thais "going through the motions" of Buddhism

That is true everywhere in the world, my friend. MOST people, regardless of creed or nationality merely 'go through the motions' of faith. To a "free thinking" Westerner, it is easier than actually bothering to think everything out. But this is not new nor will it ever change. Ive noticed the same thing in political parties as much as religion. IMHO, the 'moral foundation' of Thailand is very very strong - just look at the reaction to the coup and the reverence to HM the King.

Not to be combatative, but I would like to point out that you tend to apply your own thinking to others without actually trying to understand them. This seems to me to be a little 'self interested'.

I don't pretend to understand Thais well - and I don't pretend to think I ever will. However, I at least try to put myself in their shoes to the best of my ability....

[JR Texas]

Well, Thai Buddhism, anyway. But that is another discussion. There are more Buddhists than Christians, and there are just as many or more varieties (sects).

I do know other secs believe that what you are in this life is a result of a mistake in the last... if you are poor in this life, maybe you were rich and snobby in the last - if you are very good looking, maybe you were very jealous in a previous life.

Still others take other animals into consideration.... a axe murderer doesn't just get sent to Issan for the nex life, maybe they become a cockroach.

OK, using Thai logic (oh the horror!!!!!), we must conclude that the poor (obviously bad) Buddhist Monks must now leave Thailand.

Actually, that would be a misapplication of Western logic, not Thai logic at all. The monks are earning merit ... something that anyone - regardless od status - can and should do - and, moreover, is very honorable to do so.

I am not an expert on Buddhism, but the moral foundation of it seems to be fading in Thailand. I see a lot of Thais "going through the motions" of Buddhism

That is true everywhere in the world, my <a href="http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/friend">friend</a>. MOST people, regardless of creed or nationality merely 'go through the motions' of faith. To a "free thinking" Westerner, it is easier than actually bothering to think everything out. But this is not new nor will it ever change. Ive noticed the same thing in political parties as much as religion. IMHO, the 'moral foundation' of Thailand is very very strong - just look at the reaction to the coup and the reverence to HM the King.

Not to be combatative, but I would like to point out that you tend to apply your own thinking to others without actually trying to understand them. This seems to me to be a little 'self interested'.

I don't pretend to understand Thais well - and I don't pretend to think I ever will. However, I at least try to put myself in their shoes to the best of my ability....

JR Texas (51, USA): "...apply your own thinking to others without actually trying to understand them." Actually, I am trying very hard to understand why these rule changes have taken place. And I am constantly trying to "put myself in their shoes to the best of my ability." The precise opposite of what you stated. That aside, do you have any comment about why these rules changes have taken place and how they are related to Thai logic? Thanks.

Best wishes,

JR

[Steph1012]

I can see the ads now:

Apartments to let ,

Phnom Penh, Seam Reap & Sihanoukville, 90 day rentals.

Timeshare, anyone?

Thats right mate.

And the other side to this will be...

Appartments to let in Phuket, Pattaya, Bangkok, Udon etc. etc. etc. When we are all in Cambodia!!!

The Thais will love this loss of income as it will be massive and sudden in the early part of next year. the thing that will really piss off the Thai Landlords is that they cannot then change tack and get everybody back.

Be sure that expat communities will expand in bordering countries.

[Maestro]

Not true, the daily rate was raised to 500 baht but the 20,000 baht 'cap' is still in place.

Correct. For those interested, the maximum penalty for overstaying is defined by the Immigration Act of 1979 and has remained unchanged since then:

Section 81 : Any alien who stay in the Kingdom without permission or with permission expired or revoked shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding two years or a fine not exceeding 20,000 Baht or both.

The previous 300 Baht/day and current 500 Baht/day, always maximum 20K, are within the limits of the law. I have seen no reports of the maximum penalty allowed by the law being applied, i.e. 20K fine and two years in prison, but it can do no harm to remember that this option is there in the law.

---------------

Maestro

[Hublet]

Reply to Sting01

Did I hit a nerve?????

You are so wrong.

How long have you been in Thailand?

Where have you been living?

Under a rock maybe?

Where did you get your figures? And what right do you have to berate and demean the Thais?

For about 30 % of the thai people, the words WORK, WORKING and WORKER are considered as insult. Have to work is related to poor people, or to low class people. Complaining about a farang who take work from a thai? That is impossible...

Really and why are you in Thailand?

To stay open and stay in Thailand she will be doing more than

providing some tea money to the right people...

And you think this is okay?????

You really need to add to your circle of friends, read more and get out more.

[drummer]

JR Texas (51, USA): "...apply your own thinking to others without actually trying to understand them." Actually, I am trying very hard to understand why these rule changes have taken place. And I am constantly trying to "put myself in their shoes to the best of my ability." The precise opposite of what you stated. That aside, do you have any comment about why these rules changes have taken place and how they are related to Thai logic? Thanks.

