My new house doesn't have an address yet

[RealityPivots]

I'll be going in for my 90 day report on a Retirement extension of stay soon. It will be the first time since we completed our house north of Chiang Mai. That house doesn't have an address yet. How can I have my wife register me as a lodger without an address? We live at the point of a Y where there is an intersection of two streets. Could I use that as an identifier?

I still have my apartment in Chiang Mai where I am registered but my step-daughter is living there now.

[ubonjoe]

It would probably be best to use your apartment address for your 90 day report. Then after you have a house number do a change of address at immigration.

You have to have a house number in order for it to be a valid address.

[RealityPivots]

Thanks. That is what I would like to do. KISS -- Keep It Simple Stupid.

[Evilbaz]

I don't understand how you can get a building permit and/or electricity connected without at least a Lot number/address?

[offset]

I don't understand how you can get a building permit and/or electricity connected without at least a Lot number/address?

A lot of houses in the villages are built without a house permit you just get permission from the head of the village who can also give you a number for the house

[BritTim]

I don't understand how you can get a building permit and/or electricity connected without at least a Lot number/address?

Up country Thailand building permit?

[DipStick]

So I guess you could be classified as " having no fixed abode"

[Eclipse]

We live in an Isaan village and got the house book before the first block was laid.

[55Jay]

Sounds like a bad feng shui location. You better ask the monks for a lucky house number.

[RealityPivots]

I don't understand how you can get a building permit and/or electricity connected without at least a Lot number/address?

A lot of houses in the villages are built without a house permit you just get permission from the head of the village who can also give you a number for the ho

Thanks to all for the replies to my first posting.

This comment by Offset speaks to my situation. We got permission from the village head to build and everything flowed from that -- water hookup (both agricultural water and village supply) and electricity. It all happened through my wife who has lots of friends here. However, we don't seem able to get a street number because we don't have a proper/chenote? deed -- that we may get off in the future if the government looks things over and approves.

But what to do until then?

I am pretty clueless about the situation but things are working out pretty well. The house is OK and I've got TILE -- something I've always wanted but didn't make sense in the northern part of the U.S.

[BritTim]

I hope your wife has a valid chanote on the land. If not, just holding on to the land and the house might require some serious "negotiation" with the officials in the future. I seriously recommend you verify the current status of the land. (If not chanote, does your wife have a lesser formal claim? How long has your wife's family occupied the land?) Once you have ascertained the facts, a brief conversation with a good lawyer may be prudent before deciding what to do further.

[LukKrueng]

The legal process for building a house (it might change a bit from province to province / district to district, but would generally be about the same):

1. You draw the house plans

2. You apply for building permit at the sub district offices (tambon)

3.Once the house is built and completed you apply for a house number from the village head (who is supposed to inspect the place and acknowledge the fact that the house is actually built, but in most cases they'll just take your word for it.

4. Th village head will sign some documents to the fact that the house is built

5. You take these documents to the district office (ampoe) which will issue the blue house registration book.

6. At this stage you can add the people who will be registered as living in the house to the blue book (or you can live it empty)

All above is for land with title deed (chanot) only (might also apply for N.S.3 - not sure about that).

There are so many different land documents in Thailand, issued in different time period by different authorities. Most of those papers give limited rights of land use - mostly for agricultural use, and actual living on the land / building houses is not permitted. You have to verify what type of document your wife holds and what category of land you hold

[greenchair]

I hope your wife has a valid chanote on the land. If not, just holding on to the land and the house might require some serious "negotiation" with the officials in the future. I seriously recommend you verify the current status of the land. (If not chanote, does your wife have a lesser formal claim? How long has your wife's family occupied the land?) Once you have ascertained the facts, a brief conversation with a good lawyer may be prudent before deciding what to do further.

I agree. Something wrong here. How did he get the house book with no address and no chanote. I wouldn't trust the word of anyone in Thailand, especially of the headman and the wife.

[greenchair]

I think you have been scammed.

Sorry.

[sometimewoodworker]

The legal process for building a house (it might change a bit from province to province / district to district, but would generally be about the same):

1. You draw the house plans

2. You apply for building permit at the sub district offices (tambon)

3.Once the house is built and completed you apply for a house number from the village head (who is supposed to inspect the place and acknowledge the fact that the house is actually built, but in most cases they'll just take your word for it.

