euthanasia for dogs

[dick dasterdly]

People deal with these things in different ways Dick ,

I cant stand needles too !

Neither can I! When my dogs are given injections/blood taken, I look in their eyes as I can't bear to see the needle.

But I agree, we all deal with things in different ways. I didn't intend to put the other poster down as being uncaring - its v clear that he loves his dogs.

i have to have my INR done every month it makes my toes curl.

i think most of us have gone through so called vets,i can tell you stories that you cant make up.

in over 20yrs.of being a greyhound owner/trainer i hadnt had any problem with vets in the uk.

what makes me and the wife mad is they think we are so stupid to fall for their practice of,theiving,incompetance and lack of basic animal care.

if these were back in the uk.3 out of 5 would have been struck off.

as for the topic the reason why they wont perform EUTHANASIA is because thats the end of the gravy train.

wouldnt it be nice if we had a vet or two coming on thai visa to answer some of our complaints.

I disagree and think vets (nearly unanimously here) won't perform euthanasia because its against their religious beliefs. Which is why my first tip when selecting a vet is find one who has been educated abroad. Easy to determine as they speak good English and are more than happy to talk to us about our concerns.

Like you, I have horror stories - some from the UK and some here in Thailand. My original vet here in Thailand missed that my whippet's leg was broken and it still upsets me. I went back every day (thinking he had done an X-ray...) saying there's something wrong, but he kept saying it takes time...

It was only when my brother said are you sure he's done an X-ray? that I asked the question of the vet. Turns out he hadn't - and my dog's leg was broken... Its a shame because the vet is a v nice guy, but getting old - which is why I think he missed the obvious diagnostic test.

Incidentally (and off topic), my 'favourite' UK vet horror story is meeting her in a pub. We got talking and after a few drinks she admitted she had no interest in being a vet . I changed vets immediately as I did when the vet here didn't give my dog the obvious X-ray required.

Back on topic, there are vets that care enough to euthanise suffering animals - but you have to find them and pay more for all visits compared to the 'ordinary' vets.

It makes me wonder though, is it illegal for vets here to put down animals when the pet is suffering and nothing can be done?

[Sheryl]

I disagree and think vets (nearly unanimously here) won't perform euthanasia because its against their religious beliefs. ....

.....It makes me wonder though, is it illegal for vets here to put down animals when the pet is suffering and nothing can be done?

Not illegal AFAIK.

But Thais are not familiar with the idea, so would seldom ask for it and usually only Vets trained in the West would have had exposure to the practice.

Even then, they will be very hesitant. It is indeed related to Buddhism though not as simple or straightforward as some would think i.e. it is not that it is unquestionably, flat out against Buddhist beliefs. If you google pet euthanasia and Buddhism you will find pages of discussions on this, and some diversity of views.

However for sure, Buddhist belief/practice makes euthanizing an animal a much more difficult decision than it is for people without such a framework, and the threshold for being able to make such a decision is vastly higher. For some people, it is insurmountably high, for others, just very high but could be some cases which would surmount it. It is certainly a much more complex decision than for a non-Buddhist and requires a great deal of soul searching and serious inner examination.

And yes, it is emotionally wrenching - as it should be.

Frankly I think it has become overly accepted in the West and is over-used, I see and hear of people just doing it because an animal was old, or a little infirm, and certainly without having first tried every possible means of making the animal more comfortable or able to have some quality of life. Owner convenience often creeps into it...the point at which people decide to have a pet "put to sleep" (note the need for euphemism) often not coincidentally coincides with when the animal had become increasingly incontinent...which is not necessarily unbearable for the pet, just for the owner. Western Vets seem to almost euthanize on demand, I suppose in part because they fear that if they do not, the owner will neglect the animal causing a worse fate.

It has become so common in the West that many people reach for it as the first solution. It should never be that, it just be a very, very last resort and one turned to only under very extreme circumstances.

In the West now there is starting to be some hospice ("pawspice") care for animals which offers an alternative to euthanasia or at least a way to postpone/reduce the need for it. Unfortunately nothing of the sort in Thailand, there isn't even proper hospice care for humans yet. so this makes ti very difficult.

BTW I am a practicing Buddhist and recently made the decision to euthanize a dying pet, having first exhausted every possible treatment option. It was an extraordinarily hard to decision and if proper hospice care with morphine to relive distress had been an option I would have done that instead. As it is, I will always wonder if I did right. It seemed to be the best, or more accurately, the least worst, thing under the circumstances.

So I can empathize with how hard this decision is for a Thai Vet. As Buddhists there are concerns that would not enter into the equation for non-Buddhists, such as whether artificially overriding the natural timing of the death will have adverse karmic consequences for the animal, whether one can be 100% sure that one has absolutely no selfish motives influencing the choice, whether one is prepared to accept possible negative karmic consequences for oneself in order to relieve the animal's suffering. It is a heavy burden.