Best wishes,

JR

Sorry to have come off with the wrong opinion! All apologies. I have posted several times in the thread 'logic behind the new visa laws' http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...st&p=923949

And yes, I tried to relate them to Thai logic - although, strictly speaking, Thai's do not have an analog to the word 'logic'. IMHO, it would be beter to refer to the Thai rationale using words that Thai's have ... it lends itself toward understanding to use good metaphors.

[tutsiwarrior]

edit// deleted...don't want to generalize my own problems...

Edited November 3, 2006 by tutsiwarrior

[Pakboong]

JR Texas (51, USA): "...apply your own thinking to others without actually trying to understand them." Actually, I am trying very hard to understand why these rule changes have taken place. And I am constantly trying to "put myself in their shoes to the best of my ability." The precise opposite of what you stated. That aside, do you have any comment about why these rules changes have taken place and how they are related to Thai logic? Thanks.

Best wishes,

JR

Sorry to have come off with the wrong opinion! All apologies. I have posted several times in the thread 'logic behind the new visa laws' http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...st&p=923949

And yes, I tried to relate them to Thai logic - although, strictly speaking, Thai's do not have an analog to the word 'logic'. IMHO, it would be beter to refer to the Thai rationale using words that Thai's have ... it lends itself toward understanding to use good metaphors.

It may help if you don't try to lump all Thais together. Each level of their socio-economic structure has a different adjenda. The Urban professional is driving the train right now. They feel they have a vastly disproportionate share of the tax burden. They feel that Farangs and both the urban and rural poor pay little or no taxes. They were the group most affected when Thaksin paid no taxes on his $2 billion sale of the Shin Corp.

These urban professionals feel in general that, Farangs spend most of their tax free money on the poor and the urban professional has to maintian the countries infrastrution pretty much on their own.

The poor circulate their tax free money among themselves.

Imagine being a Thai from a good famliy with a masters degree and a 50,000 baht a month salary but you can't afford a 5 million baht home. You can't send your child to a private school and when you try, you find out your neighbors are Farangs and their rural poor wives and girlfriends. The school you send your kids to is full of half farang kids whose mothers are from Issan.

If you are a Thai teacher with a bachelors degree, you can start teaching at 10-14,000 baht a month while a farang with no degree supporting an Issan girlfriend can make at least twice that amount.

Imagine everywhere you look you see old farangs holding hands with Issan farm girls half their age. Try and imagine how disgusted these people get from this. They can't compete on a level playing field and are really fed up with it.

Imagine your neighbor an Issan lady driving around your village in a new car sporting a large diamond and decked out in gold. Your 60,000 baht a month salary allows you none of these advantages.

You would like to someday buy a resort home or condo but the Farangs and their rural poor girlfriends and boyfriends have driven the price out of sight for your meager 60,000 baht a month. The only solution is to restrict the Farang and force the poor back to their roots.

It is not nearly as simple as these examples imply but the message is getting clearer as time passes.

I was provided much of this information some 30 years ago by a gentleman who later became a deputy prime minister commenting on why the Americans were asked to leave Thailand in 1975. It was true then and seems just as true now. I must admit that I did not understand it in 1975 but now, it makes all the sense in the world.

[khall64au]

JR Texas (51, USA): "...apply your own thinking to others without actually trying to understand them." Actually, I am trying very hard to understand why these rule changes have taken place. And I am constantly trying to "put myself in their shoes to the best of my ability." The precise opposite of what you stated. That aside, do you have any comment about why these rules changes have taken place and how they are related to Thai logic? Thanks.

Best wishes,

JR

Sorry to have come off with the wrong opinion! All apologies. I have posted several times in the thread 'logic behind the new visa laws' http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...st&p=923949

And yes, I tried to relate them to Thai logic - although, strictly speaking, Thai's do not have an analog to the word 'logic'. IMHO, it would be beter to refer to the Thai rationale using words that Thai's have ... it lends itself toward understanding to use good metaphors.

It may help if you don't try to lump all Thais together. Each level of their socio-economic structure has a different adjenda. The Urban professional is driving the train right now. They feel they have a vastly disproportionate share of the tax burden. They feel that Farangs and both the urban and rural poor pay little or no taxes. They were the group most affected when Thaksin paid no taxes on his $2 billion sale of the Shin Corp.

These urban professionals feel in general that, Farangs spend most of their tax free money on the poor and the urban professional has to maintian the countries infrastrution pretty much on their own.

The poor circulate their tax free money among themselves.