4. Th village head will sign some documents to the fact that the house is built

5. You take these documents to the district office (ampoe) which will issue the blue house registration book.

6. At this stage you can add the people who will be registered as living in the house to the blue book (or you can live it empty)

All above is for land with title deed (chanot) only (might also apply for N.S.3 - not sure about that).

There are so many different land documents in Thailand, issued in different time period by different authorities. Most of those papers give limited rights of land use - mostly for agricultural use, and actual living on the land / building houses is not permitted. You have to verify what type of document your wife holds and what category of land you hold

In many places, ours is one, if you live far enough from town number 1 and 2 do not apply, Number 3 is from the land office here. It makes no difference which tile you hold, we happen to have Chanote land.

[ubonjoe]

I don't understand how you can get a building permit and/or electricity connected without at least a Lot number/address?

A lot of houses in the villages are built without a house permit you just get permission from the head of the village who can also give you a number for the ho

Thanks to all for the replies to my first posting.

This comment by Offset speaks to my situation. We got permission from the village head to build and everything flowed from that -- water hookup (both agricultural water and village supply) and electricity. It all happened through my wife who has lots of friends here. However, we don't seem able to get a street number because we don't have a proper/chenote? deed -- that we may get off in the future if the government looks things over and approves.

But what to do until then?

I am pretty clueless about the situation but things are working out pretty well. The house is OK and I've got TILE -- something I've always wanted but didn't make sense in the northern part of the U.S.

Street numbers are not used in most villages. Just a house number and village number are used. For example 123/25 with 123 being the house number and 25 being the village number. Your address would be 123/25 Tambon Abcdf, Amphoe Ghijklm, Changwat Chiang Mai

If your wife has a has a house book you have a house number.

[petermik]

I don't understand how you can get a building permit and/or electricity connected without at least a Lot number/address?

A lot of houses in the villages are built without a house permit you just get permission from the head of the village who can also give you a number for the house

+1 same here GF went to the village head and he sorted it

[RealityPivots]

I think what Ubonjoe says about house numbers and village numbers might be the case here. It looks like the info I see on plaques outside houses.

And I think sometimewoodworker too is talking about my situation.

Oh, and my aside about having "TILE" was not a misspelling, just a small jest that is not appropriate when we are talking so much about "titles". duh.

[louse1953]

I don't understand how you can get a building permit and/or electricity connected without at least a Lot number/address?

A lot of houses in the villages are built without a house permit you just get permission from the head of the village who can also give you a number for the house

We told the poo yai,no probs there.When it came to the house number the missus just took the last 2 numbers of my car number plate,82.Postman's nightmare.

[RealityPivots]

FYI, the wife has gotten active and found out that we need to take 4 photos of the house, NSEW, have the head of the village sign them, take them to the sub-district office, and then the district office will send someone out to check the house and then we will get our address/house number.

[BritTim]

FYI, the wife has gotten active and found out that we need to take 4 photos of the house, NSEW, have the head of the village sign them, take them to the sub-district office, and then the district office will send someone out to check the house and then we will get our address/house number.

Did you verify that your wife has a chanote on the land? The concern may well be unfounded, but there are possible dire consequences if there is no land chanote.

[RealityPivots]

She definitely does not have chanote. We knew that when we started to build.

[greenchair]

FYI, the wife has gotten active and found out that we need to take 4 photos of the house, NSEW, have the head of the village sign them, take them to the sub-district office, and then the district office will send someone out to check the house and then we will get our address/house number.

Just because you have a house number doesn't mean you own the house. The blue book doesn't mean you own the house either, it is just verification of the people that live there. 10 people name could be on the house book, doesn't mean they own the house. The village head is often given government land to distribute and use as he sees fit to the village people. He does not own it. It is possible your wife has leased the land, to be taken back at a later date ( after your divorce ) just like a car must have ownership papers, so must a house have ownership papers. Called a chanote or land deed title.

[RealityPivots]

FYI, the wife has gotten active and found out that we need to take 4 photos of the house, NSEW, have the head of the village sign them, take them to the sub-district office, and then the district office will send someone out to check the house and then we will get our address/house number.

Just because you have a house number doesn't mean you own the house. The blue book doesn't mean you own the house either, it is just verification of the people that live there. 10 people name could be on the house book, doesn't mean they own the house. The village head is often given government land to distribute and use as he sees fit to the village people. He does not own it. It is possible your wife has leased the land, to be taken back at a later date ( after your divorce ) just like a car must have ownership papers, so must a house have ownership papers. Called a chanote or land deed title.

Hi Greenchair, you left the post earlier saying you thought I'd been scammed.