[Gandtee]

I disagree and think vets (nearly unanimously here) won't perform euthanasia because its against their religious beliefs. ....

.....It makes me wonder though, is it illegal for vets here to put down animals when the pet is suffering and nothing can be done?

Not illegal AFAIK.

But Thais are not familiar with the idea, so would seldom ask for it and usually only Vets trained in the West would have had exposure to the practice.

Even then, they will be very hesitant. It is indeed related to Buddhism though not as simple or straightforward as some would think i.e. it is not that it is unquestionably, flat out against Buddhist beliefs. If you google pet euthanasia and Buddhism you will find pages of discussions on this, and some diversity of views.

However for sure, Buddhist belief/practice makes euthanizing an animal a much more difficult decision than it is for people without such a framework, and the threshold for being able to make such a decision is vastly higher. For some people, it is insurmountably high, for others, just very high but could be some cases which would surmount it. It is certainly a much more complex decision than for a non-Buddhist and requires a great deal of soul searching and serious inner examination.

And yes, it is emotionally wrenching - as it should be.

Frankly I think it has become overly accepted in the West and is over-used, I see and hear of people just doing it because an animal was old, or a little infirm, and certainly without having first tried every possible means of making the animal more comfortable or able to have some quality of life. Owner convenience often creeps into it...the point at which people decide to have a pet "put to sleep" (note the need for euphemism) often not coincidentally coincides with when the animal had become increasingly incontinent...which is not necessarily unbearable for the pet, just for the owner. Western Vets seem to almost euthanize on demand, I suppose in part because they fear that if they do not, the owner will neglect the animal causing a worse fate.

It has become so common in the West that many people reach for it as the first solution. It should never be that, it just be a very, very last resort and one turned to only under very extreme circumstances.

In the West now there is starting to be some hospice ("pawspice") care for animals which offers an alternative to euthanasia or at least a way to postpone/reduce the need for it. Unfortunately nothing of the sort in Thailand, there isn't even proper hospice care for humans yet. so this makes ti very difficult.

BTW I am a practicing Buddhist and recently made the decision to euthanize a dying pet, having first exhausted every possible treatment option. It was an extraordinarily hard to decision and if proper hospice care with morphine to relive distress had been an option I would have done that instead. As it is, I will always wonder if I did right. It seemed to be the best, or more accurately, the least worst, thing under the circumstances.

So I can empathize with how hard this decision is for a Thai Vet. As Buddhists there are concerns that would not enter into the equation for non-Buddhists, such as whether artificially overriding the natural timing of the death will have adverse karmic consequences for the animal, whether one can be 100% sure that one has absolutely no selfish motives influencing the choice, whether one is prepared to accept possible negative karmic consequences for oneself in order to relieve the animal's suffering. It is a heavy burden.

I like and appreciate your comments, but how does Thailand's death penalty for humans equate with Buddhism? And is the Thai adage, regarding someone who is suffering, 'He must have done something bad in his previous life'. the reason for not tempting bad karma.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Gandtee

[loppylugs1]

In nature that dog would be long gone,kept alive in its hour of need by human kindness,but a suffering dog is a suffering dog. I should have put a couple of my past mutts to sleep far quicker and I regret not doing so

[meatboy]

In nature that dog would be long gone,kept alive in its hour of need by human kindness,but a suffering dog is a suffering dog. I should have put a couple of my past mutts to sleep far quicker and I regret not doing so

a suffering dog is a heart breaking experiance for anyone who loves and has to grin and bare it.one who has been loyal and protective to you its not a case of will you,my feelings are you MUST.

there's not a day goes by without my boy looking at me as to say i love you too.wether its me getting old and living a life thats behond my dreams i dont know.

i have always said on here PLEASE GOD LET ME GO FIRST.

there has been a lot said about buddhism,but the past few yrs.this has been abused by the some of the highest ranks.me and the wife has seen this first hand.

i have only spoke to one vet about this [euthanasia] he didnt take long to answer when i offered a large amount of cash.

as LL1 says he will suffer the pain for the rest of his life not doing what he should have.

my boy is only 5,me i wont see 71 again,so i would surely give my life to save my boy.

MEATBOY LOVE ME LOVE MY DOG.

pass the tissue love.