Imagine being a Thai from a good famliy with a masters degree and a 50,000 baht a month salary but you can't afford a 5 million baht home. You can't send your child to a private school and when you try, you find out your neighbors are Farangs and their rural poor wives and girlfriends. The school you send your kids to is full of half farang kids whose mothers are from Issan.

If you are a Thai teacher with a bachelors degree, you can start teaching at 10-14,000 baht a month while a farang with no degree supporting an Issan girlfriend can make at least twice that amount.

Imagine everywhere you look you see old farangs holding hands with Issan farm girls half their age. Try and imagine how disgusted these people get from this. They can't compete on a level playing field and are really fed up with it.

Imagine your neighbor an Issan lady driving around your village in a new car sporting a large diamond and decked out in gold. Your 60,000 baht a month salary allows you none of these advantages.

You would like to someday buy a resort home or condo but the Farangs and their rural poor girlfriends and boyfriends have driven the price out of sight for your meager 60,000 baht a month. The only solution is to restrict the Farang and force the poor back to their roots.

It is not nearly as simple as these examples imply but the message is getting clearer as time passes.

I was provided much of this information some 30 years ago by a gentleman who later became a deputy prime minister commenting on why the Americans were asked to leave Thailand in 1975. It was true then and seems just as true now. I must admit that I did not understand it in 1975 but now, it makes all the sense in the world.

It may help if you try not to lump all farangs together! Many of us are here because we wish to be.... and actually pay our taxes!

"These urban professionals feel in general that, Farangs spend most of their tax free money on the poor and the urban professional has to maintian the countries infrastrution pretty much on their own." - WHERE DO YOU GET THIS B/&lt;deleted&gt; FROM?/ learn to spell btw!?

tax free money????????? GET A LIFE!!!!!!!!

[TAWP]

The face of Thai tourism will change.

No, it wont. Friends and families of mine that have been here on vacation all have been here less then 30 days, usually around 2 weeks.

Staying for a year on tourist-VISA is clearly fishy.

[lapamita]

THE PROPERTY AMRKET IS ALREADY HARD HIT IN TOURISM AREAS,,prices expect to fall sharply within end of high season!!!

i am living on TR visa, and 1 year visas ( since 04 cant extend based on old laws until 04), maybe am not the typical TR stayer on tied budget, but even for me the unsure and everchanginglwas and regulations bring me to the point to sell and keep no assets expect a smaller condo here.

the good thing i was buying in 1999 and 2001/02,,, and now i can sell even without a loss, even when i decrease price 60%.

the fact is

from the SELL able price last year i cut already 30% off,,,, there is not any buying intrest from foreigners now!!

-- 6 ads in pattayamail and 5 ads in others bring 0 CALLS

--at the condossalesoffice only thais intrested with cash offers around 50% of last years SELLable price

when i not get ride of it , i reduce further in january. at this time i am the cheapest seller at the salesoffice, without intrest.

the biggest construction market, the salesmanager told me already, buissenes is cut 50% or more compare to last year,,and many others in the propertysector.

when speculants starting to selling the assets, than..........................

IT IS NOT THE VOA STAYERS HOW ARE RELLY TE BUYERS, BUT the sentiment is complety cracked down of visarules, and the LAND MARKET is already damaged completly since last year august by introducing new rules.......................

PEOPLE ARE NOT BUYIMNG ON EVER CHANGING RULES AND REGULATIONS

MONEY NEED SAEFTY FIRST !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AND i would expect even more worse time,,, what is when the goverment introcude or force and old rule of 1979,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,then everything would colaps even to prices below 1999 levels...

nobody know here about the 1979 act B.E.2522 (1979)

BHUMIBOL ADULADEJ REX,21.04.1979,34th yaer of the preet regin

condominium act section 2

if they force this old law stating in section 2

" aliens are only aloud to buy 1 condominium for selfprurpose, not for rental or capitalgains/speculation

THE WORD IS ONLY 1 can legally owned

so if they force it,,,,, that foreigners must sell within a3 monthperiod or confiscate THAT would be the FINAL end!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TAWP]

Can anyone translate?

[sting01]

Reply to Sting01

Did I hit a nerve?????

You are so wrong.

How long have you been in Thailand?

Where have you been living?

Under a rock maybe?

Where did you get your figures? And what right do you have to berate and demean the Thais?

For about 30 % of the thai people, the words WORK, WORKING and WORKER are considered as insult. Have to work is related to poor people, or to low class people. Complaining about a farang who take work from a thai? That is impossible...

Really and why are you in Thailand?

To stay open and stay in Thailand she will be doing more than

providing some tea money to the right people...

And you think this is okay?????

You really need to add to your circle of friends, read more and get out more.