I thought of a reply since then, since I am a fan of mystery fiction -- I'd say you must be referring to the "long con" since it has been two years now.

Well, anything is possible but I don't think so.

I know there are different levels of ownership of property in Thailand. Ours is not of top quality but can become so -- with luck.

You are adding in a completely different argument that my wife may divorce me someday.

I have been lucky in life so I may be overly optimistic about the property.

I certainly regard myself as lucky to be sharing the creation of house and garden with my wife.

But we have gotten far afield from my initial question.

Cheers.

[greenchair]

FYI, the wife has gotten active and found out that we need to take 4 photos of the house, NSEW, have the head of the village sign them, take them to the sub-district office, and then the district office will send someone out to check the house and then we will get our address/house number.

Just because you have a house number doesn't mean you own the house. The blue book doesn't mean you own the house either, it is just verification of the people that live there. 10 people name could be on the house book, doesn't mean they own the house. The village head is often given government land to distribute and use as he sees fit to the village people. He does not own it. It is possible your wife has leased the land, to be taken back at a later date ( after your divorce ) just like a car must have ownership papers, so must a house have ownership papers. Called a chanote or land deed title.

Hi Greenchair, you left the post earlier saying you thought I'd been scammed.

I thought of a reply since then, since I am a fan of mystery fiction -- I'd say you must be referring to the "long con" since it has been two years now.

Well, anything is possible but I don't think so.

I know there are different levels of ownership of property in Thailand. Ours is not of top quality but can become so -- with luck.

You are adding in a completely different argument that my wife may divorce me someday.

I have been lucky in life so I may be overly optimistic about the property.

I certainly regard myself as lucky to be sharing the creation of house and garden with my wife.

But we have gotten far afield from my initial question.

Cheers.

The divorce comment was just a bit of a lark mate.

Actually I thought it might be you that would divorce her after you found out you were scammed.

Anyway it seems you are quite content as long as you have this house number to take to immy. Since your wife is arranging that for you, then you will probably be quite happy with your semi owned house. Therefore, if you are happy, so am I.

[BritTim]

I do not think you are going to take my advice, but I am going to repeat it anyway.

Find out if your wife (or her family) have any title to the land the house is built on. There are many forms of land title in Thailand, some of which make it very unclear what the boundaries of the plot of land are. If there is any official paper showing rights to occupy or use the land, take copies. Also, find out how long your wife's family has occupied the land. This is very important in some cases. Then make an appointment with a good Thai property lawyer who can tell you what legal rights your wife (you almost certainly have none) have to the land and house, and whether the house was built legally.

Unlike greenchair, I do not immediately suspect a scam (at least by your wife) but your assumption that your wife understands the complex and convoluted regulations around land ownership in Thailand may well be unfounded.

However friendly the headman of the village may be, it is not unlikely that keeping the house and the land will involve six figure under-the-table payments. Sorry but with no chanote, more likely than not.

[Eclipse]

You don't have to have a Chanote (Nor Sor 4) land deed to legally build a house.

It can also be legally built with Nor Sor 3 and Nor Sor 3 Gor.

My wife built her house on Nor Sor 3 and later got it upgraded to Nor Sor 4 (Chanote)

http://www.phuket.net/property/property-guide/land-titles/

Edited March 31, 2016 by Eclipse

[BritTim]

You don't have to have a Chanote (Nor Sor 4) land deed to legally build a house.

It can also be legally built with Nor Sor 3 and Nor Sor 3 Gor.

My wife built her house on Nor Sor 3 and later got it upgraded to Nor Sor 4 (Chanote)

http://www.phuket.net/property/property-guide/land-titles/

That is true. There are, however, rights of use of land (through lease for instance) that limit what you can do on the land. We really have no idea what the current status is. The family may have been in possession for 70 years, with no title, in which case a Sor Kor 1 notification may be all that is necessary to get title (as long as no one else contests the claim). In some cases, there are local regulations going back to before Nor Sor 3 even existed that can affect claims. Only a good property lawyer furnished with all the facts can tell the OP where his wife's family stands.

[Eclipse]

Yep they need to find out what they actually have.

[ubonjoe]

When we built our house in the village all my wife had was the original land purchase document from when she bought it so that her mother could build a house on it years before. We also bought an additional lot next to the existing lots. It was not until 7 or 8 years later that the land department came to the village to sort out ownership of almost the entire village. She got the title to it all the property about a year later.

When you are in rural areas the property ownership can take a long time to sort out.