[loppylugs1]

Putting to sleep is a good term,effects the sleeping part of the brain then stops the heartbeat. Soi dog,well I looked after him, caught distemper,blood out of the nostrils,vomit all over the place,smelt to high heaven too weak to move,decided his time had come,shaved the leg,dug the hole,but held on to following morning,dog no worse on the day,but got better,glad I held out,dog still there,feed it still

[meatboy]

Putting to sleep is a good term,effects the sleeping part of the brain then stops the heartbeat. Soi dog,well I looked after him, caught distemper,blood out of the nostrils,vomit all over the place,smelt to high heaven too weak to move,decided his time had come,shaved the leg,dug the hole,but held on to following morning,dog no worse on the day,but got better,glad I held out,dog still there,feed it still

that is exactly how my little friend across the road was,i couldnt interfere as it wasnt ours,but to see it every day,lifeless,sick and yes he did smell.

he kept going for 4weeks like that then the night after he had a good dinner from me he passed away.

spoke to a vet as the owners kept saying its old age,B---OCKS it was parasite disease.

he did know because i had said goodbye to him 3times.and he to me.we all miss him in our house.as for the owners havnt spoke to them since.june28th.

[Sheryl]

I like and appreciate your comments, but how does Thailand's death penalty for humans equate with Buddhism? And is the Thai adage, regarding someone who is suffering, 'He must have done something bad in his previous life'. the reason for not tempting bad karma.

The death penalty does not equate with Buddhism. Buddhist teachings would allow for such a thing only if there was absolutely no other way to protect other people from harm, and obviously there are other ways i.e. prison.

Theft, murder, rape, prostitution, graft, lying politicians, greedy accumulation of wealth etc also do not equate with Buddhism, yet are certainly to be found here.

Not everything done in Thailand nor every (or arguably even most) parts of Thai law accord with Buddhist teachings. Anymore than laws and human behaviors in predominately Christian countries accord with Christianity.

The adage 'He must have done something bad in his previous life' sounds more to me like an excuse for not being compassionate. First of all, we have no way of knowing why someone is suffering, whether it is from karma accumulated in this life, or a past life, or not due to personal karma at all (after all ,everyone suffers in the course of life). Secondly, we have all done bad things at some point, in this life (unless we are totally enlightened beings) and certainly in all past ones. So we should be compassionate towards the wrong deeds of others and their consequences.

But getting back to the issue at hand, if you are asking why Thais tolerate the existence of the death penalty yet agonize over/shrink from administering euthanasia to pets, I think there are a lot of mental games people play to distance themselves from unpleasant realities. Most people in Thailand never even think of the death penalty (and in practice it is rarely carried out here, most such sentences get commuted). Executions are not usually covered in the press. Out of sight, out of mind. Few people would be able to bring themselves to actually administer the death penalty and as there is no real dialogue around the matter in Thailand, it doesn't figure into election choices.

I'd also like to think that health professionals are usually (though of course not always) more morally conscious than the average person. I have the impression a higher percentage (though still a minority) of Vets/doctors/nurses etc seriously practice Buddhism than is true of the population at large.

[dick dasterdly]

In nature that dog would be long gone,kept alive in its hour of need by human kindness,but a suffering dog is a suffering dog. I should have put a couple of my past mutts to sleep far quicker and I regret not doing so

a suffering dog is a heart breaking experiance for anyone who loves and has to grin and bare it.one who has been loyal and protective to you its not a case of will you,my feelings are you MUST.

there's not a day goes by without my boy looking at me as to say i love you too.wether its me getting old and living a life thats behond my dreams i dont know.

i have always said on here PLEASE GOD LET ME GO FIRST.

there has been a lot said about buddhism,but the past few yrs.this has been abused by the some of the highest ranks.me and the wife has seen this first hand.

i have only spoke to one vet about this [euthanasia] he didnt take long to answer when i offered a large amount of cash.

as LL1 says he will suffer the pain for the rest of his life not doing what he should have.

my boy is only 5,me i wont see 71 again,so i would surely give my life to save my boy.

MEATBOY LOVE ME LOVE MY DOG.

pass the tissue love.

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Know what you mean, but when I think about it (and I try v hard not to), my thought is let us all die at the same time.

Its awful, but I live alone and have 4 dogs - homes will probably be found for one or two of them amongst my friends, but all 4?? The Soi Dogs lady that died in the tsunami always springs to mind. When I first came here there were desperate leaflets pinned up for someone to home her dogs and I desperately wanted to - but less emotional council prevailed pointing out that it wasn't possible as I didn't even have my own house yet.

Those of us who genuinely love our dogs/pets find it nearly impossible to take the awful decision that they no longer have any pleasure in life and need to be put out of their suffering. I've been through it a few times with dogs and cats - and it was them taking no pleasure in anything (even me) that made me realise that it was finally time to give them a painless way out.

Awful subject, and I'm so lucky that my vet recognises when a dog is suffering badly with no hope, and will come to my house when the time has finally come.

Edited April 8, 2016 by dick dasterdly