Unsure what to say, maybe I do not see relation on what I am doing in Thailand and the fact a part of the thai people do not consider work as a virtue. Btw us I work in thailand (sorry, not a sexpat, not a early retired nor even a corporate person).

About tea money, I invite you to go throught real the word. Corruption is everywhere in Thailand, and it's not me who say that, I simply repeat what Bangkok Post and the Nation are saying since years (btw us I do think the hightest authority of Thailand also adressed that problem recently).

It's easy to abuse someone , but it's trully more difficult to formulate a realistic idea that is corresponding the reality, and I would love to thank you to kindly remind us that with your higly inaccurate (foolish? moronic?) comments.

[dsfbrit]

It may help if you don't try to lump all Thais together. Each level of their socio-economic structure has a different adjenda. The Urban professional is driving the train right now. They feel they have a vastly disproportionate share of the tax burden. They feel that Farangs and both the urban and rural poor pay little or no taxes. They were the group most affected when Thaksin paid no taxes on his $2 billion sale of the Shin Corp.

These urban professionals feel in general that, Farangs spend most of their tax free money on the poor and the urban professional has to maintian the countries infrastrution pretty much on their own.

The poor circulate their tax free money among themselves.

Imagine being a Thai from a good famliy with a masters degree and a 50,000 baht a month salary but you can't afford a 5 million baht home. You can't send your child to a private school and when you try, you find out your neighbors are Farangs and their rural poor wives and girlfriends. The school you send your kids to is full of half farang kids whose mothers are from Issan.

If you are a Thai teacher with a bachelors degree, you can start teaching at 10-14,000 baht a month while a farang with no degree supporting an Issan girlfriend can make at least twice that amount.

Imagine everywhere you look you see old farangs holding hands with Issan farm girls half their age. Try and imagine how disgusted these people get from this. They can't compete on a level playing field and are really fed up with it.

Imagine your neighbor an Issan lady driving around your village in a new car sporting a large diamond and decked out in gold. Your 60,000 baht a month salary allows you none of these advantages.

You would like to someday buy a resort home or condo but the Farangs and their rural poor girlfriends and boyfriends have driven the price out of sight for your meager 60,000 baht a month. The only solution is to restrict the Farang and force the poor back to their roots.

It is not nearly as simple as these examples imply but the message is getting clearer as time passes.

I was provided much of this information some 30 years ago by a gentleman who later became a deputy prime minister commenting on why the Americans were asked to leave Thailand in 1975. It was true then and seems just as true now. I must admit that I did not understand it in 1975 but now, it makes all the sense in the world.

It may help if you try not to lump all farangs together! Many of us are here because we wish to be.... and actually pay our taxes!

"These urban professionals feel in general that, Farangs spend most of their tax free money on the poor and the urban professional has to maintian the countries infrastrution pretty much on their own." - WHERE DO YOU GET THIS B/&lt;deleted&gt; FROM?/ learn to spell btw!?

tax free money????????? GET A LIFE!!!!!!!!

I think Pakboong sums up a lot of what is actually going on here in Thailand - although I dont like to hear it.

I am almost the exact profile of the farang described - but dont have kids. I am retired, wife from Isaan, house 6 million Baht, Pattaya and dont pay taxes as I legally dont have to on my pension - paid in UK.

There are a lot of us farang like this retired here in Pattaya.

My Thai neighbours also fit the profile - smaller houses etc...

What I find about the description that rings true to me - is that the emotions of the Thais described is similar to the emotions I had in the UK relating to contributing to a system (via taxes - National Insurance- Council Tax etc...) disproportionatley and reasons I retired at the age of 50.

I resented paying increasingly more into a sytem that increasingly gave mddle income earners like me less and less back.

It makes me feel a little uneasy about the future - mind you a lot of things going on in Thailand at the moment have not actually given a warm glowy feeling I have to say.

[JR Texas]

Can anyone translate?

JR Texas (51, USA): Reply to Tawp regading Lopamita's comments: I will give it a try......Lopamita is saying the condo/property market in Thailand is on the decline due to the instability/uncertainty created by constant changes in Thai law, political leadership changes (overthrow of government), and unfriendly attitude towards foreigners. And Lopamita is suggesting that if an old law is implemented,

1979 act B.E.2522 (is this real?), it will all but destroy the real estate business in Thailand. My apologies to Lopamita if I have made mistakes in the interpretation. If Thailand's economy goes into a tailspin and the resulting social unrest becomes too much to bear, the government might decide to dust off that piece of legislation and activate it. If that law is real and they implement it.......ouch! I can't see this happening any time soon, but you never know. Things seem a bit crazy at the moment. I can't figure out why this government is doing what it is doing. To me, it seems like a good way to ruin an economy. But that is my view.